Saturday 29th & Sunday 30th November 2014

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 9:44 pm

Exposing UKIP ‏@Exposing_UKIP · 48 secs49 seconds ago
YOUGOV :

Aged 18-24 voting intentions

LABOUR 28%
CONSERVATIVES 26%
GREENS 20%
UKIP 11%
LIBDEMS 8%
SNP/PC 5%
OTHER 3%”

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 9:57 pm

Welsh councils say mergers need 'shared vision'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-30254109

Ceredigion has rejected our advances ... boo hoo.

And so has Carmarthenshire (which somehow seems a more natural merger IMO). They both want to go it alone.

This grand mergers scheme is looking a bit messy - with only 6 of the 22 councils having got to first dates stage. Wonder how Carwyn is going to deal with this now - bang heads together?

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 9:59 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Exposing UKIP ‏@Exposing_UKIP · 48 secs49 seconds ago
YOUGOV :

Aged 18-24 voting intentions

LABOUR 28%
CONSERVATIVES 26%
GREENS 20%
UKIP 11%
LIBDEMS 8%
SNP/PC 5%
OTHER 3%”

As I keep pointing out, you cannot use opinion poll data like this. You cannot use a subset of an opinion poll to derive data. The only way to determine how 18-24 year olds are going to vote is to run a dedicated opinion poll for that age group.

The above figures are meaningless.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 9:59 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Exposing UKIP ‏@Exposing_UKIP · 48 secs49 seconds ago
YOUGOV :

Aged 18-24 voting intentions

LABOUR 28%
CONSERVATIVES 26%
GREENS 20%
UKIP 11%
LIBDEMS 8%
SNP/PC 5%
OTHER 3%”

I'm surprised at the shares for Conservatives and Lib Dems. But then I would be, wouldn't I ... could never have imagined being right wing as a young person.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 9:59 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Welsh councils say mergers need 'shared vision'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-30254109
Ceredigion has rejected our advances ... boo hoo.

And so has Carmarthenshire (which somehow seems a more natural merger IMO). They both want to go it alone.

This grand mergers scheme is looking a bit messy - with only 6 of the 22 councils having got to first dates stage. Wonder how Carwyn is going to deal with this now - bang heads together?

There seem to be far too many councils in Wales. But mergers don't always go well.

We had to reinvent Rutland and Herefordshire here.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 10:02 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Exposing UKIP ‏@Exposing_UKIP · 48 secs49 seconds ago
YOUGOV :

Aged 18-24 voting intentions

LABOUR 28%
CONSERVATIVES 26%
GREENS 20%
UKIP 11%
LIBDEMS 8%
SNP/PC 5%
OTHER 3%”
I'm surprised at the shares for Conservatives and Lib Dems. But then I would be, wouldn't I ... could never have imagined being right wing as a young person.

See my post above. It was this sort of flawed analysis that led Harris to claim Tories were leading amongst the young, they weren't.

Tish · Post by **Tish** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 10:18 pm

Tiny bit more info on the suspensions at the academy school in Enfield that Roger mentioned earlier. According to the Mirror its in relation to exam fixing. Oh dear!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/in ... ry-4721163" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 10:38 pm

Tish wrote:Tiny bit more info on the suspensions at the academy school in Enfield that Roger mentioned earlier. According to the Mirror its in relation to exam fixing. Oh dear!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/in ... ry-4721163" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Roger's instincts about that small group who left might be accurate.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 10:43 pm

£500MILLION black hole in the UK's flood defence plan just one year after Britain's wettest winter
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/50 ... od-4721201

According to this report approximately half of the flood defence measures are only being maintained at a minimal level ... asking for trouble.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 10:44 pm

Cybernats annoyed about some devolution being left out of the Smith Report very late.

They don't like you bringing up the oil price.

