Friday 18th September 2015

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 7:40 pm

This is pretty worrying to me. McDonnell getting important facts wrong last night on Question Time.

https://fullfact.org/factcheck/economy/ ... ages-48158" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Might be slips of the tongue, could be a sign of carelessness or worse?

I think we have to be wary of the idea that the Left are necessarily any better than anyone else with facts.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 7:42 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: And please note they are all wearing ties ...
Did Tory government make that a law?
Mandatory tie?
There has been a lot of media hooha over Corbyn not wearing, or knowing how to properly wear, a tie ....

The picture was taken a year ago.
Please accept my apologies, RR2.
I should have looked at the image and read the note above the picture prior to making a (poor) joke.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 7:48 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Gareth Thomas ‏@GarethThomasMP 3m3 minutes ago
London Council sets up as a private landlord to offer lower-rent homes = good move by Lab led Barking & Dagenham http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/s ... e-landlord" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Some London councils (including uber-Tory, Westminster) have been buying back ex-council homes to save on housing benefit costs. I might have done that instead.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 7:59 pm

Bonnie Greer ‏@Bonn1eGreer 17 mins17 minutes ago London, England

And the press can come out of therapy now:-#Corbyn is doing #marr on Sun, 27th.
He's now : #normal

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 7:59 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:3,000 jobs lost with the closure of the steel plant in Redcar.

That's tough. Very tough.

It's bloody disastrous. It's all the knock-on jobs at risk, too. Somehow, we were still managing to produce 50% of the steel we use in the UK.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 8:02 pm

Good Evening

Watching rugby, didn't sing that horrible dirge...isn't it the worst national anthem there is! Go Jeremy!

Also pictures of the royal parasites singing along...of course, the want the God to save Brenda - it is where they get all their money from due to all the land stolen from the people by her syphilitic ancestors

PS I am a republican...if you weren't aware already

edited due to some schoolboy spelling mistakes

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 8:04 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:Good Evening

Watching rugby, didn't sing that horrible dirge...isn't it the worst national anthem there is! Go Jeremy!

Also photos of the royal parasites singing along...of course, the want the God to save Brenda - it is where they get all there money from due to all the land stolen from the people by her syphilitic ancestors

PS I am a republican...if you weren't aware already

I think I might just have guessed Howsilly.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 8:25 pm

Five local council byelections yesterday, a fairly neutral verdict on Labour's new leader overall:

Richmondshire DC - Tory hold, in a close finish they narrowly held off a "Richmondshire Independent" candidate - just as they had in May when (as in 2011) a Tory and generic Independent shared the two seats; the RI's are a long standing group of their own, and last actually won a seat here in 2003 when they saw off the Tories by a single vote. LibDems - who topped the poll then and held their seat in 2007 before losing 4 years later - were clearly in third but upped their share slightly compared to GE day. Labour stood here for the first time this century, but only managed 5%.

South Cambridgeshire DC - safe Tory hold here (as is usually the case, though they were run fairly close by Labour in 2012 and then an Independent two years later) even though their share dropped to under half - there was virtually no swing between them and then second placed Labour since May, though this time the latter were narrowly pipped for second by the LibDems who scored nearly 20% (they were competitive here in 2008 and 2010 before falling away afterwards - as in many other places of course, they came seventh and last in 2014 before sitting it out last time) UKIP 4th with nearly 10%, though this was significantly down on their previous showing two years ago. Greens (who provided the sole opposition to the Tories here back in 2002 and were one of just three choices on GE day) in last place, the extra competition doubtless a factor in the almost two thirds cut in their share since May.

Haringey - two very safe Labour holds; the first (which has only returned a full slate of 3 Labour councillors since 2002, though it was close in 2006 and still fairly tight in 2010) saw a small swing to the LibDems since the full 2014 elections, but a move back to Labour compared with a by-election later that year and the reds still outpolled the yellows by close to 3 to 1. Tories little changed on the last two polls, but still advancing from 5th to 3rd as both the Greens (who scored just over 10% in May '14) and UKIP lost ground. In the other contest (where the LibDems came from nowhere to take 2 out of 3 seats in 2006 before narrowly losing both to Labour four years later) Labour strengthened their already dominant position achieved in 2014, increasing their share to over 60%. LibDems barely changed in a now distant second, and the Tories again moving from 5th to 3rd - but actually increasing their poll this time. And again, Greens (who top candidate outpolled the LibDems two years ago) and UKIP were the losers. Indeed the latter only just edged out TUSC, who got their now customary wooden spoon with just 2%.

