Monday 11th January 2016

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 3:36 pm

refitman wrote:Karl Turner has been appointed Shadow AG.

He's not a woman. The rest is irrelevant.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 3:41 pm

PorFavor wrote:@ ephemerid

I'm not looking at the EU in terms of David Cameron personally. In many respects he is the least of our worries with regard to the Conservatives.

And as for his dieing (or not, as it turns out) - can you imagine the sympathy boost that would engender? Doesn't bear thinking about. In that spirit, I kind of wish that the Quing would live forever. It was bad enough when her mother died . . . . (Although we only have to keep DC alive whilst he's in office, I suppose.)

I nearly agree with you saying that OGRPPFGTCC is the least of our worries - but...... for some inexplicable reason, he always somehow manages to top polls as the "most prime ministerial" etc. and he is, again inexplicably to me, popular and regarded as a "moderniser"

Despite leading the most vicious, mendacious, right-wing government(s) for decades, he somehow gets away with appearing almost normal - and that's what makes him so dangerous. People actually like him. Waverers may well vote for the Tories while he stays, when they wouldn't for Osborne or one of the others. He somehow manages to put a "nice" face on the hideous policies he supports.

This year is going to be wall-to-wall Brenda. 90 years - she's done some sterling service, but they hype's going to be horrific.
I hope she carries on a while. The last thing I'd want to see is the serious issues facing this country being drowned out in a tsunami of grief.

I will confess, Por Favor, when I see these Tory prats out and about, that we had a latter-day equivalent of the "grassy knoll".....

Obviously, I don't really wish anyone dead - but there is a very cold place in my heart reserved for people who will happily allow seriously ill people to die with no support, kill themselves rather than face destitution, collapse and succumb to chronic disease when all they needed was a bit of food......then deny it all and tell the populace that this is all for their own good.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 3:44 pm

She was seemingly due to be part of a Labour review commission into child poverty ,but it was in the discussion stages and the Commission hasn't actually been set up.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 3:49 pm

FWIW I to do not want anybody dead,I want the bastards to be held to account.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 3:52 pm

First

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 3:53 pm

Surprised to see so much Brexiting on here.

Britain's unusual in having such a big finance sector. I'd be happy to see it shrink over time, and think that it will do inside the EU- Angie Merkel would love some of those high value exports (13% of our exports).

But it doesn't follow that you get more manufacturing with less finance. France has about the same share of manufacturing in its GDP we do, without having as big a City.

If Britain leaves, Cameron probably goes, they change leader and carry on. If you think Cameron's terms in the EU are bad, what do you think the ones he'll push for out of it?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 3:58 pm

Predicted 2015 GDP growth by country.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... h-disaster" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Corbynite fave Venezuela is stone last. Probably Obama's fault.

Whoops! It's 2016. So predictions. But 2 very bad years already.

I'm not being distracting from the Tories here. I think it's stuff like this is very relevant to why lots of people who are genuinely moderate think Corbyn is no good.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 3:59 pm

Ian DuntVerified account
‏@IanDunt

Our interview with John McDonnell: "This isn't an attack on the BBC. A private company makes the Politics programme"

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... estroy-jer

Edited to add because I forgot:

Contrary to the comments made above by the shadow chancellor, Politics.co.uk can confirm that the Daily Politics is not produced by a private firm but in-house by the BBC.

Post by **refitman** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 4:02 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Ian DuntVerified account
‏@IanDunt

Our interview with John McDonnell: "This isn't an attack on the BBC. A private company makes the Politics programme"

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... estroy-jer

Lots of BBC programs are "outsourced" to external production company (it will say "this was an X production for the BBC" at the end).

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 4:02 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Ian DuntVerified account
‏@IanDunt

Our interview with John McDonnell: "This isn't an attack on the BBC. A private company makes the Politics programme"

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... estroy-jer

Think that's a red herring. Of course it's an attack on the BBC- they're answerable for it.

I think it's an overcooked attack- Doughty did nothing he didn't want to. There are much better points to make about BBC bias- Tom Pride did re subjects of tweets.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 4:18 pm

Hadn't seen this.

Corbyn outlined his thinking in a BBC Radio 4 interview in which he initially declined to say whether he would authorise a drone strike targeting the British member of Islamic State who directed the murder of five alleged spies in a propaganda video.