Tish · Post by **Tish** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 10:45 pm

This is just utterly bizarre, Penny Mordant apparently gave a speech on animal welfare in the Commons purely so she could amuse her mates by saying "rude words." I wasn't aware she was only 15!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -pals.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 10:50 pm

: MapofCAMHSBedsinEngland.jpg (52.94 KiB) Viewed 11194 times

Insp Michael Brown ‏@MentalHealthCop 3h3 hours ago
Here is a map of the CAMHS beds in England as of January: not many in the South West! -

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 10:55 pm

Tish wrote:This is just utterly bizarre, Penny Mordant apparently gave a speech on animal welfare in the Commons purely so she could amuse her mates by saying "rude words." I wasn't aware she was only 15!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -pals.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I just saw that. Glad those of us working hard in this area aren't relying on the Conservatives to make progress on animal welfare ... they don't seem to take it that seriously.

However, I suppose the one good thing that might come out of this is that more people get to hear about some animal welfare issues. But I'm not banking on that either.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 10:55 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
£500MILLION black hole in the UK's flood defence plan just one year after Britain's wettest winter
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/50 ... od-4721201
According to this report approximately half of the flood defence measures are only being maintained at a minimal level ... asking for trouble.

This sort of stuff is why Labour can't promise all that much. Black holes appearing all over the place. Compared with the non-savings made by IDS, flooding is fairly small beer though.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 10:56 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Tish wrote:This is just utterly bizarre, Penny Mordant apparently gave a speech on animal welfare in the Commons purely so she could amuse her mates by saying "rude words." I wasn't aware she was only 15!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -pals.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I just saw that. Glad those of us working hard in this area aren't relying on the Conservatives to make progress on animal welfare ... they don't seem to take it that seriously.

However, I suppose the one good thing that might come out of this is that more people get to hear about some animal welfare issues. But I'm not banking on that either.

I think Tom Watson is right. MPs, mostly male can get away with innuendo and in-jokes.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 10:57 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Holiday Inn in a bit of twitter bother....

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That's extraordinary stuff. Must backfire on them surely.

Claiming it was nothing to do with them – it has been taken down. What on earth did it say? I missed it

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 11:01 pm

Jon Trickett ‏@jon_trickett 2h2 hours ago
Totally unacceptable @jon_swindon: Farage-UKIP wants Hand Guns legalisedWhat planet is he on? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... -said.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

I had forgotten about this Ukip policy gem ....

One to keep for future reference. See if it disappears or gets 'clarified' beyond recognition before the election.

Repatriation of migrants - and legalisation of hand guns. They want a wild west society - with Farage as the sheriff.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 11:07 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Holiday Inn in a bit of twitter bother....

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That's extraordinary stuff. Must backfire on them surely.
Claiming it was nothing to do with them – it has been taken down. What on earth did it say? I missed it

TGS posted it here http://flythenest.org/viewtopic.php?p=17723#p17723" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(Hope I've got that link right...)

Tish · Post by **Tish** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 11:14 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Jon Trickett ‏@jon_trickett 2h2 hours ago
Totally unacceptable @jon_swindon: Farage-UKIP wants Hand Guns legalisedWhat planet is he on? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... -said.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
I had forgotten about this Ukip policy gem ....

One to keep for future reference. See if it disappears or gets 'clarified' beyond recognition before the election.

Repatriation of migrants - and legalisation of hand guns. They want a wild west society - with Farage as the sheriff.

Have UKIP sorted out their manifesto yet? I predict a bloodbath between the libertarian right wingers who set it up (and who provide all the funding), and the new influx of populist protectionists who want more council houses and benefits (but only for the indigenous English). I know a hatred of foreigners is keeping them together at the moment, but once they sit down and try to put together a string of actual policies, surely the schism is inevitable?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 11:33 pm

John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 6h6 hours ago
"I look around me at what the Yes movement has become. And I think I want out." https://faintdamnation.wordpress.com/20 ... mentalism/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … Via @hopisen

Very long - but interesting read. Just working my way through the comments now. And by the end of those I might have worked out who writes this blog ...?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 11:34 pm

There'll be a chunk cut from overseas aid, which will get spent about a dozen times- on pensions, roads, health, social care, defence and prisons.

And some pseudo "helping the low paid" which will assume they all live with rent free with their parents and don't have any kids.

Grammar schools.

And probably quite a few tax cuts which "pay for themselves".

Sticky99 · Post by **Sticky99** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 11:35 pm

gilsey wrote:Imo, if immigration from the EU is too high it's because economic growth on the continent is stagnant.

