Wednesday 27th January 2016

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 4:46 pm

Flood victims face council tax increases to pay for defences

HOMEOWNERS living in flood-hit areas could be forced to pay higher council tax adding insult to injury to thousands of homes devastated this winter by rising waters.

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/person ... r-defences

This won't go down well...

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 4:47 pm

Patrick Butler
"Government exempts kinship carers from controversial two-child tax credit limits"

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 4:50 pm

Debate soon on "the removal of peverse incentive to becoming not terminally ill enough terminally ill" clause in the Lords.

Post by **refitman** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 5:12 pm

Hello Harley. Always nice to see new faces.

Post by **refitman** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 5:14 pm

Ooh, this is cracking timing. Labour are pressing Cameron & the Tories quite well on Google, the bedroom tax and now Corbyn indicating he might publish his tax return. So what do we need to follow it up? How about:

Kinnock says it is 'difficult' to see Corbyn as electable
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... 466266930b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And

Field says Corbyn needs to be replaced before 2020
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... 7874a29350" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 5:21 pm

Cripes - even former policy adviser to the Conservatives is saying he can't understand why the government doesn't just accept that the bedroom tax impact on some people is deeply unfair - that these judgements apply to specific and quite limited groups - and just exempt them because the political fall out for something that represents a small amount of money and relatively small group of people isn't worth it.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 5:22 pm

How long ago.
When were Field and Kinnock interviewed?
When were those alleged opinions regarding the current Labour party leader jotted down?
How long ago were those stories written.

Good-evening, everyone.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 5:22 pm

Meanwhile someone with a deal more class than Kinnock and Field has contributed something useful to the debate ...

Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 17m17 minutes ago
Ed Miliband: my theme was right, but more has to be done to persuade the middle class that inequality matters. http://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n03/ed-miliban ... ty-problem" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 5:23 pm

Welcome, Harley.
Do you have any chocolate?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 5:26 pm

Labour’s economic rock stars will expose the Tories as a one-hit wonder
Anne Perkins
Anne Perkins

I enjoyed this article. Let's hope Anne Perkins is right.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... es-piketty

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 5:31 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Cripes - even former policy adviser to the Conservatives is saying he can't understand why the government doesn't just accept that the bedroom tax impact on some people is deeply unfair - that these judgements apply to specific and quite limited groups - and just exempt them because the political fall out for something that represents a small amount of money and relatively small group of people isn't worth it.

It sets a great big glaring precedent
Tories U-turn a lot but figure some things too dangerous to alter
Doing so destabilises their fragile 'mandate'

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 5:44 pm

Cue the piccolos. But it is the inexorable drums they herald that I worry about.

Welcome Harley. Coffee, hot chocolate, tea? A newspaper of your choice?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 6:11 pm

Just heard Cameron's rubbish on Radio 4.

It doesn't even make sense -''They met with the Argentinians, they gave them the Falkland Islands''
What ??

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 6:13 pm

Welcome to the 'Corbynista echo chamber' Harley. [As some grumpy folk have called it]

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 6:13 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Meanwhile someone with a deal more class than Kinnock and Field has contributed something useful to the debate ...
Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 17m17 minutes ago
Ed Miliband: my theme was right, but more has to be done to persuade the middle class that inequality matters. http://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n03/ed-miliban ... ty-problem" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

I miss the intellectual thinking Ed brought to politics, and also his personal humility. What a great analysis of where we are. In truth I do not think he is that far from Corbyn. or Corbyn from him. They just come at the same things from different points. I wonder how many more people would like to see him take a greater role again. To say as he does here that Labour needs to regain a confidence in what it knows is right, rather than playing the tory game. I wish that he could be Labours future and that Corbyn would work towards that, he is head and shoulders above all the others who are queuing up to step into the Labour leader role. But I think perhaps that is it, he and Corbyn somehow have a conviction that the others lack.

As an aside to this I noticed that Reeves with her usual foot in gob has also been weighing in recently. I used to give her the benefit of the doubt, but I won't again, she should have learned from her mistakes, but seems incapable. And these are the people we are supposed to be agreeing with. I'll take Ed instead, more honour in his little finger and all that kind of thing that I look for as an antidote to the madness.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 6:19 pm

citizenJA wrote:Welcome, Harley.
Do you have any chocolate?

As long as it isn't chocolate with rosemary in it.
Had some at Christmas, it was disgusting. Yuk.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 6:23 pm

Lords votes 283-198 against govt attempt to cut £30 pw from ESA wrag group #WelfareBill

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 6:23 pm

Ed Miliband still seems to have the power to disquiet in that there hasn't really been any let-up in the portrayal of him as a weirdo (shorthand). I do wonder why that should be, if he's such a has-been non-threat. Why the need to keep up the negativity?

Well, I can dream, can't I?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 6:24 pm

Not surprised at result,surprised at number of utter #####

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 6:31 pm

yahyah wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Welcome, Harley.
Do you have any chocolate?
As long as it isn't chocolate with rosemary in it.
Had some at Christmas, it was disgusting. Yuk.

