Tuesday 22nd September 2015

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 5:40 pm

Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft 1h1 hour ago
A little bit about the "friend" of No10 sent out to spin for them
http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2015/ ... p.html?m=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It isn't just handbags with Cameron is it ?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 5:49 pm

yahyah wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:A top eatery doesn't need drunken vandals eating in it, surely? There are most likely going to be other people paying a lot of money in it. What are they going to think?

That's not exactly a top end eatery in the DT story.

They would book private rooms.

Some of the other drinking/drug clubs are rather more low rent than the PG or Bullingdon, one meets in a private room above Pizza Express.
Others have private venues as mentioned in this article.

http://www.tatler.com/news/articles/sep ... king-clubs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wonder whether there's a wind up going on there.

several are members of St Benet's, the last male-only college at Oxford. Technically, it's not a college but a permanent private hall, which was founded in 1897 by the monks of Ampleforth Abbey. But it is still (just) men-only, and its tininess makes it exclusive: only 16 undergraduates join each year, almost all of them from major public schools.

That's because it has a "Benedictine ethos", which doesn't suggest a riot a minute.

It all seems a bit like naive journos writing up what they were told about football hooligans. Not all that imaginative either.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 5:50 pm

citizenJA wrote: Read about the insane contracts junior doctors are ordered to agree to from Tory government and you'll understand better why staffing the NHS is at a crisis point. I'm appalled at how they're being treated.
It's impossible to expect working people to tolerate unsafe employment conditions under any circumstances.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... 0-per-cent" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I saw that yesterday, and you're right.

Particular problem at Addenbrooke's though? Something more deeply wrong is going on there.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 5:52 pm

Benedictine monks who created, and I believe still distill, a 40% proof liquor ?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 5:54 pm

& Ampleforth brew a 7% beer.
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle ... brews-beer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 5:56 pm

Institute for Fiscal Studies
More than nine in ten individuals pay more in taxes than they receive in social security over their lifetime

"In a single year, 64% of individuals in the UK pay more in taxes than they receive in social security. But most individuals experience considerable change over their lifetimes: for example those not in paid work in one year are often in work in another year. New analysis, published by the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) today, shows that extending the period of analysis from a single year to an entire lifetime increases the percentage who pay more in taxes than they receive in social security to 93%."

http://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/7987" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 6:11 pm

Say what you like about Corbyn, he's got a bunch of tedious people who pop up on the Guardian invoking him. This article about the PM of Italy slagging Corbyn off has got them out.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... italian-pm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The article basically says that Renzi is sounding off because he's got some trouble from his leftwing, but the professed Corbyn fans aren't happy.

I wonder whether most of them are genuine. Then again, I thought that about the Cybernatters.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 6:14 pm

Is that why you are taking an almost Toby Youngesque position and defending the boozy toffs at Oxford Tubby ? Because you see us as Corbynistas ?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 6:19 pm

& my brother-in-law was a Lib Dem voter for years.
He phoned us to update us on his health this afternoon, and said he thinks Corbyn is a straight talker and has been impressed by what he's heard.

An unlikely Corbynista !

edited to add: Anecdotal I know, but enough anecdotes and it ends up as evidence

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 6:39 pm

yahyah wrote:Is that why you are taking an almost Toby Youngesque position and defending the boozy toffs at Oxford Tubby ? Because you see us as Corbynistas ?

Nah, the people I'm talking about are all over the place. They've got more than a little UKIP about them. See for instance the slagging off Renzi for being Italian.

Something odd is going on.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 6:46 pm

Christopher Hope retweeted
Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft 2h2 hours ago
Good to see PM retains his sense of humour. We must have the same doctor. I had the same in 2010 when the PM reneged http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-34328067" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

No it's not just handbags ... more like Gladstone bags filled with bricks.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 6:59 pm

"The price of good quality English farmland has doubled over the past five years, making it the most expensive in the world and offering a better return than prime London property, the FTSE 100 or gold.

