Saturday 28th & Sunday 29th November 2015

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 4:46 pm

Rebecca wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
yahyah wrote:Fair enough Grim.
Will refer to the individuals by name in future but it may make for some long lists !

Well. I'm sorry but I shan't be. I'm rubbish at names.
Took me two years to get my lovely neighbours name right. And she's far nicer than some Labour MPs.
And also,as many media stories use the term moderates instead of given names,surely using that term is acceptable if we're discussing that same story?

Yes, I agree, if the article doesn't name names, using the term the author of the article uses is absolutely acceptable. I won't believe a journalist in mainstream media using that term without names. Journalists can expect to be disregarded as liars. Writing about UK government, the opposition and the MPs who make up Parliament isn't a clandestine activity. A whistle-blower in some other organisation, fine, I understand the need for protecting an identity. Parliamentary MPs get named or the story is garbage. Media's regular misrepresentations are to blame - I detest the phoney divide and conquer bullshit. People's lives are at stake. This isn't a game.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 4:59 pm

Labour works around Jeremy Corbyn in Greater Manchester byelection

The ballot for the Oldham West and Royton seat vacated by the death of Michael Meacher is likely to be decided on local issues (Guardian)

Interesting read.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... byelection

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 5:00 pm

Willow904 wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
Willow904 wrote:This is Cameron's war, Corbyn can't hope to stop it however right he may be in his wish to do so.
Ed did. Corbyn's USP is that he is his own man, not a 'professional' politician, that was what endeared him to the people who overwhelmingly voted for him as Leader; but there are times where you have to compromise, where you have to be able to play the realpolitik games to stop some of Cameron's more outrageous idiocies, and it is questionable whether Jezza is capable of doing that without alienating those who voted for him ...... actually, whether he is capable of doing that full stop.
When Ed stopped Cameron, it was Cameron's idea. The US hadn't asked us to bomb Syria, let alone the French. There was a bigger government rebellion on the cards also. I guess what I'm saying is that I admire Corbyn's principles in this, I understand his desire to stop this bombing campaign, it's wrong and will be a disaster, but I don't think it's worth risking the Labour party over it as there's less chance to stop it this time, in which case maintaining party unity should have been the top priority. If he met with his shadow cabinet and suggested a free vote, would there have been dissent and briefing to the press? What did he say or do that has created this disunity that is damaging the party? I can't understand what's gone wrong, that this has become about Labour, not the government's poor decision to go to war on a widely panned weak argument. This is why I've lost faith in Corbyn, a little. If John McDonnell could see a free vote as the best option early on, why hasn't that already been agreed and the focus thrown back on Cameron's weak case?

'I can't understand what's gone wrong, that this has become about Labour, not the government's poor decision to go to war on a widely panned weak argument.'

Tory government have for nearly six years now made 'it's all Labour's fault' the centerpiece of their incompetent leadership. I won't forget - I won't ever forget - the Tory government members who've allowed dishonourable, irresponsible and mendacious horseshit continue. Current Tory government ought to have greater care. Tory government will reap what they've sown. Tory government are very bad, for country and people, bad news. It was their choice. No one made any member of the current government support the policy and leadership. Labour in opposition isn't without faults. The lies told about Labour and Labour MPs are reprehensible. People can't make informed decisions when they don't know the truth.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 5:11 pm

Willow904 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
Willow904 wrote: I see this as a separate and more serious issue. The collapse in trust and communication that is happening now is between Corbyn and his shadow cabinet, the MPs who were willing to give him a chance. Not the plotting Blairite backbenchers, who don't matter, as such, because they are backbenchers and if they rebel won't be seen as challenge to Corbyn's authority. Given the weakness of Cameron's case to bomb, how is it Corbyn can't convince his team to take a position to insist on a proper plan before supporting bombing? Is it because Corbyn has been saying he won't support bombing under any circumstances? I could see how such inflexibility could cause problems. I'm also concerned that Diane Abbott seems to have been making such a case on tv, on behalf of who exactly? Herself, Corbyn, Labour? Hilary Benn should be the first person Corbyn should be sharing his thinking with and should be responsible for talking to the media on the issue.

