Tuesday 24th May 2016

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 24 May, 2016 7:38 pm

: What we can expect to read re election expenses.jpg (24.17 KiB) Viewed 6331 times

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 24 May, 2016 7:40 pm

In reply to Ali
Éoin ‏@LabourEoin 33m33 minutes ago
@The45Storm You're clearly not listening. The stories will now be staggered. I've seen 3 of them. They are explosive.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 24 May, 2016 7:45 pm

citizenJA wrote:
"It is not only incredibly patronising to suggest that the working class just need a bit of flag waving to engage them with politics, it's
also deeply frustrating. This was an opportunity to look at the problems many working class communities face and to come up with
real ways of reconnecting with them."

In almost all the articles Hunt has written on the subject over the last few days he brings up Emily Thornberry's tweet during the
general election campaign about the house in Rochester which was draped in St George's flags. He clearly thinks this was an incident
which damaged the Labour party with working class voters. Of course, the tweet was ill-judged but it was a much a bigger issue for
the political journalists covering the election than it was normal people. Most of my family live on council estates, I texted a few of
them yesterday to ask if they remembered Thornberry's tweet. Only one did. This kind of thing is what middle-class, highly educated
people believe the working class are concerned about rather than what they actually are.

- Natalie Bloomer
Tristram Hunt's patronising ideas about patriotism will not win back the working class
24 May 2016
Jeremy Hunt's constituency work in Stoke-on-Trent (Central) isn't theoretical, he talks with people, he's here in Stoke talking with
them. If he's brought up that incident, it's because it's something people in the constituency he represents have spoken to him
about. It's bothered some people. I wasn't as bothered by it as others are. The author should text a few more people or use
another data collection instrument. Hunt doesn't think people will be best served by UKIP in government. I agree with him.
Hunt talks with UKIP supporters regularly in Stoke Central. He listens to what they tell them. Is that patronising?

I don't think it's patronising but he's got the wrong end of the stick. UKIP voters somehow think being more 'patriotic', is in some weird way going to turn the clock back. That UKIP are going to make it, them [foreigners] all go away. It's about jobs and council housing and foreigners getting preference for both. It's about greed and ignorance and a good dollop of prejudice at the working class end of the spectrum. And I know. I hear it all the time. Sometimes the white, English, polite mask slips, and then out it comes.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but in reality that's how it is. The snag is he, or indeed any politician would probably get lynched if he/she/they said it like it is. If on the other hand Hunt hasn't linked the longings for patriotism, with perceived being hard done by, then I don't know what to say.

And to add. Being working class doesn't mean we all want to look out for those worse off than ourselves and live by, 'There but for the grace of God, go I'. We can be just as venal as any Tory.

Edited to add 'all' .....

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 24 May, 2016 7:54 pm

Sorry. Not meant to be a rant...

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 24 May, 2016 8:03 pm

Hah! Here's one of Eions bombshells.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Tue 24 May, 2016 8:13 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Hah! Here's one of Eions bombshells.

ttps://twitter.com/LabourEoin/status/735180821737279490/photo/1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hi Ohso - you've missed a "h" from the start of your URL?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 24 May, 2016 8:13 pm

That link isn't working.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 24 May, 2016 8:14 pm

Ah it is.

That's not part of the short campaign.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 24 May, 2016 8:18 pm

There's a ban on paying people to deliver leaflets? I don't get this at all.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 24 May, 2016 8:25 pm

I was reading an article about motoring and self-driving cars. Comments below the line - our intellectual capacities, how we process
information - a monitor, keyboard using two dimensional interaction with only words making conversation with others, logically,
intellectually, deciding safe from unsafe - people are disconnected from reality.

"Everything was going to be okay and safe for pedestrians and others outside of motor vehicles because insurance would cover it if
anything went wrong."

I would've responded to that by asking how insurance brings a dead pedestrian back to life, or something like that to call attention
to the the obvious mistake I saw in the post but the comments were closed. I've been anxious about it because there's someone
out there who might well think their thinking is fine but their thinking isn't fine.