According to agents Knight Frank demand from wealthy private individuals as well as pension funds, has driven up the average price for an acre of “investment grade” English farmland (large plots with economies of scale) to £12,500, up 100% since 2010. In comparison, the price of luxury London homes has risen 42% over the same period, the FTSE 100 has increased 33%, while gold has dropped 10%. Many recent buyers of prime farmland are lifestyle buyers, often London financiers, for whom farming can be more of a hobby than about making the land pay its way."

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/s ... five-years" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not happy about this.
It's like a game being made of a resource everyone needs to live.
Of course, I'm including housing too though arable farmland is used to farm, to grow food.
The purpose of each extraordinarily high-priced necessity is different, but essential.

Price of an acre of ‘investment grade’ farmland, 2015

England: £12,500
New Zealand: £5,983
Argentina: £4,510
France: £4,492
US: £4,470
Brazil: £2,390
Zambia: £1,830
Romania: £1,460
Australia: £830
Canada: £800
Russia: £490

Source: Knight Frank

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 7:55 pm

I went to an old, albeit minor, public school and moved in similar circles to Sam Cam at UWE. On the issue of Public School nepotism + old school tie networks, they clearly exist. It is why I was regularly asked if I could 'sort' placements etc whilst consulting at IBM - not so much as a teacher and bugger all as an author (although I have beneffitted from unexpected support in my writing).

As far as Sam Cam goes, I knew/met people she claims to have been friendly with (I have no memory of her personally despite being there at the same time) and frequented the places she claims to have been at. Bolivian marching powder was commonplace, indeed almost obligatory at events, and it could definitely get quite debauched.

The problem with the pig's head is - in my experience - it is completely plausible that the incident happened. Although Im sure it wasnt at the Gaveston - that was just the source being clever and thinking they are funny.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 8:05 pm

Excellent article from The Leveller about You Know What

http://theleveller.org/2015/09/british-really-laughing/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 8:10 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
yahyah wrote:Is that why you are taking an almost Toby Youngesque position and defending the boozy toffs at Oxford Tubby ? Because you see us as Corbynistas ?
Nah, the people I'm talking about are all over the place. They've got more than a little UKIP about them. See for instance the slagging off Renzi for being Italian.

Something odd is going on.
Yes. Change.

Have we had this? http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/09/21/ ... -guardian/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Red Neoliberals: How Corbyn’s Victory Unmasked Britain’s Guardian

The reality is that Corbyn poses a very serious challenge to supposedly liberal-left media like the Guardian and the Observer, which is why they hoped to ensure his candidacy was still-born and why, now he is leader, they are caught in a terrible dilemma.

While the Guardian and Observer market themselves as committed to justice and equality, but do nothing to bring them about apart from promoting tinkering with the present, hugely unjust, global neoliberal order, Corbyn’s rhetoric suggests that the apple cart needs upending.

If it achieves nothing else, Corbyn’s campaign has highlighted a truth about the existing British political system: that, at least since the time of Tony Blair, the country’s two major parliamentary parties have been equally committed to upholding neoliberalism. The Blue Neoliberal Party (the Conservatives) and the Red Neoliberal Party (Labour) mark the short horizon of current British politics. You can have either hardcore neoliberalism or slightly more softcore neoliberalism.

That's a different point- though given the Guardian's treatment of Ed Miliband, it's not all that much of a surprise.

As I say, it's like Cybernatters. It's uber-tribal, devoid of much interest of context or accuracy. They spend as much time talking about the media as policy.

I know long time Corbyn supporters. They don't sound anything like the people I'm talking about.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 8:26 pm

citizenJA wrote:
"The price of good quality English farmland has doubled over the past five years, making it the most expensive in the world and offering a better return than prime London property, the FTSE 100 or gold.

According to agents Knight Frank demand from wealthy private individuals as well as pension funds, has driven up the average price for an acre of “investment grade” English farmland (large plots with economies of scale) to £12,500, up 100% since 2010. In comparison, the price of luxury London homes has risen 42% over the same period, the FTSE 100 has increased 33%, while gold has dropped 10%. Many recent buyers of prime farmland are lifestyle buyers, often London financiers, for whom farming can be more of a hobby than about making the land pay its way."

