It'll become untenable, voting for Article 50adam wrote:IndepindieThe boss of Nissan Carlos Ghosn has admitted that the car giant's UK investments will be "re-evaluated" if Theresa May delivers a bad Brexit deal, despite last October's high-profile commitment by the firm to build its next Qashqai and X-Trail model at its Sunderland plant.
Friday 20th January 2017
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Re: Friday 20th January 2017
Re: Friday 20th January 2017
Do you think the conservative majority in parliament will care?citizenJA wrote:It'll become untenable, voting for Article 50adam wrote:IndepindieThe boss of Nissan Carlos Ghosn has admitted that the car giant's UK investments will be "re-evaluated" if Theresa May delivers a bad Brexit deal, despite last October's high-profile commitment by the firm to build its next Qashqai and X-Trail model at its Sunderland plant.
I still believe in a town called Hope
- AngryAsWell
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
IF Labour got its act together with the LibDems, SNP, Green and the handful or more of tory remainers there would be no majorityadam wrote:Do you think the conservative majority in parliament will care?citizenJA wrote:It'll become untenable, voting for Article 50adam wrote: Indepindie
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
Has Jez appeared yet?adam wrote:IndepindieThe boss of Nissan Carlos Ghosn has admitted that the car giant's UK investments will be "re-evaluated" if Theresa May delivers a bad Brexit deal, despite last October's high-profile commitment by the firm to build its next Qashqai and X-Trail model at its Sunderland plant.
He'll be wanting to give them more subsidies.
Re: Friday 20th January 2017
(cJA bold)adam wrote:Do you think the conservative majority in parliament will care?citizenJA wrote:It'll become untenable, voting for Article 50adam wrote:Indepindie
Maybe. Taking the UK out of the single market isn't in the Tory manifesto. The Lords can defeat it.
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
Probably not, apart from Soubry, Clarke, maybe Morgan, Osborne, Grieve and Neil Carmichael. You have to add Kipper-Labour (Hoey etc) to those who'd vote for it. The Lexiters surely can't vote for Theresa May tax haven.adam wrote:Do you think the conservative majority in parliament will care?citizenJA wrote:It'll become untenable, voting for Article 50adam wrote: Indepindie
Make it a close run thing if you can't win. Make the public remember when it goes tits up that it was Tory Brexit.
Last edited by Tubby Isaacs on Fri 20 Jan, 2017 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Friday 20th January 2017
Peter Hain has stated today he'll not vote for Article 50
Re: Friday 20th January 2017
(cJA bold)Tubby Isaacs wrote:Probably not, apart from Soubry, Clarke, maybe Morgan, Osborne, Grieve and Neil Carmichael. You have to add Kipper-Labour (Hoey etc) to those who'd vote for it. The Lexiters surely can't vote for Theresa May tax haven.adam wrote:Do you think the conservative majority in parliament will care?citizenJA wrote: It'll become untenable, voting for Article 50
Make it a close run thing if you can't win. Make the public remember when it goes tits up that it was Tory Brexit.
Making voting for Article 50 less tenable. Break the impetus for it. Most MPs in the House aren't in favour of 'Brexit'.
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
From my friend, a very high flying consultant.
NHS is as bad as in 1997.
NHS is as bad as in 1997.
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-s ... ppointment" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
UK Statistics Authority chair appointment
Sir David Norgrove has been confirmed as the government’s preferred candidate for Chair of the UK Statistics Authority.
UK Statistics Authority chair appointment
Sir David Norgrove has been confirmed as the government’s preferred candidate for Chair of the UK Statistics Authority.
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... hild-limit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Consultation outcome
Universal Credit and Child Tax Credit: exceptions to the 2-child limit
Consultation outcome
Universal Credit and Child Tax Credit: exceptions to the 2-child limit
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... n-act-2016" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Guidance
Political Funds: guidance on the provisions in the Trade Union Act 2016
Guidance
Political Funds: guidance on the provisions in the Trade Union Act 2016
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
HindleA wrote:https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... hild-limit
Consultation outcome
Universal Credit and Child Tax Credit: exceptions to the 2-child limit
Incredible this hasn't been dropped yet.
