Friday 1st May

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:09 pm

PorFavor wrote:@SpinningHugo

You've been watching "The Two Ronnies" again, haven't you? (Actually, Benny Hill did it first.)

Edited to add a comma and stuff.

I'm not aware of anyone who is called "Actually Benny Hill". Although I stand to be corrected. (Is it on a ballot paper somewhere?)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:10 pm

Bumboils.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:11 pm

PorFavor wrote:Bumboils.

I think it might be bumboils in a darkened room for you, PF.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:13 pm

Tom Clark ‏@guardian_clark 3m3 minutes ago
The Guardian verdict on general election 2015 is coming up soon ...

'verdict'?

Is Rusbridger going to don a black cap for it?

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:15 pm

But this is why the SNP polls are such a puzzle. I can't figure out why so many Scots (not all of them, Eric) seem to want to risk putting all of their eggs in one fundamentally separatist basket.

The polls are not reliable, imo. They are mostly taken from sub-samples of national polling. Then the media rams home this dubious message until people really believe it, and those tempted to back the winners will switch over. I think the SNP will benefit from this, no doubt about it. But I really don't think the entire Scottish people can have gone completely mad, not given their starting point as more rational and sensible than many other parts of the country.

I think Labour will do better than the polls say, because I don't believe people make such swift switches in allegiance, not in the absence of truly exceptional circumstances, anyway.

Possibly wishful thinking. But, for me, there is something deeply unconvincing about it all.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:15 pm

Isabel Hardman ‏@IsabelHardman 5m5 minutes ago
Executive of the 1922 Committee will start plotting its response to the election at 4pm the day after, I have learned http://specc.ie/1OLApH3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:17 pm

Rob Merrick ‏@Rob_Merrick 3m3 minutes ago
Blimey! Tories on Enfield Council sought injunction to stop head teacher raising issue of looming school cuts...reports #wato

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:17 pm

Dave - though now pink - was originally orange, and Sturgeon is most definitely orange, and Clegg's favourite book is orange.

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:20 pm

You can't have properly democratic, let alone honest, politics in a class rule society.

The reason our political debate is debased and degenerate is because those terms equally describe our class society.

Post by **adam** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:20 pm

Guardian - Britain needs a new direction: Britain need labour.

This newspaper has never been a cheerleader for the Labour party. We are not now. But our view is clear. Labour provides the best hope for starting to tackle the turbulent issues facing us. On 7 May, as this country makes a profound decision about its future, we hope Britain turns to Labour.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:21 pm

Graun endorses Labour !

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... eds-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Conservative campaign has been one of the tawdriest in decades.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:23 pm

Happy May Day, comrades.

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:25 pm

Well, blow me down. I expected the complete opposite.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:25 pm

Blimey!!

onebuttonmonkey · Post by **onebuttonmonkey** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:26 pm

The Guardian's backing... Labour.

I'm gobsmacked.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:26 pm

adam wrote:Guardian - Britain needs a new direction: Britain need labour.

This newspaper has never been a cheerleader for the Labour party. We are not now. But our view is clear. Labour provides the best hope for starting to tackle the turbulent issues facing us. On 7 May, as this country makes a profound decision about its future, we hope Britain turns to Labour.

Blimey!

No wonder David Cameron is careering about lighting fires with copies of the Guardian.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:27 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Blimey!!

Ditto.

I wonder if it was a last minute change of heart after Dave rubbished them?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:27 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
pk1 wrote:Graun endorses Labour !

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... eds-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Only five years too sodding late

It's a bit of a grudging endorsement - but I'll take that over them coming out for the Lib Dems again - or Green.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:29 pm

But Mr Miliband has grown in this campaign. He may not have stardust or TV-ready charisma, but those are qualities that can be overvalued. He has resilience and, above all, a strong sense of what is just.

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:33 pm

Wintour and Watt making some career-based mental adjustments, atm?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:33 pm

pk1 wrote:
But Mr Miliband has grown in this campaign. He may not have stardust or TV-ready charisma, but those are qualities that can be overvalued. He has resilience and, above all, a strong sense of what is just.

That'll do for me.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:34 pm

I've thought for a few weeks that the Guardian might be backing Labour but assumed wrongly that they'd do it through a "We'd like LibDems...but only if they go with Labour" - to do it directly is a surprise.

I guess that puts the Cameron snide comment about it in some perspective now.

'It's not a newspaper for reading, it's for helping to start the fire on a cold winter's evening'

Yeah, they'd don't like you Dave - suck it up.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:34 pm

Shows the declining influence of Rubbisher in his final days, methinks

The new editor needs to get rid of Watt, pension off Wintour, and get some decent political journalists in.