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/s ... five-years" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm not happy about this.
It's like a game being made of a resource everyone needs to live.
Of course, I'm including housing too though arable farmland is used to farm, to grow food.
The purpose of each extraordinarily high-priced necessity is different, but essential.
Price of an acre of ‘investment grade’ farmland, 2015

England: £12,500
New Zealand: £5,983
Argentina: £4,510
France: £4,492
US: £4,470
Brazil: £2,390
Zambia: £1,830
Romania: £1,460
Australia: £830
Canada: £800
Russia: £490

Source: Knight Frank

Why are pension funds buying farming land in this market? That doesn't make sense to me.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 8:27 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
yahyah wrote:Is that why you are taking an almost Toby Youngesque position and defending the boozy toffs at Oxford Tubby ? Because you see us as Corbynistas ?
Nah, the people I'm talking about are all over the place. They've got more than a little UKIP about them. See for instance the slagging off Renzi for being Italian.

Something odd is going on.
Yes. Change.

Have we had this? http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/09/21/ ... -guardian/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Red Neoliberals: How Corbyn’s Victory Unmasked Britain’s Guardian

The reality is that Corbyn poses a very serious challenge to supposedly liberal-left media like the Guardian and the Observer, which is why they hoped to ensure his candidacy was still-born and why, now he is leader, they are caught in a terrible dilemma.

While the Guardian and Observer market themselves as committed to justice and equality, but do nothing to bring them about apart from promoting tinkering with the present, hugely unjust, global neoliberal order, Corbyn’s rhetoric suggests that the apple cart needs upending.

If it achieves nothing else, Corbyn’s campaign has highlighted a truth about the existing British political system: that, at least since the time of Tony Blair, the country’s two major parliamentary parties have been equally committed to upholding neoliberalism. The Blue Neoliberal Party (the Conservatives) and the Red Neoliberal Party (Labour) mark the short horizon of current British politics. You can have either hardcore neoliberalism or slightly more softcore neoliberalism.

(my bold)

I've read this too and I'm glad you've brought it up.
I'm not satisfied with it's generalisations.
Jeremy Corbyn has been a Labour party MP for Islington North since June 1983.
He never quit Labour and I'm glad about that.
Is Corbyn a 'Red Neoliberal (Labour)', too then, is he?
Is he 'slightly more softcore neoliberalism'?
Of course he's not and a lot of good Labour members and MPs aren't either.
I'm not suggesting you're doing this, RobertSnozers, nor anyone else here when I write that I'm offended by the continual placing of the Labour party and people in the same category with Tories (Labour are slightly less horrid).
Labour are not Tories.
There is no party like the Tories in the UK.
They are their own vile political party, Tories.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 8:31 pm

danesclose wrote:Excellent article from The Leveller about You Know What

http://theleveller.org/2015/09/british-really-laughing/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Outstanding!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 8:37 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
"The price of good quality English farmland has doubled over the past five years, making it the most expensive in the world and offering a better return than prime London property, the FTSE 100 or gold.

According to agents Knight Frank demand from wealthy private individuals as well as pension funds, has driven up the average price for an acre of “investment grade” English farmland (large plots with economies of scale) to £12,500, up 100% since 2010. In comparison, the price of luxury London homes has risen 42% over the same period, the FTSE 100 has increased 33%, while gold has dropped 10%. Many recent buyers of prime farmland are lifestyle buyers, often London financiers, for whom farming can be more of a hobby than about making the land pay its way."

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/s ... five-years" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm not happy about this.
It's like a game being made of a resource everyone needs to live.
Of course, I'm including housing too though arable farmland is used to farm, to grow food.
The purpose of each extraordinarily high-priced necessity is different, but essential.
Price of an acre of ‘investment grade’ farmland, 2015

England: £12,500
New Zealand: £5,983
Argentina: £4,510
France: £4,492
US: £4,470
Brazil: £2,390
Zambia: £1,830
Romania: £1,460
Australia: £830
Canada: £800
Russia: £490

Source: Knight Frank
Why are pension funds buying farming land in this market? That doesn't make sense to me.

