Tuesday 5th April 2016

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 5:26 pm

Not impossible that old mother Cameron is benefiting from offshore.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 5:27 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/pers ... ounts.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Offshore accounts can be set up to defer interest payment until after the account is closed.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 5:41 pm

yahyah wrote:Could it be set up so benefits are deferred to a later date ? So No 10 could be being economical with the truth ?

I think trust fund just holds money, and it's available as/when needed. So a 'beneficiary' wouldn't have to take anything from it until they wanted to, so yes he could be.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 5:43 pm

tinybgoat wrote:
yahyah wrote:Could it be set up so benefits are deferred to a later date ? So No 10 could be being economical with the truth ?
I think trust fund just holds money, and it's available as/when needed. So a 'beneficiary' wouldn't have to take anything from it until they wanted to, so yes he could be.

And they wouldn't need it now anyway - tied house(s), PM's salary - why would they need more?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 5:46 pm

Conservatives, especially the bunch in power, have been known to lie.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 5:48 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:
yahyah wrote:Could it be set up so benefits are deferred to a later date ? So No 10 could be being economical with the truth ?
I think trust fund just holds money, and it's available as/when needed. So a 'beneficiary' wouldn't have to take anything from it until they wanted to, so yes he could be.
And they wouldn't need it now anyway - tied house(s), PM's salary - why would they need more?

And I should imagine it's pretty much a given that Cameron the elders grandchildren, have had trust funds set up for them.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 5:49 pm

Just adding up what it must have cost Cameron the elder to educate his brood makes your eyes water.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 5:49 pm

Spring cleaning

I damned near burst into tears I was so frustrated at some jackass awkward thing refusing to get clean
I can open the window above the kitchen sink but I require a step ladder to get it closed again
then I noticed all the clean space all around the kitchen sink
I hopped up onto the counter and pulled the window shut no problem, like I did when I was a kid
didn't hurt, no hesitation
I needed to tell you that
victory is ours!

Lentil stew - home-made and smells delicious, all done
can someone do a pudding, please?
a crumble?

thank you all for your patience with me

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 5:51 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:
yahyah wrote:Could it be set up so benefits are deferred to a later date ? So No 10 could be being economical with the truth ?
I think trust fund just holds money, and it's available as/when needed. So a 'beneficiary' wouldn't have to take anything from it until they wanted to, so yes he could be.
And they wouldn't need it now anyway - tied house(s), PM's salary - why would they need more?

Well, there's the rub. The rich always seem to need more.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 5:52 pm

ice-cream
the good kind, without emulsifiers

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 5:56 pm

Lord Nash apparently wrote to existing sponsors asking for them to seek out businessmen to take on some academies (lots to offload!)

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The conversation led to this:

A prize (which you have to buy yourself) for identifying the character (not difficult)

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 6:01 pm

Let me try to get this straight.....

The son of a man whose career involved creating financial instruments designed to avoid/evade tax is our Prime Minister.
That Prime Minister does not benefit from any shares or involvement with his late fathers' companies/investments.
His wife and children do not benefit as above. The PM's income derives from salary and rents, with savings interest.

The Prime Minister has a mother, a brother, and two sisters. I wonder whether they have shares or investments?

If you are a benefit claimant, you can be required to submit evidence of all your financial affairs to strangers. This is not unreasonable if you claim income-based support, because obviously an assessment of financial need has to be made. This may or may not be secure.

If you are our Prime Minister, you can promise to publish the evidence of your tax affairs in the interests of transparency. For four years.
If you are asked about your affairs by an economic journalist of some reputation (Peston), it is considered impertinent.
If you are asked (Faisal Islam) whether you have at any time past or expect in the future to benefit from offshore holdings, you avoid the question.

I expect Cameron has arranged his affairs for some time to be, on the face of it, squeaky clean. He is not daft, and protects his image.
I think he has a lot more money than he will allow us to see, and he will have made specific arrangements for his current career - I am willing to bet that his family and/or family trusts have this whole thing tied up in tinsel for as long as he remains in politics.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 6:11 pm

Have just read Panama Papers: the reaction from around the world (http://www.theguardian.com/news/comment ... tax-havens), not open for comments. I was a little disappointed so have decided to do my usual foray of continental news sites later. Today however I shall cast my view a little wider.

