Monday 11th April 2016

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 5:22 pm

Maybe I imagined it....was having odd daytime dreams when poorly, a result of migraine aura symptoms.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 5:23 pm

Temulkar wrote:Denis fucked up there, Dave actually looked worried about the point he was raising, and relieved when he didnt have to answer.

Our friend, HindleA, has made an excellent point up the thread.
We've witnessed a truth-telling man calling a liar, 'dodgy', resulting not in the dodgy liar getting his bum thrown out of the House of Commons, but the truth-teller being told to leave instead.
I disagree with your analysis of Skinner's words and actions.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 5:24 pm

https://newstoad.net/2016/03/12/david-c ... -lib-dems/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- it was probably someone tweeting this that I saw.

Strap line...the news they don't want you to hear because it isn't true.

Maeght · Post by **Maeght** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 5:27 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
yahyah wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
I haven't been silent on it, but no one listens to me.
Yes we do!

Yahyah

Every time you comment in the Guardian I click.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 5:27 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:@yahyah

Just seen your comment on the G live blog. Where have you heard that rumour .... that Cameron's mum has joined the Lib Dems?

I seem to recall that was a story featured in the Daily Mash - featuring Mary Cameron swigging wine and having a laugh with Tim Farron

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 5:29 pm

yahyah wrote:https://newstoad.net/2016/03/12/david-c ... -lib-dems/

- it was probably someone tweeting this that I saw.

Strap line...the news they don't want you to hear because it isn't true.

Oh yeah - that one!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 5:35 pm

Jim Pickard ‏@PickardJE 2m2 minutes ago
For Sajid Javid to suggest government "co-investing" in PortTalbot would suggest he's finally listening to the more proactive @Anna_Soubry

Maybe he's realising that he's a goner if he sticks to his awful free market knows best at all costs approach. It's quite clear from the Scunthorpe deal announced today that others know - and care - an awful lot more than he does about what it takes to get a good deal organised and signed. The unions and MPs (Labour mostly) that have worked very very hard for 9 months deserve the credit. It's more than clear that any deal for Port Talbot is going to take some time to sort out ... and some kind of government investment and support is going to be needed - at the very least as an interim measure.

Tom Blenkinsop on Radio 4 at lunchtime sounded so knowledgeable and authoritative - makes Javid even more of a joke than he has appeared to be.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 5:37 pm

Tony Grew ‏@ayestotheright 9m9 minutes ago
On reflection Alan Duncan's comments earlier about "low achievers" more shocking than #DodgyDave outburst

Speaks to the disdainful 'plebs' attitude yet again. Tories showing their slips.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 5:38 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Temulkar wrote:Denis fucked up there, Dave actually looked worried about the point he was raising, and relieved when he didnt have to answer.
Our friend, HindleA, has made an excellent point up the thread.
We've witnessed a truth-telling man calling a liar, 'dodgy', resulting not in the dodgy liar getting his bum thrown out of the House of Commons, but the truth-teller being told to leave instead.
I disagree with your analysis of Skinner's words and actions.

The point is that the question - which was very pertinent and looked to have Cameron worried - was not heard because of the theatrics. Now I am all for calling out parliamentry language as bunkum, but when you have Cameron on the ropes over an issue like Tax avoidance, you dont get yourself thrown out of the ring - you knock the bastard out. Naliing Cameron is a far more important thing that a point about parliamentry language.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 5:41 pm

LabourLordsUK ‏@LabourLordsUK 6m6 minutes ago
Peers vote 280-194 in support of Amendt 8 to #HousingBill re: local authority discretion on #StarterHomes numbers - Opposition Maj. 86

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 5:45 pm

Labour BIS Team ‏@LabourBIS 31m31 minutes ago
'Labour MPs have raised steel issues no fewer that 200 times since the General Election a year ago' says @angelaeagle #SaveOurSteel

Angela Eagle ‏@angelaeagle 10m10 minutes ago
Bis Secretary refuses to confirm that the blast furnaces at Port Talbot will be retained - not good #saveoursteel

Maeght · Post by **Maeght** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 5:46 pm

1.Cameron says Corbyn accused him of distraction. The biggest distraction today has been waiting for Corbyn’s tax return, he says. He says it was published at 3.35pm - after this session started, meaning people could not scrutinise it.