It's the only thing that does make sense.
Pension funds invested in UK prosperity generation endeavours are sane.
However, the financial sector is currently bent with artificially inflated values on land and housing.
Land and housing are valuable investments, long-term, sustaining investments - banks have absurd values attached to these assets due to debt creation capability they enjoy courtesy of the largess of UK government.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 8:42 pm

Richard Howitt MEP ‏@richardhowitt 7h7 hours ago
I won't ever politicise @RSPCA_official but as Vice-Pres I do strongly defend its right to prosecute animal cruelty http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34314004" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Juliet Pratt ‏@julietcissbury 7h7 hours ago
@richardhowitt @rspca_official Of course animal cruelty should be grounds for prosecution. It's totally unacceptable

angela smith retweeted
RSPCA ‏@RSPCA_official 4h4 hours ago
@julietcissbury If legislation to protect animals is to be effective, it must be adequately enforced - Richard Martin 1822. Co-founder RSPCA

This is all part of the push by groups such as Countryside Alliance etc wanting to undermine those organisations working to uphold and improve animals rights and protections. Can't have these big organisations that have so much public support and stand in the way of what they want to do.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 8:57 pm

Ed Davey likens Tory housing sell-off to Mugabe's land reform
Former Lib Dem minister says allowing purchase of housing association homes reminds him of Zimbabwean farmers being kicked off their land
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... and-reform" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

... “The expropriation is analogous,” he said. “I don’t know why there’s not more outcry amongst the Tories about this. I just think it’s a completely ridiculous policy ... you can argue about the right to buy a council house, as it is state money, but there’s something deeply wrong about selling off somebody else’s assets.”

Davey was speaking ahead of leader Tim Farron’s keynote speech at the party’s annual conference in Bournemouth on Wednesday, in which he is expected to confirm that the Lib Dems will oppose the sell-off of housing association homes...

... In his speech to Lib Dem members on Wednesday, Farron will say: “Housing is the biggest single issue that politicians don’t talk about. Well, we are going to talk about it, campaign on it, go on and on and on about it, and make a difference to the millions who have been ignored.”

“Communities up and down this country have spent 25 years building housing association homes, picking up the pieces of Mrs Thatcher’s destruction of council housing, and we will not allow David Cameron to destroy that work too.”

A party spokesperson confirmed the Lib Dems would be prepared to use their disproportionate power in the Lords to attempt to block the government’s proposed sell-off of housing association homes...

Glad Corbyn recognised very early on how important housing is and has made it his number one priority. If the Lib Dems are prepared to use the Lords to vote this govt bill down - and Labour will too I presume - we could be in for an interesting time ahead. The Tories should be defeated on this ... it's such bad policy.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 9:17 pm

yahyah wrote:& my brother-in-law was a Lib Dem voter for years.
He phoned us to update us on his health this afternoon, and said he thinks Corbyn is a straight talker and has been impressed by what he's heard.

An unlikely Corbynista !

edited to add: Anecdotal I know, but enough anecdotes and it ends up as evidence

I'm not so sure about unlikely though, yahyah. It's omly the msm and right-wingers that call him hard-left.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 9:36 pm

Six of the best Reading butchers shops - for pig's heads or anything else

A list of the best meat merchants in and around Reading to help you to avoid making a pig's ear of your next purchase

http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/readin ... s-10106627" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 9:39 pm

danesclose wrote:Excellent article from The Leveller about You Know What

http://theleveller.org/2015/09/british-really-laughing/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Laughing I may be, danesclose, but who shall join me in giving Dave a good kicking. 'And thankyou, Tem, after Tubby's making excuses for them, you'd almost think he had something to hide himself the manner in which he has risen to their defence. Some things I know, unfortunately I am not always in such a position to clarify.

Regarding Cameron I do not doubt a single word. As for getting away with it... I wouldn't be entirely surprised. More's the pity. You do have to give him one thing however. His fucking thick skin to even show his face, let alone not to think anything wrong with his actions. I call it fucking ignorant, no wonder he still believes in himself... and any others in whom he puts his trust.