My own anxiety isn't rational either - the person writing that may have posted it, read it back and realised their mistake.
Or someone who knows them saw it and brought them 'round. It was just a comment below the line of an article, not a
peer-reviewed document with lives at stake. Except some people get into their cars and drive like they're sitting on a
mobile version of their settee and don't understand just because they're not at risk from that person crossing the road
with their feet, that doesn't mean they're not a risk to them. We forget. We're fallible.

I've posted today I don't think most people are sadistic or unintelligent and that's likely true enough. However, it
doesn't take actively evil people without intelligence to make life go absolutely wrong for billions of people and
other life and land, does it? We get tired, stressed, overwhelmed and push the wrong buttons. A series of
actions or non-actions result in disaster or a series of disasters. I'm not just writing about about motor
vehicles. Not at all, it's not even the main point. It's an example of a common activity that can have
fatal consequences for people. It happens all the time.

We can laugh at the person who asked in all seriousness, 'What happens when the renewable energy runs
out, then what are you going to do, huh?'. I understand the logic the person was using. Of course, it's a
glaring example of reacting to statements before thinking something through, not fully understanding
the topic of discussion but loathing admission of ignorance. Instead of thinking things through, it feels
more powerful to say anything, react first, rather than listen and think.

It has to be okay to slow down and ask for time to think. Too often we're not given what we need.

Thank you for your continued patience with me.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Tue 24 May, 2016 8:27 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:There's a ban on paying people to deliver leaflets? I don't get this at all.

Probably not a ban on paying people to deliver leaflets, but the costs would need to be declared.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 24 May, 2016 8:33 pm

danesclose wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Hah! Here's one of Eions bombshells.

ttps://twitter.com/LabourEoin/status/735180821737279490/photo/1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Hi Ohso - you've missed a "h" from the start of your URL?

So I have. Brain dead today...I'll edit....

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 24 May, 2016 8:34 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Sorry. Not meant to be a rant...

It wasn't a rant, it was a brilliant response to what I posted. I don't know what I'd do without your help. In my opinion, if Tristram
Hunt (or any other leader) wants to successfully represent people as a Labour party MP, he'll work on what he's about, fix mistakes
he's responsible for and get on with it as a member of the Labour party.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 24 May, 2016 8:36 pm

danesclose wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:There's a ban on paying people to deliver leaflets? I don't get this at all.
Probably not a ban on paying people to deliver leaflets, but the costs would need to be declared.

£3 for 100 leaflets isn't earth shattering. Plus they were before the short campaign, and we don't even know what the leaflets said.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 24 May, 2016 8:39 pm

@RobertSnozers
Wonderful writing about Nick Cohen.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 24 May, 2016 8:42 pm

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/ne ... any-users/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

MP brands £5.5million north-east fleet of buses “unfit” for many users

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 24 May, 2016 8:43 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:There's a ban on paying people to deliver leaflets? I don't get this at all.

Read a few replies under that Tweet. Can't find a definitive answer.

Someone said it was okay as long as you declared it, but I thought you weren't allowed to pay for things like that. It had to be volunteer.
Then again how does that square with the Tories sending their leaflets through the mail? Technically buying stamps and having the PO deliver them, is no different than paying someone local to drop them through the door.

Confused as well as brain dead now.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 24 May, 2016 8:46 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/ne ... any-users/

MP brands £5.5million north-east fleet of buses “unfit” for many users

Stagecoach. The SNP might feel a bit awkward.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 24 May, 2016 8:47 pm

Steve Hilton trying not to criticize Cameron and shit on Harriet Harman instead.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 24 May, 2016 8:49 pm

Steve Hilton is useless.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 24 May, 2016 9:01 pm

Channel 4 News +1.

Realised after I posted that not everyone would be watching it at the same time.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 24 May, 2016 9:05 pm

All buses are supposed to be accessible by Jan 2017.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 24 May, 2016 9:06 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
danesclose wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:There's a ban on paying people to deliver leaflets? I don't get this at all.
Probably not a ban on paying people to deliver leaflets, but the costs would need to be declared.
£3 for 100 leaflets isn't earth shattering. Plus they were before the short campaign, and we don't even know what the leaflets said.

