Saturday 15 and Sunday 16 October 2016

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 3:40 pm

RoT wrote:George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 46s46 seconds ago

Brexit irony: pound's slump will push up prices for Brits and reduce them for tourists.

Yes - that'll show the elite*

*meaning to be determined on a case by case basis.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 3:43 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... riti-patel" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Brexit debate in parliament would give game away to Brussels, says minister

(and would also require having actually developed a game to give away)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 3:47 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/plumm ... 00786.html
Airport (Shanghai: 600463.SS - news) bureaux de change are now offering rates of well below €1 per £1, even though the official “interbank” rate at the time of writing was close to €1.11.

Brexit bargains

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 46s46 seconds ago

Brexit irony: pound's slump will push up prices for Brits and reduce them for tourists.

But if prices here go up (food, fuel, etc etc) surely these increases must be passed on to the customers (ie tourists) who eat, drink, stay in places that have to pay these concomitant higher running costs and so on.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 3:49 pm

lag period?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 3:52 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ard-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Grocer John Papworth is trying to drum up custom at his fruit and veg stall in Chapel Market in Islington, north London, on a sunny Saturday morning. It is hard going. “It’s the only game in the world where the price changes daily, he says. “But now, the pound being so weak is really starting to affect us. I don’t like saying it’s all because of Brexit [which he voted for], but the pound’s fall has definitely made things much worse. Our suppliers have got to pay more, so we’ve got to pay more.”

An elderly woman shopper overhears him and says: “It is all thanks to the people who voted Leave!” At the other end of the market, Peter Fleming, a florist, points to his stock of potted plants which all came from the Netherlands. “It’s this week with the pound stuff that it’s started to really bite. This week it’s gone up 15%. If it gets any worse, we’re going to have to start passing the cost on – or buying less. This is just the start – and all because we’ve voted out.”

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 4:27 pm

Labour MPs call for ballots to signal open dissent against Corbyn

Move would allow backbenchers to highlight areas on which they think Labour leader is out of step with public

Labour backbenchers are preparing to call for a series of MPs’ ballots to signal their dissent from the party’s leadership on policy areas where they believe Jeremy Corbyn is out of step with mainstream public opinion.

Heathrow expansion, which Corbyn opposes, will be the test case for the new approach, which one critical backbencher called “constructively muscular”. If accepted the proposal could see MPs openly defy the official position of their leader. (Guardian)

Haven't read the full article yet. I'm not feeling very constructively muscular, today.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... nst-corbyn

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 5:01 pm

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1518796 ... -on-agency" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The rocketing reliance on agency midwives is totally unsustainable and is a legacy of six years of Tory under investment – Justin Madders

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 5:12 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:thank god for ridiculousness.

Hear! Hear!

Good-afternoon, everyone.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 5:24 pm

BREXIT: THE IMPORTANT ROLE OF THE COURT OF JUSTICE
https://waitingfortax.com/2016/10/16/br ... f-justice/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For political reasons – as I predicted back in June – the Government was loathe to argue that Article 50, once triggered, could nevertheless be reversed. Arguing this would leave our membership of the EU an open book and infect the remainder of the Conservatives’ term in office. The reversibility of the Article 50 case suited the Claimants too. As I have explained above, their legal case that only Parliament could trigger Article 50 is weakened (perhaps fatally) if Article 50 is reversible.

So it seemed as though the question might pass unresolved.

But on Thursday the High Court upset this expedient consensus. The Lord Chief Justice indicated he was not prepared to proceed on a mutual assumption that Article 50 was irreversible. He wanted to decide the point.

the question whether an Article 50 notification is reversible is a question of European law. And that has a striking consequence. Our courts may need to refer the matter to the Court of Justice of the European Union.

!

Second, there will be some media excitement. Imagine the delight of our Fourth Estate at the prospect of the Court of Justice playing a part in determining the mechanics of our decision to leave the European Union.

It's worth reading the whole thing.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 5:30 pm

Not sure why MPs have to be vocally critical. Just ignore Corbyn. On areas, such as Heathrow, where he is a fool just don't vote with him. He needs space in which to fail. Keep quiet. Let the members realise their mistake for themselves.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 5:48 pm

Not sure the Lib Dems should be mentioning the NHS after what they did when in coalition but they may persuade a few people with this ad.
We also seem to be in an era when voters are fond of creating political upsets so who knows ?

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 5:58 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Labour MPs call for ballots to signal open dissent against Corbyn

Move would allow backbenchers to highlight areas on which they think Labour leader is out of step with public

Labour backbenchers are preparing to call for a series of MPs’ ballots to signal their dissent from the party’s leadership on policy areas where they believe Jeremy Corbyn is out of step with mainstream public opinion.