Hope this posts and/or is vaguely readable given how hung or frozen things seem.

Edit: replaced 'him' with 'Dave' for clarity.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 9:40 pm

utopiandreams wrote:
yahyah wrote:& my brother-in-law was a Lib Dem voter for years.
He phoned us to update us on his health this afternoon, and said he thinks Corbyn is a straight talker and has been impressed by what he's heard.

An unlikely Corbynista !

edited to add: Anecdotal I know, but enough anecdotes and it ends up as evidence
I'm not so sure about unlikely though, yahyah. It's omly the msm and right-wingers that call him hard-left.

I am neither the MSM or a right winger and I view Corbyn as hard left.

He is miles to the left of the moderate John Smith, Neil Kinnock, Ed Miliband wing of the party. His economic policies sound great but will collapse under any serious scrutiny (add up the costs, fall billions short in the tax gap and see what happens). This is why he might be popular with the left but I can't see him getting enough trust to be elected as PM, and certainly not with his current shadow chancellor.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 9:51 pm

angela smith ‏@angelasmithmp 14m14 minutes ago
Bay City Rollers announce reunion
Blast from the past ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-34323112" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

The 'musical' torture theme of the week continues ....

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 9:53 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
angela smith ‏@angelasmithmp 14m14 minutes ago
Bay City Rollers announce reunion
Blast from the past ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-34323112" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
The 'musical' torture theme of the week continues ....

You mean they are actually a real band? I just assumed it was a mockumentary.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 10:17 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:... He is miles to the left of the moderate John Smith, Neil Kinnock, Ed Miliband wing of the party. His economic policies sound great but will collapse under any serious scrutiny (add up the costs, fall billions short in the tax gap and see what happens). This is why he might be popular with the left but I can't see him getting enough trust to be elected as PM, and certainly not with his current shadow chancellor.

I'm not sure of your age, TE, but my own position may be a reflection of the typical Corbyn supporter, i.e. either getting on a bit or younger. Britain as a whole has drifted far to the right of where it once were. As for Jeremy himself, yeah he does speak in idealistic terms and is not always as pragmatic as should be, however he does not talk in dictatorial terms and seems far more conducive to more consensual views. Nonetheless this does not include giving even more ground to neoliberalism or whatever term you wish and to the Tories, hence his reaching out to all on the left as far as I can tell.

I may be rambling or not expressing myself clearly as I'm feeling especially tired. Funnily enough I was babysitting earlier and got quite an attack of the yawns. So concerned was little one that she insisted on my resting my head on a cushion and covered me with a little blanket; the cushion, or pillow as she called it, was especially important. Bless her little cotton socks, if that be what they were...

Several moments later.. "Time to wake up! The sun is shining." How could I refuse? This was repeated three or four times until I had stopped my yawns. Then of course it were more fun and games, not before she'd offered to turn the telly on though, which I graciously declined. One, just one strawberry each seemed a much better idea. Wouldn't have wanted to put her off her tea now, would I?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 10:29 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
There's a difference between horridness and political philosophy. I cannot accept that Labour from 1994 to 2010 did not basically accept the neoliberal ideas of deregulation, privatisation and encouraging free trade that had been put in place under Thatcher and Major. The privatisation actually continued with things like the Defence Evaluation and Research Agency, not to mention the extension of PFI and ISTCs into the NHS, Atos into the DWP etc. Technically, the Blair and Brown governments didn't pursue the state-shrinkage and reduction of spending generally called for by neoliberalism, but then neither did Thatcher or Major. And frankly, Cameron and Osborne haven't gone as hard on this as they might - most of their focus has been on transferring state assets to private hands.

There are big differences, of course. Labour looked after the most vulnerable - the Tories are punishing the most vulnerable. Labour built up the NHS - the Tories are tearing it down. Essentially, Labour let big business and the financial sector do what it wanted, and used the proceeds of the tax accrued to do good things. But the philosophy was neoliberal. Business was allowed to pay less tax than perhaps it might have as long as there was still a decent amount coming in. The financial sector was left to pursue its ridiculous, socially useless practices as long as the treasury got its cut. And it all went swimmingly until the house of cards fell over.

