Friday 14th August 2015

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 4:54 pm

Pledging to reopen coal mines is enough to make me doubt Corbyn. A populist throwaway pledge, but one that relies on carbon capture and storage to be environmentally acceptable. The technology doesn't exist in a useable form yet. There's plenty of research going on, as there is for fusion, thorium reactors and a range of environmentally sound sources of energy.

I'm not an economist or accountant, so I don't know how much of his other manifesto ideas is equally flawed, but this puts me off. Kendall is obviously out, and YC seems less convincing by the day. I suppose I'm leaning towards Burnham, but hoping he's genuine in accepting that the electorate seems a lot more to the left than the MSM tries to portray.

All their bumph arrived today, along with Watsons. Impressively efficient, but a bit expensive, especially since they've all been spamming me for weeks.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/la ... yn-6221443

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 4:55 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:@yahyah

Looks like you could bump into Faisal if you're shopping in Aberaeron ... he's on the coast road trip.

Faisal Islam retweeted
Ship Inn Tresaith ‏@ShipInnTresaith Aug 6
25 Places In Wales You Won't Believe Are Real!

http://sndr.so/SyM6z" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam Aug 8
We chose to holiday in one of the 8 remaining LibDem seats... #Ceredigion

Thanks, we are going to Aberaeron tomorrow - will look out for him.
Weather is appalling, feel sorry for him and Willow [in North Wales].

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 4:55 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Umunna, moderate? I see.

I would've been more surprised if the Kendall supporters hadn't tried to rally together prior to the election result.

Have there been any announcements, press releases from any of the usual political think tanks and groups regarding their opinion on what is the best result and what will happen to the party afterwards?

Might just be the media coverage, but I've not noticed Kendall's backers much lately. Think they realised she wasn't up to it. They sound like they're fishing for jobs with Burnham or Cooper as much as anything.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:01 pm

55DegreesNorth wrote:Pledging to reopen coal mines is enough to make me doubt Corbyn. A populist throwaway pledge, but one that relies on carbon capture and storage to be environmentally acceptable. The technology doesn't exist in a useable form yet. There's plenty of research going on, as there is for fusion, thorium reactors and a range of environmentally sound sources of energy.

I'm not an economist or accountant, so I don't know how much of his other manifesto ideas is equally flawed, but this puts me off. Kendall is obviously out, and YC seems less convincing by the day. I suppose I'm leaning towards Burnham, but hoping he's genuine in accepting that the electorate seems a lot more to the left than the MSM tries to portray.

All their bumph arrived today, along with Watsons. Impressively efficient, but a bit expensive, especially since they've all been spamming me for weeks.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/la ... yn-6221443

On 'People's QE' there is now a reasonable amount out there explaining why it is bunkum

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c1060fb0-41b4 ... z3iiDZR3D6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://coppolacomment.blogspot.de/2015/ ... se-to.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... e-feasible" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On the 'tax gap' stuff

http://waitingfortax.com/2015/08/03/wha ... e-tax-gap/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If this stuff falls apart (and it does) most of the rest of the pledges fall down as unfunded.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:02 pm

55DegreesNorth wrote:Pledging to reopen coal mines is enough to make me doubt Corbyn. A populist throwaway pledge, but one that relies on carbon capture and storage to be environmentally acceptable. The technology doesn't exist in a useable form yet. There's plenty of research going on, as there is for fusion, thorium reactors and a range of environmentally sound sources of energy.

I'm not an economist or accountant, so I don't know how much of his other manifesto ideas is equally flawed, but this puts me off. Kendall is obviously out, and YC seems less convincing by the day. I suppose I'm leaning towards Burnham, but hoping he's genuine in accepting that the electorate seems a lot more to the left than the MSM tries to portray.

All their bumph arrived today, along with Watsons. Impressively efficient, but a bit expensive, especially since they've all been spamming me for weeks.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/la ... yn-6221443

Populism is one word to describe, bollocks is another, any mine which hasn't been maintained is virtually impossible to reopen within months, years on is ridiculous it's laughable, cave-ins, flooding of seams. A mine is moth balled half a mile from me, American owners, price of coal has dropped due to fracking, it's costing 10s of 1000s to keep it in any kind of state, and we're supposed to open pits closed 30 years ago?