Heathrow expansion, which Corbyn opposes, will be the test case for the new approach, which one critical backbencher called “constructively muscular”. If accepted the proposal could see MPs openly defy the official position of their leader. (Guardian)
Haven't read the full article yet. I'm not feeling very constructively muscular, today.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... nst-corbyn

Ironic, no? On what planet does anyone think that Heathrow expansion is particularly popular with the public? Businesses maybe but Joe Bloggs literally could not give a shit. Especially so anyone outside the M25.

These people have long gone beyond parody. Now they're just intensely pathetic.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 6:22 pm

Irish PM calls Brexit summit to confront looming crisis

Enda Kenny announces unprecedented cross-border talks amid fears over future of Ireland’s borders, exports, security and economy

Irish leaders have warned of an economic “disaster” on both sides of the border without decisive action to confront the effects of Britain’s impending departure from the EU. (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... ing-crisis

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 6:33 pm

Just looked at a list of news on Labour today, in sources ranging from Samizdata weblog to the Guardian and Mail. Of 41 articles published today, 34 were on Labour being a safe haven for anti-semitism and 7 were on 7 other issues:
-Chakrabati's son goes to private school
-Louth Town Labour candidate won
- Labour contemptuous of own voters
- Danczuk
- Boundary review
- Ed Balls
- We laugh at the republicans but Labour's next
http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2016/10/15/su ... ours-next/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

Are "we" perchance focusing on the wrong enemy. And am interested in the definitions used here.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 6:38 pm

has anyone had Yorkshire pudding today? (just asking out of casual interest)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 6:38 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:But I am afraid I think most MPs are a complete waste of space. There just isn't anything very productive for most of them to do. I know they make much of their constituency work, but unless they have the ear of government (and most don't, and opposition MPs certainly don't) there is not much that most of them can practically do. The number of truly able ones is really small. So, I'd pay them a lot more (double) and make it a high prestige role, to try and attract a few better people. I think that requires cutting the numbers. The frontbenches of both main parties present a very sorry sight, and have done for years,

(cJA edit)

Your assessment of opposition MPs' work in Parliament isn't accurate. Opposition MPs' work is at least as rigorous and influential as those MPs' in government. They must be ready to for government leadership tomorrow, should occasion call for it, regardless of Fixed-Term Parliaments. Tory MPs' egregiously inadequate performance requirements in government leadership for over six years combined with Labour's recent internal problems left people and country adrift. That lack creates fear, anger and hardship for people.

Greater prestige and more money won't lead to 'better people' being democratically elected representing UK people competently and professionally. Prestige and money are two not very good promoters of talented Parliamentarians. Prestige and money can't buy talented qualities leaders require. Enough money is essential, for all, at the beginning and throughout the life of each person. Ambition is okay enough if combined with other attributes I like in competent leaders - honesty, integrity, strength of character and dedication serving all, not a few. Some yahoo looking for a prestige job can sell high-profile gadgets. What the hell you want one of those characters in government for?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 6:41 pm

some people take Yorkshire pudding for granted
I have been known to purchase frozen formats for feasibility purposes

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 6:42 pm

CJA - forgive my ignorance: yawp?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 6:42 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:has anyone had Yorkshire pudding today? (just asking out of casual interest)

Chicken, rice and ratatouille. Have a yearning for Yorkshire pudding now, though.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 6:48 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:has anyone had Yorkshire pudding today? (just asking out of casual interest)

No - not today. How are things in the Yorkshire-Pudding-Free-Zone of tinyclanger2ville?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 6:53 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:http://blogs.ft.com/ftdata/2013/08/01/b ... islatures/
people per legistlative body rep - but craftily merges the HoL and HoC for the last graph. Since we don't vote for the HoL it's not relevant with respect to the boundary review. Anyone who can be arsed separating them out be my guest. My expectation is we'd be looking similar to France and Spain - and then it comes down to what the job is. Like I say - the boundary review doesn't make any sense without reviewing the work done/needed doing.

(my emphasis)

I really hate disingenuousness like the kind you've pointed out above. The UK House of Lords isn't a democratically elected body in
any sense of the word and consequently, people can't count on representation there. The fact the House of Lords has been known to
do some good work isn't relevant. Depending upon the succour of unelected aristocrats is a feudal relationship, not a democratically
accountable group of equals. I'm scared to death of the Tory boundary review. Fear siphons energy that could go toward creative
endeavour into shoring up defences instead, for example.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 6:59 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:has anyone had Yorkshire pudding today? (just asking out of casual interest)

Not here - I made pasta with a tomato, onion, red pepper, and kale sauce before my other half went back to work tonight. And I washed up!

