Forum rules Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
I think we lost because of the SNP factor.
.
I think it is very important that this view doesn't take hold (LIvingstone peddling it now).
Add on every Scottish seat, and we still lose.
We needed a bigger tent. not an even smaller one than those who wanted a break from Blair voted for in 2010.
You are missing the point. It isn't the Scottish seats, it is worse.
The Tories were able to convince Southern England that Labour meant an SNP coalition and the Scots would steal all their money.
It was toxic, it was all the media talked about and in seats like Nuneaton it heavily influenced voters. How much airtime did Sturgeon get in this election for a party not represented in most seats.
SpinningHugo wrote:
We needed 30+ seats that went Tory. We didn't get them because of the leader and the political strategy adopted.
Charlie Whelan, and others, lost this in 2010 with their selfish naivety.
Umunna is the best bet, or possibly even Creasy (but I don't think her personal circumstances allow.
If it is Burnham, Labour has given up trying to win.
Ridiculous! We have to analyse why the right won. It's complex but one factor is that the electorate aren't interested in politics. Another is that the media are owned by the right. Ummuna won't solve either of those problems. He just regurgitates soundbites.
And - tin foil or not - I truly believe this election has been fixed.
We need someone with the brainpower [not me obviously] to work out turnouts & check how many people may have not been registered.
Maybe Anatoly or someone can provide some more idea of why the polls why so wrong, but if voter registration was a problem then the polls would be as they were, yet the result as it was - if that makes sense.
I hope this isn't a post-mortem (if it is apologies). I think that the problem is not Labour - and certainly not Ed - but the fact that the political landscape has changed so much. We need to adapt to that. Grassroots engagement, the single issue approach. And not dividing ourselves. We need all of us non-Tories to form a strong anti-bastard coalition to fight this strategically, rather than continue to compete with each other.
TechnicalEphemera wrote:Big picture, the coalition government has taken a hammering, 50 odd seats down. The fact the Tories have managed to cling to power won't change that. People are going to get very angry at Cameron very quickly (I give it 6 months).
But the government won't give a fuck. As someone's said ATL at the graun, with a majority the convention is that they can force through any manifesto commitment against the house of lords. They will do what the fuck they like and people are sheep. I give up.
Just to add...in my constituency the council handled the Coalition's changes in voting registration very well. Labour here got 9.7%, only 5.8% in 2010.
tinyclanger2 wrote:I hope this isn't a post-mortem (if it is apologies). I think that the problem is not Labour - and certainly not Ed - but the fact that the political landscape has changed so much. We need to adapt to that. Grassroots engagement, the single issue approach. And not dividing ourselves. We need all of us non-Tories to form a strong anti-bastard coalition to fight this strategically, rather than continue to compete with each other.
Labour and the rump of the Lib Dems should seriously think about some sort of merger. The orange book brigade are gone, the Lib Dems have a power-base in the South West that Labour will never have and in Labour facing seats they have been irreparably wiped out.
Sky News are projecting an overall majority of 2 for Con. Given the Speaker, then whether or not Sinn Fein actually take their seats that could be a working majority of 4/5/6ish. Even with FTPA it could prove difficult for them to govern over the next five years. Throw in a few by-elections over the course of time and they could sink to being a minority government. Question remains, will they invite the remaining LibDems into a formal coalition or confidence&supply to give themselves some leeway/headroom? And will they win two-thirds of the seats which have yet to be decided?
This time, I'm gonna be stronger I'm not giving in...
LadyCentauria wrote:Sky News are projecting an overall majority of 2 for Con. Given the Speaker, then whether or not Sinn Fein actually take their seats that could be a working majority of 4/5/6ish. Even with FTPA it could prove difficult for them to govern over the next five years. Throw in a few by-elections over the course of time and they could sink to being a minority government. Question remains, will they invite the remaining LibDems into a formal coalition or confidence&supply to give themselves some leeway/headroom? And will they win two-thirds of the seats which have yet to be decided?
More likely to be the DUP, but they will have to ditch EVEL in its current form.
Do what you like with the psephology, I just think Britain is full of selfish c***s. I suspected it was true for most of the last five years, now I know.