The Labour leader told the Today programme: “I think that is a hypothetical question. You have to look at the sources of the support of Isil, you have to look at the way it gets its money, the way it gets its weapons, the way it gets its arms. I would want to see the evidence of it first obviously. But Isil haven’t come from nowhere, they have got a great deal of money from somewhere, they are selling oil to somebody else. They are very well financed and very well armed.”

Pressed again about whether he would approve a drone strike if it was legal, Corbyn indicated he might be prepared to do so if a series of tests were met. “I would want to know what the evidence is, what difference it would make by doing that, what the chances were of capturing somebody – I suspect probably very, very low in those circumstances – so that action could be taken.”

Perfectly good answer in the end, I think.

Not sure why he didn't give it first time.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 4:28 pm

PorFavor wrote:
refitman wrote:Karl Turner has been appointed Shadow AG.
He's not a woman. The rest is irrelevant.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 4:34 pm

Cameron's rules of engagement for his ministers and civil servants during the EU referendum don't seem to be going down well ... ministers who want Brexit won't be allowed to criticise his 'successful' renegotiation .... civil servants will be expected to support Cam's campaign and do it on government time.

Can see this causing waves - it'll be a choppy Channel tonight.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 4:35 pm

PorFavor wrote:
refitman wrote:Karl Turner has been appointed Shadow AG.
He's not a woman. The rest is irrelevant.

You are Jesse Phillips and I claim my £5

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 4:36 pm

ohsocynical wrote:@RobertSnozers:

It would mean we'd have to rebalance the economy in favour of manufacturing, and it would cause great damage to the Tories' power base. Yet another reason to vote No in my book, and they are beginning to stack up...
But would they? For a start they're aiming for permanent Cons government in order to run the country how they want, and we know already to our cost it's not what's best for the country as a whole.

Secondly, even if they said they would rebalance in favour of manufacturing we know they are the most inept bunch there has ever been in government. I'm doubtful that attempt would get off the ground.

And thirdly, our ruling elite have enough wealth that if things got really bad they'd bugger off abroad, or sit back and live, very nicely thank you, on their ill gotten gains.

If they did manage to get UK plc off the ground and making things again, it won't do us much good.
A malnourished, dispirited workforce scared of losing the low paid pathetic job they might have; in poor health, with a shorter life span, and living in caravan parks because there's not enough housing, provides a compliant, cheap labour pool. With the added bonus of all workers rights removed, it's exactly what the big Corporations who are beginning to run the country want.

I voted against joining back in the seventies, but I'm not so sure we should pull out now. A inward looking, Conservative owned and run country isn't what I want for my grandchildren.

I'd not seen your post until now, Ohso, thank you for it, I've thought the same.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 4:39 pm

Sam Coates Times ‏@SamCoatesTimes 1m1 minute ago
Environment Agency Chairman Sir Philip Dilley has resigned today https://www.gov.uk/government/news/envi ... an-resigns" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

I'm sure he'll be hopping on a plane to Barbados as soon as he can.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 4:41 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Sam Coates Times ‏@SamCoatesTimes 1m1 minute ago
Environment Agency Chairman Sir Philip Dilley has resigned today https://www.gov.uk/government/news/envi ... an-resigns" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
I'm sure he'll be hopping on a plane to Barbados as soon as he can.

I'm surprised.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 4:43 pm

Rowena Mason ‏@rowenamason 2m2 minutes ago
Philip Dilley has resigns from Environment Agency as expectations for role have expanded "requiring him to be available at short notice"

FFS.

This is the man who took on the job saying he would be at any environmental emergency like a shot after his predecessor Chris Smith was pilloried for not getting to the floods soon enough.

These people are brazen asses.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 4:48 pm

stellacreasy ‏@stellacreasy 3m3 minutes ago
Bonkers logic from Tory MPs that getting rid of nursing bursaries will make it possible 4 more people to train to be a nurse #BursaryOrBust

stellacreasy ‏@stellacreasy 42s42 seconds ago
Given already shortage of p’ple training removing bursaries will lead 2 bigger shortage- debt not cost stopping learning #BursaryOrBust

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 5:04 pm

Radio Four's Today programme to become a TV show in bid to attract a new army of younger online fans
Former Today presenter James Naughtie to host TV show Meet The Author
Today will become a multimedia operation and release more videos online
Current presenter Nick Robinson has more than 567,000 Twitter followers
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ghtie.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 5:07 pm

I'm not a Facebook member, but have just been looking at Ceredigion Labour's page.
Seems to be more activity on it recently, maybe a reflection of the increase in local membership.