Depends on how many houses in the town village or city...Around 66,000 in Bracknell which is classed as a small town. That would be a fair few quid.

Post by **refitman** » Tue 24 May, 2016 9:06 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:There's a ban on paying people to deliver leaflets? I don't get this at all.
Read a few replies under that Tweet. Can't find a definitive answer.

Someone said it was okay as long as you declared it, but I thought you weren't allowed to pay for things like that. It had to be volunteer.
Then again how does that square with the Tories sending their leaflets through the mail? Technically buying stamps and having the PO deliver them, is no different than paying someone local to drop them through the door.

Confused as well as brain dead now.

According to what Tim Fenton has read in the Representation of the People Act 1983:

Section 111 of the Act, “Prohibition of paid canvassers”, states “If a person is, either before, during or after an election, engaged or employed for payment or promise of payment as a canvasser for the purpose of promoting or procuring a candidate’s election - (a)the person so engaging or employing him, and (b)the person so engaged or employed … shall be guilty of illegal employment.”

So,no you can't pay people to deliver leaflets. It's one of the things the Tories were doing, promising food and drink after a day of delivering, which if "promise of payment". http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2016/ ... grows.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As he goes on, in the above link:

The Labour Party organiser’s handbook errs on the side of caution: “In the case of members canvassing the public on the phone or the doorstep, it would be illegal to pay them for this work. It is therefore important that provision of refreshments for these workers is an occasional expression of gratitude and that it is quite clear that they are not promised in advance as an inducement to do this work” [Tim Fenton's emphasis].

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 24 May, 2016 9:18 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Steve Hilton is useless.

A few years ago, he was suddenly leaving the country on a 'sabbatical' but sort of under a cloud...And now here he is back in our lives, large as life and twice as nasty.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 24 May, 2016 9:26 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:There's a ban on paying people to deliver leaflets? I don't get this at all.
Read a few replies under that Tweet. Can't find a definitive answer.

Someone said it was okay as long as you declared it, but I thought you weren't allowed to pay for things like that. It had to be volunteer.
Then again how does that square with the Tories sending their leaflets through the mail? Technically buying stamps and having the PO deliver them, is no different than paying someone local to drop them through the door.

Confused as well as brain dead now.

Just before the GE, I remember our party was trying to organise leaflet dropping. Some one suggested something like 'can't we just post them?' and the reply was, 'we can't afford it we're not as rich as the Tories.'

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 24 May, 2016 9:44 pm

citizenJA wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Sorry. Not meant to be a rant...
It wasn't a rant, it was a brilliant response to what I posted. I don't know what I'd do without your help. In my opinion, if Tristram
Hunt (or any other leader) wants to successfully represent people as a Labour party MP, he'll work on what he's about, fix mistakes
he's responsible for and get on with it as a member of the Labour party.

If we're not careful the working class will be classed as beyond reproach simply because they are working class and have taken a lot of knocks ... And that would be a mistake.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 24 May, 2016 9:48 pm

refitman wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:There's a ban on paying people to deliver leaflets? I don't get this at all.
Read a few replies under that Tweet. Can't find a definitive answer.

Someone said it was okay as long as you declared it, but I thought you weren't allowed to pay for things like that. It had to be volunteer.
Then again how does that square with the Tories sending their leaflets through the mail? Technically buying stamps and having the PO deliver them, is no different than paying someone local to drop them through the door.

Confused as well as brain dead now.
According to what Tim Fenton has read in the Representation of the People Act 1983:
Section 111 of the Act, “Prohibition of paid canvassers”, states “If a person is, either before, during or after an election, engaged or employed for payment or promise of payment as a canvasser for the purpose of promoting or procuring a candidate’s election - (a)the person so engaging or employing him, and (b)the person so engaged or employed … shall be guilty of illegal employment.”
So,no you can't pay people to deliver leaflets. It's one of the things the Tories were doing, promising food and drink after a day of delivering, which if "promise of payment". http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2016/ ... grows.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As he goes on, in the above link:
The Labour Party organiser’s handbook errs on the side of caution: “In the case of members canvassing the public on the phone or the doorstep, it would be illegal to pay them for this work. It is therefore important that provision of refreshments for these workers is an occasional expression of gratitude and that it is quite clear that they are not promised in advance as an inducement to do this work” [Tim Fenton's emphasis].