Tizme will be disappointed - she's another that put a lot of work in for her candidate. Suppose at least it's not the Dotty Mare that won - a small consolation for Tiz perhaps.
What are the 'real lefty' brigade saying about the outcome ?
By that I mean the ones who won't sully themselves to vote for Labour because of Iraq, call them Red Tory etc.
NonOxCol wrote:Do what you like with the psephology, I just think Britain is full of selfish c***s. I suspected it was true for most of the last five years, now I know.
Yes, but....
The story of this election is a lot of people have voted against their best interests.
I was in the US once. Sacramento. Quite a lot of begging. I gave some change to one guy and the American I was with said he never did that because it would just get spent on booze and half of them were just doing it as a scam. My feeling was that a) my employer doesn't tell me what I can spend my income on and that b) I would rather get scammed by someone who didn't need it than not help someone who did.
I think this is a key area of stuck thinking that we need to somehow change.
@TE: yep, agree on the "Wooooo! Be afraid of the nasty Scottish people!" Which was always bollocks but made to feel real by some idiot cybernats upsetting everyone online and some thugs out on the streets in Scotland – with my suspicion-switch flipped on I still wonder how many of the latter were doing double duty as Gove's little army of sturgeon...
This time, I'm gonna be stronger I'm not giving in...
LadyCentauria wrote:Sleep well, @refitman – thanks for everything
@TE: yep, agree on the "Wooooo! Be afraid of the nasty Scottish people!" Which was always bollocks but made to feel real by some idiot cybernats upsetting everyone online and some thugs out on the streets in Scotland – with my suspicion-switch flipped on I still wonder how many of the latter were doing double duty as Gove's little army of sturgeon...
Much as I think the Tories would stoop to dirty tricks, some of the Nat extremists are quite also capable of idiotic anti-democratic behaviour all by themselves.
The media drummed on and on about the SNP...BBC I'm looking at you...and gave Sturgeon endless time to provide Tory propaganda, worry me, & wind up the 'real socialist' brigade to vote SNP all at the same time.
@pk1 yes bad news from Colne Valley - but not all bad
Jane increased Labour's vote by several thousand to nearly 20,000 - which was more than enough to be elected in 2001 and 2005 for Labour.
Unfortunately the Tory increased his vote by a similar amount.
The Lib Dems on the other hand slumped from around 17,000 to around 4,000.
It feels to me that one of the stories of the night is that the Lib Dems did too badly! I always thought they would hold on to their orange book true Liberal types, but clearly not.
Enough. I haven't cried yet and it can't be far off...
Shoulders and tissues are here Paul.
I know we nearly fell out about the Nats, but I'm sorry, it seemed step too far to like them when they are clearly out to destroy Labour and stick two fingers up to those who need help in the rest of the nation.
NonOxCol wrote:Do what you like with the psephology, I just think Britain is full of selfish c***s. I suspected it was true for most of the last five years, now I know.
Yes, but....
The story of this election is a lot of people have voted against their best interests.
Yes, well, fair enough... and if you add "stupid" to "selfish", or substitute it, you'll still find plenty of people making the point on social media. I found it easier to call people selfish than stupid this morning, but hey, if the cap fits.
On a slightly more serious note, I wonder if there are some "soft" Tories, and floating voters who went Tory at the last, wondering this morning what the actual fuck they have wreaked.
With EB gone, it does make it so much easier for somebody else to take the SC role without the rippling of discontent from the back benches that would have inflicted damage to the front bench if he had been demoted.
I'm sorry to see him go because he is one of the few that actually seems to know something about economics ! Instead we are to be ruled by a PR guy and his towel folder chum.
I think the majority of people find it impossible to believe that the Tories are as self-serving and mendacious as they are. They believe there are things in place in Britain that would prevent that.
It really is very strongly entrenched that our ruling class know better than we do and we should leave it in their capable hands. And that newspapers don't lie (unless they are lefties like the BBC).
Balls is making me cry by being such a gentleman, praising the new Conservative MP for fighting such a decent campaign but expressing concern for the future of the Union and of the EU
This time, I'm gonna be stronger I'm not giving in...
I think I love you 