South Ayrshire - SNP hold, but they were pushed all the way by the Tories in what is a fairly uncommon marginal between the two parties (it split 2Con/1Nat/1Lab in 2007 and 2Nat/1Con/1Lab in 2012 - even though the Tories narrowly topped the poll in the latter occasion too, on that occasion transfers from Independents did for them) This time, too, Tories led - just - on first preferences only for transfers to make them miss out (narrowly) again. Labour 3rd and seeing their vote fall to 16% - though the swing here was about 7% from Lab to SNP, in line with last weeks polls north of the border but (as then) much lower than seen previously in the spate of vacancies since the GE (is this becoming a trend? The contests in the coming weeks may reveal all) One of the Independent candidates three years ago (slightly down on then) and lastly the Greens - with less than 2% in their first showing here - made up the numbers.

Again five contests to conclude September next week.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 8:31 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:This is pretty worrying to me. McDonnell getting important facts wrong last night on Question Time.

https://fullfact.org/factcheck/economy/ ... ages-48158" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Might be slips of the tongue, could be a sign of carelessness or worse?

I think we have to be wary of the idea that the Left are necessarily any better than anyone else with facts.

"The Trussell Trust aren’t the only organisation running food banks in the UK, so we don’t have an overall figure for the total number of people, or families, fed by food aid providers.
On average, the Trust says its users needed two food bank vouchers annually, so the number of people using its food banks is likely to be around half of the 1.1 million figure.
But using the Trussell Trust figures, it’s wrong to say that a million families use food banks."

https://fullfact.org/factcheck/economy/ ... ages-48158" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Number of people provided with 3 days’ emergency food by TT foodbank in 2014-15:
Children: 396,997
Adults: 687,607
Total: 1,084,604

Nearly 400,000 children were given 3 days emergency food by a Trussell Trust foodbank between April 2014 and March 2015, up 70,000 from the year before.

David McAuley
Chief Executive of The Trussell Trust
25/06/2015
http://www.trusselltrust.org/resources/ ... Survey.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

25/06/2015
Chief Executive David McAuley responds to latest government data on households in poverty Read more
http://www.trusselltrust.org/latest-news" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 8:54 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:This is pretty worrying to me. McDonnell getting important facts wrong last night on Question Time.

https://fullfact.org/factcheck/economy/ ... ages-48158" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Might be slips of the tongue, could be a sign of carelessness or worse?

I think we have to be wary of the idea that the Left are necessarily any better than anyone else with facts.

"The Trussell Trust aren’t the only organisation running food banks in the UK, so we don’t have an overall figure for the total number of people, or families, fed by food aid providers.
On average, the Trust says its users needed two food bank vouchers annually, so the number of people using its food banks is likely to be around half of the 1.1 million figure.
But using the Trussell Trust figures, it’s wrong to say that a million families use food banks."

https://fullfact.org/factcheck/economy/ ... ages-48158" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Number of people provided with 3 days’ emergency food by TT foodbank in 2014-15:
Children: 396,997
Adults: 687,607
Total: 1,084,604

Nearly 400,000 children were given 3 days emergency food by a Trussell Trust foodbank between April 2014 and March 2015, up 70,000 from the year before.

David McAuley
Chief Executive of The Trussell Trust
25/06/2015
http://www.trusselltrust.org/resources/ ... Survey.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
25/06/2015
Chief Executive David McAuley responds to latest government data on households in poverty Read more
http://www.trusselltrust.org/latest-news" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's not a million people dependent on foodbanks.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 9:01 pm

bill ‏@kingbill73 44 mins44 minutes ago Hessle, England

Of course not many people realise that Farage is the anglicisation of the Huguenot name Fuckwit and that the meaning of Nigel is Complete.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 9:07 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:This is pretty worrying to me. McDonnell getting important facts wrong last night on Question Time.

https://fullfact.org/factcheck/economy/ ... ages-48158" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Might be slips of the tongue, could be a sign of carelessness or worse?

I think we have to be wary of the idea that the Left are necessarily any better than anyone else with facts.

