Monday 23rd January 2017

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 4:04 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Good-afternoon, everyone.
Good to see you CJA, hope all is well with you

xx
cJA

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 4:26 pm

An introduction to Polanyi.

https://economicsociology.org/2017/01/2 ... t-economy/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Karl Polanyi was deeply concerned by the essence of Fascism and focused on the institutional structure from which Fascism starts its march. He devoted the final parts of his magnum opus The Great Transformation specifically to this crucial topic and elaborated a bright analysis of the dark rise of Fascism between the two world wars.
The following passages I selected from this insightful classic book and assembled them as a short article. I urge you to delve into this piece (and then to read the full original chapters) and to mull over the substance of fascist situations and moves, as well as their linkage to free market and economy of self-interest, which generate anti-individualistic and repressing endeavors directed to change not only the political sphere and societal fabrics, but human consciousness itself.

Very interesting things to say about the free market and liberalism.

Planning and control are being attacked as a denial of freedom. Free enterprise and private ownership are declared to be essentials of freedom. No society built on other foundations is said to deserve to be called free. The freedom that regulation creates is denounced as unfreedom; the justice, liberty and welfare it offers are decried as a camouflage of slavery. (256)
With the liberal the idea of freedom thus degenerates into a mere advocacy of free enterprise—which is today reduced to a fiction by the hard reality of giant trusts and princely monopolies. This means the fullness of freedom for those whose income, leisure and security need no enhancing, and a mere pittance of liberty for the people,

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 4:50 pm

M.Rowson's latest As I Please column

https://martinrowson.wordpress.com/2017 ... l-madness/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 4:54 pm

Thanks for that link gilsey.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 4:57 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Brexit could cut wages by 30% over next two decades, says private equity boss Guy Hands
Leaving the European Union will be bad for most people but good for his own multi-billion pound fund, he says

Guy Hands, chairman of Terra Firma, one of Europe's largest private equity groups, warned that the country will have to get rid of much of its social safety net and may see a 30 per cent decline in wages in real terms in the next 20 years to enable it to compete outside of Europe.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 40986.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

All going to the troy plan then. They've just got there much quicker than I ever thought they would, via Brexit

Guy Hands may have a skin in the game. I'd have filed him under "Bring it on!"

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 5:11 pm

Can't help wondering if Cameron was cleverer than we thought.
He must be smiling at the thought of the Tory dream of slashed public services and lower wages as a result of Brexit, and Labour in a near-terminal mess over the process

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 5:41 pm

gilsey wrote:An introduction to Polanyi.

https://economicsociology.org/2017/01/2 ... t-economy/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Karl Polanyi was deeply concerned by the essence of Fascism and focused on the institutional structure from which Fascism starts its march. He devoted the final parts of his magnum opus The Great Transformation specifically to this crucial topic and elaborated a bright analysis of the dark rise of Fascism between the two world wars.
The following passages I selected from this insightful classic book and assembled them as a short article. I urge you to delve into this piece (and then to read the full original chapters) and to mull over the substance of fascist situations and moves, as well as their linkage to free market and economy of self-interest, which generate anti-individualistic and repressing endeavors directed to change not only the political sphere and societal fabrics, but human consciousness itself.
Very interesting things to say about the free market and liberalism.
Planning and control are being attacked as a denial of freedom. Free enterprise and private ownership are declared to be essentials of freedom. No society built on other foundations is said to deserve to be called free. The freedom that regulation creates is denounced as unfreedom; the justice, liberty and welfare it offers are decried as a camouflage of slavery. (256)
With the liberal the idea of freedom thus degenerates into a mere advocacy of free enterprise—which is today reduced to a fiction by the hard reality of giant trusts and princely monopolies. This means the fullness of freedom for those whose income, leisure and security need no enhancing, and a mere pittance of liberty for the people,

Wait till Trump gets going on "the wrong sort of free enterprise".