This was one of the pics on an Aberystwyth Uni Labour students link:

Look forward to hearing more on that, hopefully Carwyn will have some facts and figures for his debate with Farage tonight.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 5:10 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Ian DuntVerified account
‏@IanDunt

Our interview with John McDonnell: "This isn't an attack on the BBC. A private company makes the Politics programme"

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... estroy-jer

Think that's a red herring. Of course it's an attack on the BBC- they're answerable for it.

I think it's an overcooked attack- Doughty did nothing he didn't want to. There are much better points to make about BBC bias- Tom Pride did re subjects of tweets.

Doughty might have wanted to screw Corbyn over by resigning just as PMQs started, but that doesn't make it acceptable for the BBC to help him. Doughty didn't have a duty to be impartial, but the Daily Politics team did. How did Cameron know about the resignation before Corbyn, that's what the complaint hinges on. If it is ever proven that Cameron was tipped off while Corbyn was deliberately kept in the dark, I think the BBC could and should be in a lot of trouble. If the BBC hadn't interferred Doughty's resignation would have panned out differently and had a different impact. Personally I think it's an easier infringement to prove than bias in opinion and commentary which is subjective and hard to pin down

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 5:11 pm

Has anyone seen any mention of the Carwyn/Farage debate in the media ?
Suppose the Guardian won't bother, Wales is a bit off the agenda for them.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 5:16 pm

HindleA wrote:First

And then?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 5:20 pm

Willow904 wrote:Doughty might have wanted to screw Corbyn over by resigning just as PMQs started, but that doesn't make it acceptable for the BBC to help him. Doughty didn't have a duty to be impartial, but the Daily Politics team did. How did Cameron know about the resignation before Corbyn, that's what the complaint hinges on. If it is ever proven that Cameron was tipped off while Corbyn was deliberately kept in the dark, I think the BBC could and should be in a lot of trouble. If the BBC hadn't interferred Doughty's resignation would have panned out differently and had a different impact. Personally I think it's an easier infringement to prove than bias in opinion and commentary which is subjective and hard to pin down

If both sides were being fair, Doughty should have sent his email to Corbyn when he'd decided to resign.

The BBC could still have got an exclusive on it and started the show with it at 11:30am.

The fact that neither of these things were done shows that both wanted to deliberately keep Corbyn in the dark. Neither of them come out looking good.

And idea that the complaint is answered by the producer of that very show just shows contempt - Gibb is hardly likely to disagree with his own people. At the very least it ought to have come from James Harding.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 5:22 pm

Tory Housing Transformation Nothing more than another attack on the poorest
https://jaynelinney.wordpress.com/2016/ ... e-poorest/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Very readable blog working from her own experiences.

She's so right to be very worried about the effects of displacement on so many tenants - especially the older tenants who may have lived in their 'sink estate' community for a very long time.

When I was working in East London this was one of the key issues for many older people affected by 'regeneration'.

She also points out that the two redevelopments Cameron praised in his speech only replaced 50% of the previous amount of social housing. Net loss of real affordable homes.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 5:24 pm

Willow904 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Ian DuntVerified account
‏@IanDunt

Our interview with John McDonnell: "This isn't an attack on the BBC. A private company makes the Politics programme"

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... estroy-jer

Think that's a red herring. Of course it's an attack on the BBC- they're answerable for it.

I think it's an overcooked attack- Doughty did nothing he didn't want to. There are much better points to make about BBC bias- Tom Pride did re subjects of tweets.
Doughty might have wanted to screw Corbyn over by resigning just as PMQs started, but that doesn't make it acceptable for the BBC to help him. Doughty didn't have a duty to be impartial, but the Daily Politics team did. How did Cameron know about the resignation before Corbyn, that's what the complaint hinges on. If it is ever proven that Cameron was tipped off while Corbyn was deliberately kept in the dark, I think the BBC could and should be in a lot of trouble. If the BBC hadn't interferred Doughty's resignation would have panned out differently and had a different impact. Personally I think it's an easier infringement to prove than bias in opinion and commentary which is subjective and hard to pin down

The show's producer's political history as a Tory makes it stink all the more.
A sly email, call or text to a Tory contact is all it would have taken.