Btw should anybody wonder I'm fully aware of my tendency to mix metaphors. I thought they were supposed to be, even better should they inspire more. That's my story... sometimes of course I'm just plain stupid and forget what I'm saying.

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 6:31 pm

I don't like it. When you open that Pandora's box, you will find it full of Trojan horses.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 6:40 pm

GetYou wrote:I don't like it. When you open that Pandora's box, you will find it full of Trojan horses.

Au contraire, GetYou. It's far too late for the 'elite' to keep a lid on it and world-wide opinion is no more acceptance of their token gifts. The tide is turning and we shall seize what is rightfully ours.

Personally Corbyn has grown on me and I like McDonnel (hope I got his name right). Plain and unabashed speaking to whoever wants to listen is what is needed for a groundswell of feeling (grassroots movements). Neither appear to lead by diktat, seemingly expressing consensual views. Possibly because of Tory bad press and better coverage themselves, they do appear to be finally reaching out. I almost feel positive that they may inspire more of the electorate to cast their vote.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 6:41 pm

Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft 10m10 minutes ago
Opinium National Poll CON 33% LAB 32% UKIP 17% LDEM 5% GRNS 4%

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 6:41 pm

Anna Turley MP ‏@annaturley 36m36 minutes ago

Unemployment Soars in Redcar after Steelworks Closes Amid Fight to Close Port Talbot "

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/r ... bd919bbc02 # via @HuffPostUKPol

What was that about a dead cat? Hardly a mention of Port Talbot, let alone Redcar.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 6:50 pm

Anna Turley MP Retweeted
HuffPostUK Politics ‏@HuffPostUKPol 20m20 minutes ago
How Government refusing to save Redcar steelworks has fuelled soaring unemployment http://huff.to/23djkcP" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 6:51 pm

Ah snap Ohso.

Very sad article.

Anna Turley is right to be sceptical that the government's interest in saving Port Talbot will last beyond the May elections and June referendum.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 6:54 pm

Pippa Crerar Retweeted
David Schneider ‏@davidschneider 11h11 hours ago
Cameron: The steel thing is awful for us. We must change the news agenda.
[#panamapapers leak]
Cameron: I need everyone to talk about steel.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 6:57 pm

Otto English ‏@Otto_English 45m45 minutes ago
Zac Goldsmith sounds stoned and uninterested - lovely face - all the charisma of a potato #londondebate

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 7:01 pm

Hillsborough Inquest was suspended early today,now hoping to finish summing up tomorrow.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 7:02 pm

BBC Breaking News ‏@BBCBreaking 39s39 seconds ago
New Fifa president signed TV contract with businessmen now accused of bribery #PanamaPapers
http://bbc.in/229Xg09" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 7:05 pm

utopiandreams wrote:Au contraire, GetYou. It's far too late for the 'elite' to keep a lid on it and world-wide opinion is no more acceptance of their token gifts. The tide is turning and we shall seize what is rightfully ours.

I almost completely agree with you utopiandreams. I was just rolling out one of my favourite mixed metaphors in response to you noting your tendency to do so. I have plenty, but I shall try to save them for the appropriate moments, for as we know, too many cooks make light work

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 7:09 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Otto English ‏@Otto_English 45m45 minutes ago
Zac Goldsmith sounds stoned and uninterested - lovely face - all the charisma of a potato #londondebate

It's probably because he's having to mix with the plebs ... It's enough to turn a good Tory's stomach....

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 7:11 pm

BBC is saying that David Cameron has been forced to deny that any members of his "immediate family" have etc etc.

Immediate Family Members

According to the Business Dictionary [and anywhere else I've looked], your immediate family includes the following members:

Spouse
Parents
Grandparents
Children (adopted, half and step children are usually included in the definition)
Grandchildren
Siblings
In-laws (mother, father, brother, sister, daughter and son)

Yeah, right. (Well, admittedly he hasn't any grandchildren.)