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:04 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote: I think you will find not everyone kept their distance from Sinn Fein...it was just some were more open than others. In fact the British Government may have been directing some of their terrorism, and definitely were in the Loyalist side.
Certainly collusion with Loyalists from the British Government, and absolutely to be condemned.

The British Government got quite a lot of spies into the IRA over time (another factor in the IRA giving up), but I'd be surprised if they'd directed operations in a false flag way. But given what we know now about undercover cops, who knows?

This is what I find difficult to understand

I accept you have a lack of respect for Corbyn, that is your right, but he has been fairly open on what he thinks.

There are some members of recent Governments that have ordered or allowed operations that were, at best, bordering on legality. Things such as misrepresentation of security information, collusion in police cover-up and potentially up to allowing state-sponsored murder. A lot of this is hidden and we are only now starting to see some of this.

I cannot see how anyone would now have any respect for Blair......but you still seem to. His actions around Iraq and since leaving office were despicable...even if by some chance not illegal. Cooper believes in some very illiberal right wing policies on justice and Kendall seems to think that Osborne's ridiculous budget surplus idea is a good one (I am tempted to think of a scene from the' Thick of It' here!

Or these Labour politicians seemingly trying to form a fifth column in order to stop a democratic election....

I do not see why you don't respect Corbyn but maintain a respect for this bunch?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:05 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:FFS

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 33476.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A moderate Labour pressure group dubbed “the Resistance” is being formed by two top shadow cabinet members as Jeremy Corbyn pulls ahead in the leadership race, the Evening Standard can reveal. Chuka Umunna and Tristram Hunt have written privately to Labour MPs calling on them to meet four days before the leadership result is announced. It is being seen by MPs as a rival to Mr Corbyn’s Left-wing platform and the start of guerrilla warfare for Labour’s soul.

Oh, for crying out loud.

If Corbyn wins, or indeed whoever wins, I hope he/she get a clear majority amongst paid up Labour members rather than only the £3 sign ups. Then this sort of idiocy, if it is true, can be knocked on the head hopefully.

Can't speak for others but I certainly haven't got the stomach for a disunited party slugging it out ad infinitem.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:06 pm

55DegreesNorth wrote:Pledging to reopen coal mines is enough to make me doubt Corbyn. A populist throwaway pledge, but one that relies on carbon capture and storage to be environmentally acceptable. The technology doesn't exist in a useable form yet. There's plenty of research going on, as there is for fusion, thorium reactors and a range of environmentally sound sources of energy.

Yeah, I noticed this the other day and am similarly unimpressed. Reopening mines isn't easy anyway. He's got himself into this odd position trying to square environmentalism and tap into Labour tradition.

His optimism about carbon capture is in pretty strong contrast to his pessimism about nuclear and fracking. He's against those on principle, everywhere in the UK.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:09 pm

FWIW

Me:Burnham/Watson
Better Half:Cooper/Watson

No other preference votes.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:09 pm

So I think at last we have reached consensus

All the contenders for the Labour leadership are bloody useless

Says a lot for the party doesn't it.....!

And who takes the blame that the mainstream PLP can only put up three useless candidates that cannot win against a maverick....?

Perhaps it is worth seeing Corbyn win so the party blows apart and we restart again because at the moment it is a shambles!

But Corbyn is to blame for this of course.......

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:11 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote: I think you will find not everyone kept their distance from Sinn Fein...it was just some were more open than others. In fact the British Government may have been directing some of their terrorism, and definitely were in the Loyalist side.
Certainly collusion with Loyalists from the British Government, and absolutely to be condemned.

The British Government got quite a lot of spies into the IRA over time (another factor in the IRA giving up), but I'd be surprised if they'd directed operations in a false flag way. But given what we know now about undercover cops, who knows?

This is what I find difficult to understand

I accept you have a lack of respect for Corbyn, that is your right, but he has been fairly open on what he thinks.

There are some members of recent Governments that have ordered or allowed operations that were, at best, bordering on legality. Things such as misrepresentation of security information, collusion in police cover-up and potentially up to allowing state-sponsored murder. A lot of this is hidden and we are only now starting to see some of this.