Merkel and the ECB need to get their fingers out and channel Keynes.

Labour's proposed reforms are necessary but not sufficient.

I absolutely agree with you. Perhaps the strongest reason for increasing EU migration is the fact that the UK economy, even with our dubious growth looks like a safe haven compared to a lot of other EU member states. I don’t blame people for coming here if there are no restrictions, they want to better their own lives and that is commendable. However, at the same time I think EU migration has become too high as previously explained, and I don't think we can absorb people coming in at the current rate from EU nations - we lack the housing, jobs and infrastructure to cope.

The European Union desperately needs a plan for growth, particularly in Southern Europe. Prospects of struggling European nations will only worsen if people in these countries want to go abroad to stronger economies. They’ll lose their own skilled labour and will become even less competitive without the labour to sustainably grow.

As for Miliband’s proposals to ban advertising jobs to migrants before advertising to residents in the UK, this is a welcome start. Next is an interesting case in point because when they do advertise jobs in the UK, a substantial proportion of them are apprenticeships in retail. This allows Next to hire British workers for less than hiring them regularly on the NMW, as the minimum apprentice wage is a lot lower.

Labour should also shake up the apprenticeship sector and weed out level 2 courses that act as glorified work experience. I’ve had a long-held suspicion that a section of learning providers and employers hire people on level 2 apprenticeships only to lower labour costs, in-fact in some cases eliminate labour costs all together because employers receive full grants from the Skills Funding Agency for taking on under 19’s.

Robust inspection of learning providers is needed to gauge the quality and consistency and learning. All of this would ultimately boost the credibility of apprenticeships so that the qualification can truly achieve the status that politicians want, and weed out learning providers who use the apprenticeship system to get richer on the taxpayer, and employers who are avoiding properly paying employees.

Back to Miliband’s proposal, employers and recruitment agencies are awfully crafty, and they will predictably find ways around restrictions on advertising jobs to migrants. Also, as with anything, a policy of this nature is only as good as the actual enforcement itself.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 11:36 pm

Tish wrote: Have UKIP sorted out their manifesto yet? I predict a bloodbath between the libertarian right wingers who set it up (and who provide all the funding), and the new influx of populist protectionists who want more council houses and benefits (but only for the indigenous English). I know a hatred of foreigners is keeping them together at the moment, but once they sit down and try to put together a string of actual policies, surely the schism is inevitable?

I suspect Carswell and Reckless will have a big say in it - whatever people's opinions of them crossing the floor, they are experienced politicians and know what works and what doesn't.

I took the precaution of copying over their policies as they stand to our Features section so we can compare and contrast as and when they come up with something.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 11:44 pm

Carswell's not going to be much use. His ideas are all "let's privatize everything and then have a referendum to choose the wallpaper on the internet".

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 11:52 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Carswell's not going to be much use. His ideas are all "let's privatize everything and then have a referendum to choose the wallpaper on the internet".

He is reasonably intelligent so will get rid of some of the more stupid ideas like the tax on company income which will hit trading companies.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 11:54 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:There'll be a chunk cut from overseas aid, which will get spent about a dozen times- on pensions, roads, health, social care, defence and prisons.

And some pseudo "helping the low paid" which will assume they all live with rent free with their parents and don't have any kids.

Grammar schools.

And probably quite a few tax cuts which "pay for themselves".

That's about right Tubby. They only want overseas aid to comprise of vaccination and health programmes - and to be delivered by British organisations only - according to today's website.

I think they're probably planning to pay for everything else by abolishing the Dept of Culture Media and Sports.

The wording re the NHS is very careful - free at point of use - doesn't commit to how it's funded and managed.

At present their policies for the people webpage reads like a list of every populist idea that could be shouted out from the floor at their Doncaster conference. Which, in fairness, is pretty much what they say it is.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 30 Nov, 2014 12:02 am

UKIP shop and cafe opening in Penarth causes angry protests
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... op-8199238
There were heated scenes as protesters staged a demonstration outside a newly-opened UK Independence Party shop and cafe.

Around 30 people gathered outside the shop on Glebe Street in Penarth in the Vale of Glamorgan.

The Cardiff South and Penarth constituency, which has been held by Labour for decades, is said to be one of Ukip’s target seats.