(if of course there *are* any these days, harrumph)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:34 pm

As you might have gathered by now, I've indulged in a bit of a celebratory thankfest.

@ohsocynical

No - I'm guessing that David Cameron has had a go at the Guardian because he knew that this was coming - rather than the Guardian reacting to his kindling jibe. He (DC) wouldn't have risked upsetting the Guardian if he hadn't known that this was coming.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:37 pm

mikems wrote:Wintour and Watt making some career-based mental adjustments, atm?

Not to mention The Sparrow.

Post by **refitman** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:39 pm

mikems wrote:Wintour and Watt making some career-based mental adjustments, atm?

I imagine their heads are spinning fast enough to power a small town.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:41 pm

It was obvious the Graun was going to back Labour, and has been for years.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:42 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:It was obvious the Graun was going to back Labour, and has been for a few months

Corrected

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:44 pm

My dogs are now standing by the door saying 'for gods sake turn that bloody thing off and take us out!',or words to that effect.
They will be phoning the RSPCA by next Friday.
Really thought the G would be wanting 5 more years of the same.Sorry Clegg.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:45 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:It was obvious the Graun was going to back Labour, and has been for years.

Not obvious to me.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:46 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:It was obvious the Graun was going to back Labour, and has been for years.

All those snide Wintour and Watt articles about "weird Ed", the complete output of John Harris for five years, the constant use of that bloody bacon sandwich picture and the "In Praise of .... yet another flipping Tory" were just a ruse to throw us off balance then? Well, succeeded with me.

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:46 pm

Remember the last few despairing days before *unt was going to hand BSB to Rupe? I wonder if the Guardian has anything similar lined up for us? Would be nice, wouldn't it?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:47 pm

Sturgeon under attack from a Radio 4 caller re her constant stance that she / SNP is speaking for the whole of the Scottish people ... her answer is very evasive re another referendum.

I'd say Scotland should definitely be expecting the SNP to push for another referendum as part of their manifesto in the Scottish elections ...

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:51 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:It was obvious the Graun was going to back Labour, and has been for years.
All those snide Wintour and Watt articles about "weird Ed", the complete output of John Harris for five years, the constant use of that bloody bacon sandwich picture and the "In Praise of .... yet another flipping Tory" were just a ruse to throw us off balance then? Well, succeeded with me.
Not to mention John Fcuking Crace and his fcuking 'Milidee'

Crace has been much better lately, albeit from a very low base but credit where it's due maybe he's finally seen just how piss poor Dave & Co are

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:54 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:It was obvious the Graun was going to back Labour, and has been for a few months
Corrected

AK, I don't think that is true. As soon as the Lib Dems went into coalition the tone of the Graun changed.

You know as well as me that there are lots and lots of stupid people writing for the Graun who dislike the compromises government brought and wanted a leftie alternative. The kind of fool who is now toying with the Greens and is going to give the SNP 45+ seats. The Lib Dems going into government with the Tories and voting to up tuition fees caused these protest vote morons to reassess. The ones who were not complete idiots went Labour. That was in 2010. It hasn't changed since.

Yes the Graun has published stories that are ani-Miliband, but it isn't the Labour house journal. I published news, and it is the case that what may be politely described as the lack of unequivocal support for the leader was newsworthy. Watts and Wintour may have no love for Miliband but this was not coming from the ether.

Finklestein made a good (and I think true) point about newspaper endorsements on Newsnight last night. Papers endorse what they think their readers want them to endorse. it isn't the case that they try to lead the readership, they are led by them. The Graun's readership wants it to endorse Labour.

Good.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:55 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:It was obvious the Graun was going to back Labour, and has been for years.
All those snide Wintour and Watt articles about "weird Ed", the complete output of John Harris for five years, the constant use of that bloody bacon sandwich picture and the "In Praise of .... yet another flipping Tory" were just a ruse to throw us off balance then? Well, succeeded with me.
Not to mention John Fcuking Crace and his fcuking 'Milidee'

Every time I see a Crace article I mourn anew the loss of Simon Hoggart.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:56 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Sturgeon under attack from a Radio 4 caller re her constant stance that she / SNP is speaking for the whole of the Scottish people ... her answer is very evasive re another referendum.

I'd say Scotland should definitely be expecting the SNP to push for another referendum as part of their manifesto in the Scottish elections ...

As I mentioned pleasantly the other day:

COME ON YOU SCOTS!