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... siest-week" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fifty-two NHS hospitals sent patients elsewhere in busiest week yet
Sixty-eight hospital trusts declared an alert between 8 and 15 January, and bed occupancy rate across England was 95.8%
Fifty-two NHS hospitals sent patients elsewhere in busiest week yet
Sixty-eight hospital trusts declared an alert between 8 and 15 January, and bed occupancy rate across England was 95.8%
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
Yeah the problem here is there are too few Labour voters in total.Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Brexit is now basically the Tory Government.
The opportunity is to bring some of those Tory remainers over along with some don't knows. I wonder how the don't knows split on Brexit.
Fingers firmly crossed :-s
Re: Friday 20th January 2017
I'm happy to deny it, I think Smith would have been way, way out of his depth.pk1 wrote: You surely can't deny though that if he had been elected leader, Labour wouldn't be in this dizzying mess they currently are ?!
And if Labour members had elected one of the others instead of Corbyn in the first place, Labour would be happy to support May in 'controlling immigration', ie no change from where we are now.
Labour have been screwed since 24 June no matter who the leader is.
The only way the dizzying mess could have been avoided was if Labour had won the GE2015.
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
My brother, who works on the lines at Nissan, says the factory gossip is that Nissan are quite happy to begin production of these models in Sunderland because they think petrol & diesel cars are living on borrowed time. They make most of the batteries in Europe (all Nissan, all Renault, and some others), so that's their future. They'll probably take a huge bribe to start Qashqai & X-Trail production in the UK, while not really caring whether they last for long.adam wrote:IndepindieThe boss of Nissan Carlos Ghosn has admitted that the car giant's UK investments will be "re-evaluated" if Theresa May delivers a bad Brexit deal, despite last October's high-profile commitment by the firm to build its next Qashqai and X-Trail model at its Sunderland plant.
Re: Friday 20th January 2017
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/g ... 4xmznqm2t9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
He's a complete shit.
George Osborne has landed a City job worth at least £200,000 a year, his office have confirmed.
The former Chancellor won’t be stepping down as an MP, despite his new role as an adviser to Blackrock Investments, the world’s biggest asset manager.
He's a complete shit.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Friday 20th January 2017
I'd like to see it back in the headlines.Tubby Isaacs wrote:From my friend, a very high flying consultant.
NHS is as bad as in 1997.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
Re: Friday 20th January 2017
There's something we can all agree on.Willow904 wrote:http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/g ... 4xmznqm2t9
George Osborne has landed a City job worth at least £200,000 a year, his office have confirmed.
The former Chancellor won’t be stepping down as an MP, despite his new role as an adviser to Blackrock Investments, the world’s biggest asset manager.
He's a complete shit.
And if the likes of Blackrock abandon the City of London before or after brexit, good riddance. How clever can they be, if they think paying that scum is value for money? Utterly corrupt.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
Re: Friday 20th January 2017
Any policy that needs an exception for women who've been raped is a very very bad policy and it's beyond belief that they're going ahead with it.Tubby Isaacs wrote:HindleA wrote:https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... hild-limit
Consultation outcome
Universal Credit and Child Tax Credit: exceptions to the 2-child limit
Incredible this hasn't been dropped yet.
Utterly disgusting.Evidence from this
professional third party, demonstrating that the claimant’s circumstances are
consistent with those of a person who has had intercourse without consenting to it
(at a time when the conception of her third or subsequent child might have
resulted), will normally be used to determine eligibility for the exception.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
Oh, and Evening folks,
My MP was, and I presume still is, a Remain supporter. He's also the Labour chief whip, and at the moment, seems likely to be asked to whip MPs to support a decision almost none of them really agree with, along with 70%+ of the members. The ones who are going all Burnham are cacking themselves about what their constituents think about immigration, even though loads of polling shows that many Brexit voters have changed their mind (Sunderland, for example, is now 70% remain).