I cannot see how anyone would now have any respect for Blair......but you still seem to. His actions around Iraq and since leaving office were despicable...even if by some chance not illegal. Cooper believes in some very illiberal right wing policies on justice and Kendall seems to think that Osborne's ridiculous budget surplus idea is a good one (I am tempted to think of a scene from the' Thick of It' here!

Or these Labour politicians seemingly trying to form a fifth column in order to stop a democratic election....

I do not see why you don't respect Corbyn but maintain a respect for this bunch?

I don't think I've ever said much in favour of Blair, have I? Certainly not in favour of invading Iraq, or what he's done since leaving power. And I'm strongly anti-Kendall- that surplus thing was laughable. Osborne seems to have dropped it.

Cooper's unimpressive, and so is Burnham. But they aren't offering false hope, like I think Corbyn is, policywise.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:12 pm

Looking at the pictures of Edinburgh, I would suggest a Corbyn victory will have the SNP shitting itself.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:17 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote: Certainly collusion with Loyalists from the British Government, and absolutely to be condemned.

The British Government got quite a lot of spies into the IRA over time (another factor in the IRA giving up), but I'd be surprised if they'd directed operations in a false flag way. But given what we know now about undercover cops, who knows?

This is what I find difficult to understand

I accept you have a lack of respect for Corbyn, that is your right, but he has been fairly open on what he thinks.

There are some members of recent Governments that have ordered or allowed operations that were, at best, bordering on legality. Things such as misrepresentation of security information, collusion in police cover-up and potentially up to allowing state-sponsored murder. A lot of this is hidden and we are only now starting to see some of this.

I cannot see how anyone would now have any respect for Blair......but you still seem to. His actions around Iraq and since leaving office were despicable...even if by some chance not illegal. Cooper believes in some very illiberal right wing policies on justice and Kendall seems to think that Osborne's ridiculous budget surplus idea is a good one (I am tempted to think of a scene from the' Thick of It' here!

Or these Labour politicians seemingly trying to form a fifth column in order to stop a democratic election....

I do not see why you don't respect Corbyn but maintain a respect for this bunch?
I don't think I've ever said much in favour of Blair, have I? Certainly not in favour of invading Iraq, or what he's done since leaving power. And I'm strongly anti-Kendall- that surplus thing was laughable. Osborne seems to have dropped it.

Cooper's unimpressive, and so is Burnham. But they aren't offering false hope, like I think Corbyn is, policywise.

They are offering pretty much nothing to be honest, especially Cooper!

If Corbyn hadn't a hope of winning they would both have parroted Tory policies as they seem to all believe that Labour lost because it was too left wing. So with Corbyn they would lose and with Corbyn they would have proposed crap policies!

All we would have is hope that they would tack to the left at some point but I don't think they would. A continuation of austerity with a velvet glove would not have inspired me and do you really think it would inspire enough voters?

Blame the Labour Party establishment for this situation not Corbyn!

False hope vs No hope! Difficult decision

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:18 pm

HindleA wrote:FWIW

Me:Burnham/Watson
Better Half:Cooper/Watson

No other preference votes.

My husband's been reading to me from Watson's leaflet and have to say we are impressed by his detail and lack of airy-fairyness. A good mix of what he has done and what he would do.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:18 pm

Temulkar wrote:Looking at the pictures of Edinburgh, I would suggest a Corbyn victory will have the SNP shitting itself.

Whatever's good for the Tories is good for them.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:19 pm

Temulkar wrote:Looking at the pictures of Edinburgh, I would suggest a Corbyn victory will have the SNP shitting itself.

I don't.

It is the crowd fallacy. We saw the same with Occupy.

Chelsea have huge crowds.

Does that show a majority of people support Chelsea?

Tizme1 · Post by **Tizme1** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:20 pm

@TE

Something of a response to the The Times claims.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... ection-mps" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:21 pm

Temulkar wrote:Looking at the pictures of Edinburgh, I would suggest a Corbyn victory will have the SNP shitting itself.

No it won't.