Wonder if the BBC categorically has denied that any of the production team had any contact with the Tories ?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 5:27 pm

Craig Oliver
ex-BBC Head of News
No 10 Communications chief

Just sayin'...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 5:29 pm

stellacreasy ‏@stellacreasy 42s43 seconds ago
Good 2 hear Tory MP maria Caulfield saying ‘madness’ to say student loan system won’t deter mature nursing students #bursaryorbust

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 5:30 pm

CyberNat Shelley Detlefsen about the death of David Bowie:

''They say he got diagnosed 18 months ago. Maybe unionism gives you cancer?''

'I was actually a big fan..... but I'm a bit sickened to see a bunch of "nationalists" crying like babies over a foreign unionist's death.''

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 5:31 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Craig Oliver
ex-BBC Head of News
No 10 Communications chief

Just sayin'...

Isn't James Harding a Tory boy too ?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 5:37 pm

yahyah wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Craig Oliver
ex-BBC Head of News
No 10 Communications chief

Just sayin'...
Isn't James Harding a Tory boy too ?

ex-editor of The Times.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 5:42 pm

“Moët Medic” Smeared By The Sun Was Actually Volunteering At A Nepal Hospital
http://www.buzzfeed.com/laurasilver/thi ... .teyB6lG8d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 5:50 pm

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1370966 ... onfirm-tax" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Labour Press
Comment on new DWP guidelines that confirm tax credit recipients face being moved onto Universal Credit if there’s a “change in circumstances”

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 6:01 pm

UK visa policy ‘increasing abuse’ of foreign maids, says damning review

Tied visas that restrict domestic workers to one employer and limit their stay in the UK have left women vulnerable to slavery and abuse, review reveals (Guardian)

Edited to add

The link might come in handy, so here's one I prepared earlier -

http://www.theguardian.com/global-devel ... tied-visas

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 6:01 pm

Been moved to tears by the special Radio 4 bit they've just done on Bowie.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 6:07 pm

HuffPost UK ‏@HuffPostUK 14m14 minutes ago
Telegraph bosses install motion censors to monitor journalists at their desks http://huff.to/1RigT5C" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 6:09 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Been moved to tears by the special Radio 4 bit they've just done on Bowie.

I've been in tears on and off since 7am.What a sad day.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 6:15 pm

Legal challenge to Kent grammar ‘expansion’ dropped after information ‘held back’

http://schoolsweek.co.uk/legal-challeng ... held-back/

Two separate groups opposing the government’s decision to allow a Kent grammar school to “expand” have announced today they will not push for a judicial review.

The decision comes days after Schools Week reported the Department for Education (DfE) refused to confirm whether it holds the controversial application from the Weald of Kent grammar to expand on a new site nine miles from its current base.

Comprehensive Future said its decision not to put in a claim for a judicial review by Wednesday’s deadline was due to “information not forthcoming or being unaccountably delayed”.

But a statement released by the group, which campaigns against selection by ability, today read: “Those plans that Comprehensive Future has been allowed to see appear to be highly impracticable and are unlikely to be sustained over the long term but the government has forbidden us to discuss these publicly.

“The absence of official openness throughout this process has made it almost impossible for us to be certain of legally establishing, at this stage, that this is indeed a new school.”

"Most open and transparent government ever". But only sometimes.

That bit about them not allowing to discuss the plans publicly is outrageous. Who do these people think they are?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 6:18 pm

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1370871 ... pplication" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lucy Powell on this

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 6:20 pm

Rebecca wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Been moved to tears by the special Radio 4 bit they've just done on Bowie.
I've been in tears on and off since 7am.What a sad day.

It's the suddenness of it that has made it worse.

I remember when Warren Zevon announced he had cancer - he went on shows, made a final album and died a few days after its release. But this...totally out of the blue.

I'm amazed in this 24/7 media-driven open world that the news didn't leak somehow. Reminds me of his birthday a few years back when the single came out and news of the album - nobody had even any idea that he was back working again.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 6:26 pm

HindleA wrote:http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1370871 ... pplication

Lucy Powell on this

Yes, it was Morgan saying that she based her decision on the paperwork received...and then her department refusing to confirm that they even had such paperwork!

