Saturday 25th and Sunday 26th June 2016

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 1:40 pm

How odd - I;m getting that problem with Tinypic where what I upload isn't what gets posted.

Anyway, this looks spot on.

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mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 1:41 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:This isn't going to end well...

Isn't anyone going to break it to them that being in or out of the EU has nothing to do with it? That they've been lied to all along?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 1:42 pm

PorFavor wrote:David Cameron - "caretaker" Prime Minister? I get the "taker" bit - but "care"?

Edited - quotes moved

Care taker. Same wages without 'doing the 'hard shit'.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 1:42 pm

Labour should come up with their own blueprint for the "exit" thing and show that someone is prepared to be the grown-up. No-one else seems to be volunteering (despite continuing to take the pay-cheque). As commentators keep saying - there is a vacuum. A golden opportunity to fill it and capitalise on this fiasco. Make something good of it.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 1:43 pm

UKIP could maybe rename themselves FFAWB(AWNKOTJE)

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 1:43 pm

Willow904 wrote:Corbyn really isn't that relevant right now. Why are the media obsessing about a couple of grumpy Labour backbenchers? They're the opposition ffs. This wouldn't be a story if any other party were involved.

In the meantime, where on earth is our Chancellor? We are facing stormy economic times as a result of a momentous vote and he hasn't made a single statement. He has disappeared and the media haven't even asked where he is, what's he doing to reassure markets, what are the implications of the Moody's downgrade etc, etc. So many questions for our Chancellor yet not a single journo anxious to ask them of him. WTF?

The MSM reminding us how fucking useless they are. I blame them almost as much as the Tories for this disaster.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 1:45 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:How odd - I;m getting that problem with Tinypic where what I upload isn't what gets posted.

Anyway, this looks spot on.

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I'm having trouble with my "g" key. Unless I remain vigilant, I fear that I may turn into Priti Patel.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 1:47 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:When Nigel calls to arms the Nigels Model Army will be prepared

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ws-relaxed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
ScreenShot01438.jpg

I was polled by YouGov a couple of weeks ago, and one of the questions was whether I supported the death penalty. Maybe I was being overly suspicious, but I did wonder at the time who would want to know that as the death penalty has thankfully been off the political agenda for a long time.

I am wondering now whether polling on executing murderers was done on it to see if UKIP, or a further right Tory post-Brexit government, could attract populist votes on the back of Britain's move to the right.
Can imagine Murdoch hovering in the background to demand filming rights.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 1:52 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:This isn't going to end well...

I'm sorry. But anyone who voted Leave if they believed that was an idiot.
My brush will slim down in a few days.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 1:54 pm

No sign of Osborne. One wonders whether he's over done 'something.'

Gove's conspicuous by his absence too.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 1:55 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Rebecca wrote:
PorFavor wrote:I had hoped that he would have "trained up" and pushed forward a viable replacement.
Good lord.
Trained up a replacement(who?)and be party leader,fighting off the media,blairites and the tories,referendum in 9 months?
Don't you think that is expecting a bit much?
No - not really.

That's John McDonnell. Allegedly.

The paradox of this infuriates me. On the one hand Corbyn gets criticised for not being prominent enough and on the other he gets criticised for not preparing the ground for a successor, which by necessity means letting others hog the spotlight at times. Well, he's been doing the latter rather more than he gets credit for because he actually lets other MPs - rightly - get airtime, including those opposed to him like Kinnock and Eagle... which is on the job training as a potential successor. That's everyone from the up and comings like De Piero and Creasy to the old lags like McDonnell and Benn. We've seen more positive action from front and back bench Labour MPs in the past 9 months than we saw during the entirety of Miliband's tenure.

Am I the only person who has noticed this? Leadership isn't just about being the only person to be seen on the TV.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:00 pm

France orders Britain to get new PM 'in days' as Europe reels from Brexit vote

FRANCE today ordered Britain to appoint a new Prime Minister within “a few days” as the founding members of the EU ganged up to tell the UK to urgently quit the bloc following the Brexit vote.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/ ... on-cameron" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:02 pm

I'm beginning to feel hysterical laughter boiling up in my throat. I'm just trying to find any mention of ministers making statements or giving us an inkling of what's going to happen. And so far there's nothing...

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:02 pm

PS. And this reminds me of what I believe was the most fundamental error of Miliband - not ensuring that others in the Party got their time in the limelight, not ensuring that voters could relate to at least one person in the Party, if they could not relate to him. It made the election all about Miliband, not about the policies.