Sure there were Labour MPs that didn't accept it. There were Tories too, though precious few of them remain. But the overall philosophy was still neoliberal. Why do you think the Blairites hate Corbyn so much?

I think that's mistaken. Productivity improved and unemployment fell, and hundreds of thousands of working people moved to Britain.

There was much more going on than a finance boom- finance accounted for 14% of the improvement in productivity. Throw in the Crash as well, the record still isn't bad. We can definitely improve on regulation of investment banks but even there, how much of it was international and how much domestic? As we always say, Gordo must have been quite something bringing down banks in Britain, Ireland, America, Iceland, Spain...

And as you say, investment got done. Does Corbyn produce the growth that paid for that? Lots of the left now talk about "zero growth". I'm not clear where Corbyn stands.

I don't he's answered hard political questions yet, as I've said before. But I've been more impressed than I thought I'd be so far, even if I wish he'd avoid obvious stuff like not singing the national anthem the first time he appears in an official capacity.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 10:33 pm

citizenJA wrote: It's the only thing that does make sense.
Pension funds invested in UK prosperity generation endeavours are sane.
However, the financial sector is currently bent with artificially inflated values on land and housing.
Land and housing are valuable investments, long-term, sustaining investments - banks have absurd values attached to these assets due to debt creation capability they enjoy courtesy of the largess of UK government.

Pension funds are a part of the financial sector. They ought to be about long-term, stable returns, as you say. Land and farming should be that, but I can't see the returns are high enough for what they must be paying.

A lot was made of them investing in UK infrastructure by Osborne a while ago. I'd expect them to do more that sort of thing. And it ought not to require Osborne to do anything.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 10:39 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
utopiandreams wrote:
yahyah wrote:& my brother-in-law was a Lib Dem voter for years.
He phoned us to update us on his health this afternoon, and said he thinks Corbyn is a straight talker and has been impressed by what he's heard.

An unlikely Corbynista !

edited to add: Anecdotal I know, but enough anecdotes and it ends up as evidence
I'm not so sure about unlikely though, yahyah. It's omly the msm and right-wingers that call him hard-left.
I am neither the MSM or a right winger and I view Corbyn as hard left.

He is miles to the left of the moderate John Smith, Neil Kinnock, Ed Miliband wing of the party. His economic policies sound great but will collapse under any serious scrutiny (add up the costs, fall billions short in the tax gap and see what happens). This is why he might be popular with the left but I can't see him getting enough trust to be elected as PM, and certainly not with his current shadow chancellor.

I do.

In other news, unbelievable about VW, eh?
The stench of idiot trolls polluting the threads over yonder takes what clear air I've left right the hell out of me.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 10:40 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:... You mean they are actually a real band? I just assumed it was a mockumentary.

Well Rod Stewart got away with it for bloody ages, didn't he, TE?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 10:45 pm

A Treasury spokesperson said "We've learned there's no shortcut to fixing the public finances to provide economic security for working people".

FFS

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 10:46 pm

utopiandreams wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:... You mean they are actually a real band? I just assumed it was a mockumentary.
Well Rod Stewart got away with it for bloody ages, didn't he, TE?

What?????!!!!!

You mean he is real as well. Dear God, next you will be telling me Boris Johnson isn't an animated life size Gonk doll.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 10:47 pm

On a different subject, looking at what Roger linked to yesterday.

The West London Free School staff page.

http://www.westlondonfreeschool.co.uk/Teacher-profiles/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lots of the staff there look very, I don't know, like student CV hacks. It's all "X set up this". Are they actually any good at teaching? I'm reminded a bit of the criticism made that they'd over prioritized extra-curricular stuff.

L Matthews is one of those who tried to set up a free school in Oxford. It says she did a couple of years in Burnley and set up a Latin club and something with the football club. How did she find teaching in Burnley at a national challenge school?

Perhaps we might infer from the fact she decamped to Tobes' gerrymandered plaything in West London, she didn't like it all that much. No problem, different schools suit different people, but that she nearly got to set up her own school worries me a lot. It's almost like putting in the hard yards is too boring. (Outside of Oxford, where there was another application to set up a free school from people who already ran a converter academy, she'd probably have got her gig.)