We have a PM going full tilt to promote a process she opposed, an opposition leader supporting a position at odds with his MPs and members, and virtual unanimity from economists and politicians that we are heading for catastrophe.
We are fucked.
I just listened to Trumps inauguration speech. Everything is fucked.
My MP was, and I presume still is, a Remain supporter. He's also the Labour chief whip, and at the moment, seems likely to be asked to whip MPs to support a decision almost none of them really agree with, along with 70%+ of the members. The ones who are going all Burnham are cacking themselves about what their constituents think about immigration, even though loads of polling shows that many Brexit voters have changed their mind (Sunderland, for example, is now 70% remain).
We have a PM going full tilt to promote a process she opposed, an opposition leader supporting a position at odds with his MPs and members, and virtual unanimity from economists and politicians that we are heading for catastrophe.
We are fucked.
I just listened to Trumps inauguration speech. Everything is fucked.
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
"Buy American, hire American"
Brexit loons want to negotiate with that lot, we are indeed fucked.
Brexit loons want to negotiate with that lot, we are indeed fucked.
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
I understand these feelings 55, but do hold on to the fact that voting to trigger A50 isn't the same as wanting to leave the EU.55DegreesNorth wrote:Oh, and Evening folks,
My MP was, and I presume still is, a Remain supporter. He's also the Labour chief whip, and at the moment, seems likely to be asked to whip MPs to support a decision almost none of them really agree with, along with 70%+ of the members. The ones who are going all Burnham are cacking themselves about what their constituents think about immigration, even though loads of polling shows that many Brexit voters have changed their mind (Sunderland, for example, is now 70% remain).
We have a PM going full tilt to promote a process she opposed, an opposition leader supporting a position at odds with his MPs and members, and virtual unanimity from economists and politicians that we are heading for catastrophe.
We are fucked.
I just listened to Trumps inauguration speech. Everything is fucked.
I know it's all topsy turvy, but sometimes you have to let people follow their noses for a while. The parable of the prodigal son if you like.
Imagine how things will change round you if Nissan, AS IS HIGHLY LIKELY, do pull out of the UK.
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
UK judges change court rules on child contact for violent fathers
Reforms aim to end presumption that a father must have contact with a child when there is evidence of domestic abuse
UK judges change court rules on child contact for violent fathers
Reforms aim to end presumption that a father must have contact with a child when there is evidence of domestic abuse
Re: Friday 20th January 2017
@55DegreesNorth
I missed it (Donald Trump's speech). So I tuned into the BBC only to hear a load of stupid giggling and tittering about future White House Christmas parties on account of Donald Trump being a non-drinker of alcohol. Incisive and informative stuff.
Edited to add an "r"
I missed it (Donald Trump's speech). So I tuned into the BBC only to hear a load of stupid giggling and tittering about future White House Christmas parties on account of Donald Trump being a non-drinker of alcohol. Incisive and informative stuff.
Edited to add an "r"
Last edited by PorFavor on Fri 20 Jan, 2017 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... vegetables" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Losing the plot: courgette crisis spreads to other vegetables
Snow across Spanish farming areas mean the growing shortages in tomatoes, salad leaves, peppers and celery - and higher prices - may last into spring
Losing the plot: courgette crisis spreads to other vegetables
Snow across Spanish farming areas mean the growing shortages in tomatoes, salad leaves, peppers and celery - and higher prices - may last into spring
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
Thank heavens for the perfectly lovely winter greens I've been getting in my veg box the last couple of weeks. I just stir fried some purple sprouting with sesame and soy sauce.HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... vegetables
Losing the plot: courgette crisis spreads to other vegetables
Snow across Spanish farming areas mean the growing shortages in tomatoes, salad leaves, peppers and celery - and higher prices - may last into spring
Yum
Chard last week, spinach and kale galore....
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
Vote Greens.
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
Mmm. That sounds nice.
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
Cavolo Nero for PM. The Kippers would hate a foreigner.HindleA wrote:Vote Greens.