John McDonnell appears to have now made an appearance on tv, which I'm about to go read now. Someone needs to get a grip. Let's hope he has something useful to contribute.
Sadly the Labour rebels are using Syria as part of their agenda, and I think it's disgusting. If they force a leadership election then I'm off. And it's not flouncing. I refuse to give their disgraceful behaviour legitimacy, and have no other effective way of showing my displeasure.
And from what I've read on Twitter there are an awful lot of people that are going to do the same.
France has specifically asked the UK to back them in this. Some Labour MPs may genuinely feel doing so is the right thing to do, rather than just an excuse to attack Corbyn. And these aren't rebels. These are MPs who accepted the members vote and accepted a place in Corbyn's cabinet in a genuine attempt to respect the democracy within the party. These are shadow cabinet members who have expressed a desire for Cameron to present a follow up plan and other doubts about the action. If Corbyn can't reach out to them and come to some kind of cabinet consensus, his leadership can't work. Anyway, a free vote appears to be on the cards. The situation may still be resolved.

I agree with you. The duty, responsibility of the Labour party leader is to keep colleagues and members together in a functional unit or it's not going to work. Labour party MPs and members work together, find acceptable comprises or go. It's not easy. Cooperation takes time and honesty. Hearing everyone's opinion respectfully is time-consuming and the leader(s) need to find consensus, the represented need to find peace with decisions made.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 5:14 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote: Sadly the Labour rebels are using Syria as part of their agenda, and I think it's disgusting. If they force a leadership election then I'm off. And it's not flouncing. I refuse to give their disgraceful behaviour legitimacy, and have no other effective way of showing my displeasure.
And from what I've read on Twitter there are an awful lot of people that are going to do the same.
France has specifically asked the UK to back them in this. Some Labour MPs may genuinely feel doing so is the right thing to do, rather than just an excuse to attack Corbyn. And these aren't rebels. These are MPs who accepted the members vote and accepted a place in Corbyn's cabinet in a genuine attempt to respect the democracy within the party. These are shadow cabinet members who have expressed a desire for Cameron to present a follow up plan and other doubts about the action. If Corbyn can't reach out to them and come to some kind of cabinet consensus, his leadership can't work. Anyway, a free vote appears to be on the cards. The situation may still be resolved.
I agree with you. The duty, responsibility of the Labour party leader is to keep colleagues and members together in a functional unit or it's not going to work. Labour party MPs and members work together, find acceptable comprises or go. It's not easy. Cooperation takes time and honesty. Hearing everyone's opinion respectfully is time-consuming and the leader(s) need to find consensus, the represented need to find peace with decisions made.

We know what needs to be done. Some MPs either don't or won't.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 5:17 pm

HindleA wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... l-activist

David Cameron backs Grant Shapps amid scandal over activist
Prime minister has ‘full confidence’ in former Conservative party co-chairman, who has been urged to resign by father of blogger found dead after allegations of bullying

The title and sub now read:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... l-activist

Grant Shapps resigns over bullying scandal: 'the buck should stop with me'
Former party chairman stands down after revelations he knew about bullying allegations against aide almost a year ago

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 5:18 pm

Peter Jukes ‏@peterjukes 1h1 hour ago
So Sun lobby correspondent Cole close to Clarke. And Cole's partner a SpAd for the minister in charge of press and media regulation.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 5:19 pm

I detest the fawning protection from media for the worst PM in the UK's history.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 5:19 pm

and we know which one our PM has bowed down to, literally.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 5:23 pm

Sorry about my negativity this morning.
Low blood sugar before breakfast hit the spot, and too much listening to the BBC.