Members of Ukip and protesters exchanged frank views in the doorway to the shop.

One protester said: “I was walking home the other day and I saw this UKIP shop opening up and I was horrified. This my town which I love.

“We’re surrounded by people who are all absolutely appalled that they will be opening. We don’t want this happening in our town. It’s a disgrace.” ...

John Rees-Evans, the Ukip Parliamentary candidate for Cardiff South and Penarth said: “As regards what is happening outside here I think it is fabulous that people from all sorts of different political persuasions can express their views and that’s the reason we have opened a cafe here in Penarth because we don’t just want to chat to people who already agree with us....

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 30 Nov, 2014 12:05 am

rosita stefanyszyn retweeted
Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 2h2 hours ago
National Opinion Poll (YouGov):
LAB - 34% (+3)
CON - 32% (+1)
UKIP - 15 (-2)
LDEM - 7% (-1)
GRN - 6% (-)

Tish · Post by **Tish** » Sun 30 Nov, 2014 12:08 am

Carswell is surely the ultimate UKIP contradiction, seemingly the only person in the whole party who isn't bothered about immigration, but who believes the NHS should be dismantled and that companies should be able to fire their workers at will. What on earth has he got to offer to the disenfranchised working class voters that UKIP seem to now be targeting? Or is he going to suddenly start pretending that he's always been a supporter of increased council house building and was always secretly opposed to the bedroom tax? Would anyone actually believe that?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 30 Nov, 2014 12:11 am

VIP paedophile ring 'abused teenage boy INSIDE Buckingham Palace and Balmoral Castle'
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/vi ... ge-4721479

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 30 Nov, 2014 12:15 am

Tish wrote:Carswell is surely the ultimate UKIP contradiction, seemingly the only person in the whole party who isn't bothered about immigration, but who believes the NHS should be dismantled and that companies should be able to fire their workers at will. What on earth has he got to offer to the disenfranchised working class voters that UKIP seem to now be targeting? Or is he going to suddenly start pretending that he's always been a supporter of increased council house building and was always secretly opposed to the bedroom tax? Would anyone actually believe that?

I'd like to think they wouldn't. But then we have just had the utterly incredible and unedifying spectacle of people in Rochester and Strood voting for Reckless - with some of them, reportedly, saying they were voting for him because the Tory MP had been useless .... what can you say?

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sun 30 Nov, 2014 12:21 am

AngryAsWell wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: That's extraordinary stuff. Must backfire on them surely.
Claiming it was nothing to do with them – it has been taken down. What on earth did it say? I missed it
TGS posted it here http://flythenest.org/viewtopic.php?p=17723#p17723" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(Hope I've got that link right...)

Thanks m'dear! Seems there's been a fair bit of twitter-hackery going on, recently.

Tish · Post by **Tish** » Sun 30 Nov, 2014 12:23 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
UKIP shop and cafe opening in Penarth causes angry protests
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... op-8199238
There were heated scenes as protesters staged a demonstration outside a newly-opened UK Independence Party shop and cafe.

Around 30 people gathered outside the shop on Glebe Street in Penarth in the Vale of Glamorgan.

The Cardiff South and Penarth constituency, which has been held by Labour for decades, is said to be one of Ukip’s target seats.

Members of Ukip and protesters exchanged frank views in the doorway to the shop.

One protester said: “I was walking home the other day and I saw this UKIP shop opening up and I was horrified. This my town which I love.

“We’re surrounded by people who are all absolutely appalled that they will be opening. We don’t want this happening in our town. It’s a disgrace.” ...

John Rees-Evans, the Ukip Parliamentary candidate for Cardiff South and Penarth said: “As regards what is happening outside here I think it is fabulous that people from all sorts of different political persuasions can express their views and that’s the reason we have opened a cafe here in Penarth because we don’t just want to chat to people who already agree with us....

A UKIP cafe? Steak & Kidney pie with everything I presume.

Seriously though, that reaction makes me proud of Penarth. I grew up in Barry, not far away from there, and I hate the thought of UKIP trying to spread their poison in Wales.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 30 Nov, 2014 12:36 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Carswell's not going to be much use. His ideas are all "let's privatize everything and then have a referendum to choose the wallpaper on the internet".
He is reasonably intelligent so will get rid of some of the more stupid ideas like the tax on company income which will hit trading companies.

