Thursday 28th January 2016

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 8:25 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
David Cameron is being offered a watered down “emergency brake” by Brussels allowing him to stop EU migrants claiming benefits in the UK for four years if European leaders give him permission, it has been claimed.
It has been claimed that the EU is now proposing that Britain will be allowed to deny benefits to EU migrants coming to the UK for up to four years if he is able to convince Brussels that UK public services are being put under strain because of foreigners.
Mr Cameron had pledged that as part of his renegotiation with Brussels he would stop all EU migrants coming to the UK from claiming in-work benefits until they have lived in the UK for four years.
The new deal on the table, reported by Reuters, would be a significant watering down of Mr Cameron’s original manifesto pledge and would be criticised by Conservative eurosceptics.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... ssels.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The only response really. This is getting more than ridiculous. As if this is going to convince people who think Brussels pulls the strings that the UK has more powers ... and as for acting as any kind of deterrent to people wanting to come here which is what Cameron claims it is intended to do .... that was always ludicrous.
Indeed.

And of course anybody can register for an NI number in advance of a "brake" coming in.

I see from the G article on the same matter that all EU countries are going to get the same deal ... that it will affect some British citizens ... but won't apply to non EU migrants. Sounds great ... just what the Outers ordered.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 8:27 pm

Paul Flynn ‏@PaulFlynnMP 5m5 minutes ago
Have Plaid Cymru gone mad? Who approved their foul election broadcast?

Cripes. How bad is it? I'm dreading seeing it now.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 8:28 pm

Why would eg the Baltics agree to that?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 8:29 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Paul Flynn ‏@PaulFlynnMP 5m5 minutes ago
Have Plaid Cymru gone mad? Who approved their foul election broadcast?
Cripes. How bad is it? I'm dreading seeing it now.

It's appalling. Everything's shit because Labour and here are some unfunded promises.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 8:33 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Have we had by-elections today?

How about a nice GE do-over?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 8:36 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
Plans to start the process to close the BIS office in Sheffield (St Paul’s Place) by 2018 have been announced today (28 January 2016) by the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills Permanent Secretary Martin Donnelly.

The move will create a combined central HQ and policy centre in London.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/bis- ... eld-office
As someone said "So much for the Northern Powerhouse".
So much for decentralizing from London too.

It's not always as easy to do that as people think.

Government has no intention of making it happen.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 8:39 pm

citizenJA wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Rachel Reeves Retweeted
Paul Wilding ‏@Paul_Wilding1 2h2 hours ago
@RachelReevesMP DWP have issued advice to Local Authorities today to say they should ignore the CoA decision yesterday!!
Ignore a UK court ruling
George Smith's department tells LAs to ignore UK court rulings
Is this precedented?

Yes.

Back in the 90s a man called Eric Mallinson won a case at the House of Lords that had the effect of extending eligibility to DLA for at least some visually impaired people the DHSS (as was) had consistently insisted were not entitled.

Peter Lilley, the Smith of the day, instructed the Benefits Agency to respond to claims and review requests based on their Lordship's decision by saying the BA was not implementing the decision because it disagreed with their Lordships and intended to make further appeals to higher authority.

As someone said at the time, "further appeals to who exactly? God?"

A combination of a swift Judicial Review of the BA and learned Lordships muttering to the Lord Chancellor about the unfortunate consequences of a Secretary of State being held in contempt of court broke the impasse.

It's been conventional for a very long time that if the Court of Appeal reaches a decision overturning the policy of the government, and even more so something parliament has voted on, then the decision is held in abeyance if the government announces it intends to seek leave to appeal to the higher courst until either the government says it isn't going to seek leave, leave has been refused or the Lords/Supreme Court has issued judgement.

The idea is to prevent costly and confusing rapid reversals and counter-reversals of government policy, and sometimes is applied to non-government related court decisions as well if the losing party has an arguable case and implementing the decision were to cause them costs or negative consequences that would be unrecoverable were they to win a further appeal.

Unfortunately it's possible for governments to manipulate this system in all kinds of ways even if they have no intention of trying to appeal further. Typically government might announce it is considering seeking leave to appeal but never get round to lodging the request for leave, and waste several months in the process.