As John McDonnell said, Labour is a broad church.
That means there will always be people with interest in their own careers, money making enterprises, back stabbing etc., it's just human nature.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 5:25 pm

Just listening to PM on Radio 4 - two serious commentators re Syria - Peter Ford and Patrick Cockburn - both saying the Cameron bombing proposal just doesn't cut it. Ford saying diplomacy must be used - after pointing out that there is virtually nowhere in Syria that hasn't already been bombed. Patrick Cockburn saying the forces in situ that Cameron refers to simply aren't there.

The article I read by the reporter who went into Syria and talked with members of Isis was a complete reality check. He says how they make sure they are not all together in one place - that they put small groups of themselves into blocks of flats with civilians and so on. Doesn't bear thinking about in terms of casualties - or efficiency of any bombing.

Let's hope the reality that so many knowledgeable and serious people are talking about becomes a much stronger story and counter to Cameron's wishful bombast.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 5:25 pm

: CU6fosFWwAAoTK709.jpg (134.68 KiB) Viewed 5818 times

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 5:26 pm

No need to apologise yahyah, even my natural optimism has been tested a bit recently

Today's developments confirm there is plenty of ammunition to use against this government, if only our team ever get their act together.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 5:28 pm

Grant Shapps cousin is Mick Jones, once guitarist with The Clash.

[youtube]xZWpc_yYFs0[/youtube]

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 5:30 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
Willow904 wrote:France has specifically asked the UK to back them in this. Some Labour MPs may genuinely feel doing so is the right thing to do, rather than just an excuse to attack Corbyn. And these aren't rebels. These are MPs who accepted the members vote and accepted a place in Corbyn's cabinet in a genuine attempt to respect the democracy within the party. These are shadow cabinet members who have expressed a desire for Cameron to present a follow up plan and other doubts about the action. If Corbyn can't reach out to them and come to some kind of cabinet consensus, his leadership can't work. Anyway, a free vote appears to be on the cards. The situation may still be resolved.
I agree with you. The duty, responsibility of the Labour party leader is to keep colleagues and members together in a functional unit or it's not going to work. Labour party MPs and members work together, find acceptable comprises or go. It's not easy. Cooperation takes time and honesty. Hearing everyone's opinion respectfully is time-consuming and the leader(s) need to find consensus, the represented need to find peace with decisions made.
We know what needs to be done. Some MPs either don't or won't.

MPs who don't or won't need straightening out - their misunderstanding of their duty and responsibilities that come with being a Labour party MP are clear. Reconcile the conscience appropriately and move forward together.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 5:30 pm

Nick Hurd to replace Shapps. Another Bullingdon Club member.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 5:32 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:Nick Hurd to replace Shapps. Another Bullingdon Club member.

I like not being a Tory. Every day of my life. It's wonderful. I'm not a Tory. Beautiful.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 5:33 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:Nick Hurd to replace Shapps. Another Bullingdon Club member.

Is it any flipping wonder they don't take alleged bullying or abusive behaviour seriously ?
They are steeped in it from their school & uni days.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 5:38 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote: Ed did. Corbyn's USP is that he is his own man, not a 'professional' politician, that was what endeared him to the people who overwhelmingly voted for him as Leader; but there are times where you have to compromise, where you have to be able to play the realpolitik games to stop some of Cameron's more outrageous idiocies, and it is questionable whether Jezza is capable of doing that without alienating those who voted for him ...... actually, whether he is capable of doing that full stop.
When Ed stopped Cameron, it was Cameron's idea. The US hadn't asked us to bomb Syria, let alone the French. There was a bigger government rebellion on the cards also. I guess what I'm saying is that I admire Corbyn's principles in this, I understand his desire to stop this bombing campaign, it's wrong and will be a disaster, but I don't think it's worth risking the Labour party over it as there's less chance to stop it this time, in which case maintaining party unity should have been the top priority. If he met with his shadow cabinet and suggested a free vote, would there have been dissent and briefing to the press? What did he say or do that has created this disunity that is damaging the party? I can't understand what's gone wrong, that this has become about Labour, not the government's poor decision to go to war on a widely panned weak argument. This is why I've lost faith in Corbyn, a little. If John McDonnell could see a free vote as the best option early on, why hasn't that already been agreed and the focus thrown back on Cameron's weak case?
Some of the reports I've heard since the PLP / Shadow Cabinet meetings on Syria appear to be saying that some of the angry with Corbyn MPs are angry because a free vote might be allowed and they think there must be a collective shadow cabinet / party position on matters of national security - that Labour isn't credible without a clear, unified position. Some here also share that view. I don't - I think such a big decision should be a matter of conscience and subject to a free vote. Whatever our respective views - it should be above taking swipes at individuals and party dynamics. It should be about Syria and Cameron's case.