So it's okay to use the Royal Mail, but not a company that delivers junk mail or newspapers?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 24 May, 2016 9:48 pm

http://blog.shelter.org.uk/2016/05/home ... ocal-area/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Home and away: What do we know about the rise in homeless families moved away from their local area?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 24 May, 2016 9:51 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... uction-ons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

George Osborne's new financial year gets off to 'a disappointing start'
ONS reveals government borrowing at £600m more than expected for April with deficit figures for March also revised up

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 24 May, 2016 10:02 pm

refitman wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:There's a ban on paying people to deliver leaflets? I don't get this at all.
Read a few replies under that Tweet. Can't find a definitive answer.

Someone said it was okay as long as you declared it, but I thought you weren't allowed to pay for things like that. It had to be volunteer.
Then again how does that square with the Tories sending their leaflets through the mail? Technically buying stamps and having the PO deliver them, is no different than paying someone local to drop them through the door.

Confused as well as brain dead now.
According to what Tim Fenton has read in the Representation of the People Act 1983:
Section 111 of the Act, “Prohibition of paid canvassers”, states “If a person is, either before, during or after an election, engaged or employed for payment or promise of payment as a canvasser for the purpose of promoting or procuring a candidate’s election - (a)the person so engaging or employing him, and (b)the person so engaged or employed … shall be guilty of illegal employment.”
So,no you can't pay people to deliver leaflets. It's one of the things the Tories were doing, promising food and drink after a day of delivering, which if "promise of payment". http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2016/ ... grows.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As he goes on, in the above link:
The Labour Party organiser’s handbook errs on the side of caution: “In the case of members canvassing the public on the phone or the doorstep, it would be illegal to pay them for this work. It is therefore important that provision of refreshments for these workers is an occasional expression of gratitude and that it is quite clear that they are not promised in advance as an inducement to do this work” [Tim Fenton's emphasis].

Thanks very much, Dan.

This sounds more serious than I thought.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 24 May, 2016 10:03 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... uction-ons

George Osborne's new financial year gets off to 'a disappointing start'
ONS reveals government borrowing at £600m more than expected for April with deficit figures for March also revised up

Damn. What happened. We were doing so well --- Not.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 24 May, 2016 10:06 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
refitman wrote:
ohsocynical wrote: Read a few replies under that Tweet. Can't find a definitive answer.

Someone said it was okay as long as you declared it, but I thought you weren't allowed to pay for things like that. It had to be volunteer.
Then again how does that square with the Tories sending their leaflets through the mail? Technically buying stamps and having the PO deliver them, is no different than paying someone local to drop them through the door.

Confused as well as brain dead now.
According to what Tim Fenton has read in the Representation of the People Act 1983:
Section 111 of the Act, “Prohibition of paid canvassers”, states “If a person is, either before, during or after an election, engaged or employed for payment or promise of payment as a canvasser for the purpose of promoting or procuring a candidate’s election - (a)the person so engaging or employing him, and (b)the person so engaged or employed … shall be guilty of illegal employment.”
So,no you can't pay people to deliver leaflets. It's one of the things the Tories were doing, promising food and drink after a day of delivering, which if "promise of payment". http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2016/ ... grows.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As he goes on, in the above link:
The Labour Party organiser’s handbook errs on the side of caution: “In the case of members canvassing the public on the phone or the doorstep, it would be illegal to pay them for this work. It is therefore important that provision of refreshments for these workers is an occasional expression of gratitude and that it is quite clear that they are not promised in advance as an inducement to do this work” [Tim Fenton's emphasis].
Thanks very much, Dan.

This sounds more serious than I thought.

But that particular letter says it will pay £3 per 100 leaflets as long as they're not delivered along with newspapers, which suggests they probably paid a company that delivers junk mail and/or free newspapers.

Edited. I think I've had it for the evening...BED.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 24 May, 2016 10:06 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... uction-ons

George Osborne's new financial year gets off to 'a disappointing start'
ONS reveals government borrowing at £600m more than expected for April with deficit figures for March also revised up
Damn. What happened. We were doing so well --- Not.