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 5:44 pm

yahyah wrote:Can't help wondering if Cameron was cleverer than we thought.
He must be smiling at the thought of the Tory dream of slashed public services and lower wages as a result of Brexit, and Labour in a near-terminal mess over the process

When even Osborne was warning him against calling the referendum, you do have to wonder about his motives. I thought from the start he really wanted us out of the EU (he campaigned for the tory leadership as a euro-sceptic) and maybe - to him - not being PM was a price worth paying for a long held goal.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 5:53 pm

There's just been an interesting update on Sparrow's blog about ICM findings suggesting ''MPs having a final say on Brexit could save Labour 22 seats''.

I can't cut and paste it here with Windows10. It does suggest the Lib Dems could benefit according to how Labour play things.

edited to correct - 22 not 26 seats.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 5:55 pm

Here you go.

acking MPs having final say on Brexit could save Labour 22 seats, poll suggests

ICM has also been conducting polling for Represent Us, a group campaigning for parliament to have the final say on whether or not the UK leaves the EU once the final Brexit deal is known.

The Represent Us poll focused on a sample of 1,343 voters in Labour seats (not just Labour supporters - a representative sample of all voters in those seats) and it asked how people would vote if both Labour and the Lib Dems called for parliament to have the final say on Brexit, while the Tories and Ukip promised to implement it anyway. Another question then asked how people would vote if Labour said it would implement Brexit anyway, like the Tories and Ukip, and only the Lib Dems said they would give parliament the final say.

According to Represent Us, which took the poll findings, compared them to current voting intentions, and then calculated what impact this would have on seats.

Here is an extract from the Represent Us news release.

Last week Theresa May said parliament would have a vote on the EU exit terms – but the choice would be between accepting the terms and leaving on WTO terms. An ICM poll conducted this weekend across Labour constituencies shows that the party would be 22 seats better off in a 2017 election if it supported parliament also having the option of the UK remaining within the EU.

If Labour opposes the government and calls for parliament to have a choice between accepting the deal and remaining in the EU, it would end up with 162 seats (compared to the 175 currently projected). However, if it just supports the government it would end up with 140 seats (both scenarios assume the Lib Dems call for parliamentary choice). In the first scenario Labour’s share of the vote falls 3% from the currently projected share of 44% in Labour constituencies to 41%; but if it supports the government its share falls 8% from 44% to 36%, with the Lib Dems gaining a similar amount.

One explanation of these figures is that Labour has already lost the support of many potential UKIP voters – but an estimated 18% of its current supporters voted Lib Dem in 2010 and this poll suggests many of them will desert Labour if it supports the government.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 5:56 pm

Ta Tubby. Maybe what some of us have warned could happen actually could happen. That's what is worrying.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 5:59 pm

But I'm sure we should ignore it, as it is only polling. Who needs 22 seats anyway ?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 6:04 pm

Last week Theresa May said parliament would have a vote on the EU exit terms – but the choice would be between accepting the terms and leaving on WTO terms.

This is quite appalling. Probably not a burning issue for a while, mind.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 6:19 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Last week Theresa May said parliament would have a vote on the EU exit terms – but the choice would be between accepting the terms and leaving on WTO terms.
This is quite appalling. Probably not a burning issue for a while, mind.

but logical: if parliament has option to stay in EU, then EU has incentive to make deal as unpalatable as possible.
(whereas, If it's just take deal or walk, then EU just needs to offer minimum to UK)
(sorry for repeating myself from weekend)

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 6:45 pm

I'm not sure.

I think the incentive to hit Britain hard is there anyway- not wanting to encourage Geert Wilders etc, picking off the City. So it's much better for Britain to be able to pull back if things go badly.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 7:04 pm

yahyah wrote:But I'm sure we should ignore it, as it is only polling. Who needs 22 seats anyway ?

I'm surprised that it's showing a net positive at this stage. Quite encouraging. I saw it as something that backbench kite flyers could go for, and the leadership introduce it later.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 7:28 pm

Paul Nuttall savaged by Piers Morgan on his statements of support for NHS privatisation

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pa ... an-9676050" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Piers Morgan is popping up all over the place at the moment, and I can't make him out...