Yes, I agree with you. Media will continue to divert attention away from the Tory failure and continue implicating at all times anything that goes wrong is a failing of the Labour party.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 5:39 pm

Rich Peppiatt ‏@richpeppiatt 2h2 hours ago
Unfortunate for Grant Shapps that he's had a crack at being several different people now and all of them have ended up being utter tossers.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 5:43 pm

yahyah wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Actually I think myself that "je suis Paris" is one of the best arguments for our getting involved militarily. Solidarity is important, but it has to be weighed against other things.

And I have no doubt that some Labour MPs who back action do so totally sincerely. I think that JC fully accepts that too.

But not everybody, however. People briefing hacks that they intend to vote with Cameron "to spite Corbyn" are completely out of order, I hope everybody here can agree.

Argghhh. I suspected as much.
But on the other hand, are these people real ?....any journo can make up a quote can't they ?
Not sure it is possible to really assess what is real and not at the moment.

(my bold)

Yep, some journalists can and do make things up. It happens to Labour party MPs and associates all the time. I can't afford an alternate mainstream media and Santa Claus wrote back and told me he's not got one either. I could have a nice universe elsewhere but I'd have to be silicon based to tolerate the atmosphere, so, that's out.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 5:47 pm

Just reposting this as its been reported that members of the Shadow Cabinet believe the conditions laid out in the motion on Syria passed by Labour Party conference in September had been met. They clearly bloody haven't. There's no mandate from the Labour Party

My bold: Just clipped and pasted this extract from Facebook...Is it right?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 5:50 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:Nick Hurd to replace Shapps. Another Bullingdon Club member.

Cameron won't hire out of his comfort zone...

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 5:51 pm

''neither the Party nor I can find any record of written allegations of bullying''

What does that even mean ?
That no one could even be arsed to make a written record of complaints made ?

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 5:51 pm

Jeremy Corbyn scheduled to be on Marr tomorrow

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 5:55 pm

yahyah wrote:''neither the Party nor I can find any record of written allegations of bullying''

What does that even mean ?
That no one could even be arsed to make a written record of complaints made ?

Varsi said she wrote to Shapps http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ng-by-aide" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 5:56 pm

yahyah wrote:Sorry about my negativity this morning.
Low blood sugar before breakfast hit the spot, and too much listening to the BBC.

As John McDonnell said, Labour is a broad church.
That means there will always be people with interest in their own careers, money making enterprises, back stabbing etc., it's just human nature.

I've no problem with being rich, or different, or with choice. Each to its own ... Except when they try to do me or mine down for their own ends...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 6:03 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Just reposting this as its been reported that members of the Shadow Cabinet believe the conditions laid out in the motion on Syria passed by Labour Party conference in September had been met. They clearly bloody haven't. There's no mandate from the Labour Party
My bold: Just clipped and pasted this extract from Facebook...Is it right?