"The Trussell Trust aren’t the only organisation running food banks in the UK, so we don’t have an overall figure for the total number of people, or families, fed by food aid providers.
On average, the Trust says its users needed two food bank vouchers annually, so the number of people using its food banks is likely to be around half of the 1.1 million figure.
But using the Trussell Trust figures, it’s wrong to say that a million families use food banks."

https://fullfact.org/factcheck/economy/ ... ages-48158" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Number of people provided with 3 days’ emergency food by TT foodbank in 2014-15:
Children: 396,997
Adults: 687,607
Total: 1,084,604

Nearly 400,000 children were given 3 days emergency food by a Trussell Trust foodbank between April 2014 and March 2015, up 70,000 from the year before.

David McAuley
Chief Executive of The Trussell Trust
25/06/2015
http://www.trusselltrust.org/resources/ ... Survey.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
25/06/2015
Chief Executive David McAuley responds to latest government data on households in poverty Read more
http://www.trusselltrust.org/latest-news" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That's not a million people dependent on foodbanks.

That's quite right, but I seem to recall Trussell only has around 45% of the food banks...So the figure of a million people could well be right, but again I read that no figures are kept for the other providers.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 9:11 pm

Jeremy Corbyn MPVerified account
‏@jeremycorbyn

7th hour of monthly walk-in MPs advice session & still more people to see because of the many problems faced by those who have come for help

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 9:13 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:This is pretty worrying to me. McDonnell getting important facts wrong last night on Question Time.

https://fullfact.org/factcheck/economy/ ... ages-48158" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Might be slips of the tongue, could be a sign of carelessness or worse?

I think we have to be wary of the idea that the Left are necessarily any better than anyone else with facts.

"The Trussell Trust aren’t the only organisation running food banks in the UK, so we don’t have an overall figure for the total number of people, or families, fed by food aid providers.
On average, the Trust says its users needed two food bank vouchers annually, so the number of people using its food banks is likely to be around half of the 1.1 million figure.
But using the Trussell Trust figures, it’s wrong to say that a million families use food banks."

https://fullfact.org/factcheck/economy/ ... ages-48158" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Number of people provided with 3 days’ emergency food by TT foodbank in 2014-15:
Children: 396,997
Adults: 687,607
Total: 1,084,604

Nearly 400,000 children were given 3 days emergency food by a Trussell Trust foodbank between April 2014 and March 2015, up 70,000 from the year before.

David McAuley
Chief Executive of The Trussell Trust
25/06/2015
http://www.trusselltrust.org/resources/ ... Survey.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
25/06/2015
Chief Executive David McAuley responds to latest government data on households in poverty Read more
http://www.trusselltrust.org/latest-news" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That's not a million people dependent on foodbanks.

It's more than a million people, 400,000 of them children, dependent on food-banks from the Trussell Trust alone.

I didn't write over a million families are dependent on food-banks from numbers from the Trussell Trust.
I didn't think it was necessary.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 9:14 pm

From yesterday - I believe.

John Mills‏@John_mills_jml
Today's front page in @thetimes is not true. Do wish @LOS_Fisher & @elliotttimes had bothered to read my statement: http://ow.ly/2bvcAK" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and here's his statement:

Statement by John Mills concerning the Labour Party
It was reported today in the Daily Telegraph that I am to stop being a donor to the Labour Party. This is utterly untrue. It was also reported that I am to start funding organisations who wish to work to oust Jeremy Corbyn. This is also completely untrue.

I am always happy to talk to journalists both on and off the record. But in return, I do expect to be quoted accurately and my views given in a balanced way, without unnecessary 'spin'. The piece in the Daily Telegraph is wholly inaccurate because:

1. The Labour Party holds shares in my company, JML, which were donated by me. The Labour Party is therefore entitled to collect the dividends now, today, and for the indefinite future regardless of who leads the Party. That is their right.

2. I categorically deny that I am involved with any campaigns whatsoever to oust Jeremy Corbyn. I am not involved with Labour for the Common Good which is an organisation whose existence I've only read about in the papers along with everyone else. Jeremy Corbyn was fairly elected as leader of the Labour Party and has a mandate from the Party and its members.

3. After our defeat in May, I believe the Party needs fresh thinking and to this end I will consider funding established think-tanks and research organisations. This is the extent of any additional funding.