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
A perfect point in the proceedings to pop out for a pint
- RogerOThornhill
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
Nero's modern equivalent has just become POTUS...yahyah wrote:Cavolo Nero for PM. The Kippers would hate a foreigner.HindleA wrote:Vote Greens.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
Just wanted to come on and offer some support to Paul
The referendum was a disaster from beginning to end - with the vast, vast majority of the blame falling on the shoulders of Cameron, although it is difficult to find his name mentioned in any of the posts above....he really has got away with it hasn't he when a forum of the so-called left (although I am not so sure anymore) looks to cast blame elsewhere
Once the result was in then there was no choice but to invoke A50 - the alternative is to ignore the referendum, and no matter whatever you think that is really not a realistic prospect in my view. Thinking the result was a mistake does not automatically mean that it does not sit well in ignoring it
The aim should be to throw shit at the Tories during the debate and explain why the decision was made, to look for opportunities to reverse the decision once the true consequences have sunk into the brains of the electorate and make sure the truly reprehensible Tories get the blame
As was said above whoever was leader of Labour would have been in an impossible position.....perhaps the undermining of Miliband by members of his own partywas not such a great idea was it? Although lessons do not seem to have been learnt either
The referendum was a disaster from beginning to end - with the vast, vast majority of the blame falling on the shoulders of Cameron, although it is difficult to find his name mentioned in any of the posts above....he really has got away with it hasn't he when a forum of the so-called left (although I am not so sure anymore) looks to cast blame elsewhere
Once the result was in then there was no choice but to invoke A50 - the alternative is to ignore the referendum, and no matter whatever you think that is really not a realistic prospect in my view. Thinking the result was a mistake does not automatically mean that it does not sit well in ignoring it
The aim should be to throw shit at the Tories during the debate and explain why the decision was made, to look for opportunities to reverse the decision once the true consequences have sunk into the brains of the electorate and make sure the truly reprehensible Tories get the blame
As was said above whoever was leader of Labour would have been in an impossible position.....perhaps the undermining of Miliband by members of his own partywas not such a great idea was it? Although lessons do not seem to have been learnt either
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/northern_ireland" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Historical Institutional Abuse Inquiry: 'Widespread abuse' in children's homes
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25637486" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Historical Institutional Abuse Inquiry: 'Widespread abuse' in children's homes
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25637486" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
Looks like you chose the perfect time Paul. Relax and enjoy.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:A perfect point in the proceedings to pop out for a pint
Night all and thanks again to OneButton in particular.
Re: Friday 20th January 2017
Goodnight, yahyah!yahyah wrote:Looks like you chose the perfect time Paul. Relax and enjoy.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:A perfect point in the proceedings to pop out for a pint
Night all and thanks again to OneButton in particular.
Re: Friday 20th January 2017
Donald Trump has already ditched the Climate Action Plan (Sky News tickertape thingy).
- RogerOThornhill
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
Worth reading the embedded tweets within...
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
Ukrainians are probably not very hopeful either.letsskiptotheleft wrote:"Buy American, hire American"
Brexit loons want to negotiate with that lot, we are indeed fucked.
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
Osborne's status could be transformed in a couple of years, as the business facing pro-Brexit oracle. Blackrock could get a bit of that rub off on them.gilsey wrote:There's something we can all agree on.Willow904 wrote:http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/g ... 4xmznqm2t9
George Osborne has landed a City job worth at least £200,000 a year, his office have confirmed.
The former Chancellor won’t be stepping down as an MP, despite his new role as an adviser to Blackrock Investments, the world’s biggest asset manager.
He's a complete shit.
And if the likes of Blackrock abandon the City of London before or after brexit, good riddance. How clever can they be, if they think paying that scum is value for money? Utterly corrupt.
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
How can we even be triggering Article 50 without knowing what Nissan are likely to get? And by extension anybody else who fancies shaking down the government?
No answer from the government? You stick in a FOIA.
The reasons are stacking up to vote against Article 50. The more fuss made, the more the public gets to notice the issues.
No answer from the government? You stick in a FOIA.