This is what I'm finding difficult Ohso. It's clear that some of the shadow cabinet - I don't know how many - believe we should go into Syria - but on what basis? The case as put by Cameron lacked big time on many points. What then are they measuring against?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 6:06 pm

I see there's nothing on Marr about the scandal engulfing the Tory party.
Not my words but how some papers have described it.
Who'd have guessed ?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 6:06 pm

yahyah wrote:''neither the Party nor I can find any record of written allegations of bullying''

What does that even mean ?
That no one could even be arsed to make a written record of complaints made ?

Well they deleted 1000s of emails on the orders of ....? ..... according to most of the reports I've read. It has remarkable similarities with the big clear out at News International, eh?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 6:09 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
refitman wrote:Out of interest, when was Corbyn meant to gain the "moderates" trust? Was is when they were talking about a coup before he'd even been elected? Was it when they refused the offer of Shadow posts and then moaned about not being in positions of power? Was it when they complained about Corbyn making Labour unelectable, but then started talking about throwing the London Mayor bid? Or the Oldham by-election? Has it been when the likes of Danczuk has spent every week dripping bile from Dacre and Murdoch pages?
Since when was Danczuk moderate? Have to admit I've been getting a touch twitchy of late about the use of the word "moderate" (the inverted commas being germane) almost as a term of abuse, lumping in everybody from Kippers (in all but name) like Danczuk to supporters of genuine moderates like Creasy, Burnham et al; it is akin to the way some threw around the label "Red Tories", as a pejorative label for all Labour supporters, in the run up to GE.

"Moderate", "Red Tory", "Corbynite" ....... are these labels really helping, as we try to find a way for the different wings of the Labour Party 'broad church' to work more harmoniously?
The problem with 'moderate' is that this is the term the media is using to refer to the right of the Labour party, which includes figures like Danczuk and Milburn as much as it does people like Tristram Hunt. They use the term to imply that anyone anti-Corbyn is reasonable and widely palatable, and because the more accurate term 'Blairite' is poison. It sets them against the so-called 'hard left'. It is therefore entirely understandable that people have quickly come to use the term 'moderate' as pejorative. It was the media and the 'moderates' themselves who made the term into a weapon, they can hardly complain when it is turned back on them.

I complain when something I've written or said is deliberately misrepresented for the purpose of shutting down honest communication between us while we cooperate with each other. It's sophistry. Ugly stuff and a waste of time. It's meant to divert and divide. You're not doing that. I haven't read anyone doing that here, it's only used by people who aren't for real, you know?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 6:16 pm

Remember that one of the papers, may have been the Mail, reported that five Tory MPs were allegedly around when a lot of the alleged sexual sleaze went on during these 'road trips'.
Two have apparently applied for injunctions against the paper.

More to come on it one suspects.

Also, and obviously all concerned claim their innocence of allegations, maybe the press will be poking into other Tory units.
If any of the allegations were to be proven it would beg the questions 'did this behaviour only occur in one small part of the party apparatus ?' & 'have things like this happened before ?'.

Again taking something from the News International scandal, we'll probably hear the words 'only one bad apple' along the line.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 6:17 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
yahyah wrote:''neither the Party nor I can find any record of written allegations of bullying''

What does that even mean ?
That no one could even be arsed to make a written record of complaints made ?
Well they deleted 1000s of emails on the orders of ....? ..... according to most of the reports I've read. It has remarkable similarities with the big clear out at News International, eh?

Is a time period given for the deletions ?

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 6:24 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
ohsocynical wrote: But Corbyn has been saying about the funding and arms sales. The snag is no-one's listening.
(my bold)

Correct. What media decide to focus on isn't necessarily democratic, fair, responsible or good. Most of media is owned and controlled by an elite uninterested in security or prosperity for everyone, just themselves. I've no idea what to do about it other than be wary of media, check sources over and over and hope like hell I get some truth.
Due to being so bad with names I'd not 'clocked' Corbyn before he stood for leader. Didn't have a clue who he was, but I was pleasantly surprised to find that he agreed with my view point on most things.