Gove used to rhapsodize about "the best young teachers we've ever had". When I was at Oxford, hardly anyone wanted to be teachers. Those who did weren't overtly "ambitious", like this new breed seem to be. It would be all about the teaching, and they'd be happy to take their time getting that right. From what I've heard about them, they've all done well with their teaching.

There's something else going on with (some) young teachers now. Not sure it's healthy.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 10:59 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Christopher Hope retweeted
Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft 2h2 hours ago
Good to see PM retains his sense of humour. We must have the same doctor. I had the same in 2010 when the PM reneged http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-34328067" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
No it's not just handbags ... more like Gladstone bags filled with bricks.

Having just followed the Beeb link, rr2, I'm rather inclined to disagree thinking more along the lines of his Mummy's handbags. Truth is at close quarters she could pack a much harder punch than Dave and since he wishes to talk pricks, I very much doubt his is larger than Maggie's.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 11:22 pm

Simon Danczuk ‏@SimonDanczuk 47m47 minutes ago
Corbyn purge of moderates has started, claims Labour MP Simon Danczuk http://dailym.ai/1QWSuPA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; via @MailOnline

I don't think I need to actually read it - that self publication tweet seems to summarise his line.

As far as I know Corbyn is not about 'purging' anyone or any group.

From what I have read elsewhere the problems in his own backyard seem to have little or nothing to do with anything Corbyn - they are pretty local.

Is he being paid for this latest article I wonder?

Hobiejoe · Post by **Hobiejoe** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 11:26 pm

Oh my.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ce-cartoon

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 11:26 pm

It's that time of night again ...

: Cameron Confidential Day Three.jpg (75.7 KiB) Viewed 8441 times

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 11:28 pm

Hobiejoe wrote:Oh my.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ce-cartoon

There's just that little pause - before it clicks in your mind - and then - yeah. Oh my.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 11:31 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Simon Danczuk ‏@SimonDanczuk 47m47 minutes ago
Corbyn purge of moderates has started, claims Labour MP Simon Danczuk http://dailym.ai/1QWSuPA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; via @MailOnline
I don't think I need to actually read it - that self publication tweet seems to summarise his line.

As far as I know Corbyn is not about 'purging' anyone or any group.

From what I have read elsewhere the problems in his own backyard seem to have little or nothing to do with anything Corbyn - they are pretty local.

Is he being paid for this latest article I wonder?

This is just the fall out from the muppets in the neighbouring constituencies brain dead motion to the NEC. Danczuk is over-reacting as per usual. Not sure he is claiming any of this is at the behest of Corbyn.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 11:33 pm

Labour Luvvie to thwart Johnson? Since when has Ken Livingstone been a luvvy?

G

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 11:34 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Simon Danczuk ‏@SimonDanczuk 47m47 minutes ago
Corbyn purge of moderates has started, claims Labour MP Simon Danczuk http://dailym.ai/1QWSuPA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; via @MailOnline
I don't think I need to actually read it - that self publication tweet seems to summarise his line.

As far as I know Corbyn is not about 'purging' anyone or any group.

From what I have read elsewhere the problems in his own backyard seem to have little or nothing to do with anything Corbyn - they are pretty local.

Is he being paid for this latest article I wonder?
This is just the fall out from the muppets in the neighbouring constituencies brain dead motion to the NEC. Danczuk is over-reacting as per usual. Not sure he is claiming any of this is at the behest of Corbyn.

Why's he tweeting out that headline then?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 11:40 pm

Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 11:40 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: I don't think I need to actually read it - that self publication tweet seems to summarise his line.

As far as I know Corbyn is not about 'purging' anyone or any group.

From what I have read elsewhere the problems in his own backyard seem to have little or nothing to do with anything Corbyn - they are pretty local.

Is he being paid for this latest article I wonder?
This is just the fall out from the muppets in the neighbouring constituencies brain dead motion to the NEC. Danczuk is over-reacting as per usual. Not sure he is claiming any of this is at the behest of Corbyn.
Why's he tweeting out that headline then?