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 7:01 pm

Thinking of Yorkshire pudding reminds me that I make a very good toad in the hole - the only problem is that the tin is good for 4 and there's only 2 of us...maybe I need to look for a small baking tin.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 7:03 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Irish PM calls Brexit summit to confront looming crisis

Enda Kenny announces unprecedented cross-border talks amid fears over future of Ireland’s borders, exports, security and economy

Irish leaders have warned of an economic “disaster” on both sides of the border without decisive action to confront the effects of Britain’s impending departure from the EU. (Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... ing-crisis

I'm so sorry. It's unconscionable government jeopardises the lives, work, citizenship and countries with Brexit.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 7:05 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Thinking of Yorkshire pudding reminds me that I make a very good toad in the hole - the only problem is that the tin is good for 4 and there's only 2 of us...maybe I need to look for a small baking tin.

I make toad in the hole with lamb chops. Can't abide it with sausages.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 7:11 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:has anyone had Yorkshire pudding today? (just asking out of casual interest)

No. I'd like some. I just realised I'm hungry.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 7:15 pm

I made scones to last a few days.Of course it was a couple of hours.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 7:19 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Thinking of Yorkshire pudding reminds me that I make a very good toad in the hole - the only problem is that the tin is good for 4 and there's only 2 of us...maybe I need to look for a small baking tin.

Just eat more.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 7:21 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:CJA - forgive my ignorance: yawp?

It's the sound someone makes getting to the top of the high mountain, seeing everything they'd come from below now from the
top, endorphins release exhilarating, happiness creating, all fear gone, the climb burned it all away, it's human, it's being human
and the only thing to say is:

'YYYYYYYyyyyyyyAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaWWWWWWWWwwwwwwwP! I did it...'

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 7:26 pm

Talking about Yorkshire puds.......(from August)

BBC Good FoodVerified account
‏@bbcgoodfood
Sunday roast lovers! Yorkshire puds take on chips in today's #FoodFight - who will you save? https://bbcgoodfood-sides.bracketeers.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 7:27 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:has anyone had Yorkshire pudding today? (just asking out of casual interest)

Yes, just clearing up the Sunday roast now. Chicken, but Yorkshire's accompany all our roasts, the kids love them.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 7:32 pm

v upset. Have just discovered Buxton (Norfolk's) Crown Pub has been closed and there are plans to convert it to "new homes".

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/plans_submi ... _1_4031628" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

this was where I first partook of giant Yorkshire pud with local veg and gravy. thanked the chef for excellence of this new delicacy. all these poncy bleeding gastro pubs and metrosexual (elites) and we can't even keep excellent pubs going.

pah.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 7:36 pm

PorFavor wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:has anyone had Yorkshire pudding today? (just asking out of casual interest)

No - not today. How are things in the Yorkshire-Pudding-Free-Zone of tinyclanger2ville?

downcast

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 7:37 pm

PorFavor wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Thinking of Yorkshire pudding reminds me that I make a very good toad in the hole - the only problem is that the tin is good for 4 and there's only 2 of us...maybe I need to look for a small baking tin.
I make toad in the hole with lamb chops. Can't abide it with sausages.

I see those metropolitan elite ways of yours showing through again ...

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 7:38 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Thinking of Yorkshire pudding reminds me that I make a very good toad in the hole - the only problem is that the tin is good for 4 and there's only 2 of us...maybe I need to look for a small baking tin.
I make toad in the hole with lamb chops. Can't abide it with sausages.
I see those metropolitan elite ways of yours showing through again ...

Ha! My Nan would be puzzled (were she not dead).

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 7:42 pm

No. I think she was cremated - but I can't remember for sure.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 7:43 pm

@tinyclanger2

My last was a reply to your post - which has disappeared.

Edited to add -

Which read: Beryl?

(Just so's the rest of you don't think I've gone bonkers.)

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 7:49 pm

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zea ... -shortages" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?
As New Zealand's construction industry booms, companies have to go overseas to look for skilled workers, and there is plenty of interest.
"We got swamped when the doors opened this morning, and it hasn't slowed down," said Greg Ford from Fletcher Construction at the Down Under Live expo.
Hundreds of people flocked to the recruitment expo near London, many for the same reason.
"After Brexit, I just said 'let's go to New Zealand'," said a woman at the expo looking for a job.

As the Remainer to Leaver ratio declines, what will "Britain" be like one wonders.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 7:50 pm

PorFavor wrote:@tinyclanger2

My last was a reply to your post - which has disappeared.