He's had no influence on me whatsover. I was already there.

Very similar to my own position, Ohso, in fact I only recognised him from the past (dim) from a quite old photo. I was familiar with John McDonnell though, and will admit that I took a bit more notice of him after youngest said he had met him and rated him as a good thinker, so I listened more and liked him. I was a real sceptic on JC, but not now. He works at a slower more considered pace, I like that. But then I like the way quakers come to decisions too.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 6:24 pm

Martin in Yorkshire ‏@martinradio 51m51 minutes ago
Doesn't anyone find this Shapps line of 'no written' complaints rubbish. Emails are written complaints in law. @IainDale @peterjukes

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 6:29 pm

yahyah wrote:Remember that one of the papers, may have been the Mail, reported that five Tory MPs were allegedly around when a lot of the alleged sexual sleaze went on during these 'road trips'.
Two have apparently applied for injunctions against the paper.

More to come on it one suspects.

Also, and obviously all concerned claim their innocence of allegations, maybe the press will be poking into other Tory units.
If any of the allegations were to be proven it would beg the questions 'did this behaviour only occur in one small part of the party apparatus ?' & 'have things like this happened before ?'.

Again taking something from the News International scandal, we'll probably hear the words 'only one bad apple' along the line.

And I'm not forgetting the stories about the alleged goings on in that Manchester hotel around the Tory conference. One of the alleged main people involved in all that is currently on trial for sex offences. This stuff around the Road Trip organisation with the young Tories just seems to fit with a general level of murk and exploitation.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 6:35 pm

If you have a personal and political philosophy about deliberately hurting the vulnerable, exploiting people for money and personal gain, the alleged behaviour isn't far behind.

If allegations are proven, it will be interesting to hear a psychologists view of the set up.

The Tories have tried hard to squash the idea of past paedophile connections at No 10 or Westminster.

Any story that shows organised sexual exploitation of young people - even if they are of legal age- shows that such an organised 'ring' can exist and would give insight into why a past one might have. Maybe another reason for what looks like a cover up.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 6:39 pm

Have just nearly set fire to some aubergine and peppers under the grill.
It'll be burnt veg and couscous tonight.

Night all. My mantra for the moment is 'things are as they are'. Helps maintain a bit of calmness.
No doubt all that will change after hearing Marr do his worst tomorrow.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 6:41 pm

John Edwards ‏@Johnfrededdy 57 mins57 minutes ago

Reports from friends saying possibly 2 million in London on #DontBombSyria protest march, maybe more
BBC says nothing

@BBCNews please confirm the numbers by return Many Thanks #DontBombSyria John Edwards added,
John Wiltshire @wiltshire544

More
John Wiltshire ‏@wiltshire544 3 mins3 minutes ago
@Johnfrededdy @BBCNews

BBC News; None that we could see !

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 6:44 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
yahyah wrote:Remember that one of the papers, may have been the Mail, reported that five Tory MPs were allegedly around when a lot of the alleged sexual sleaze went on during these 'road trips'.
Two have apparently applied for injunctions against the paper.

More to come on it one suspects.

Also, and obviously all concerned claim their innocence of allegations, maybe the press will be poking into other Tory units.
If any of the allegations were to be proven it would beg the questions 'did this behaviour only occur in one small part of the party apparatus ?' & 'have things like this happened before ?'.

Again taking something from the News International scandal, we'll probably hear the words 'only one bad apple' along the line.
And I'm not forgetting the stories about the alleged goings on in that Manchester hotel around the Tory conference. One of the alleged main people involved in all that is currently on trial for sex offences. This stuff around the Road Trip organisation with the young Tories just seems to fit with a general level of murk and exploitation.

I've had a sudden thought. Who remembers the report that the Cons were going to ship in Young Americans to do doorstepping in the run up to the election. Did they come?