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 7:33 pm

RIP Gorden Kaye

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 7:33 pm

Mr citizen & comrades leafleting for Labour here (Stoke on Trent Central) this weekend and in our spare time.
Nuttall.
Good god.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 7:36 pm

Apologies for not thanking everyone individually. I appreciate your posts as much as ever. I'm getting over a sick headache.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 7:44 pm

Trump is pulling out of TPP. That's another trade deal, and includes Australia and New Zealand, who have every right to be mightily pissed off. It's a good freebie for China too, who would be at a disadvantage in the region.

Australia, New Zealand, Canada- Trump mucking all of them about.

What price the "Anglosphere"?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 7:45 pm

Tory donor predicts Theresa May will have to quit within two years
Businessman Charlie Mullins, who helped fund article 50 legal challenge, believes fallout from Brexit talks will force PM out

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ars-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another "working class man" who trusted the tory's
Anyway - see - I'm not the only one who think she wont last long

Just need to work out who will take her place now.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 7:49 pm

“alternative facts”

The world we're living in has environmental, economic, political and social challenges impacting us all. I'd wondered
how world leaders would handle the various adversities. Trump has chosen a profoundly dysfunctional coping mechanism.

The raisin oatmeal biscuits are over-baked and I'm sorry for that. Soak in some milk and limber them up nicely.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 7:53 pm

It’s official: Schools to employ apprentices, but BBC and Parliament let off

http://schoolsweek.co.uk/its-official-s ... ign=buffer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If a had £1 for every disgusted-tut! I've given since 2010 I could clear the national debt - tut!

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 7:55 pm

Far Right Watch IMP
‏@Far_Right_Watch
Anyone else hearing that #Tories and #Ukip are doing a tactical vote deal on #Copeland and #Stoke ? We are, from several sources.

???

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 8:01 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... shirebrook" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More on

Brothers jailed for trafficking people from Poland to work at Sports Direct

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 8:13 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... io-backing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rex Tillerson set for state department confirmation after Marco Rubio backing

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 8:16 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... shirebrook

More on

Brothers jailed for trafficking people from Poland to work at Sports Direct

And C4 Dispatches currently airing a programme about textile factories in the UK (Leicester?) paying their employees £3 or £3.50/hour. (allegedly)

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 8:16 pm

J.K. RowlingVerified account ‏@jk_rowling 1h1 hour ago
A study into the effects of the #GlobalGagRule, from the Guttmacher Institute. 1/2
http://ow.ly/7aZJ308h1Xe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Trumps Planned Parenthood withdrawal of funding reaches far further than I thought, it actually affects the overseas aid program as well.
"The Global Gag Rule affects the U.S. overseas program for family planning and reproductive health"

https://www.guttmacher.org/gpr/2015/06/ ... nt-go-away" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 8:18 pm

Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 8:37 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... rump-media" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I’ve reported on Putin – here are my tips for journalists dealing with Trump
Alexey Kovalev

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 8:42 pm

The leave vote isn’t sacrosanct. Labour should say so
Jonathan Steele
The Brexit narrative says the referendum result is untouchable, but there are ways to reverse the decision
"The conclusion is clear. When it comes to the parliamentary vote on whether Britain should trigger article 50, Labour should abstain or vote no. The government will no doubt win this immediate battle, but Labour will have more credibility in the long war when it comes to the task of constantly and rigorously raising questions about the government’s negotiating positions as the talks with the EU proceed.
Meanwhile, the party should use its opposition role to point to Brexit’s damaging economic impact and send a clear message here and abroad that Labour will reverse Brexit if it returns to power. Our democracy has checks and balances. Make use of them."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 8:52 pm

Ensuring A Smooth Transition In The WTO As We Leave The EU
https://blogs.fco.gov.uk/julianbraithwa ... ve-the-eu/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Smoothly separating the UK from the EU schedules is the best way we can reassure our WTO partners that their trade with us will not be disrupted as we leave the EU. Once we have our own schedules in the WTO, the UK will be able to negotiate changes to the international trading system as well, whether multilaterally (with the whole membership of the WTO) or plurilaterally (with some of it). A country’s WTO schedules also provide the baseline for negotiating bilateral Free Trade Agreements.