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 7:11 pm

GetYou wrote:
utopiandreams wrote:Au contraire, GetYou. It's far too late for the 'elite' to keep a lid on it and world-wide opinion is no more acceptance of their token gifts. The tide is turning and we shall seize what is rightfully ours.
I almost completely agree with you utopiandreams. I was just rolling out one of my favourite mixed metaphors in response to you noting your tendency to do so. I have plenty, but I shall try to save them for the appropriate moments, for as we know, too many cooks make light work

And people in greenhouses spoil the broth.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 7:21 pm

This one's ticking up at a rate of knots.

https://speakout.38degrees.org.uk/campa ... um=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 7:23 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:But.....but.......we got told that Ed was always hopeless at PMQs!

He was.

Well, he was if you expect PMQs to go like this-

"Would the prime minister like to explain how he intends to improve on the government's pitiful response to the current crisis, affecting the entire country?"

"The Rt Hon leader of the opposition is a smelly-poo, and I don't explain things to smelly-poo oiks who didn't even go to Eton."

"Same to you with knobs on...."

Etc. etc., with backbenchers roaring for their own side, booing the other and fake-laughing like a food-fight in a particularly badly run bear garden.

After 20 minutes or so of this the media announce the "winner" based on whether the PM slipped up and actually answered a question truthfully or not (automatic lose), the best public-school playground insult emitted and the volume of roaring in the house.

All so much more fun than a so boring sober, serious discussion about how the crisis affecting the entire country is going to be dealt with.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 7:25 pm

David Schneider ‏@davidschneider 35m35 minutes ago

Cameron today:
"I did not have offshore relations with that tax haven"
"My father tried Mossack Fonseca but he didn't inhale"

#panamapapers

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 7:25 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Brace yourself for the next assault on the sick and disabled
http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/04/0 ... -disabled/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

... The document also recommends the end of the Work Capability Assessment in its current form. This has been trailed in the media – most notably by The Sunday Times, which has reported that Mr Crabb wants to end the involvement of private firms in disability benefit assessment.

What that newspaper didn’t say is that the plan is to abolish Employment and Support Allowance altogether and roll sickness benefits into Universal Credit with “a single online application for the benefit, including a ‘Proximity to the Labour Market Diagnostic’ to determine a claimant’s distance from work and a health questionnaire”...

It's not functional, Universal Credit, what about in the meantime?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 7:27 pm

ohsocynical wrote:David Schneider ‏@davidschneider 35m35 minutes ago

Cameron today:
"I did not have offshore relations with that tax haven"
"My father tried Mossack Fonseca but he didn't inhale"

#panamapapers

You've more than you can use, Dave, and you're not funding the civilisation you depend upon adequately.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 7:30 pm

PorFavor wrote:BBC is saying that David Cameron has been forced to deny that any members of his "immediate family" have etc etc.

Immediate Family Members

According to the Business Dictionary [and anywhere else I've looked], your immediate family includes the following members:

Spouse
Parents
Grandparents
Children (adopted, half and step children are usually included in the definition)
Grandchildren
Siblings
In-laws (mother, father, brother, sister, daughter and son)
Yeah, right. (Well, admittedly he hasn't any grandchildren.)

Yes, this is really very silly.
I mean Dave's tax-haven usage denials.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 7:30 pm

citizenJA wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Barry Sheerman Retweeted
IFAW Westminster ‏@IFAWWestminster 17h17 hours ago
Court confirms NFU/Government’s claims of intimidation from badger cull protestors were exaggerated and misleading http://bit.ly/1UDBZwV" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That's actionable - right?
Misleading - lying - to law enforcement, court or officials working in a regulatory body is actionable.

Maybe. Attempting to pervert the course of justice is a criminal offence as is perjury.

However the prosecution has to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the accused was knowingly lying or otherwise knowingly dissembling rather than simply being mistaken. Which is hard to prove so makes prosecutions rare.

It doesn't help that the regulatory bodies generally only prosecute offences that fall under their own legislation, and perjury/perverting the course of justice would normally be handled by the police/CPS. Who generally don't seem to rush to take on the job when the original matter wasn't their case.

There are exceptions, such as HSE's power to require someone to give them a statement under threat of criminal sanction if they don't, but that's a power rarely used against an alleged offender because it potentially opens up a huge can of human rights worms if they use a "section 20" statement against the accused in court.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 7:34 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Just adding up what it must have cost Cameron the elder to educate his brood makes your eyes water.