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:58 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:It was obvious the Graun was going to back Labour, and has been for years.
All those snide Wintour and Watt articles about "weird Ed", the complete output of John Harris for five years, the constant use of that bloody bacon sandwich picture and the "In Praise of .... yet another flipping Tory" were just a ruse to throw us off balance then? Well, succeeded with me.

I think Harris (another one I know) probably would vote Labour if he didn't live in Frome (a Con-Lib marginal). He is and was part of the problem. Part of the Compass group wibbling on incomprehensibly and moaning about the limits on political power to achieve the Nirvana they want but cannot describe.

(I am pretty sure NOBODY has been more critical of John Harris than me.)

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:58 pm

Just had to give Mr Riots a bit of TLC - (mostly involved getting him a fork from the kitchen after he took his lunch out into the garden and started cursing when he realised he'd forgotten to bring anything to eat it with) - because he has just owned to feeling really depressed about the forthcoming election - doesn't think Labour will win, doesn't think our candidate will win, is pissed off about the Question Time last night, says the Tories have a 5 point lead etc etc. He's having his rock bottom patch.

I tried to give him a bit of the other side of stuff which he may not see as much as I do - but to not much avail. He said to me with a note of almost utter panic in his voice - 'the thought of what the Tories will do if they get back in to power fills me with despair'. Him and me both.

He's tired - I can see how tired he is - of constantly having to fight against the injustices whether to animals or people that the Tories think beneath them. Poor man just wants to look forward to a bit more of a relaxing time.

So - anyone of a young age reading this - be assured there are many of us older folk who do not fit the stereotype as presented by much of the media. We care passionately about the inequality and injustice meted out to all ages. We just might need a bit or a lot more of your - younger energy in practical terms if we have to carry on fighting hard for it come May 8th.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 01 May, 2015 1:59 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote: All those snide Wintour and Watt articles about "weird Ed", the complete output of John Harris for five years, the constant use of that bloody bacon sandwich picture and the "In Praise of .... yet another flipping Tory" were just a ruse to throw us off balance then? Well, succeeded with me.
Not to mention John Fcuking Crace and his fcuking 'Milidee'
Every time I see a Crace article I mourn anew the loss of Simon Hoggart.

never read Crace. Always read Hoggart.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Fri 01 May, 2015 2:00 pm

mikems wrote:You can't have properly democratic, let alone honest, politics in a class rule society.

The reason our political debate is debased and degenerate is because those terms equally describe our class society.

Bit harsh!
Theres been a worrying amount of fish discussion on here today,
but wouldn't have gone as far as saying it was debased & degenerate.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 01 May, 2015 2:02 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Just had to give Mr Riots a bit of TLC - (mostly involved getting him a fork from the kitchen after he took his lunch out into the garden and started cursing when he realised he'd forgotten to bring anything to eat it with) - because he has just owned to feeling really depressed about the forthcoming election - doesn't think Labour will win, doesn't think our candidate will win, is pissed off about the Question Time last night, says the Tories have a 5 point lead etc etc. He's having his rock bottom patch.

I tried to give him a bit of the other side of stuff which he may not see as much as I do - but to not much avail. He said to me with a note of almost utter panic in his voice - 'the thought of what the Tories will do if they get back in to power fills me with despair'. Him and me both.

He's tired - I can see how tired he is - of constantly having to fight against the injustices whether to animals or people that the Tories think beneath them. Poor man just wants to look forward to a bit more of a relaxing time.

So - anyone of a young age reading this - be assured there are many of us older folk who do not fit the stereotype as presented by much of the media. We care passionately about the inequality and injustice meted out to all ages. We just might need a bit or a lot more of your - younger energy in practical terms if we have to carry on fighting hard for it come May 8th.

Not to mention that if young people vote in large numbers next week, then the Tories *will* lose. It really is as simple as that

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 01 May, 2015 2:03 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:It was obvious the Graun was going to back Labour, and has been for years.
All those snide Wintour and Watt articles about "weird Ed", the complete output of John Harris for five years, the constant use of that bloody bacon sandwich picture and the "In Praise of .... yet another flipping Tory" were just a ruse to throw us off balance then? Well, succeeded with me.
I think Harris (another one I know) probably would vote Labour if he didn't live in Frome (a Con-Lib marginal). He is and was part of the problem. Part of the Compass group wibbling on incomprehensibly and moaning about the limits on political power to achieve the Nirvana they want but cannot describe.

(I am pretty sure NOBODY has been more critical of John Harris than me.)

Pretty sure you are wrong about that, unless you regularly use the word tosser to describe him.