They simply don't care - they don't want anyone to question what they're doing. Arrogance.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 6:31 pm

Willow904 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Ian DuntVerified account
‏@IanDunt

Our interview with John McDonnell: "This isn't an attack on the BBC. A private company makes the Politics programme"

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... estroy-jer

Think that's a red herring. Of course it's an attack on the BBC- they're answerable for it.

I think it's an overcooked attack- Doughty did nothing he didn't want to. There are much better points to make about BBC bias- Tom Pride did re subjects of tweets.
Doughty might have wanted to screw Corbyn over by resigning just as PMQs started, but that doesn't make it acceptable for the BBC to help him. Doughty didn't have a duty to be impartial, but the Daily Politics team did. How did Cameron know about the resignation before Corbyn, that's what the complaint hinges on. If it is ever proven that Cameron was tipped off while Corbyn was deliberately kept in the dark, I think the BBC could and should be in a lot of trouble. If the BBC hadn't interferred Doughty's resignation would have panned out differently and had a different impact. Personally I think it's an easier infringement to prove than bias in opinion and commentary which is subjective and hard to pin down

I don't think it's important really whether the BBC set it up at a time for maximum impact.

Fact is a Labour politician went along with it. Politicians who want to hurt their own side do this. I don't think most people will care about the distinction.

Making a fuss about it is keeping "Labour Shadow Cabinet Divisions Shambles Corbyn" in the news. The last thing anybody should want.

It doesn't have to be bias that you're alleging- even though I just said that it did. There's a trivialization of politics news point. People are interested in stuff like floods more than anonymous briefings. Say that there's too much with everybody, with the reporting of the government too. Lots of Tories will agree.

I think there's bias too, and I don't know what you do about that.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 6:32 pm

Radio 2 devoting most of evening to Bowie,for those interested.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 6:33 pm

yahyah wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote: Think that's a red herring. Of course it's an attack on the BBC- they're answerable for it.

I think it's an overcooked attack- Doughty did nothing he didn't want to. There are much better points to make about BBC bias- Tom Pride did re subjects of tweets.
Doughty might have wanted to screw Corbyn over by resigning just as PMQs started, but that doesn't make it acceptable for the BBC to help him. Doughty didn't have a duty to be impartial, but the Daily Politics team did. How did Cameron know about the resignation before Corbyn, that's what the complaint hinges on. If it is ever proven that Cameron was tipped off while Corbyn was deliberately kept in the dark, I think the BBC could and should be in a lot of trouble. If the BBC hadn't interferred Doughty's resignation would have panned out differently and had a different impact. Personally I think it's an easier infringement to prove than bias in opinion and commentary which is subjective and hard to pin down

The show's producer's political history as a Tory makes it stink all the more.
A sly email, call or text to a Tory contact is all it would have taken.

Wonder if the BBC categorically has denied that any of the production team had any contact with the Tories ?

That's a good question.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 6:36 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Surprised to see so much Brexiting on here.

Britain's unusual in having such a big finance sector. I'd be happy to see it shrink over time, and think that it will do inside the EU- Angie Merkel would love some of those high value exports (13% of our exports).

But it doesn't follow that you get more manufacturing with less finance. France has about the same share of manufacturing in its GDP we do, without having as big a City.

If Britain leaves, Cameron probably goes, they change leader and carry on. If you think Cameron's terms in the EU are bad, what do you think the ones he'll push for out of it?

Just to clarify my point here.

Brexit is Cameron or Johnson or Osborne with a free hand to negotiate the relationship with rEU. They're likely to prioritize exactly the stuff you don't like about the UK. It'll be freedom from this, freedom from that.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 6:44 pm

'Murderer!' - Iain Duncan Smith confronted by furious protest as he visits Job Centre

The work and pensions secretary was shouted down by people demonstrating against his handling of disability benefits

Demonstrators hurled abuse at the Work and Pensions as he visited Peckham Job Centre, after it was revealed one in ten so-called 'fit for work' assessments for sickness and disability benefit claimants was performed inadequately.

Mr Duncan Smith held up a copy of the Daily Mail to shield his face, as his blacked out Range Rover was blocked in the driveway of the centre by the pack of angry activists.

They shouted "scumbag" and "murderer of disabled people" through the tinted windows, as Police struggled to clear a path for the minister's vehicle.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mu ... ar_twitter

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 6:47 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote: Think that's a red herring. Of course it's an attack on the BBC- they're answerable for it.