He will be labeled a Red Tory and they will carry on. The SNP surge is about something else other than rational politics.

Electing Corbyn won't change the picture north of the border.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:22 pm

suerose ‏@mykkym1 33m33 minutes ago
Liz Kendall tells her supporters to vote for anyone but Corbyn. They are both thinking it over and will get back to her.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:24 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
55DegreesNorth wrote:Pledging to reopen coal mines is enough to make me doubt Corbyn. A populist throwaway pledge, but one that relies on carbon capture and storage to be environmentally acceptable. The technology doesn't exist in a useable form yet. There's plenty of research going on, as there is for fusion, thorium reactors and a range of environmentally sound sources of energy.

I'm not an economist or accountant, so I don't know how much of his other manifesto ideas is equally flawed, but this puts me off. Kendall is obviously out, and YC seems less convincing by the day. I suppose I'm leaning towards Burnham, but hoping he's genuine in accepting that the electorate seems a lot more to the left than the MSM tries to portray.

All their bumph arrived today, along with Watsons. Impressively efficient, but a bit expensive, especially since they've all been spamming me for weeks.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/la ... yn-6221443
On 'People's QE' there is now a reasonable amount out there explaining why it is bunkum

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c1060fb0-41b4 ... z3iiDZR3D6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://coppolacomment.blogspot.de/2015/ ... se-to.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... e-feasible" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On the 'tax gap' stuff

http://waitingfortax.com/2015/08/03/wha ... e-tax-gap/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If this stuff falls apart (and it does) most of the rest of the pledges fall down as unfunded.

Corbyn hasn't said he's expecting to raise £120bn. Ditto Richard Murphy.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:28 pm

BBC Politics ‏@BBCPolitics 2h2 hours ago
Fracking for shale gas in Wales should still be opposed despite plans to fast-track such schemes in England, the... http://bbc.in/1J8pHG7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good. Again.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:28 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
They are offering pretty much nothing to be honest, especially Cooper!

If Corbyn hadn't a hope of winning they would both have parroted Tory policies as they seem to all believe that Labour lost because it was too left wing. So with Corbyn they would lose and with Corbyn they would have proposed crap policies!

All we would have is hope that they would tack to the left at some point but I don't think they would. A continuation of austerity with a velvet glove would not have inspired me and do you really think it would inspire enough voters?

Blame the Labour Party establishment for this situation not Corbyn!

False hope vs No hope! Difficult decision

I agree with some of that- we needed a "soft left" candidate who'd been around a bit. We didn't get one. So Corbyn performing well was important. Corbyn winning though is a disaster.

I can't believe that anybody who'd been in Cabinet/Shadow Cabinet would offer the simplistic stuff Corbyn does. He only supported EU membership unequivocally a couple of weeks ago.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:29 pm

Tizme1 wrote:@TE

Something of a response to the The Times claims.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... ection-mps" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes, and he will be watched like a hawk to make sure he doesn't. Corbyn's problem in my mind is his policy set is in places batshit crazy (see coal). But I don't think he will launch a civil war on the Labour Party at Westminster.

I expect him to last until May when the novelty factor will have worn off and he will have tanked in the polls. At which point a unity candidate may emerge or there will be another election. I also don't place any stock by the standard reporting open insurrection by shadow cabinet members yet.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:30 pm

For those in the Principality:

Mark Drakeford supports Corbyn, Leighton Andrews supports Yvette Cooper.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:35 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
They are offering pretty much nothing to be honest, especially Cooper!

If Corbyn hadn't a hope of winning they would both have parroted Tory policies as they seem to all believe that Labour lost because it was too left wing. So with Corbyn they would lose and with Corbyn they would have proposed crap policies!

All we would have is hope that they would tack to the left at some point but I don't think they would. A continuation of austerity with a velvet glove would not have inspired me and do you really think it would inspire enough voters?

Blame the Labour Party establishment for this situation not Corbyn!

False hope vs No hope! Difficult decision
I agree with some of that- we needed a "soft left" candidate who'd been around a bit. We didn't get one. So Corbyn performing well was important. Corbyn winning though is a disaster.

