Monday 14th September 2015

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 3:00 pm

Global economies aren't looking good.
That's an aside.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 3:00 pm

A bit of lipstick and it's me Dan !

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 3:01 pm

Chris Bryant MP ‏@RhonddaBryant 49s49 seconds ago
Sorry @DMcCaffreySKY but your story about Russia is utter nonsense.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 3:06 pm

May I just interject? Smiles.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 3:12 pm

Blimey. The Telegraph is spitting poison bile all over their front pages.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 3:14 pm

Temulkar wrote:
utopiandreams wrote:
Temulkar wrote:One for Roger http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/38394
May I look too, Tem? Thanks.
Of course, thats just a link that may be interesting for RoT's phd.

It's a great link and an amazing discovery, @Tem. I hope that they manage to preserve the domus (in a way that it remains accessible) beneath the new palazzo, once the site gets handed back to the developer.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 3:15 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Blimey. The Telegraph is spitting poison bile all over their front pages.

It gets more and more like the Mail.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 3:15 pm

@ohsocynical

Perhaps not, ohso, but I have it on good authority that Denis is past it, a bit of a dinosaur.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 3:17 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:... PF, where are you? Shouldn't you be calling yahyah a right smart arse now?

Stop it, ladies, do I really have to step in? I can think of nothing worse than being surrounded by the fairer sex.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 3:19 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
...Turnbull resigned from cabinet and sought support from colleagues by pitching himself as the right person to lead Australia at a time of major economic challenges. He accused the prime minister of being unable to provide the necessary economic leadership, urged colleagues to support a new “style of leadership that respects the people’s intelligence” instead of sloganeering, and promised to restore traditional cabinet government...
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-ne ... party-vote" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh, how I wish ...

On the bit of his press conference that the Beeb covered, live, he said that Australia has a Prime Minister, not a President, and that his Cabinet would be a collegiate one with the Prime Minister as First among Equals.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 3:20 pm

@yahyah

There had to be another half didn't there, yahyah? Hardly a full measure now.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 3:24 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Blimey. The Telegraph is spitting poison bile all over their front pages.

Andrew Sparrow has been dripping it all morning.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 3:27 pm

Rebecca wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Blimey. The Telegraph is spitting poison bile all over their front pages.

Andrew Sparrow has been dripping it all morning.

Hard to tell what he was marinaded in overnight ... was it Tory or Labour source? (coat already donned ...)

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 3:29 pm

Rob Flello retweeted
Stoke-on-Trent CC ‏@SoTCityCouncil 4m4 minutes ago
Our city centre will be hosting a Teenage Market on Sun 20 September 11am-4pm at Hanley Market

That wording seems rather unfortunate to me.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 3:33 pm

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 1h1 hour ago
Will Corbyn's final shadow cabinet help to repair the early damage?http://bit.ly/1LclClE

It is absolutely hammering down outside - rain that is. My leeklets may drown if this carries on.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 3:33 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Rebecca wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Blimey. The Telegraph is spitting poison bile all over their front pages.

Andrew Sparrow has been dripping it all morning.
Hard to tell what he was marinaded in overnight ... was it Tory or Labour source? (coat already donned ...)

Think it was Sky source,aka made up source aka pack of lies

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 3:40 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 1h1 hour ago
Will Corbyn's final shadow cabinet help to repair the early damage?http://bit.ly/1LclClE

It is absolutely hammering down outside - rain that is. My leeklets may drown if this carries on.

Have you seen the forecast for the rest of the week, especially your area? I was wondering whether to look out for second hand diving gear for you and Mr Riots...

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 3:50 pm

Rebecca wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Rebecca wrote:
Andrew Sparrow has been dripping it all morning.
Hard to tell what he was marinaded in overnight ... was it Tory or Labour source? (coat already donned ...)
Think it was Sky source,aka made up source aka pack of lies

Thanks for reminding me, I've got to make up a sauce, a Kung Po sauce. I don't like packs plus it's better left to stand a while.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 3:51 pm

John Healey MPVerified account
‏@JohnHealey_MP

Housing is now a national crisis, so delighted housing now has full status in shadow cabinet and to take on the job

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 3:54 pm

Jon Trickett ‏@jon_trickett 54 mins54 minutes ago

Politics isn't working properly. I am v excited to lead for Labour on constitutional and political reform.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:00 pm

From the G blog - and I heard the segment too.