There is a process in the WTO that allows the UK to submit new schedules. But they can only be adopted – or certified – and thus replace our existing EU schedules if none of the WTO’s other 163 members object to them. So to minimise any grounds for objection, we plan to replicate our existing trade regime as far as possible in our new schedules. Before we take any formal steps in the WTO we will hold extensive informal consultations with the WTO membership. Every member will have an opportunity to raise any issues or concerns with us before we proceed."

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 9:02 pm

Cybersecurity Experts Uncover Dormant Botnet of 350,000 Twitter Accounts

A massive botnet secretly infiltrated the Twitterverse in 2013 but has lain mysteriously dormant since then, say researchers.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/6034 ... -accounts/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 9:06 pm

Government 'tried to bury' its own alarming report on climate change
Exclusive: The five-yearly assessment of what will happen to the UK as the world warms says one of an array of potential threats is the ‘significant risk’ to supplies of food

http://www.independent.co.uk/environmen ... 40726.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 9:11 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... adteachers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jonathan Slater, the permanent secretary at the DfE, told the public accounts committee on Monday that efficiency savings expected by government were “doable” without larger class sizes, curriculum changes or damaging pupil performance.

His claims were questioned by MPs who pointed out the National Audit Office had raised concerns the department had not outlined how schools would make £3bn worth of savings.

Come on then, tell everybody.

Lower teacher salaries?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 9:17 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Far Right Watch IMP
‏@Far_Right_Watch
Anyone else hearing that #Tories and #Ukip are doing a tactical vote deal on #Copeland and #Stoke ? We are, from several sources.

???

Found it in Huff post
The Tory party is set to give UKIP a clear run in the Stoke-on-Trent Central by-election in a bid to maximise Labour’s chances of defeat in its heartlands, The Huffington Post has learned

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/t ... pskewv1jor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 9:19 pm

May to discuss how to boost US-UK migration with Trump, say sources
PM’s approach following exploratory talks with Australia raises prospect of a ‘kith and kin’ immigration policy after Brexit

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ign=buffer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 9:26 pm

Seem that I'm talking to myself.
Good night.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 9:33 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... reme-court" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Supreme court rejects appeal to restore 'discriminatory' Texas voter ID law

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 9:35 pm

I have been reading,after a jog/walk/coughing fit.
Goodnight.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 9:37 pm

I tend to go out in the dark,probably my bat instincts.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 9:37 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Seem that I'm talking to myself.
Good night.

Sorry - even more than usual I can't write anything sensible this evening!

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 9:41 pm

Never stops me.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 9:46 pm

More on Trump executive orders/effects

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... go-funding" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 10:03 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/ja ... -is-needed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lawyers warn May against short Brexit bill if supreme court says vote is needed
PM and Brexit secretary are advised not to put single-clause bill to MPs because it could result in further court appeals

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 10:08 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... -and-wales" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Consultation outcome
Proposal on the provision of court and tribunal estate in England and Wales

(Implementation Dates)

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 10:10 pm

#TridentMisfire seems to be getting some traction

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 10:11 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/ja ... -is-needed

Lawyers warn May against short Brexit bill if supreme court says vote is needed
PM and Brexit secretary are advised not to put single-clause bill to MPs because it could result in further court appeals

So they would recommend a white paper?

Sorry should probably read the article....

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 23 Jan, 2017 10:41 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... g-cover-up" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Guardian view on the Trident failure: an alarming cover-up
Editorial

"There is a justifiably growing sense that Mrs May’s preferred style of government is secretive, risk averse and inflexible. "

..and atrocious dress sense.