He is tweeting the Mail headline, but the substance of what he has actually said is this.

Simon Danczuk said a ‘concerted effort’ by the new leader’s far-left supporters had now begun to ‘silence’ people like him and ‘drum’ them out of the party.

Which is different from the implication in the headline. He probably isn't smart enough to just link to the story.

Danczuk unusually has a point, and the Daily Mail is only too happy to put its own spin on it.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 11:51 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote: This is just the fall out from the muppets in the neighbouring constituencies brain dead motion to the NEC. Danczuk is over-reacting as per usual. Not sure he is claiming any of this is at the behest of Corbyn.
Why's he tweeting out that headline then?
He is tweeting the Mail headline, but the substance of what he has actually said is this.

Simon Danczuk said a ‘concerted effort’ by the new leader’s far-left supporters had now begun to ‘silence’ people like him and ‘drum’ them out of the party.
Which is different from the implication in the headline. He probably isn't smart enough to just link to the story.

Danczuk unusually has a point, and the Daily Mail is only too happy to put its own spin on it.

Don't buy it, TE. According to the reports in MEN and Rochdale online the 'concerted effort' seems to have been prompted by / in response to the actions of someone close to Danczuk. How does that justify qualifying the people who want an investigation of that as the 'new leader's far-left supporters' - or their motive being to want to silence people 'like him'?

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 22 Sep, 2015 11:58 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: Why's he tweeting out that headline then?
He is tweeting the Mail headline, but the substance of what he has actually said is this.

Simon Danczuk said a ‘concerted effort’ by the new leader’s far-left supporters had now begun to ‘silence’ people like him and ‘drum’ them out of the party.
Which is different from the implication in the headline. He probably isn't smart enough to just link to the story.

Danczuk unusually has a point, and the Daily Mail is only too happy to put its own spin on it.
Don't buy it, TE. According to the reports in MEN and Rochdale online the 'concerted effort' seems to have been prompted by / in response to the actions of someone close to Danczuk. How does that justify qualifying the people who want an investigation of that as the 'new leader's far-left supporters' - or their motive being to want to silence people 'like him'?

Because if you are Danczuk you see everything as a far left conspiracy.

The smart response to all this is for Corbyn to loudly read the riot act to the M&H constituency and to tell them to stop playing silly buggers or face disciplinary action.

Stops the agitators, asserts his leadership credentials, reassures the centre and makes Danczuk look silly.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 23 Sep, 2015 12:11 am

Hadn't seen this from a couple of days ago.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... -that-open" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Routemaster buses in London to be refitted with windows that open
Boris Johnson chided by assembly members for ordering fleet of new vehicles with design that left passengers suffering temperatures of 30C and above

This isn't half the problem with them. They're having to refit them so that they don't have the rear platform on them, which was included just because Routemasters used to have them.

This is all on top of a cost per bus of something like £50k over and above a better performing off the peg one. And they probably will be scrapped when their finished in London- regular London buses are "cascaded" to routes outside London, with less intensive routes, and go on to do years more service.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Wed 23 Sep, 2015 12:18 am

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Hadn't seen this from a couple of days ago.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... -that-open" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Routemaster buses in London to be refitted with windows that open
Boris Johnson chided by assembly members for ordering fleet of new vehicles with design that left passengers suffering temperatures of 30C and above
This isn't half the problem with them. They're having to refit them so that they don't have the rear platform on them, which was included just because Routemasters used to have them.

This is all on top of a cost per bus of something like £50k over and above a better performing off the peg one. And they probably will be scrapped when their finished in London- regular London buses are "cascaded" to routes outside London, with less intensive routes, and go on to do years more service.

The man was a total idiot and tax payers pick up the bill. Politicians shouldn't micromanage stuff they don't understand, see Cameron and Libya, Boris and busses and as an extreme example Hitler and the Russian front.

ChrisDean · Post by **ChrisDean** » Wed 23 Sep, 2015 12:21 am

@HindleA

Thinking of you.