Paul Kenny, the GMB general secretary, told the World at One that he could envisage his union campaigning for a no vote in the EU referendum. He said the GMB supported the EU, but that was because the EU stood for social protection as well as free movement.

He said it would be wrong for Labour to say it was going to support EU membership regardless of what David Cameron achieved in its renegotiation. And he said that, as far as he understood, that was Jeremy Corbyn’s position too.

This is the issue for me too. Cameron could come back with an absolutely awful outcome from his renegotiation - i.e. completely regressive. You can't just profess total support for an unknown entity. Bit of caution no bad thing in this respect. Can clearly talk about and promote the good bits of the EU - which the social chapter / workers rights etc belong to - whilst waiting to see what Cameron's bargaining achieves, if anything.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:03 pm

Kevin Maguire retweeted
Jo Stevens ‏@JoStevensLabour 1m1 minute ago
Govt relying on the #CarrReview as justification for #TUBill That'd be the review that had to be abandoned due to lack of evidence. Pathetic

Rob Merrick ‏@Rob_Merrick 6m6 minutes ago
Occupations where strikes illegal without backing of 40% of workers will not be revealed until Trade Union Bill reaches Lords, Javid says

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:08 pm

Beth Rigby ‏@BethRigby 1m1 minute ago
In HoC for #tradeunionbill. Former shadow ministers nowhere to be seen - apart from Hunt -- though Alan Johnson sitting on very back bench.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:10 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:From the G blog - and I heard the segment too.

Paul Kenny, the GMB general secretary, told the World at One that he could envisage his union campaigning for a no vote in the EU referendum. He said the GMB supported the EU, but that was because the EU stood for social protection as well as free movement.

He said it would be wrong for Labour to say it was going to support EU membership regardless of what David Cameron achieved in its renegotiation. And he said that, as far as he understood, that was Jeremy Corbyn’s position too.
This is the issue for me too. Cameron could come back with an absolutely awful outcome from his renegotiation - i.e. completely regressive. You can't just profess total support for an unknown entity. Bit of caution no bad thing in this respect. Can clearly talk about and promote the good bits of the EU - which the social chapter / workers rights etc belong to - whilst waiting to see what Cameron's bargaining achieves, if anything.
The problem - well, one of the many problems - with the scenario with the EU is that there is likely to be no referendum on Cameron's areas of renegotiation. What the Tories regard as progress, many might regard as retrograde, especially if they erode things like social and employment protection. I can see a bizarre situation of people who broadly support the EU now voting to come out rather than remain in a hollowed-out trading bloc with more protection for business than for the workers they rely on.

Yes exactly. And one of the other big problems is the state of flux the EU is currently in. It feels like many aspects of it that have been taken as 'givens' might just implode, be suspended or changed.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:17 pm

Chris Bryant MP ‏@RhonddaBryant 43s44 seconds ago
Perhaps the most disturbing aspect of @sajidjavid speech is suggestion striking workers should wear distinguishing arm bands.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:18 pm

Steve McCabe ‏@steve_mccabe 1m1 minute ago
Sec of State attacking union facilities time. Ministers paid as MPs & ministers (twice by taxpayer)& not required to account for their time

Rob Flello retweeted
Jo Stevens ‏@JoStevensLabour 8m8 minutes ago
BIS Secretary has just called working people "stupid" and "lazy" #TUBill

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:22 pm

yahyah wrote:A bit of lipstick and it's me Dan !

But, but, but, I thought you had long curly blonde hair! I have no idea why I thought that, but I did. (I'm sure that we all imagine each other to look quite different than we do. Don't we? Anyone?)

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:24 pm

This is the final verse of "A hard rain's a-gonna fall" -

"And what'll you do now, my blue-eyed son?
What'll you do now, my darling young one?
I'm a-going back out 'fore the rain starts a-fallin'
I'll walk to the depths of the deepest black forest
Where the people are many and their hands are all empty
Where the pellets of poison are flooding their waters
Where the home in the valley meets the dark damp prison
And the executioners face is always well hidden
Where hunger is ugly, where souls are forgotten
Where black is the colour, where none is the number
And I'll tell it and think it and speak it and breathe it
And reflect it from the mountain so all souls can see it
Then I'll stand on the ocean till I start sinkin'
But I'll know my song well before I start singin'
And it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard,
It's hard rain's a-gonna fall....."