What did they learn?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 7:35 pm

Éoin ‏@LabourEoin 9h9 hours ago

David Cameron's family "retain a financial interest" in the Offshore Havens mentioned in the #PanamaPapers, the BBC has just reported.

Hah !!!!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 7:37 pm

citizenJA wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Just adding up what it must have cost Cameron the elder to educate his brood makes your eyes water.
What did they learn?

Not much, but by God did it open some doors for them.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 7:40 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:
yahyah wrote:Could it be set up so benefits are deferred to a later date ? So No 10 could be being economical with the truth ?
I think trust fund just holds money, and it's available as/when needed. So a 'beneficiary' wouldn't have to take anything from it until they wanted to, so yes he could be.
And they wouldn't need it now anyway - tied house(s), PM's salary - why would they need more?

Exactly, Roger!

Amass something else - images taken of sunsets, sunrises, children's art work, correspondence, ceramics from charity shops.

Off-shored fortunes - the people using them - hoarded resources they can't even use up in a lifetime! What good leaving it to inheritors attempting survival in a compromised civilisation - inadequate social, physical and economic infrastructure? Impoverished communities exist because a few don't pay their fair share. It's not sensible.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 7:43 pm

PoliticsHome ‏@politicshome 12m12 minutes ago
Zac Goldsmith: Sadiq Khan is ‘fundamentally unprincipled’ http://polho.me/229rnF5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That comment on Goldsmith that Paul from Yorkshire posted earlier .... spot on.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 7:44 pm

Carly Doyle ‏@ATLCarly 2h2 hours ago

Unanimous vote to oppose @NickyMorgan01's white paper- #tellnickyno #ATLConf2016

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 7:45 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Just adding up what it must have cost Cameron the elder to educate his brood makes your eyes water.
What did they learn?
Not much, but by God did it open some doors for them.

Expensive but worthless educations - gate-keepers using dysfunctional criteria for admission.
Something isn't right.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 7:51 pm

I hope the press doesn't now switch its entire attention to Fifa's involvement.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 7:55 pm

Isabel Oakeshott ‏@IsabelOakeshott 2m2 minutes ago
Isabel Oakeshott Retweeted Farming Top News
And so they should be. Cows belong in fields.

Farming Top News
‏@FarmingTopNews
Countryfile viewers disgusted by intensive dairy farmin... http://gettopical.com/farming/25f1aa4f3 ... rc=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … via @philip_ciwf

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 7:55 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
PoliticsHome ‏@politicshome 12m12 minutes ago
Zac Goldsmith: Sadiq Khan is ‘fundamentally unprincipled’ http://polho.me/229rnF5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That comment on Goldsmith that Paul from Yorkshire posted earlier .... spot on.

Pretty sure at school that would have got "just because you're losing!" sung at Goldsmith...

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 8:19 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Vince Cable thinks that we should now leave poor DC alone. "Take it at face value."
Vince who?

Oh, you must know him. He did a cover version of Edelweiss way back when.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 8:23 pm

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/07aa13ca-fb1a ... z44yvPuimb" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

David Cameron has no choice but to come clean on his tax affairs
Sebastian Payne

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 8:27 pm

HindleA wrote:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/07aa13ca-fb1a ... z44yvPuimb

David Cameron has no choice but to come clean on his tax affairs
Sebastian Payne

I remember when McDonnell published his tax form and the wittering idiots came out with "can't be right - MPs earn more than that" forgetting (or ignoring) that what goes on tax forms is net of pension contributions...

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 8:28 pm

Revealed: the tycoons and world leaders who built secret UK property empires
The Panama Papers show how billions of pounds of offshore cash flooded the British property market

http://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/ap ... SApp_Other

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 8:35 pm

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Another #QTWTAIN (probably)

Michael O'Connor (Stronger in numbers)

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 8:39 pm

Ed Vaizey on C4 news re arts funding and arts education.

Hazy Vaizey.

Very unconvincing.

Apparently he hasn't got much money from the Treasury - but he assures the director of Hull Truck Theatre that if she can prove their work benefits the health and well being of the community she can get funds from the health authority .... and the same for schools and education ....

How bloody out of date and patronising is he? Does he think they won't have been doing that for a long time ... and does he not realise that those kinds of funds have pretty much totally dried up with the Tories 'reforms' in both health and education and the unprecedented financial squeeze on them.