Finally, I'd like to reiterate that I've been a loyal member of the Labour Party for more than 40 years and will always remain so.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 9:29 pm

Evening StandardVerified account
‏@standardnews

Jeremy Corbyn ‘snubs’ England’s big Rugby World Cup opener http://bit.ly/1FkSGGW" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; #RWC2015

Jeremy Corbyn MPVerified account
‏@jeremycorbyn

7th hour of monthly walk-in MPs advice session & still more people to see because of the many problems faced by those who have come for help

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 9:37 pm

Apologies if posted before.

http://www.theguardian.com/housing-netw ... ible-homes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Disabled people hit by housing crisis are told: 'Your life is too expensive'
Dawn Foster

We were extraordinary lucky/stubborn.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 9:47 pm

Sky News ‏@SkyNews 54m54 minutes ago
THE INDEPENDENT: 'Corbyn 'loses fifth of Labour voters'' #skypapers

That's their big front page for tomorrow. And so it continues.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 10:05 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Sky News ‏@SkyNews 54m54 minutes ago
THE INDEPENDENT: 'Corbyn 'loses fifth of Labour voters'' #skypapers
That's their big front page for tomorrow. And so it continues.

Is that a figure for VI or their bollocks question on Corbyn makes me more likely to vote conservative?

Corbyn makes me more likely to vote conservative, raising the probability from 0 to 0.000000001 - which still means it isn't going to happen.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 10:11 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:From yesterday - I believe.

John Mills‏@John_mills_jml
Today's front page in @thetimes is not true. Do wish @LOS_Fisher & @elliotttimes had bothered to read my statement: http://ow.ly/2bvcAK" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and here's his statement:
Statement by John Mills concerning the Labour Party
It was reported today in the Daily Telegraph that I am to stop being a donor to the Labour Party. This is utterly untrue. It was also reported that I am to start funding organisations who wish to work to oust Jeremy Corbyn. This is also completely untrue.

I am always happy to talk to journalists both on and off the record. But in return, I do expect to be quoted accurately and my views given in a balanced way, without unnecessary 'spin'. The piece in the Daily Telegraph is wholly inaccurate because:

1. The Labour Party holds shares in my company, JML, which were donated by me. The Labour Party is therefore entitled to collect the dividends now, today, and for the indefinite future regardless of who leads the Party. That is their right.

2. I categorically deny that I am involved with any campaigns whatsoever to oust Jeremy Corbyn. I am not involved with Labour for the Common Good which is an organisation whose existence I've only read about in the papers along with everyone else. Jeremy Corbyn was fairly elected as leader of the Labour Party and has a mandate from the Party and its members.

3. After our defeat in May, I believe the Party needs fresh thinking and to this end I will consider funding established think-tanks and research organisations. This is the extent of any additional funding.

Finally, I'd like to reiterate that I've been a loyal member of the Labour Party for more than 40 years and will always remain so.
If anyone saw my post about the Telegraph story on this, you won't be surprise. The journalism was disgusting, absolutely disgusting. There was no sense of looking at the facts and writing a story to reflect them - it was all about fitting the facts loosely to a desired narrative, and adding so much 'commentary' that it was easy to miss what the facts were actually saying.

To those who think Corbyn should be pandering to the media more to get his message across, I say look at this. This is not right.

I don't think anybody would argue Corbyn should be pandering to the right wing media. He should be dealing with TV and radio as they have to be more balanced. Corbyn should sit on lots of TV sofas and apply charm, find a way to build trust.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 10:14 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
If anyone saw my post about the Telegraph story on this, you won't be surprise. The journalism was disgusting, absolutely disgusting. There was no sense of looking at the facts and writing a story to reflect them - it was all about fitting the facts loosely to a desired narrative, and adding so much 'commentary' that it was easy to miss what the facts were actually saying.

To those who think Corbyn should be pandering to the media more to get his message across, I say look at this. This is not right.

Not only that, as I pointed out on the evening before that story was in the paper, the other "Labour donor" was one of the stories around at the election where he wanted to donate...provided Labour give up their union donations.

Oh, and he's the arse that wanted Hull City to change their name and was told to get lost.

"I've got money so everyone needs to do what I tell them". Another unacceptable face of capitalism...

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 10:16 pm

I didn't even know England were playing rugby."Bula"

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 10:29 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote: If anyone saw my post about the Telegraph story on this, you won't be surprise. The journalism was disgusting, absolutely disgusting. There was no sense of looking at the facts and writing a story to reflect them - it was all about fitting the facts loosely to a desired narrative, and adding so much 'commentary' that it was easy to miss what the facts were actually saying.