Edit: of course the other fundamental error was that many of those others - Twigg, Hunt, Bradshaw, etc - were completely flipping useless.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:04 pm

Just signed the petition - 1,445,000 plus signatures

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:04 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:PS. And this reminds me of what I believe was the most fundamental error of Miliband - not ensuring that others in the Party got their time in the limelight, not ensuring that voters could relate to at least one person in the Party, if they could not relate to him. It made the election all about Miliband, not about the policies.

As much as I was extremely pro Ed Milband, you may have a point there.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:09 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:PS. And this reminds me of what I believe was the most fundamental error of Miliband - not ensuring that others in the Party got their time in the limelight, not ensuring that voters could relate to at least one person in the Party, if they could not relate to him. It made the election all about Miliband, not about the policies.

Edit: of course the other fundamental error was that many of those others - Twigg, Hunt, Bradshaw, etc - were completely flipping useless.

And some also refused to accept him and ceaselessly undermined him. Including people on his front bench.....<cough> Jim Murphy <cough>

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:09 pm

PorFavor wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:PS. And this reminds me of what I believe was the most fundamental error of Miliband - not ensuring that others in the Party got their time in the limelight, not ensuring that voters could relate to at least one person in the Party, if they could not relate to him. It made the election all about Miliband, not about the policies.
As much as I was extremely pro Ed Milband, you may have a point there.

I very much liked Ed Miliband. He would have made a damned fine Prime Minister if he had won, but only IF the Blairites would have let him. And, let's face it, they really would not have.

My admiration for Miliband has increased since the election having seen what the latter have done to Corbyn. No wonder he struggled so much with his message when behind the scenes there were so many poisonous arseholes on the right of the Party, constantly pissing in his chips.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:10 pm

GetYou wrote:
Willow904 wrote:Corbyn really isn't that relevant right now. Why are the media obsessing about a couple of grumpy Labour backbenchers? They're the opposition ffs. This wouldn't be a story if any other party were involved.

In the meantime, where on earth is our Chancellor? We are facing stormy economic times as a result of a momentous vote and he hasn't made a single statement. He has disappeared and the media haven't even asked where he is, what's he doing to reassure markets, what are the implications of the Moody's downgrade etc, etc. So many questions for our Chancellor yet not a single journo anxious to ask them of him. WTF?
The MSM reminding us how fucking useless they are. I blame them almost as much as the Tories for this disaster.

This is me

I'm that angry with the MSM right now.

The country has spoken but the stupid, stupid man who asked the question has run away. The chancellor is awol. Article 50 hasn't been invoked. The EU can't make us leave and the ongoing uncertainty threatens to tear it apart so what are our media doing? They're sitting around going " ooh, I wonder who the next Tory PM might be" !?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:13 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:PS. And this reminds me of what I believe was the most fundamental error of Miliband - not ensuring that others in the Party got their time in the limelight, not ensuring that voters could relate to at least one person in the Party, if they could not relate to him. It made the election all about Miliband, not about the policies.

Edit: of course the other fundamental error was that many of those others - Twigg, Hunt, Bradshaw, etc - were completely flipping useless.
And some also refused to accept him and ceaselessly undermined him. Including people on his front bench.....<cough> Jim Murphy <cough>

Yes that same band of malcontents who kept bringing up the leadership contest with his brother. And I bet when they're not bashing Corbyn, they still wistfully look back and hanker for what might have been.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:16 pm

mbc1955 wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:This isn't going to end well...

Isn't anyone going to break it to them that being in or out of the EU has nothing to do with it? That they've been lied to all along?

Lots of people on the timeline have done just that (without the capital letters too). It's one of the greatest fur cup vignettes I've seen so far.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:20 pm

Can we demand an election due to the non-appearance and inaction of elected cabinet? Surely, even if for the sake of the money markets it's rapidly becoming a national emergency? Is there anything that covers an event like this?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:27 pm

Reformatted the net migration numbers so that it makes it easier to read. This is Cameron's failure - if he was serious about his "tens of thousands" pledge that non-EU figure would have had to have come down to zero or even go negative (more leaving than coming in).

His failure to get to grips with it or even admit that he couldn't is behind the rage shown on that tweet above.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:29 pm

Nigel Farage has reacted with fury after Vote Leave said it would exclude him from a cross-party committee which will negotiate Britain’s exit from the European Union.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06 ... rom-the-e/

[hysterical]

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:32 pm

yahyah wrote:Maybe that's where Labour need to start from in rebuilding support.