I can't believe that anybody who'd been in Cabinet/Shadow Cabinet would offer the simplistic stuff Corbyn does. He only supported EU membership unequivocally a couple of weeks ago.

I think the problem is there are simply no charismatic Labour leaders from any wing of the party. Creasy maybe if she had stood, Jarvis possibly. Somebody is going to have to emerge in the next few months.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:36 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
55DegreesNorth wrote:Pledging to reopen coal mines is enough to make me doubt Corbyn. A populist throwaway pledge, but one that relies on carbon capture and storage to be environmentally acceptable. The technology doesn't exist in a useable form yet. There's plenty of research going on, as there is for fusion, thorium reactors and a range of environmentally sound sources of energy.

I'm not an economist or accountant, so I don't know how much of his other manifesto ideas is equally flawed, but this puts me off. Kendall is obviously out, and YC seems less convincing by the day. I suppose I'm leaning towards Burnham, but hoping he's genuine in accepting that the electorate seems a lot more to the left than the MSM tries to portray.

All their bumph arrived today, along with Watsons. Impressively efficient, but a bit expensive, especially since they've all been spamming me for weeks.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/la ... yn-6221443
On 'People's QE' there is now a reasonable amount out there explaining why it is bunkum

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c1060fb0-41b4 ... z3iiDZR3D6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://coppolacomment.blogspot.de/2015/ ... se-to.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... e-feasible" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On the 'tax gap' stuff

http://waitingfortax.com/2015/08/03/wha ... e-tax-gap/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If this stuff falls apart (and it does) most of the rest of the pledges fall down as unfunded.
Corbyn hasn't said he's expecting to raise £120bn. Ditto Richard Murphy.

No but both offer the possibility of lots of relatively easy extra revenue out there.

Again, this is something someone who'd been around the Treasury (like Balls or Miliband) would have known much more about and ignored Murphy.

Populism is the word with Corbyn. It's a bizarre mirror image of rightwing populism- other people, the poor, are taking your money and responsible for the hospital having to close. It's other people, not paying tax, mostly rich, are responsible for the hospital closing.

I think the hospital's closing because taxes are too low in general, in the context of the aging population we have. Which probably makes me less electable than Corbyn.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:37 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
Tizme1 wrote:@TE

Something of a response to the The Times claims.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... ection-mps" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes, and he will be watched like a hawk to make sure he doesn't. Corbyn's problem in my mind is his policy set is in places batshit crazy (see coal). But I don't think he will launch a civil war on the Labour Party at Westminster.

I expect him to last until May when the novelty factor will have worn off and he will have tanked in the polls. At which point a unity candidate may emerge or there will be another election. I also don't place any stock by the standard reporting open insurrection by shadow cabinet members yet.

Depends on the size of his win. If it is big, then it will be 2017 at the earliest before the membership would swallow a coup.

You can get 20/1 on Watson being leader for the 2020 election. Remember who told you.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:38 pm

Bloody hell I've just seen this headline at the G, Jewish Labour MP hits out at Jeremy Corbyn's record on antisemitism with the following sub-heading.

Shadow Northern Ireland secretary Ivan Lewis adds to scrutiny by Jewish community of Labour leadership candidate, saying views are ‘cause for concern’

I suppose I ought to save comment until after reading, but not sure that I can be bothered. Anyway I get rather annoyed that any criticism of Israel and their treatment of the occupied territories is conflated with antisemitism, in much the same manner as I used to get fed up with students of Pakistani origin pulling out the race card whenever they were chastised for misbehaviour. Just saying.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:38 pm

yahyah wrote:suerose ‏@mykkym1 33m33 minutes ago
Liz Kendall tells her supporters to vote for anyone but Corbyn. They are both thinking it over and will get back to her.

Doesn't she know there's a transferable vote system?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:53 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Just back from shopping in town. Not a great start to the outing when my driving specs fell off into the cow shit as I was opening the gates during a quick break in the cows crossing so I could drive through.