To those who think Corbyn should be pandering to the media more to get his message across, I say look at this. This is not right.
I don't think anybody would argue Corbyn should be pandering to the right wing media. He should be dealing with TV and radio as they have to be more balanced. Corbyn should sit on lots of TV sofas and apply charm, find a way to build trust.
The broadcast media follows the agenda set by the print media. It's only a little better. It's still all about the narrative. The media can go fuck itself. We have to find other ways to reach people.

Sure find other ways but the broadcast media is still critical. Sure it follows the print agenda, how Labour challenges that and deals with it will be absolutely key. I refuse to believe that some bright people can't reach a solution to the problem that works at least some of the time. It was a surprise in 2015 that Labour hadn't factored in, now they know about it they need to solve the problem.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 10:52 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote: I don't think anybody would argue Corbyn should be pandering to the right wing media. He should be dealing with TV and radio as they have to be more balanced. Corbyn should sit on lots of TV sofas and apply charm, find a way to build trust.
The broadcast media follows the agenda set by the print media. It's only a little better. It's still all about the narrative. The media can go fuck itself. We have to find other ways to reach people.
Sure find other ways but the broadcast media is still critical. Sure it follows the print agenda, how Labour challenges that and deals with it will be absolutely key. I refuse to believe that some bright people can't reach a solution to the problem that works at least some of the time. It was a surprise in 2015 that Labour hadn't factored in, now they know about it they need to solve the problem.

I think this is a fair point and I agree that something can and should be done

The media is a little hubristic at the moment (like the Tories) and is in danger of making itself look stupid....it cannot maintain this level of hostility and it could prove counterproductive in the end

One thing I haven't thought of before and I hadn't thought about until I saw QT the other night - the age of Corbyn and McDonnell. Despite their reputations of being 'hard-left' they actually both come across as very unthreatening and are actually pretty polite, calm and well-mannered. It has been quite a long time since there has been a party leadership (of the main two) that have the air of experience and it, I think, make it more difficult for the media in the long-term. This is in direct contest to that twat Cameron and the over-excited puppy in charge of the Lib Dems (although he is about as visible as the 'Invisible Man' at the moment - if he goes and reads LDV he may decide to stay in the shadows seeing the lack of any reality or self-reflection over there!)

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 11:05 pm

Right on cue - Newsnight has just had a piece on whether Corbyn and co can manage to do what is necessary to reach and persuade people who are not already followers - for which the starting assumption (by Maitliss / Newsnight anyway) is that they need the media - without losing the very authenticity which has got them this far.

Not a bad piece - despite Maitliss - not least because they got two new faces in to talk about it - an editor from the Morning Star and a former special adviser to Nick Clegg. Both of them far more interesting and less hackneyed than the usual Hodges, Collins etc etc etc.

Both of them seemed to reckon Corbyn was doing OK (whilst acknowledging the learning, the challenges etc) - and the authenticity really mattered - with the guy from the Morning Star pretty much saying what Robert Snozers has been saying - that Corbyn's team have been very very savvy so far with the way they have opened up new and different channels to reach people - and that he should and will keep the focus on engaging with real people out in the world rather than the Westminster, media circles.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 11:24 pm

John Mann ‏@JohnMannMP 12m12 minutes ago
John Mann retweeted PoliticsHome
This idiot claims to be receiving texts from Labour MPs. But nobody has ever bothered to get his phone number. Liar.

PoliticsHomeVerified account
‏@politicshome
Recap: Tim Farron says his door is "wide open" to Labour MPs unhappy under Jeremy Corbyn. http://polho.me/1W7PJOt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 11:30 pm

Just read the article of how badly NHS doctors are being treated by current government.