I think it's an overcooked attack- Doughty did nothing he didn't want to. There are much better points to make about BBC bias- Tom Pride did re subjects of tweets.
Doughty might have wanted to screw Corbyn over by resigning just as PMQs started, but that doesn't make it acceptable for the BBC to help him. Doughty didn't have a duty to be impartial, but the Daily Politics team did. How did Cameron know about the resignation before Corbyn, that's what the complaint hinges on. If it is ever proven that Cameron was tipped off while Corbyn was deliberately kept in the dark, I think the BBC could and should be in a lot of trouble. If the BBC hadn't interferred Doughty's resignation would have panned out differently and had a different impact. Personally I think it's an easier infringement to prove than bias in opinion and commentary which is subjective and hard to pin down
I don't think it's important really whether the BBC set it up at a time for maximum impact.

Fact is a Labour politician went along with it. Politicians who want to hurt their own side do this. I don't think most people will care about the distinction.

Making a fuss about it is keeping "Labour Shadow Cabinet Divisions Shambles Corbyn" in the news. The last thing anybody should want.

It doesn't have to be bias that you're alleging- even though I just said that it did. There's a trivialization of politics news point. People are interested in stuff like floods more than anonymous briefings. Say that there's too much with everybody, with the reporting of the government too. Lots of Tories will agree.

I think there's bias too, and I don't know what you do about that.

There is blatant corruption and nothing about it in the Tory Press. We might as well be living in a third world country...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 6:48 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
'Murderer!' - Iain Duncan Smith confronted by furious protest as he visits Job Centre

The work and pensions secretary was shouted down by people demonstrating against his handling of disability benefits

Demonstrators hurled abuse at the Work and Pensions as he visited Peckham Job Centre, after it was revealed one in ten so-called 'fit for work' assessments for sickness and disability benefit claimants was performed inadequately.

Mr Duncan Smith held up a copy of the Daily Mail to shield his face, as his blacked out Range Rover was blocked in the driveway of the centre by the pack of angry activists.

They shouted "scumbag" and "murderer of disabled people" through the tinted windows, as Police struggled to clear a path for the minister's vehicle.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mu ... ar_twitter

He really does sound like a criminal in that description ...

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 6:52 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote: Think that's a red herring. Of course it's an attack on the BBC- they're answerable for it.

I think it's an overcooked attack- Doughty did nothing he didn't want to. There are much better points to make about BBC bias- Tom Pride did re subjects of tweets.
Doughty might have wanted to screw Corbyn over by resigning just as PMQs started, but that doesn't make it acceptable for the BBC to help him. Doughty didn't have a duty to be impartial, but the Daily Politics team did. How did Cameron know about the resignation before Corbyn, that's what the complaint hinges on. If it is ever proven that Cameron was tipped off while Corbyn was deliberately kept in the dark, I think the BBC could and should be in a lot of trouble. If the BBC hadn't interferred Doughty's resignation would have panned out differently and had a different impact. Personally I think it's an easier infringement to prove than bias in opinion and commentary which is subjective and hard to pin down
I don't think it's important really whether the BBC set it up at a time for maximum impact.

Fact is a Labour politician went along with it. Politicians who want to hurt their own side do this. I don't think most people will care about the distinction.

Making a fuss about it is keeping "Labour Shadow Cabinet Divisions Shambles Corbyn" in the news. The last thing anybody should want.

It doesn't have to be bias that you're alleging- even though I just said that it did. There's a trivialization of politics news point. People are interested in stuff like floods more than anonymous briefings. Say that there's too much with everybody, with the reporting of the government too. Lots of Tories will agree.

I think there's bias too, and I don't know what you do about that.

I just don't agree with you on this. Doughty isn't the important element for me. PMQs, a travesty though it may be, is part of our democratic tradition. An impartial public broadcaster shouldn't be interferring to the advantage of one side over the other in a parliamentary debate. If Cameron only knew of Doughty's resignation when he resigned or if he found out from Doughty himself, then you're probably right, it's not an infringement but if the BBC convinced Doughty to delay his resignation whilst leaking it to No 10.......

For me, keeping the pressure on the BBC is more helpful than not to Labour. Everyone's been talking about the BBC's role in Doughty's resignation rather than the resignation itself. From that point of view the stunt backfired. Why sit back and let the BBC turn the conversation back to Labour when you can keep the focus on them and their Tory pals?