Indeed.

Missed target last year by £4bn.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 24 May, 2016 10:10 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ndum-month" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Retailers are expecting sales to fall next month at the fastest rate since May 2013 and have sharply cut back on orders.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 24 May, 2016 10:13 pm

Dan Hodges

#If Hillary loses to him I'll streak naked through the foyer of Trump Tower.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 24 May, 2016 10:16 pm

Britain Elects

EU referendum poll:
Remain: 41% (-3)
Leave: 41% (+1)
(via YouGov / 23 - 24 May)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 24 May, 2016 10:54 pm

Goodnight, Ohso
love,
cJA

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 24 May, 2016 10:55 pm

Think there was a post earlier about Sadiq Khan's appointment. read this on the way home.

Sadiq Khan appoints women in two of his three top roles

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/sa ... 55346.html

Notice that all of his team so far have been democratically elected either as councillors or AM.

And then this:

The new Mayor has taken two weeks to announce his first tranche of big jobs but insiders said the delay was because he was keen to get them right.

Boris Johnson suffered the indignity of losing several key members of his team in the first weeks of his mayoralty in part because he rushed into appointments.

and also because they were his chums whose dodgy pasts he hadn't bothered to check out first.

All being well, there won't be any journalists or think tank wonkery people.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 24 May, 2016 11:01 pm

Éoin Retweeted
Mr Ethical ‏@nw_nicholas 50m50 minutes ago
I have seen the evidence @LabourEoin thought would be exposed today. It is a big story. I don't understand the delay or secrecy.

@RobertSnozers

I think you might be entitled to say 'I told you so' re your theory that there was a big story meant to come out today alongside the people's campaign launch.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 24 May, 2016 11:34 pm

goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 25 May, 2016 3:02 am

Off my trolleyish.-hopefully.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 25 May, 2016 3:10 am

Didn't see the deleted offending post which is frustrating,twice over because of puzzlement of people thanking it.Hey ho.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 25 May, 2016 3:19 am

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016 ... n_b-gdnedu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More youngsters shut out of work or training, study finds
Long-term analysis says official statistics underplay larger proportion of young people shut out of work, education and training

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 25 May, 2016 3:21 am

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/m ... of-bailout" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Eurozone unlocks €10.3bn bailout loan for Greece
Marathon meeting in Brussels ends in agreement after IMF waters down its demands to placate Germany and payment is split into two tranches

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 25 May, 2016 3:23 am

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... referendum" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IFS warns Brexit would extend austerity for two more years
Thinktank says lower growth and extra borrowing would offset any benefits from halting what it claims is the £150m a week UK contribution to Brussels

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 25 May, 2016 3:41 am

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/ ... g-olympics" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GB athletes set to pick up 2008 Olympic medals won by Russian dope cheats
• Goldie Sayers and 4x400m men’s relay team could be awarded bronze medals
• Of 14 Russian retrospective dopers from Beijing 11 are track and field athletes

I was in the World Students Games Marathon in 1991,it would only take 1,343 disqualifications in order for me to get a medal.

1.I wasn't a student
2.Competitors gained automatic entry by running the previous years Sheffield Marathon.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 25 May, 2016 3:54 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-no ... e-36371498" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

'Flawed' benefits test criticised by double transplant patient

During the half-hour visit from the DWP, she "didn't even leave the room," he said.
"She didn't even leave the settee but for a metre to stand up and bend over, that was it."

The letter sent to Mrs Forster, seen by the BBC, said: "A musculoskeletal examination showed that you ... completed all movements at a normal pace with no pain, discomfort or breathlessness.
"You said you have difficulties with moving around, but I have decided you can stand and then move more than 200 metres as the examination showed no significant restrictions and no breathlessness was observed."

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 25 May, 2016 4:22 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07bzdbz" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Punctuation
Word of Mouth
Michael Rosen talks to Keith Houston about punctuation symbols and how they came to exist. Keith is the author of Shady Characters: Ampersands, Interrobangs and Other Typographical Curiosities.