Junior doctors condemn new contract they say could cut pay by 40%
New working hours being imposed on ‘workhorses of the NHS’ after they refuse to re-enter Department of Health negotiations

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... 0-per-cent" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Insane.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 11:31 pm

Goodnight, everyone.
love
cJA

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 18 Sep, 2015 11:53 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote: I think this is a fair point and I agree that something can and should be done

The media is a little hubristic at the moment (like the Tories) and is in danger of making itself look stupid....it cannot maintain this level of hostility and it could prove counterproductive in the end

One thing I haven't thought of before and I hadn't thought about until I saw QT the other night - the age of Corbyn and McDonnell. Despite their reputations of being 'hard-left' they actually both come across as very unthreatening and are actually pretty polite, calm and well-mannered. It has been quite a long time since there has been a party leadership (of the main two) that have the air of experience and it, I think, make it more difficult for the media in the long-term. This is in direct contest to that twat Cameron and the over-excited puppy in charge of the Lib Dems (although he is about as visible as the 'Invisible Man' at the moment - if he goes and reads LDV he may decide to stay in the shadows seeing the lack of any reality or self-reflection over there!)
I happen to think that the LibDems have made a huge error in electing Farron as leader. For me, he has zero credibility - he's supposedly on the left of the party yet was an ever-enthusiastic cheerleader for everything the coalition did in government, at least for the first few years when it mattered, and I don't think I heard anyone bar Danny Alexander utter the words 'mess we inherited from the last Labour government' more frequently. Moreover I have not been able to discern any sense of what he stands for. It appears that he is blindly pursuing what the recent research into the LibDem collapse called 'the folly of equidistance' - or was it 'the insanity of equidistance'? In any case, the sense that by being between where Labour and the Tories are politically, they are actually where everyone wants to be. Only there don't seem to be any policies, just a madcap race to see how many times he can repeat 'moderate' and 'centre ground' in one interview or speech. The problem is, I don't believe there is any such thing as the centre ground. There are leftwing ideas and there are rightwing ideas. There's no such thing as a centre-ground idea - just a watered down version of one or the other. The LibDems work when they're about something different - actually, a party that focusses on freedom of the individual and social liberalism makes a lot of sense. But this bizarre triangulation isn't going to convince anyone. In my view, of course. This is just an impression really. What doesn anyone else think?

Agree with what you are saying Robert

I occasionally lurk over at LDV after having been essentially banned from posting (too many run ins with Simon Shaw......) and they are really in a bad, bad place. Despite what we may think about Labour leaders and fortunes no one can deny it is all a bit exciting - and with so many new members closing in on half a million

The Liberal Democrats are essentially meaningless in national terms but the locals over there really seem to believe they are still the future of politics - there are some realistic pointing out that it may be 3 election cycles before they even have a moderate representation (unless of course the Tories completely collapse...and with the economic figures looking as they are that may not be so far-fetched)

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 19 Sep, 2015 12:04 am

This is very funny. Cheer yourselves up before going to bed. It pretty much sums up the attitude of the Riots household over the past week.

Jeremy Corbyn hysteria, hypocrisy and outright lies are the funniest thing I've seen for years
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/je ... ar_twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 19 Sep, 2015 12:06 am

On the Farron question, given the options he was the right choice. He is the least tainted of them.

Think he is a bit happy clappy myself, and more lightweight than a footballer in the opposition penalty area.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 19 Sep, 2015 12:07 am

yahyah wrote:The spiced ginger cake came out a bit crusty.

We used an old Elizabeth David recipe, so by the time I had translated imperial into metric, Gas mark 3 into centigrade, deducted 20 degrees for a fan oven, used the wrong size tin....what could possibly go wrong ? Have wrapped it in foil in the hope it transforms itself over night.

Thus is created a new recipe: Crispy-crust Ginger Cake

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 19 Sep, 2015 12:19 am

[About Lucy Powell's wish for schools to be placed under local accountability]

That's because you're a lightweight who believes everything you're told about what "local authority control" means.

Wouldn't it be great of Labour won in 2020 and announced that, since they had full control over everything academies and free schools did, every school was to do an hour lesson in Marxism every day. And an hour yogurt knitting.

Can you imagine the reaction...."oh no, what have we done??"

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 19 Sep, 2015 12:20 am

Lady C - your culinary reference has just reminded me of the peerless exchange I had with Mr Riots this evening. He's been very tetchy all day having been doing lots of FOI nitpicking which requires extra brain power and is anyway a bit hard of hearing on the best of days (I put it down to the stupid hat with ear flaps he likes to wear ....)

As I was about to start cooking I said in a questioning tone to him 'Courgette, pea and mint soup, OK?'

The reply. 'Not on my PC - it keeps on buffering'.

I decided not to try and unpick it then. Later on - after he had eaten - I found out he thought I'd asked him to watch the rugby on his PC????

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 19 Sep, 2015 12:22 am

Oh dear, time to sell those VW shares.....*

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... violations

That is going to be an epic fine and an epic recall.