Crace by the way has recently got a shed load better.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 01 May, 2015 2:14 pm

Been out all morning, good news about the Guardian.
It may not shift one vote but good for the spirits even if it seems not exactly a glowing endorsement.

We went into Lampeter early as our candidate, Huw Thomas was there with a campaign stall.
Very impressed with him, intelligent and good at interacting with people. Not that there were many people around, but was told they had been getting a good response.

Later the Plaid war wagon arrived with Mike Parker, their candidate.
Huw crossed the road to say hi to them, and his greeting and smile to Parker seemed very genuine and was reciprocated, which was good to see, something I need to learn !

My husband and I wore Labour stickers on our coats as we shopped.
A woman sort of waved to me in a shop, sidled up to me and did a thumbs up.
She whispered 'I'm voting for Huw too', and I whispered back.
Then we both laughed, why were we whispering ?
The woman said something interesting, that you can feel embarrassed these days saying you support Labour.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 01 May, 2015 2:15 pm

Has anyone, in the light of the Guardian's coming out for Labour, ventured to look at any of the posts below the line (eg on the Election Blog)? I suppose I really should lino my girders and have a mooch about there myself, if I want to know how it's gone down.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 01 May, 2015 2:15 pm

Labour support was underestimated by a couple of points in the final polls pre-2010 GE. Just saying.......

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 01 May, 2015 2:18 pm

PorFavor wrote:Has anyone, in the light of the Guardian's coming out for Labour, ventured to look at any of the posts below the line (eg on the Election Blog)? I suppose I really should lino my girders and have a mooch about there myself, if I want to know how it's gone down.

The 45%ers must be self combusting.
Mind you, so would we have if it had gone the way we thought.

Haven't read the endorsement yet, hope they kick Clegg where the sun doesn't shine.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Fri 01 May, 2015 2:20 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:It was obvious the Graun was going to back Labour, and has been for a few months
Corrected
AK, I don't think that is true. As soon as the Lib Dems went into coalition the tone of the Graun changed.

You know as well as me that there are lots and lots of stupid people writing for the Graun who dislike the compromises government brought and wanted a leftie alternative. The kind of fool who is now toying with the Greens and is going to give the SNP 45+ seats. The Lib Dems going into government with the Tories and voting to up tuition fees caused these protest vote morons to reassess. The ones who were not complete idiots went Labour. That was in 2010. It hasn't changed since.

Yes the Graun has published stories that are ani-Miliband, but it isn't the Labour house journal. I published news, and it is the case that what may be politely described as the lack of unequivocal support for the leader was newsworthy. Watts and Wintour may have no love for Miliband but this was not coming from the ether.

Finklestein made a good (and I think true) point about newspaper endorsements on Newsnight last night. Papers endorse what they think their readers want them to endorse. it isn't the case that they try to lead the readership, they are led by them. The Graun's readership wants it to endorse Labour.

Good.

They were handing out a weeks worth of 40p off coupons in local co-op at weekend, so possibly the Guardian just deperate to increase it's readership, or less cynically maybe they they wanted to get the vote Labour message out to more people this week.
Most likely both.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 01 May, 2015 2:24 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:It was obvious the Graun was going to back Labour, and has been for a few months
Corrected
I'm inclined to agree this is a more recently development. The crap that the Graun has thrown at Miliband suggests to me that if they were planning to support Labour they were holding out for a different leader until the brink of the election

I think you've hit the nail on the head. If not a new leader, at the very least a change of direction. There hasn't been an outright split in the Labour party, Ed Miliband's great accomplishment, but there has been plenty of jockeying for position within and a lot of pressure this way and that from without. Now it's time to make do with what we've got and what Labour has got is a much less worrying option for the next 5 years. I think Cameron's capitulation to the eurosceptics has cost him very dearly. Every sensible person can see how disruptive an in/out referendum will be. They've been desperate to push Ed Miliband further to the right, so he'll be more like Blair and less of a worry and a bother, but failed and now the die is cast and it's a straight choice - EU referendum madness, possibly propped up by the DUP or non-EU referendum stability with the added bonus of possible propping up by the Libdems... the last being the real motivation for the Guardian I suspect. If a Labour endorsement will save the G from plummeting sales, then a coalition with Labour could save the Libdems from oblivion. I'm actually starting to think it more likely than another Tory/Libdem coalition, I'm just not sure if anyone has told Clegg yet...

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 01 May, 2015 2:25 pm

Sam Lister @sam_lister_

Of Cameron's 'career defining' slip, Miliband says "He's finally found something he is passionate about, his own career"
1:33 PM - 1 May 2015(Guardian Election Blog)