How has the working person got so divorced from any basic level of political consciousness as to believe right wingers care about public services and the NHS ? Why did they not recognise that the NHS was being used, in conjunction with anti-immigration rhetoric, as a political tool ?

I made the mistake of thinking if I explained the truth to people, that'd be enough.
- from The Ragged-Trousered Philanthropists

Good-afternoon, everyone.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:37 pm

I shall laugh like a drain if Scotland (should the situation arise) get offered a better deal from the EU than the one David Cameron wittered on about endlessy.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:41 pm

Topshop tycoon Sir Philip Green loses around £365m on Brexit Friday as billionaires feel the pinch

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... -brexit-v/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:41 pm

I shall be interested to see what effect Jonathan Hill's resignation (although he was careful to make (or was allowed to make) his announcement on a Saturday) on the finance markets etc.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:41 pm

Got to love this June weather. It's just started hailing.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:42 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Topshop tycoon Sir Philip Green loses around £365m on Brexit Friday as billionaires feel the pinch

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... -brexit-v/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Every cloud . . . .

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:43 pm

PorFavor wrote:I shall laugh like a drain if Scotland (should the situation arise) get offered a better deal from the EU than the one David Cameron wittered on about endlessy.

Good for her. She's showing who's in charge.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:44 pm

refitman wrote:Got to love this June weather. It's just started hailing.

Torrential rain, thunder and lightning here. Again.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:44 pm

refitman wrote:Got to love this June weather. It's just started hailing.

Thunder and lightning here again for the past 30 minutes or so. Flamimg June...

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:44 pm

citizenJA wrote:
yahyah wrote:Maybe that's where Labour need to start from in rebuilding support.

How has the working person got so divorced from any basic level of political consciousness as to believe right wingers care about public services and the NHS ? Why did they not recognise that the NHS was being used, in conjunction with anti-immigration rhetoric, as a political tool ?
I made the mistake of thinking if I explained the truth to people, that'd be enough.
- from The Ragged-Trousered Philanthropists

Good-afternoon, everyone.

I think that is the direction Labour have been and should be moving. That is where Corbyn has been important. Whether or not he stays is irrelevant, whatever happens that direction needs to be maintained

The problem is with the critics is that they want to take Labour in another direction and focus on the symptom (anti-immigration) rather than the cause - austerity and wealth inequality

That is why Corbyn has to be supported against the likes of Coffey, Hodge and Bradshaw.....

Who can replace him?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:47 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
refitman wrote:Got to love this June weather. It's just started hailing.
Thunder and lightning here again for the past 30 minutes or so. Flamimg June...

Hail, rain, a bit of thunder and I'm cold!

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:47 pm

Ouch, but this thread is brutal. And piercingly accurate, sorry John.

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gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:48 pm

ohsocynical wrote:No sign of Osborne. One wonders whether he's over done 'something.'

Gove's conspicuous by his absence too.

I assume Osborne is curled up in a dark room out of his skull since Friday morning.
Probably can't even string two words together, let alone run the country.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:52 pm

Fwiw, this is something I wrote back on 6 May:

In response to SGT123
Serious question for Corbyn devotees .
How are you going to get your man sufficiently popular with moderate Tory voters that they can look at him and think I can see him as Prime Minister.
If you can't think of a way or simply don't want to bother to try it looks dismal for 2020 without a change of leader.
Simple answer - make the Labour Party far more than just one person*. It needs a broad spread of well known, articulate spokespeople, not dependency on just the leader being on TV all the time. Give other MPs the space to develop an identity, and become a Party again instead of a cult of personality (which was the fatal flaw of Miliband's Labour). If Corbyn fails, then make sure there's someone else with some talent to replace him that the whole party can back, not just one clique within it. However, that approach is completely dependent on all wings of the party acting in good faith for the Party rather than themselves.

The other part is to start articulating and implementing the democratisation of the Party that he promised. The Members need to be given a voice - not total control but a representative voice - rather than being treated with complete contempt by the PLP like now.

The right wing of the Party also needs to rediscover what it means to be a Labour MP and start offering something more than, 'waaaaah, he's awful, we should just be doing what the Tories are doing'. They need to realise how ridiculous that approach has become.

Conversely, Corbyn's team need to sharpen up their message and articulate a vision that captures people's imagination. They need to pick three or four key areas and hammer their solutions for them into people's consciousness- solutions that the Tories can't steal.

* I don't know if anyone else has noticed it, but this is actually what has been happening. I now know of more Labour MPs, see more of them, hear more from them than at any point during Miliband's tenure. And it's only been 8 months. Corbyn has deliberately been keeping out of the spotlight at times so that this can happen.