Jeez, that proposal didn't make it this far, did it?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 30 Nov, 2014 12:45 am

Osborne talking of £2bn more for the NHS.

Useless old Ed can't have had anything to do with this, could he?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 30 Nov, 2014 12:45 am

Oh yeah.

UKIP will stop paying whatever it is to the EU. And then spend all that about 5 times, without knowing it includes agriculture or that non-members have to pay dues as well.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Sun 30 Nov, 2014 1:00 am

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Osborne talking of £2bn more for the NHS.

Useless old Ed can't have had anything to do with this, could he?

I pointed out on Twitter that Osborne took about the same amount from the NHS budget underspend in Mar 2013 so that he could go into the Budget claiming that his deficit reduction was on target. Since he took that money away more and more Trusts have been going into financial difficulties...

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 30 Nov, 2014 4:59 am

04.50 UK time and CameronMustGo has stopped trending after a week.

The most recent, and another personal favourite on Go is this:

: cameronpress.jpg (33.21 KiB) Viewed 11062 times

While the latest in Stay is this:

Anthony Blampied ‏@AntonyBlampied 5h5 hours ago Standon, East
#CameronMustStay long enough to be thrown out by the people he's lied to, demonised and victimised so his mates can do business as usual

Plus YouGov report that 56% of Britons want more distribution of wealth and 71% a higher minimum wage.
http://www.yougov.co.uk/news/2014/11/27 ... on-wealth/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 30 Nov, 2014 5:07 am

Also interesting from YouGov

: private school effect.png (24.54 KiB) Viewed 11060 times

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 30 Nov, 2014 5:19 am

Tish wrote:
Have UKIP sorted out their manifesto yet? I predict a bloodbath between the libertarian right wingers who set it up (and who provide all the funding), and the new influx of populist protectionists who want more council houses and benefits (but only for the indigenous English). I know a hatred of foreigners is keeping them together at the moment, but once they sit down and try to put together a string of actual policies, surely the schism is inevitable?

Which, given our actual history, must amount to a grand total of about 10 people across East Anglia and the Northeast.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 30 Nov, 2014 8:34 am

CMG back at #3

Meanwhile all news on Cameron is about him turning the already toxic Tories into an even more ridiculous version of UKIP, which:

http://www.yougov.co.uk/news/2014/11/21 ... ting-ukip-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;has-more-personal-stigma-than-the

[other parties]

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 30 Nov, 2014 8:38 am

Morning All!

Following on from yesterday (?) is the £2 billion all for the English NHS?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 30 Nov, 2014 8:42 am

Say someone moves country for their first job, earns a living, pays taxes (though is of course denied the courtesy of actually being allowed to vote there). Maybe they even buy a house, have a family, maybe not, maybe they're just there for 6 months and have a 1 year rental contract on an apartment. Whatever the circumstances, if that job folds, can a civilised nation seriously expect to deport that person back to ... what? A country where perhaps they can't get welfare, and where they were born, but (in this example) never worked there or paid taxes.

And if Kippers are so concerned about these chaps coming over here and nicking our jobs, how does requiring that they have jobs work to that particular dictate?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 30 Nov, 2014 8:51 am

Great headline from Andrew Rawnsley

Autumn statement: Osborne only has scrawny rabbits to pull out of his hat
The chancellor’s failure to meet his deficit targets leaves him with no money to hand out pre-election bribes

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... nt-deficit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sun 30 Nov, 2014 8:51 am

Over at Grauniad Towers, there's an editorial on Camerons' speech.

It's OK - but quite few daft comments, and best of all......NicholasB droning on about weight moving averagely etc.etc.etc.

Re.UKIP - whilst I am not looking forward to what I think is likely to be vitriolic campaign by the Tories over the next few months and all the Ed and Labour bashing it will involve, the more Cameron tries to out-UKIP UKIP the worse UKIP will get.
It's pretty obvious now that Farage will say anything to get his face on the telly, his two ex-Tories have both had an embarrassing moment when he changed his "official" policy without telling them, and his supporters continue to embarrass themselves.
All those UKIPPERS who claim they're not racist won't be pleased to hear that Griffin is backing UKIP; it will become more obvious that various councillors and MEPs who are not doing their jobs; I don't think they'll keep this momentum going. TBH.