Bob Dylan, 1962.

Some think that the lyrics are god asking his son what he has seen and what will he do; some think it's about nuclear power, war, pollution.
Dylan himself said of the "pellets of poison" he meant "all the lies people get told on their radios and in their newspapers".
Allen Ginsberg wept when he heard the song for the first time - " 'Cause it seemed the torch had been passed to a new generation".

Two years later he wrote "The times they are a-changing". A few weeks later, President Kennedy was assassinated.

All this happened more than 50 years ago. Half a century later, we haven't learned much, have we?
I hope that all the political upheavals that are going on everywhere will, this time, make people see what they are doing.
I hope that people can come together and work together and save us from ourselves.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:28 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Rob Flello retweeted
Stoke-on-Trent CC ‏@SoTCityCouncil 4m4 minutes ago
Our city centre will be hosting a Teenage Market on Sun 20 September 11am-4pm at Hanley Market
That wording seems rather unfortunate to me.

Yeah, damn it, he's a good guy, Flello...he'd draw a blank at first if we brought it to his attention, then he'd hang his head - only for a moment, he lives and learns.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:29 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:
yahyah wrote:A bit of lipstick and it's me Dan !
But, but, but, I thought you had long curly blonde hair! I have no idea why I thought that, but I did. (I'm sure that we all imagine each other to look quite different than we do. Don't we? Anyone?)

There are pictures of some of us somewhere here.......

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:30 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:... Why not just brand them with hot irons?

Quite so, Robert. They could use bar codes nowadays too, preferably on the forehead. It saves unnecessary expense on facial recognition software too.

Btw do I call you Lord now or did you once play draughts?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:30 pm

citizenJA wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Rob Flello retweeted
Stoke-on-Trent CC ‏@SoTCityCouncil 4m4 minutes ago
Our city centre will be hosting a Teenage Market on Sun 20 September 11am-4pm at Hanley Market
That wording seems rather unfortunate to me.
Yeah, damn it, he's a good guy, Flello...he'd draw a blank at first if we brought it to his attention, then he'd hang his head - only for a moment, he lives and learns.

To be fair to Flello the wording has come from Stoke Council citizen. He's just retweeting it out. But it really doesn't read well!

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:32 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:
yahyah wrote:A bit of lipstick and it's me Dan !
But, but, but, I thought you had long curly blonde hair! I have no idea why I thought that, but I did. (I'm sure that we all imagine each other to look quite different than we do. Don't we? Anyone?)

Isn't that why films are never as good as the book, LadyC?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:33 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Beth Rigby ‏@BethRigby 1m1 minute ago
In HoC for #tradeunionbill. Former shadow ministers nowhere to be seen - apart from Hunt -- though Alan Johnson sitting on very back bench.

Wonder if they're licking their wounds, and in the cold light of Monday, wondering whether they've been a bit rash especially in light of 22,000 members in just over two days?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:38 pm

Coming out of the EU, would be akin to turning our backs on those poor refugees wouldn't it?

I can't see JC doing that somehow.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:40 pm

The Rt. Hon. Angela Eagle is damned fine at the Despatch Box

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:41 pm

@citizenJA

Tried a quote but to no avail, JA. I was going to retort with something along the lines of better keep quiet then lest he forget where he hung it.

Far more importantly though was remembering what I once thought of Ham Face, likening him to Kryten with a wardrobe full of spare heads. Rather than polish Daddy's shoes before bed his kiddies have to shine them instead. The problem is they keep on dropping them, which explains why they're all so bloody useless.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:44 pm

Jo Stevens ‏@JoStevensLabour 5m5 minutes ago
#TUBill being ripped apart by @angelaeagle Govt smothering trade unions in blue tape

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:44 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:From the G blog - and I heard the segment too.

Paul Kenny, the GMB general secretary, told the World at One that he could envisage his union campaigning for a no vote in the EU referendum. He said the GMB supported the EU, but that was because the EU stood for social protection as well as free movement.