Or government might simply rush through legislation on a three-line whip to negate the court's decision. Major's ministers used that tactic multiple times, especially Michael Howard who regularly found himself being told off by a judge. Unfortunately the replacement legislation was often as flawed as that it was supposed to be fixing and the legal merry-go-round just started all over again.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 8:43 pm

Cameron and Osborne have no business being in their positions, along with the rest of the Tory horde. They're not public servants - 'to lead is to serve'. That's not a platitude. It's practical. No humility, no fundamental understanding of duty, honour or responsibility.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 8:49 pm

@TR'sGhost
Thank you for the explanation - comprehensive and thorough.
I wouldn't be in current government's shoes for anything.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 9:26 pm

Re byelections - I seem to remember Anatoly saying there was just one this week. In Stockton?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 9:29 pm

Just one principal council by-election will take place next week. Labour will be defending a seat in Parkfield & Oxbridge ward in Stockton-on-Tees (UA), with Drew Durning standing as the Liberal Democrat candidate.

From LibDemVoice*

*Quite funny these days that that's in the singular

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 9:32 pm

Another celebration of the life of a loved one ,today.People I haven't seen for fourty years.
You cannot let people know you love them too many times,my one regret is that I didn't let my sister know enough.She was always there,you take things for granted,sometimes until it is too late.Love you sis.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 9:32 pm

Result from 2015

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 9:35 pm

You could have fun with the "commonly known as"

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 9:37 pm

HindleA wrote:You could have fun with the "commonly known as"

Indeed. I note Jackie Green was in fact "commonly known" with no "as"

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 9:38 pm

Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 19m19 minutes ago
EU to concede Cameron demand of 4-year migrant benefit ban — but only if it agrees welfare system under “exceptional” strain from migrants

It's already pretty well documented that the 'welfare system' isn't really that strained by migrants surely? It's a nonsense agreement that looks very unlikely ever to be invoked.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 9:39 pm

OSBORNE, Gideon Oliver commonly known as Snorty

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 9:41 pm

Lovely post A

Sounds like you lost a wonderful sister

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 9:41 pm

From the Guardian story.

Until now it was believed that any emergency brake system would be subject to the authority of the European commission, meaning that Brussels would decide when, for example, Britain could step on the pedal.

But in another win for Cameron, the deal that is shaping up would leave such power with the European council grouping of 28 governments. The other governments are much less likely to deny an emergency brake request from one of their own.

Yeah that's a heck of a win! Instead of the Commission deciding on agreed criteria, it's dependent on 27 other governments with their domestic agenda.

Can't imagine it's a winner in Polish elections to promise that you'll let Cameron take money away from hardworking Poles.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 9:48 pm

Hi Tubby it's great isn't it.

It's looking like a complete fail. I can't wait for Rowson, Bell and the rest to get going with the emergency brake. Or have they already?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 9:52 pm

Good old Nick Watt is right behind Cameron tho!

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 10:08 pm

Re "emergency brakes" - don't know why but this came to mind

[youtube]JWPw0jEIhVw[/youtube]

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 10:13 pm

Pauline Lane ‏@Antonineone1 2 hrs2 hours ago

Labour storms to victory in Faraday ward by-election - Southwark News

http://www.southwarknews.co.uk/news/lab ... dj.twitter

Don't know if this one counts? And don't know whether it was an increased vote for Labour.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 10:16 pm

That was last week I think Ohso

Worth a repost though

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 10:17 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ore-uk-tax" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well done, David Cameron. Your pressure on the EU has made the Commission take a look at the deal HMRC have just given Google.

I seriously doubted your renegotiation but now I'm right onside with you.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 10:19 pm

J.K. Rowling ‏@jk_rowling 6m6 minutes ago
.@NatalieMcGarry You don't appear to understand how Twitter or defamation works. I'm going to help you out with the latter.

She is the very best at the twitter put down.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 10:23 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ore-uk-tax

Well done, David Cameron. Your pressure on the EU has made the Commission take a look at the deal HMRC have just given Google.

I seriously doubted your renegotiation but now I'm right onside with you.