Edited to add -

Which read: Beryl?

(Just so's the rest of you don't think I've gone bonkers.)

Did it though?

mwwaaahhhaaahhhaaahhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 7:51 pm

I see you have my coat ready.

Tizme1 · Post by **Tizme1** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 7:53 pm

Greetings all,

No Yorkshire puddings at Tiz Towers today @TC2 As I'm planning on roasted veg with garlic and herbs tomorrow, I might make some then now you've planted the idea in my mind.

Anyway, I dropped by to say cooeee @yahyah. I've found a brief article on Caroline's comments regarding a second referendum.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 22221.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 7:55 pm

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor ... h-12032712" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?
Thousands of people including many from the North East are looking for a ‘Plan B’ as the fall out from the European Union referendum vote continues.

With the plunging pound, inflation predicted to rise and question marks about foreign companies like Nissan remaining in the UK, there has been a rush in interest in emigrating.

John Prescott did liken Brexit Britain to the post crash Titanic yesterday. Well done Dave! Not hard at all was it.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 8:04 pm

EU Foreign Affairs Council summit

: all that diversity_where could we possibly be going wrong.jpg (151.36 KiB) Viewed 5372 times

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 8:08 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 64186.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Homer on Trump

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 8:12 pm

PorFavor wrote:I think it was a mistake to elevate Shami Chakrabarti to the House of Lords after having stated that that there would be no names put forward by Labour. Just stupid - and asking for trouble.

Its the original statement there would be no new nominations under Corbyn that was the real mistake IMO.

Being opposed to the HoL in principle is all well and good, but as long as it exists as a branch of our legislature Labour needs to maintain its strength there.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 8:18 pm

These aren’t hard Brexiters. They’re political extremists
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 8:47 pm

Between Sunderland (outers) getting unlimited subsidies (paid to Nissan) and now this to London to keep the financial sector happy, I am fast approaching despair

UK looks at paying billions into EU budget after Brexit
Plan would let finance sector keep single-market access

https://www.ft.com/content/a8ec5e90-938 ... f38d484582" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 8:53 pm

citizenJA wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:But I am afraid I think most MPs are a complete waste of space. There just isn't anything very productive for most of them to do. I know they make much of their constituency work, but unless they have the ear of government (and most don't, and opposition MPs certainly don't) there is not much that most of them can practically do. The number of truly able ones is really small. So, I'd pay them a lot more (double) and make it a high prestige role, to try and attract a few better people. I think that requires cutting the numbers. The frontbenches of both main parties present a very sorry sight, and have done for years,
(cJA edit)

Your assessment of opposition MPs' work in Parliament isn't accurate. Opposition MPs' work is at least as rigorous and influential as those MPs' in government. They must be ready to for government leadership tomorrow, should occasion call for it, regardless of Fixed-Term Parliaments. Tory MPs' egregiously inadequate performance requirements in government leadership for over six years combined with Labour's recent internal problems left people and country adrift. That lack creates fear, anger and hardship for people.

Greater prestige and more money won't lead to 'better people' being democratically elected representing UK people competently and professionally. Prestige and money are two not very good promoters of talented Parliamentarians. Prestige and money can't buy talented qualities leaders require. Enough money is essential, for all, at the beginning and throughout the life of each person. Ambition is okay enough if combined with other attributes I like in competent leaders - honesty, integrity, strength of character and dedication serving all, not a few. Some yahoo looking for a prestige job can sell high-profile gadgets. What the hell you want one of those characters in government for?

I think this is badly wrong, unfortunately. Cooper was excellent on this. There is a great interview with her during the last leadership campaign where she meets someone with serious problems with their benefits, and explains how when Labour were in power she could have done something. Now she can't.

She cried.

Being in power is almost everything.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 8:54 pm

That Heathrow piece. Will Leslie ever shut the f. up? Why is there no reference to Khan's opinion of Heathrow btw?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 16 Oct, 2016 9:26 pm

That's right, opposition Parliamentarians aren't in government, we both agree about that. You wrote you didn't think opposition Parliamentarians do any good when they're not in leadership. The opposition can't legislate from where they sit at the moment but that's different from suggesting they're not doing anything worth anything. You don't like the quality of Members of Parliament either. I want the opposition there when Tory government goes down the hole sooner rather than later. A lot of them are good, diligent and experienced. Paying members more money and conferring more status onto the profession won't get better representation. I want Tory government's boundary review go down the drain with their leadership. I want every opposition member ready to throw themselves into the new task of reversing Tory government disaster and responsibly representing people and country.