Post by **refitman** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 6:45 pm

yahyah wrote:Have just nearly set fire to some aubergine and peppers under the grill.
It'll be burnt veg and couscous tonight.

Night all. My mantra for the moment is 'things are as they are'. Helps maintain a bit of calmness.
No doubt all that will change after hearing Marr do his worst tomorrow.

Have you been taking cooking tips from Mr Riots?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 6:50 pm

Stewart Hosie's on Marr. Someone ask him if the SNP would support France if they were newly independent and trying to get into EU and NATO.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 6:55 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
yahyah wrote:Remember that one of the papers, may have been the Mail, reported that five Tory MPs were allegedly around when a lot of the alleged sexual sleaze went on during these 'road trips'.
Two have apparently applied for injunctions against the paper.

More to come on it one suspects.

Also, and obviously all concerned claim their innocence of allegations, maybe the press will be poking into other Tory units.
If any of the allegations were to be proven it would beg the questions 'did this behaviour only occur in one small part of the party apparatus ?' & 'have things like this happened before ?'.

Again taking something from the News International scandal, we'll probably hear the words 'only one bad apple' along the line.
And I'm not forgetting the stories about the alleged goings on in that Manchester hotel around the Tory conference. One of the alleged main people involved in all that is currently on trial for sex offences. This stuff around the Road Trip organisation with the young Tories just seems to fit with a general level of murk and exploitation.
I've had a sudden thought. Who remembers the report that the Cons were going to ship in Young Americans to do doorstepping in the run up to the election. Did they come?

I remember the reports, they were specifically young republicans, iirc. I have no idea if they materialised. At the time it seemed like another of Camerons schemes, looked good (to some) as a headline, but little behind it.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 6:55 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Stewart Hosie's on Marr. Someone ask him if the SNP would support France if they were newly independent and trying to get into EU and NATO.

They could also ask him why Salmond thought it was more important to unveil a painting (? might have been a bust) than attend the debate on Syria, when he's the bleeding FOREIGN AFFAIRS SPOKESMAN!

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 6:56 pm

Pretty sure there is no big anti-war march today, if there was surely it would have had coverage *somewhere*.

(and indeed advance publicity, of which there was absolutely no sign)

Some wag didn't reproduce footage of the Feb 2003 protest and pass it off as contemporary, did they?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 6:59 pm

yahyah wrote:Have just nearly set fire to some aubergine and peppers under the grill.
It'll be burnt veg and couscous tonight.

Night all. My mantra for the moment is 'things are as they are'. Helps maintain a bit of calmness.
No doubt all that will change after hearing Marr do his worst tomorrow.

Goodnight, yahyah!

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 7:01 pm

Guardian reporting 4,000 blocking Whitehall by Downing Street.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... s-on-syria" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 7:03 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Pretty sure there is no big anti-war march today, if there surely it would have had coverage *somewhere*.

(and indeed advance publicity, of which there was absolutely no sign)

Some wag didn't reproduce footage of the Feb 2003 protest and pass it off as contemporary, did they?

Yeah. "2 million" sounded like rubbish, right off.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 7:06 pm

refitman wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Stewart Hosie's on Marr. Someone ask him if the SNP would support France if they were newly independent and trying to get into EU and NATO.
They could also ask him why Salmond thought it was more important to unveil a painting (? might have been a bust) than attend the debate on Syria, when he's the bleeding FOREIGN AFFAIRS SPOKESMAN!

It was a portrait.Of Alex Salmond.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 7:10 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Pretty sure there is no big anti-war march today, if there surely it would have had coverage *somewhere*.

(and indeed advance publicity, of which there was absolutely no sign)

Some wag didn't reproduce footage of the Feb 2003 protest and pass it off as contemporary, did they?
Yeah. "2 million" sounded like rubbish, right off.

There were protests, BBC News mentioned them at lunchtime. Although it was just a handful of people outside Downing St.