However (I can do it too, utopian dreams) this post is about the chat I had with some friends I met in Tesco - who I hadn't seen for some time. They are lefties but haven't really supported Labour since Iraq or any other particular party. They voted Labour last time as the least bad option in their opinion. They were pissing themselves laughing about the Labour leadership election which they consider gets more farcical with each day ... have to say I agree. But they asked me what I thought would be the impact on the Assembly elections for Labour if Corbyn wins the leadership. With not much reflection I said I thought it might help us. They said they thought it would too. They told me their neighbour who used to be a Labour member - but who had recently voted Ukip - told them he has rejoined the party to vote for Corbyn because he actually says what he believes in and sticks to it. My friends believe that Labour needs this huge shake up ... and the PLP, or elements of it, need to understand how far away from the views of much of the membership, present and past, they have become. They hope that if Corbyn wins it is with a good majority to stop any claims of his victory only being due to entryism.

This is pretty much how I feel about it. It's not Corbyn as such, but he is the catalyst to get Labour back on track a bit. If he can get Kippers back on board, that'll be a great achievement.

Tizme1 · Post by **Tizme1** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 5:57 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
Tizme1 wrote:@TE

Something of a response to the The Times claims.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... ection-mps" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes, and he will be watched like a hawk to make sure he doesn't. Corbyn's problem in my mind is his policy set is in places batshit crazy (see coal). But I don't think he will launch a civil war on the Labour Party at Westminster.

I expect him to last until May when the novelty factor will have worn off and he will have tanked in the polls. At which point a unity candidate may emerge or there will be another election. I also don't place any stock by the standard reporting open insurrection by shadow cabinet members yet.

*switch into Polly-Anna Mode" Clunk.

What if having won, Corbyn reaches out to other candidates and Labour MPs by saying OK, now we have to come to a consensus on policy, including listening to the views of the wider Labour party. Not wanting to have an actual civil war within the party, they to one degree or another go along with that, expecting to oust him as soon as possible. While the policy 'discussion' is happening, he actually, you know, opposes the Tories. If he is to live up to his principles, then he is going to have to accept a collegiate approach to policy decisions means not all his policies or preferences will be included.

Meanwhile, Labour don't tank in the polls or elections as there is still the 'novelty' factor. Or relief that the opposition is opposing. This lasts anything between one and three years, at which point Corbyn says 'my work is done' and stands down. By which stage a dynamic alternative leader has emerged who won't frighten the horses.

2020 rolls round, Labour get a majority. Greens win all the old lib dem seats in the SW and we all settle down to happy ever after time.

*switch into cynical mode* clunk

*sigh*

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 6:03 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
utopiandreams wrote:Bloody hell I've just seen this headline at the G, Jewish Labour MP hits out at Jeremy Corbyn's record on antisemitism with the following sub-heading.

Shadow Northern Ireland secretary Ivan Lewis adds to scrutiny by Jewish community of Labour leadership candidate, saying views are ‘cause for concern’
I suppose I ought to save comment until after reading, but not sure that I can be bothered. Anyway I get rather annoyed that any criticism of Israel and their treatment of the occupied territories is conflated with antisemitism, in much the same manner as I used to get fed up with students of Pakistani origin pulling out the race card whenever they were chastised for misbehaviour. Just saying.
It's somewhat more than annoying that anyone who even hints at support for Palestine suddenly starts to get veiled threats from the JC etc. If Miliband hadn't been of Jewish origin himself, the attacks would have been much, much worse. I'm sick of it. No-one dare say anything about Israel. Blair might even have been able to salvage something from his failed efforts to build the economy in Gaza if he'd been open about Israel's blatant obstruction, but expecting Blair to do the right thing these days is pointless.

I'm a bit annoyed with the typical description of Hamas as straightforwardly a terrorist organisation, too.

Agree about the Jewish Chronicle, and the awful editor, Pollard. The attacks on Corbyn were desperate.

But this does show, I think, the problem with transposing "campaigning" politicians like Corbyn to government. Whereas it's easy to imagine Miliband playing a positive role in a peace progress (albeit partly because he's Jewish himself) I think Israel would find it reasonably easy to drive a wedge between Corbyn and other European countries, and he'd get nowhere.

But again, I come back to Iraq. Plenty of politicians have "baggage" over that, and Corbyn doesn't.