Sounds vile. Now, of course, we must all hope that Harley isn't the mastermind behind it . . . .

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 6:37 pm

yahyah wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Welcome, Harley.
Do you have any chocolate?
As long as it isn't chocolate with rosemary in it.
Had some at Christmas, it was disgusting. Yuk.

I apologise asking a new voice for rations after a welcome, customarily, it's the other way 'round. Name your choice of sweet and I'll do my best to provide you with it.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 6:43 pm

Look what you're missing ladies, he's all Jerry's now

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 6:49 pm

yahyah - that was worthy of our Toby (who I hope is doing OK)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 6:57 pm

Ask for chocolate and get an image of Murdoch - this isn't my day

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 7:03 pm

ephemerid wrote:yahyah - that was worthy of our Toby (who I hope is doing OK)

For some reason I suddenly can't download photos. It freezes my computer. Can't be assed to try to sort it out at present.

Poor Toby. He'll be hating being away for such a long time. Hope they're getting him sorted...

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 7:05 pm

yahyah wrote:

Look what you're missing ladies, he's all Jerry's now

I read a Tweet that said he's promoted Mensch.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 7:09 pm

And is Jess Phillips going to be BBCs renta-gob, good for ill thought out comments about Corbyn? She's on the panel.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 7:29 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
ephemerid wrote:yahyah - that was worthy of our Toby (who I hope is doing OK)
For some reason I suddenly can't download photos. It freezes my computer...

Behave, ohso! Hasn't anyone told you some ISPs now provide porn filters that you have to opt out of.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 7:34 pm

ohsocynical wrote:And is Jess Phillips going to be BBCs renta-gob, good for ill thought out comments about Corbyn? She's on the panel.

I've just checked and see you're referring to QT, ohso. I've only watched occasionally of late and especially gave Kelvin MacKenzie a wide berth. I can't say I miss it although I do obm's appraisals of the panels. Having said that I haven't checked his blog for some time either so perhaps I have been missing something after all. Worth a check.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 8:24 pm

Wednesday, 27 January 2016 - House of Commons - Prime Minister's Questions

Jeremy Corbyn (Opposition Labour Leader - Islington North):
"It was under a Labour Government that the inquiries into Google were begun. In addition, as a percentage
of GDP, corporation tax receipts are lower under this Government than under previous Governments.

I have a question here from a gentleman called Jeff. [Interruption.] You might well laugh, but Jeff speaks
for millions of people when he says to me:

'Can you ask the Prime Minister…if as a working man of over 30 years whether there is a scheme
which I can join that pays the same rate of tax as Google and other large…corporations?'

What does the Prime Minister say to Jeff?"

The Prime Minister (David Cameron - Tory MP - Whitney):
"What I say to Jeff is that his taxes are coming down under this Government, and Google’s taxes are going up under
this Government. Something the right hon. Gentleman said in his last question was factually inaccurate. He said that
corporation tax receipts have gone down. They have actually gone up by 20% under this Government because we
have a strong economy, with businesses making money, employing people, investing in our country and paying
taxes into the Exchequer.

If, like me, the right hon. Gentleman is genuinely angry about what happened to Google under Labour, there are a
few people he could call. Maybe he should start by calling Tony Blair. You can get him at J. P. Morgan. Call Gordon
Brown. Apparently, you can get him at a Californian bond dealer called Pimco. He could call Alistair Darling. I think
he’s at Morgan Stanley, but it’s hard to keep up. Those are the people to blame for Google not paying its taxes.
We are the ones who got it to pay."

Jeremy Corbyn:
"The problem is that the Prime Minister is the Prime Minister, and is responsible for the Government and therefore
responsible for tax collection.

Google made profits of £6 billion in the UK between 2005 and 2015 and is paying £130 million in tax for the whole
of that decade.

Millions of people this week are filling in their tax returns to get them in by the 31st. They have to send the form
back. They do not get the option of 25 meetings with 17 Ministers to decide what their rate of tax is. Many people
going to their HMRC offices or returning their forms online this week will say this: why is there one rule for big
multinational companies and another for ordinary small businesses and self-employed workers?"

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... /112/#c112" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 8:28 pm

The Welsh Assembly has just voted to block David Cameron’s trade union bill in Wales, with Assembly members saying it would undermine public services, the economy and the “constructive social partnership” between workers and employers in Wales. But instead of heeding the Welsh Assembly’s decision, David Cameron is ignoring it. Now a constitutional crisis looks set to erupt as the two governments do battle in the Supreme Court.

http://www.thecanary.co/2016/01/27/wale ... nt-happen/

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 8:29 pm

Paul Rutherford
‏@PaulRutherford8
.@OwenSmith_MP Just got your message. Thanks a lot for that.
Who was the tory on @Channel4News with you? Sue screamed at him...