He said it would be wrong for Labour to say it was going to support EU membership regardless of what David Cameron achieved in its renegotiation. And he said that, as far as he understood, that was Jeremy Corbyn’s position too.
This is the issue for me too. Cameron could come back with an absolutely awful outcome from his renegotiation - i.e. completely regressive. You can't just profess total support for an unknown entity. Bit of caution no bad thing in this respect. Can clearly talk about and promote the good bits of the EU - which the social chapter / workers rights etc belong to - whilst waiting to see what Cameron's bargaining achieves, if anything.
The problem - well, one of the many problems - with the scenario with the EU is that there is likely to be no referendum on Cameron's areas of renegotiation. What the Tories regard as progress, many might regard as retrograde, especially if they erode things like social and employment protection. I can see a bizarre situation of people who broadly support the EU now voting to come out rather than remain in a hollowed-out trading bloc with more protection for business than for the workers they rely on.

Hasn't the wording on the UK's EU referendum been agreed upon already?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:48 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:The Rt. Hon. Angela Eagle is damned fine at the Despatch Box

I can just imagine her; the woman is extraordinary.
I have to wait to watch it - no live stream, no licence.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:49 pm

utopiandreams wrote:@citizenJA

Tried a quote but to no avail, JA. I was going to retort with something along the lines of better keep quiet then lest he forget where he hung it.

Far more importantly though was remembering what I once thought of Ham Face, likening him to Kryten with a wardrobe full of spare heads. Rather than polish Daddy's shoes before bed his kiddies have to shine them instead. The problem is they keep on dropping them, which explains why they're all so bloody useless.

Apologies, utopiandreams, I don't understand the reference.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:52 pm

Dear oh dear ... Alec Shelbrooke MP (Conservative). Unions don't do any work on behalf of workers and business relations apparently - all they are are cash cows for Marxists.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:56 pm

Wayne David ‏@WayneDavid_MP 2m2 minutes ago
Tory TU Bill totally taken apart by @angelaeagle . Good speech showing that this is a vindictive, undemocratic Bill.

Christian DeFeo ‏@doctorcdf 12m12 minutes ago
Particularly given @angelaeagle is less than 24 hours into the job, this is a very impressive performance. #TUBill

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:56 pm

The news headlines reported at the other place are appalling.
Half-heard, bits of rumour dressed up as topics worthy of an entire article.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:58 pm

I don't recall who it was that linked to the Huff Post's Sun headlines. Yep pretty much how I remember them.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:59 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 1h1 hour ago
Will Corbyn's final shadow cabinet help to repair the early damage?http://bit.ly/1LclClE

It is absolutely hammering down outside - rain that is. My leeklets may drown if this carries on.

Could you raid a recycling bank for plastic bottles and cut the bottoms off them then plonk them over the leeklets as cloches? I suggest this as an alternative to my first idea which was to make little umbrellas for them out of oiled silk, stretched and stitched over carefully re-bent wire coathangers, and with handles loving carved from dwarf walking-stick cabbage stalks.

Photograph of giant walking-stick cabbages for illustrative purposes. Imagine them being tiny.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 5:00 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Wayne David ‏@WayneDavid_MP 2m2 minutes ago
Tory TU Bill totally taken apart by @angelaeagle . Good speech showing that this is a vindictive, undemocratic Bill.

Christian DeFeo ‏@doctorcdf 12m12 minutes ago
Particularly given @angelaeagle is less than 24 hours into the job, this is a very impressive performance. #TUBill

Eagle started working there almost twenty years ago

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 5:04 pm

@citizenJA

Sorry, JA, as I said I had tried quoting you but my browser hung... and in usual fashion I'd forgotten the name. Anyway, Flello hanging his head was what I referred to, but as I say insults directed at our acting PM are far more important.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 5:09 pm

citizenJA wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Wayne David ‏@WayneDavid_MP 2m2 minutes ago
Tory TU Bill totally taken apart by @angelaeagle . Good speech showing that this is a vindictive, undemocratic Bill.

Christian DeFeo ‏@doctorcdf 12m12 minutes ago
Particularly given @angelaeagle is less than 24 hours into the job, this is a very impressive performance. #TUBill
Eagle started working there almost twenty years ago

Yeah she is a very experienced politician - but I think he means to praise her for how quickly she's picked up and presented this particular brief. And I think that is very much to her credit - especially given all the change and hoo ha going on around her.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 14 Sep, 2015 5:09 pm

citizenJA wrote:... Hasn't the wording on the UK's EU referendum been agreed upon already?

I believe it has, JA, but does it not trouble you who's doing the negotiating on our behalf? God knows what mess he'll make of it. I'd be pissing myself if it weren't so serious but I gather he needs no help with that.