And of course the original owners, with crippled cars, will then take VW to court in one outstanding class action.

* This is not financial advice. If you own VW shares (if such things exist any more after the Porsche fiasco) you should seek financial advice from somebody who has a clue (which does not include George Osborne).

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 19 Sep, 2015 12:55 am

I see there are still quite a few of you enjoying your Friday night; well this is Saturday morning for some.I was feeling tired and emotional... correction: I was feeling tired and miserable all full of cold so had an early night and retired about half ten with a Lemsip.. and yep, sleep well I did. Having been laying there for some time thought, 'Oh well may as well get up then' and looked at the time expecting four or five in the morning. As I said I slept well, neither was I putting the world to rights or attacking the shiny faced one. A quiet calm surrounded me.

'Half past twelve? Is that all?' To be expected really rather than the three to three and a half hours I used to sleep in one go now it seems it is only one and a half to two. This morning I am mostly enjoying a sip of orange and pineapple juice. Did I not mention? That's the trouble with Kung Po; you have to drink the rest of the opened fruit hiuce. I can't remember what the recipe said many moons ago when I found one, possibly pineapple juice but I use O&P being one of my stock ones.

You really needed to know that, didn't you? So what has been going on here then?

Edit: 'two to three' sounds far better than ''three to three'
Edit 2: oops t'was 'three to three and a half' after all

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 19 Sep, 2015 1:10 am

@RobertSnozers

I largely agree with your observations about the msm, Robert,but don't think you can abandon them altogether hence my suggestion of press conferences or let's say interviews with onlky the favoured few. Sod the lying bastard others, it doesn't matter what you say they'll only misrepresent or quote out of context.
'
'And whatever you say of social media and the like, peak-time television is still highly important; I note Channel 4 seems to be the favoured one. Say whatever you like of the Beeb and bias I have also observed that Jeremy, and others, do seem more able to handle the more disarming of interviewers but as I suggested the other day, those who speak out of turn need shutting up, reprimanding or asked to question their position, putting it politely.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 19 Sep, 2015 1:16 am

@RobertSnozers

Over-excited puppy, lol, Robert. He strikes me as the choir-boy trying to evade the conductor's interest. Please accept my apologies for speaking out of turn, he seems even younger than the lad with the girlfriend he'd met at church group that I envisaged the other day.

Edit: addressed the correct person, sorry

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 19 Sep, 2015 1:23 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:This is very funny. Cheer yourselves up before going to bed. It pretty much sums up the attitude of the Riots household over the past week.

Jeremy Corbyn hysteria, hypocrisy and outright lies are the funniest thing I've seen for years
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/je ... ar_twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I partly agree, rr2, but am quite frankly really annoyed. It may be the media but who are these no name, well to me, individuals they keep putting before the camera adding to the hubris and telling the world how awful he is? Some of the shit must surely stick. There needs to be a fiercely hostile rebuttal and attack unit employed. Things are really beyond a joke now.

Edit: replaced 'bit' with 'but'

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 19 Sep, 2015 1:25 am

@TechnicalEphemera

Happy chappie? You're too kind.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 19 Sep, 2015 1:28 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:... found out he thought I'd asked him to watch the rugby on his PC????

Hug you on my what, rr2?

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 19 Sep, 2015 1:44 am

Goodnight, shutting the lid on this. Can't be letting the blue light affect me now. Isn't red supposed to be much warmer? Ah perhaps that's my problem...

No not the blue light, perhaps I need to visit a red-light district. Works wonders for insomnia I've been told!

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 19 Sep, 2015 2:24 am

Not to be telly offy in any way, but is there any way we could avoid telly offy interventions? I'm interested to know what a range of people think and entertained to experience various modes of expression.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 19 Sep, 2015 2:53 am

The lady who visit to spearhead the inquiry into the grave and systematic violations of the rights of the disabled.
http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/Disabili ... andas.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 19 Sep, 2015 3:17 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Lady C - your culinary reference has just reminded me of the peerless exchange I had with Mr Riots this evening. He's been very tetchy all day having been doing lots of FOI nitpicking which requires extra brain power and is anyway a bit hard of hearing on the best of days (I put it down to the stupid hat with ear flaps he likes to wear ....)

As I was about to start cooking I said in a questioning tone to him 'Courgette, pea and mint soup, OK?'

The reply. 'Not on my PC - it keeps on buffering'.