ITV news have just had a rather short and pretty withering item on Dave's renegotiation. The summary was 'it's not going very well' and the punch line at the end was that the new proposal re benefits seemed to give the EU a new power (deciding if our services are totally overwhelmed - picture the UK like a pastiche Scarlett O'Hara trying her best in impossible circumstances) when the whole idea of the renegotiation was meant to be repatriating powers to the UK. Eurosceptics are very underwhelmed.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 10:28 pm

Will they have COBRA meetings to decide when to apply the emergency brake?

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 10:30 pm

I am rarely optimistic these days about anything to do with politics and our criminally insane Government, but there are aspects to this cack-handed shambles of a 'renegotiation' that give rise to the very faintest of hopes that someday, and perhaps relatively soon, Cameron's total and utter ineptitude is going to drop a bollock so large that not even his liar's screen of protective media can conceal him from being seen as the complete f*ck-up he truly is.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 10:36 pm

mbc1955 wrote:I am rarely optimistic these days about anything to do with politics and our criminally insane Government, but there are aspects to this cack-handed shambles of a 'renegotiation' that give rise to the very faintest of hopes that someday, and perhaps relatively soon, Cameron's total and utter ineptitude is going to drop a bollock so large that not even his liar's screen of protective media can conceal him from being seen as the complete f*ck-up he truly is.

Indeed! Dave was never get a good deal from Europe. He's pissed the other nations off royally on too many occasions for them to want to help him out.

The worry is the collateral damage he may cause.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 10:39 pm

I mean, is this stuff softening us up to be unsurprised when Dave says he's campaigning for Out?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 10:45 pm

A nice interview with Lisa Nandy

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk ... -too-small" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 10:58 pm

Natalie McGarry made a complete arse of herself on Twitter.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 11:01 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 19m19 minutes ago
EU to concede Cameron demand of 4-year migrant benefit ban — but only if it agrees welfare system under “exceptional” strain from migrants
It's already pretty well documented that the 'welfare system' isn't really that strained by migrants surely? It's a nonsense agreement that looks very unlikely ever to be invoked.

It's hard to see people who collectively pay in more than than they take out are a financial strain.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 11:04 pm

So will Dave switch sides?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 11:11 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:So will Dave switch sides?

Probably not. If he does, he'll lose a lot of post-PM gigs. Going to be lecturing Eurosceptic loons for the rest of his life.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 11:31 pm

Interesting that EU harmonizing of VAT is coming up at the moment.

According to The Guardian, the UK and Ireland are unusual in having so much stuff on which VAT isn't charged. The UK is a net importer of food- so does it make sense not to charge VAT on it?

(You can change the tax and benefit system to make sure people aren't made worse off by charging VAT, and that would need to happen).

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 11:37 pm

Sheriff Mike's in town again.

http://schoolsweek.co.uk/one-in-four-sc ... spections/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Under the new regime, announced last July and launched in September, good schools are visited for one day by two inspectors, but subsequently get a full visit if it is believed they could rise above or fall below the “good” benchmark.

Just 27 schools jumped from good to outstanding following an upgrade to full inspections, while around 64 per cent of those visited – roughly 203 schools – remained good.

Ah well, sure the answer is more Ofsted.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 11:45 pm

Steve Reed ‏@SteveReedMP 16m16 minutes ago
Senior Tory councillor makes £thousands running tenant eviction company - shocking http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/re ... on-7263090" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 11:47 pm

Craig Woodhouse ‏@craigawoodhouse 1m1 minute ago
Oh God, it looks like Tories are all tweeting en-masse about Sadiq Khan. Election tweets are awful.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 11:54 pm

citizenJA wrote:
HindleA wrote:They knew this.
Yes, they did. And they're responsible for this misery. Bastards.

Worse. They knew this and vociferously denied it would cause any misery at every opportunity. Instead every single measure they took they presented as some kind of salvation. Despicable bastards.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 29 Jan, 2016 12:15 am

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/200 ... ges-europe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From 2009.

Repatriation of social and employment legislation

The Tories would like to restore the British opt-out from the social chapter negotiated by John Major in 1991. They acknowledge that this will need the agreement of all 27 member states, because the provisions of the social chapter have been sprinkled through EU treaties since then.

Like that was ever going to happen.