The reasons are stacking up to vote against Article 50. The more fuss made, the more the public gets to notice the issues.
Re: Friday 20th January 2017
Exactly.Tubby Isaacs wrote:How can we even be triggering Article 50 without knowing what Nissan are likely to get? And by extension anybody else who fancies shaking down the government?
No answer from the government? You stick in a FOIA.
The reasons are stacking up to vote against Article 50. The more fuss made, the more the public gets to notice the issues.
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
Tubby Isaacs wrote:How can we even be triggering Article 50 without knowing what Nissan are likely to get? And by extension anybody else who fancies shaking down the government?
No answer from the government? You stick in a FOIA.
The reasons are stacking up to vote against Article 50. The more fuss made, the more the public gets to notice the issues.
Ask the Tories - they are the ones who will be doing the triggering
Voting en masse against will either be an empty gesture which will go against the referendum (and you cannot forget that there was a referendum with a clear question - people voted to Leave the EU, not to Remain.....angry about it but not sure what the value is in ignoring it) or it will actually prevent the triggering and the question will be....what next?
Do you have anything to say the public supports ignoring the referendum result?
Can you also point to a Labour Party statement or a direct quote from Corbyn saying there will be a 3 line whip?
Re: Friday 20th January 2017
The answer to "what next?" is that Theresa May would then have to negotiate with parliament to get article 50 through, she would have to bow to certain conditions to win majority support, one of which may be a referendum on the exit deal. May could be portrayed as the one blocking Brexit by refusing to allow the public their rightful say on the deal.howsillyofme1 wrote:Tubby Isaacs wrote:How can we even be triggering Article 50 without knowing what Nissan are likely to get? And by extension anybody else who fancies shaking down the government?
No answer from the government? You stick in a FOIA.
The reasons are stacking up to vote against Article 50. The more fuss made, the more the public gets to notice the issues.
Ask the Tories - they are the ones who will be doing the triggering
Voting en masse against will either be an empty gesture which will go against the referendum (and you cannot forget that there was a referendum with a clear question - people voted to Leave the EU, not to Remain.....angry about it but not sure what the value is in ignoring it) or it will actually prevent the triggering and the question will be....what next?
Do you have anything to say the public supports ignoring the referendum result?
Can you also point to a Labour Party statement or a direct quote from Corbyn saying there will be a 3 line whip?
Leave voters don't need Labour to champion them, they have a majority government on their side eager to give them what they want and leave voters will undoubtedly reward the Tories with their vote at the next election. It is quite possible that there are very few leave voters left that Labour can now win by seeming to take their part at such a late stage, having refused to offer a referendum in 2015 and campaigned to remain in 2016. On the other hand Labour have an awful lot of remain voters they risk losing, however, by seemingly making no attempt to stand up to a Tory hard Brexit.
For me, from the moment leave won, remaining in the single market became the least worst option. And yet Jeremy Corbyn can't even bring himself to say the words "membership of the single market", let alone show any signs of fighting for it. If you're telling me this is how Labour should be then it's no longer the pro-EU, socially democratic party I joined. I make no predictions or claims of being able to see the future. This new Labour party could prove to be very successful. I'm just not sure it is a party that I want to belong to any more.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
Labour shadow minister is ‘leaning towards’ voting against Article 50 in defiance of Jeremy Corbyn
Tulip Siddiq tells The Independent she must consider how decisively her constituents backed remain
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 37006.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Tulip Siddiq tells The Independent she must consider how decisively her constituents backed remain
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 37006.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
- tinyclanger2
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
I don't feel Labour are speaking for me much. TBHKeir Starmer: 'Lib Dem leader fanning flames of division over Brexit'
Shadow Brexit secretary says Tim Farron is widening split between leave and remain voters by speaking only for one side
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/ja ... ver-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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- tinyclanger2
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Re: Friday 20th January 2017
Good to "see" some old "faces" here. Just a pity the circumstances are so utterly dire.
Everything changes - except that the Tories hate the British people.
Everything changes - except that the Tories hate the British people.
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'