[In a follow up post] I should have added: increase the Membership even more. The centre and the right wing of the party need to pull in far more of their share too. To do that they - and the right in particular - need to make themselves much more appealing than they have been. If we want Labour to be represented by its centre rather than its left or right, we need it to have more members - and more talented MPs - that are based there, bell curve style. The Party is too lopsided at the moment with a PLP dominated by to many people on the right and left and not enough in the middle.

So it appears I'm still stuck in the same refrain.

Edit: I wouldn't describe myself as a Corbyn devotee per se. He's the wrong man at the right time because there wasn't a right man or woman. And still isn't.

But no one else responded to SGT123 and I had some spare time on my hands.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 2:56 pm

One and a half million votes calling for another referendum. I don't think there's a chance in hell of it happening, but supposing there was. Wouldn't the delay in any sort of action from the government considerably lessen the chances because of the damage it's doing to money markets?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 3:00 pm

ohsocynical wrote:One and a half million votes calling for another referendum. I don't think there's a chance in hell of it happening, but supposing there was. Wouldn't the delay in any sort of action from the government considerably lessen the chances because of the damage it's doing to money markets?

Cameron has already announced that the government isn't going to even think about leaving the EU until they've had a leadership contest, thus guaranteeing uncertainty until at least October. They seem to have no interest in economic stability at all.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 3:00 pm

NonOxCol wrote:Ouch, but this thread is brutal. And piercingly accurate, sorry John.

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John Harris's pieces do tend to be of the, "look at these funny northerners and their funny, simple northern ways", don't they?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 3:00 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote: That is why Corbyn has to be supported against the likes of Coffey, Hodge and Bradshaw.....

Who can replace him?

Dan Jarvis.

None of the tabloids would dare go against him with his background. Also has an MA in Conflict, Security & Development from King's College London.

Last time he needed to put family first so presumably needs to be convinced to run this time.

The other one is Keir Starmer. May be too much of the "metropolitan elite" to attract back northern working class votes.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 3:01 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Reformatted the net migration numbers so that it makes it easier to read. This is Cameron's failure - if he was serious about his "tens of thousands" pledge that non-EU figure would have had to have come down to zero or even go negative (more leaving than coming in).

His failure to get to grips with it or even admit that he couldn't is behind the rage shown on that tweet above.

Look where the figure drops off in 2012 in the non-EU category. That's when the Home Office required proof of an annual income of at least £18,600 from a UK citizen, from employment within the UK, in order to allow his/her non-EU partner/spouse to be granted leave to remain in the UK. Spouses' income not considered. It meant a UK citizen had to find UK employment for at least a year making £18,600 (more if there were dependants without UK citizenship) prior to receiving permission for their spouse to remain in the UK. No matter how long a marriage, the rules changed and UK citizens living outside the UK could no longer move back to the UK with their non-EU spouse without proving a yearly income equal to or greater than the figure I've quoted or nearly £100,000 in a verifiable bank account with the applicants' name on it for at least 6 months. Any children without verifiable UK citizenship status made the income and/or untethered cash savings requirements from the UK citizen significantly more. A permanent UK address, of course, was mandatory as well. The rules were challenged in court. I'm not sure how much it cost Tory government to partially succeed getting this law to stick. A lot. Thousands of individuals are still in limbo without their cases successfully decided one way or another. I don't know if it saved the UK any money. I doubt it. The ruptures it caused UK citizens' families are tragic.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 3:03 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:Fwiw, this is something I wrote back on 6 May:

In response to SGT123
Serious question for Corbyn devotees .
How are you going to get your man sufficiently popular with moderate Tory voters that they can look at him and think I can see him as Prime Minister.
If you can't think of a way or simply don't want to bother to try it looks dismal for 2020 without a change of leader.
Simple answer - make the Labour Party far more than just one person*. It needs a broad spread of well known, articulate spokespeople, not dependency on just the leader being on TV all the time. Give other MPs the space to develop an identity, and become a Party again instead of a cult of personality (which was the fatal flaw of Miliband's Labour). If Corbyn fails, then make sure there's someone else with some talent to replace him that the whole party can back, not just one clique within it. However, that approach is completely dependent on all wings of the party acting in good faith for the Party rather than themselves.

The other part is to start articulating and implementing the democratisation of the Party that he promised. The Members need to be given a voice - not total control but a representative voice - rather than being treated with complete contempt by the PLP like now.

The right wing of the Party also needs to rediscover what it means to be a Labour MP and start offering something more than, 'waaaaah, he's awful, we should just be doing what the Tories are doing'. They need to realise how ridiculous that approach has become.