Owen Smith ‏@OwenSmith_MP 52m52 minutes ago
Owen Smith Retweeted Paul Rutherford
Thanks Paul. I meant what I said: you deserve tribute for the fight you have led! The Tory wasn't IDS. He's AWOL

I think the Tories are showing a lot more people their very nasty side by continuing this fight against vulnerable people. The Tory on Channel 4 news was a prime example - someone called Chris Phelp I believe.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 8:36 pm

Not politics but this was 43 years ago today. I remember watching the whole match live - quite brilliant.

[youtube]x1YV5xMWlK8[/youtube]

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 8:52 pm

Dave lied.

VAT receipts - £97.2 billion
Corporation tax - £32.6 billion

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/psa/publi ... g-position" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tory government reduced corporation taxes.

2008 30%
2009 28%
2010 28%
2011 26%
2012 24%
2013 23%
2014 21%
2015 20%

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united- ... e-tax-rate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 8:54 pm

Cameron was on about what exactly telling Corbyn to call Blair, Darling and Brown?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 8:59 pm

I almost can't believe it, reading today's Hansard

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 9:00 pm

citizenJA wrote:Cameron was on about what exactly telling Corbyn to call Blair, Darling and Brown?

He was accusing them of working in banking.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 9:05 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Cameron was on about what exactly telling Corbyn to call Blair, Darling and Brown?
He was accusing them of working in banking.

To what purpose?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 9:16 pm

Sorry, just seen that it was in full further up.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 9:22 pm

Richard Calhoun
‏@richardcalhoun
Ex-nationalist leader says might back 'Brexit' to boost Scottish independence hopes http://reut.rs/23sSFcU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; via @ReutersUK

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 9:35 pm

I've just noticed that Cameron didn't answer the point about corporation tax correctly - Corbyn said "as percentage of GDP" - Cameron changed it to "receipts have gone up 20%" which is not the same things at ll - talking at cross-purposes again.

Here's the lowdown on what's happened to CT receipts as forecast in every budget - the black squares are what the actual receipts were.

So, yes they've risen in value terms by nearly 20% but 2009/10 was the low-point due to the impact of the recession - in 2015/16 they're not back up to 2008/9.

What's more - you can see what's happened because the rate has been reduced. This year we're forecast to come in at nearly £17bn less than what was in Osborne's original budget.

The FT said at the time that it was stupid as corps didn't actually need the cash - and they were right.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 9:41 pm

: National Housing Federation Waking Up.jpg (36.88 KiB) Viewed 6269 times

Have they really only just woken up to what is happening? They've been pretty complicit in facilitating some of the Tories' worst social housing policies.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 10:04 pm

citizenJA wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Cameron was on about what exactly telling Corbyn to call Blair, Darling and Brown?
He was accusing them of working in banking.
To what purpose?

It was part of Cameron's answer to Corbyn's question about taxes. Labour's fault blah, blah, why didn't they collect the taxes from Google when they were in power, etc., blah, blah blah.

Accusations and, going off on a tangent as he usually does when being asked anything.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 10:15 pm

Working Full Time And Think You’re Safe From The Jobcentre? Not If The DWP Get Their Way.

https://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2016/0 ... their-way/

Dear Lord, they're going to hound us to death.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 10:43 pm

"Financial Times, 23 January 2016:
'Mr Osborne, who is at the World Economic Forum in Davos, tweeted that the Google tax bill is
“a victory for the action we’ve taken. I introduced Diverted Profits Tax. We now expect to see other
firms pay their share”.'

Guardian, 27 January 2016:
'Downing Street said Cameron and Osborne had nothing to do with the agreement struck by
HM Revenue & Customs last week to force Google to hand over £130m in underpaid taxes.'"

http://discussion.theguardian.com/comme ... k/67593138" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 10:45 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Working Full Time And Think You’re Safe From The Jobcentre? Not If The DWP Get Their Way.

https://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2016/0 ... their-way/
Dear Lord, they're going to hound us to death.

How the hell else will they keep leveraged private care homes staffed 24/7 and the bonuses flowing upward, Ohso?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 10:51 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:He was accusing them of working in banking.
To what purpose?
It was part of Cameron's answer to Corbyn's question about taxes. Labour's fault blah, blah, why didn't they collect the taxes from Google when they were in power, etc., blah, blah blah.

Accusations and, going off on a tangent as he usually does when being asked anything.

Trolls below the line have more dignity than that. Labour began the Google tax investigation. Dave simply lies.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 10:55 pm

What's more - you can see what's happened because the rate has been reduced. This year we're forecast to come in at nearly £17bn less than what was in Osborne's original budget.

It's that, but also the poor growth figures since 2010.

Hobiejoe · Post by **Hobiejoe** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 1:13 am

Snuck out after midnight, as per usual, the mendacious bastards...

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016 ... come-in-uk

And I imagine that the actual care given to actual children will, once the media move on to the next story, be the square root of fuck all.