Meanwhile, a young girl with mental illness is going into her 5th. day in police custody because there is no acute bed in the UK to take her.
The ACC for Devon and Cornwall is is furious and upset in equal measure, and has said that the law would prevent him holding an adult that long under many circumstances even if a crime had been committed.
I'm sure the police looking after this young lady are doing their best, and I'm sure they are trying to care for her as well as they can considering they are not trained or equipped for this. If anything untoward happens to this girl, I will not blame the coppers - this is entirely down to this appalling government and its cuts, and the buck stops with Cameron.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 30 Nov, 2014 8:56 am

ephemerid wrote:Over at Grauniad Towers, there's an editorial on Camerons' speech.

It's OK - but quite few daft comments, and best of all......NicholasB droning on about weight moving averagely etc.etc.etc.

Re.UKIP - whilst I am not looking forward to what I think is likely to be vitriolic campaign by the Tories over the next few months and all the Ed and Labour bashing it will involve, the more Cameron tries to out-UKIP UKIP the worse UKIP will get.
It's pretty obvious now that Farage will say anything to get his face on the telly, his two ex-Tories have both had an embarrassing moment when he changed his "official" policy without telling them, and his supporters continue to embarrass themselves.
All those UKIPPERS who claim they're not racist won't be pleased to hear that Griffin is backing UKIP; it will become more obvious that various councillors and MEPs who are not doing their jobs; I don't think they'll keep this momentum going. TBH.

Meanwhile, a young girl with mental illness is going into her 5th. day in police custody because there is no acute bed in the UK to take her.
The ACC for Devon and Cornwall is is furious and upset in equal measure, and has said that the law would prevent him holding an adult that long under many circumstances even if a crime had been committed.
I'm sure the police looking after this young lady are doing their best, and I'm sure they are trying to care for her as well as they can considering they are not trained or equipped for this. If anything untoward happens to this girl, I will not blame the coppers - this is entirely down to this appalling government and its cuts, and the buck stops with Cameron.

BBC News said she had been found a place and was moved last night.

Tish · Post by **Tish** » Sun 30 Nov, 2014 8:58 am

According to the Star, two MPs are likely to be arrested in the next couple of weeks in relation to the child sex abuse allegations.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest- ... use-arrest" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Obviously this is in the Star, so I would normally assume it to be bullshit, but it is written by Don Hale of the Barbara Castle dossier, so maybe there is something in it.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 30 Nov, 2014 9:06 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:Say someone moves country for their first job, earns a living, pays taxes (though is of course denied the courtesy of actually being allowed to vote there). Maybe they even buy a house, have a family, maybe not, maybe they're just there for 6 months and have a 1 year rental contract on an apartment. Whatever the circumstances, if that job folds, can a civilised nation seriously expect to deport that person back to ... what? A country where perhaps they can't get welfare, and where they were born, but (in this example) never worked there or paid taxes.

And if Kippers are so concerned about these chaps coming over here and nicking our jobs, how does requiring that they have jobs work to that particular dictate?

Points based system mate. They point at the ones they want ... and they can come. Anyone else, nah. (To be heard in the Pub Landlord's voice).

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 30 Nov, 2014 9:08 am

Tish wrote:According to the Star, two MPs are likely to be arrested in the next couple of weeks in relation to the child sex abuse allegations.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest- ... use-arrest" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Obviously this is in the Star, so I would normally assume it to be bullshit, but it is written by Don Hale of the Barbara Castle dossier, so maybe there is something in it.

This must have been what Tom Watson and Exaro were briefing about yesterday ... hinting there was going to be further bombshells written about by Don Hale today.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 30 Nov, 2014 9:25 am

Good morning everyone

Are we starting to see some clues about the Guardian's position in May?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -europe-eu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A personal support for Cameron with caveats about his party.......leading to a recommendation to vote LD in order to keep him in power but not at the mercy of the right-wing Tories