Conversely, Corbyn's team need to sharpen up their message and articulate a vision that captures people's imagination. They need to pick three or four key areas and hammer their solutions for them into people's consciousness- solutions that the Tories can't steal.

* I don't know if anyone else has noticed it, but this is actually what has been happening. I now know of more Labour MPs, see more of them, hear more from them than at any point during Miliband's tenure. And it's only been 8 months. Corbyn has deliberately been keeping out of the spotlight at times so that this can happen.

[In a follow up post] I should have added: increase the Membership even more. The centre and the right wing of the party need to pull in far more of their share too. To do that they - and the right in particular - need to make themselves much more appealing than they have been. If we want Labour to be represented by its centre rather than its left or right, we need it to have more members - and more talented MPs - that are based there, bell curve style. The Party is too lopsided at the moment with a PLP dominated by to many people on the right and left and not enough in the middle.
So it appears I'm still stuck in the same refrain.

Edit: I wouldn't describe myself as a Corbyn devotee per se. He's the wrong man at the right time because there wasn't a right man or woman. And still isn't.

But no one else responded to SGT123 and I had some spare time on my hands.

Good points. The snag is that every time a Labour politician makes a media appearance or has a newspaper interview, somehow it always ends up with Corbyn.

Frank Field is a good example. Today of all days, he has a piece in the paper and what's he doing? Criticising Corbyn. It's bloody criminal...He should have been having a go at the Tories with all cylinders firing.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 3:05 pm

ohsocynical wrote:One and a half million votes calling for another referendum. I don't think there's a chance in hell of it happening, but supposing there was. Wouldn't the delay in any sort of action from the government considerably lessen the chances because of the damage it's doing to money markets?

Personally, I think that petition should be calling for a general election not a 2nd referendum. It'd give Labour (and the SNP and Greens) the opportunity to stand on a, "if the EU agrees to the following XYZ reforms and implements them within 5 years, we will not instigate article 50 and we will not leave the EU" platform.

Risky, but it could win them the election.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 3:07 pm

Ah. It's the anti-Phillip Collins. Jeez....

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ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 3:08 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote: That is why Corbyn has to be supported against the likes of Coffey, Hodge and Bradshaw.....

Who can replace him?
Dan Jarvis.

None of the tabloids would dare go against him with his background. Also has an MA in Conflict, Security & Development from King's College London.

Last time he needed to put family first so presumably needs to be convinced to run this time.

The other one is Keir Starmer. May be too much of the "metropolitan elite" to attract back northern working class votes.

I don't like Jarvis. He couldn't resist a bit of stirring against Corbyn not too long ago.

I'd maybe settle for McDonnell. I think he's done well. No one else.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 3:09 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote: That is why Corbyn has to be supported against the likes of Coffey, Hodge and Bradshaw.....

Who can replace him?
Dan Jarvis.

None of the tabloids would dare go against him with his background. Also has an MA in Conflict, Security & Development from King's College London.

Last time he needed to put family first so presumably needs to be convinced to run this time.

The other one is Keir Starmer. May be too much of the "metropolitan elite" to attract back northern working class votes.

Dan Jarvis is a very, very poor performer though. Plus what makes you think the media wouldn't give him a good swift-boating like John Kerry got in the US?

You are seriously underestimating the viscousness of Murdoch and Dacre and their hacks.

And you've hit the main issue with Starmer. But, to be honest, who in the Labour Party would attract back those working class votes? John Mann?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 3:10 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:Ouch, but this thread is brutal. And piercingly accurate, sorry John.

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John Harris's pieces do tend to be of the, "look at these funny northerners and their funny, simple northern ways", don't they?

It's inevitable when stories are complicated instead of simple. Lots of men and women do contract work gigs outside the UK for varying amounts of time to earn money and come back to the UK, for example. Not elite members of a certain class, just regular people making their way the best they can with the laws, transportation, employment, education, housing and wages available to them.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 25 Jun, 2016 3:13 pm

Willow904 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:One and a half million votes calling for another referendum. I don't think there's a chance in hell of it happening, but supposing there was. Wouldn't the delay in any sort of action from the government considerably lessen the chances because of the damage it's doing to money markets?
Cameron has already announced that the government isn't going to even think about leaving the EU until they've had a leadership contest, thus guaranteeing uncertainty until at least October. They seem to have no interest in economic stability at all.

(my bold)

Isn't it great to be independently wealthy? That or have no human needs at all. What do Tory government care?