Post by **refitman** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 6:16 pm

Just got home and have had the Corbyn and Cooper bumf delivered. Haven't had a proper read through yet, but the Cooper booklet has some funky augmented reality included.

Scanning the 5th page, with my phone, the headlines turn into Youtube and other assorted links:

: Screenshot_2015-08-14-18-08-10.png (713.13 KiB) Viewed 5875 times

Doesn't make me want to vote for her, just thought it was quite cool.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 6:24 pm

@refitman
Thanks for that ,wondered WTF "scan this page with LACAR" meant and what would turn up.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 6:27 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
You can get 20/1 on Watson being leader for the 2020 election. Remember who told you.

Who said that?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 6:27 pm

Am I the only human being in Britain who refuses to have a smartphone ?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 6:28 pm

Gordon Brown to join leadership.debate,with major speech this weekend

http://labourlist.org/2015/08/gordon-br ... s-weekend/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 6:32 pm

yahyah wrote:Am I the only human being in Britain who refuses to have a smartphone ?

If pushed, I always lay claim to being human. I don't have a smartphone, either. (What is a smartphone? I genuinely don't know.)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 6:35 pm

One with an IQ over 130?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 6:35 pm

yahyah wrote:Am I the only human being in Britain who refuses to have a smartphone ?

No. Mr Ohso and myself makes three....

Post by **refitman** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 6:36 pm

PorFavor wrote:
yahyah wrote:Am I the only human being in Britain who refuses to have a smartphone ?
If pushed, I always lay claim to being human. I don't have a smartphone, either. (What is a smartphone? I genuinely don't know.)

Smartphone - big(-ish) screen, full web browser, able to install apps etc...

I think Anatoly said he didn't even have a mobile, on the old site.

Post by **refitman** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 6:37 pm

HindleA wrote:One with an IQ over 130?

[youtube]bcYppAs6ZdI[/youtube]

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 6:38 pm

yahyah wrote:Am I the only human being in Britain who refuses to have a smartphone ?

I don't now, and have never had at any time, a mobile of any description.

I've managed without one for so long I don't see the point. There's been one or two occasions when it would have been useful to have it but no more than that.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 6:39 pm

PorFavor wrote:
yahyah wrote:Am I the only human being in Britain who refuses to have a smartphone ?
If pushed, I always lay claim to being human. I don't have a smartphone, either. (What is a smartphone? I genuinely don't know.)

Bet there are some cats out there that have them.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 6:41 pm

It was,a source of contention that I wouldn't get/use a mobile for work purposes when I was a home help.1.Not very respectful for it to go off when helping someone in their own home(the position now reversed I have to grit my teeth sometimes)2.You use the landline phone to clock in/out (with agreement)any information can be passed on that way.I cycled.Out of necessity I relented but only have a very basic mobile.Still shout into it for some delusional reasoning that people are more likely to hear me.(I don't like 'phones in general,we didn't have one until I was seventeen)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 6:42 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
yahyah wrote:Am I the only human being in Britain who refuses to have a smartphone ?
No. Mr Ohso and myself makes three....

Thank you for that vote of confidence . . . .

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 6:45 pm

Night all, time to get the pasta going.

Thanks for all your posts - please don't give up fighting for your candidates.

For me it won't be over until I've seen next week's TV hustings and I've actually committed pen to paper [or presume we can do it online].

& Tisme...your scenario is one I could live with.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 6:46 pm

HindleA wrote:I only have a very basic mobile.Still shout into it for some delusional reasoning that people are more likely to hear me.(I don't like 'phones in general,we didn't have one until I was seventeen)

I rarely use mine - I only got it in order to deal with a family emergency abroad. I can't help regarding the mobile 'phone as some sort of field radio. I tend to be very brief and staccato on it. Not a relaxing thing to use - and the person at the other end must think I'm auditioning for "The Professionals" .

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 6:48 pm

@yahyah

Night night.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 14 Aug, 2015 6:50 pm

'Chillaxing' David Cameron blighted by 'swimmer's ear' on family holiday to Portugal

DAVID Cameron has had to interrupt his sunshine holiday to seek medical treatment for an ear infection

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/598318 ... ay-Algarve

Oh dear, what a shame.