I decided not to try and unpick it then. Later on - after he had eaten - I found out he thought I'd asked him to watch the rugby on his PC????

Oh dear me!!! I think I love Mr. Riots

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 19 Sep, 2015 3:59 am

Only me. Yeah getting up time already, at least I've had another hour and a half since going back to bed at 2 o'clock. Maybe I should have tried another couple of hours. You'd think I had an active imagination or summat, wouldn't you? So where was I?

Putting the world to rights? Possibly. Having a twosome with Cameron? Much more like it. Reckons he's clever does he? Gove too for that matter. Allow me tell them a thing or two... and please don't think me vain. It has always been my experience that I be moderately good at most things I turn my hand to, as I've probably mentioned before, a dilettante. However, are you looking Lord Chancellor? Nothing wrong with However! As I was saying, no matter how good one thinks one is... and yes I am especially looking at you Micky... and George too I guess who is always being flattered by talk of how able he is. Scheming I call it or is that another cunning plan I see? You fucking twat!

All three of you really call yourself politicians? You're supposed to be working for the good of the country not twatting about with your greed and silly games. 'And then there's that zealot IDS. Talk about stupid, no wonder you have him dancing to your tune!

Sorry folks I had something other to say, no less rambling but you know me by now and the immediacy of the situation. Just saying.

Let's see, what have I missed?

Postscript: seems I forgot to add to being a dilettante that no matter how good one thinks one is, there is always another much better. So who exactly is it that's so great then? Time one treats others with far more regard!

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 19 Sep, 2015 4:32 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:Not to be telly offy in any way, but is there any way we could avoid telly offy interventions? I'm interested to know what a range of people think and entertained to experience various modes of expression.

Finally, finally no more squalid errors. Anyway seems I were exceedingly slow then... and no, not database errors but telly offy as I hadn't put mine on yet... and then it dawned on me. So yes, tinyclanger, I do agree up to a point... or should I say I see where you're coming from with a sign off like that.

Seriously though, I do agree, however it takes two to tango. Didn't I say something similar the other day? I prefer the schmooze of the waltz myself, but never one to refuse rising to the challenge... Now where was I? Oh yeah, it's not just those who may seem a little harsh, although they should temper things down a little. Look at who's the fuck talking now! Nonetheless that is the nature of the medium, surely everybody is aware that online abuse or sensitivities are never out of the news.

So a two way thing. No matter how offensive another may appear, please accept that face to face they probably mean well, at least on this forum albeit the odd exception. So may I also ask that in such circumstances that we all take a deep breath and accept we have differing views... and a bit less of the sensitivity, if you please?

I hope I make sense and far more importantly have not offended anyone. Cheers... smiley face.. retires graciously... or is that with my tail between my legs? Speaking of tales, did I ever tell you...?

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 19 Sep, 2015 4:37 am

HindleA wrote:The lady who visit to spearhead the inquiry into the grave and systematic violations of the rights of the disabled.
http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/Disabili ... andas.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cue the misogynistic abuse from government quarters, A.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 19 Sep, 2015 5:09 am

One final thought before I go for a shower or maybe another coffee first. This one is about that elusive thing of paying ones way or the magic money tree as I have heard it called. Upsurges and crashing stock markets only seem to validate my point, albeit given the structures that exist there is always somebody that pays the price.

Getting to my point. What if, okay hypothetical, but what if there were a world wide crash and there were no money left? Can someone please explain? Does the globe stop spinning? Does the sun refuse to shine? So may I ask that instead of fighting and depriving others of their needs that we spend a little time and consideration helping one another out?

Too fucking expensive I keep being told. Well that brings me full circle. So what if there's no money left? There is always tomorrow and plenty more where that came from. Think about it, money is only a token of human exchange and endeavour. Who the fuck do we owe anyway? Let us stop all this borrowing and lending then see what done deals we may perform.

Too simplistic? Won't somebody tell me why the fuck not? Of course I see, you want it all yourselves.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 19 Sep, 2015 7:50 am

utopiandreams wrote:@TechnicalEphemera

Happy chappie? You're too kind.

Nope Happy Clappy - a certain type of evangelical Christian, involves singing dancing and clapping vaguely in time to "music" at any possible excuse. Each to their own of course but Farron would fit right in (at least in terms of style)

(this is not a comment about his religion I have no idea what that is and frankly don't care).