2. In response to Dominic Grieve who invites Corbyn to write to Cameron explaining what he is supposed to have done wrong, Cameron says, having had to listen to Corbyn, he does not want to have to read a letter from him.

On a day when Cameron is supposed to be contrite he just can't help it can he - being spiteful and plain nasty.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 5:46 pm

Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick 2m2 minutes ago
Former Ukip MEP for the South West, Trevor Colman, has decided not to renew his membership of the party

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 5:48 pm

Temulkar wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
Temulkar wrote:Denis fucked up there, Dave actually looked worried about the point he was raising, and relieved when he didnt have to answer.
Our friend, HindleA, has made an excellent point up the thread.
We've witnessed a truth-telling man calling a liar, 'dodgy', resulting not in the dodgy liar getting his bum thrown out of the House of Commons, but the truth-teller being told to leave instead.
I disagree with your analysis of Skinner's words and actions.
The point is that the question - which was very pertinent and looked to have Cameron worried - was not heard because of the theatrics. Now I am all for calling out parliamentry language as bunkum, but when you have Cameron on the ropes over an issue like Tax avoidance, you dont get yourself thrown out of the ring - you knock the bastard out. Naliing Cameron is a far more important thing that a point about parliamentry language.

You've made a good point.
Skinner's words and actions interposed are likely more valuable than if he'd not said anything at that time.
'Nailing Cameron is a far more important thing...'
Skinner called out a liar, nailing Cameron

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 5:54 pm

Temulkar wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
Temulkar wrote:Denis fucked up there, Dave actually looked worried about the point he was raising, and relieved when he didnt have to answer.
Our friend, HindleA, has made an excellent point up the thread.
We've witnessed a truth-telling man calling a liar, 'dodgy', resulting not in the dodgy liar getting his bum thrown out of the House of Commons, but the truth-teller being told to leave instead.
I disagree with your analysis of Skinner's words and actions.
The point is that the question - which was very pertinent and looked to have Cameron worried - was not heard because of the theatrics. Now I am all for calling out parliamentry language as bunkum, but when you have Cameron on the ropes over an issue like Tax avoidance, you dont get yourself thrown out of the ring - you knock the bastard out. Naliing Cameron is a far more important thing that a point about parliamentry language.

I agree, Tem, although rephrasing with 'not so dodgy Dave' before retraction would have been fun.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 5:57 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Temulkar wrote:
citizenJA wrote: Our friend, HindleA, has made an excellent point up the thread.
We've witnessed a truth-telling man calling a liar, 'dodgy', resulting not in the dodgy liar getting his bum thrown out of the House of Commons, but the truth-teller being told to leave instead.
I disagree with your analysis of Skinner's words and actions.
The point is that the question - which was very pertinent and looked to have Cameron worried - was not heard because of the theatrics. Now I am all for calling out parliamentry language as bunkum, but when you have Cameron on the ropes over an issue like Tax avoidance, you dont get yourself thrown out of the ring - you knock the bastard out. Naliing Cameron is a far more important thing that a point about parliamentry language.
You've made a good point.
Skinner's words and actions interposed are likely more valuable than if he'd not said anything at that time.
'Nailing Cameron is a far more important thing...'
Skinner called out a liar, nailing Cameron

You don't nail cameron by calling him a liar to his face, he can and did laugh that off, you nail him by proving/exposing his lies, and forcing him to answer questions he doesnt want to answer. That is what Skinneer was doing at first and he lost it by being stubborn. He should have withdrawn and contined with the question about dave flipping his second home and the taxpayer subsidy on it, and the failure to give adequate answers to the question previously. Scurrility is not sarcasm and insolence not invective.

Watch the clip and look how worried is cameron is at first and then how relieved he is when Skinner is thrown out.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 5:58 pm

James O'Brien ‏@mrjamesob 3m3 minutes ago
I presume Alan Duncan routinely greets the police guarding the House of Commons (and people like him) with a "Good morning, low achievers!"

Quite.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 6:00 pm

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Re Inheritance Tax -

The point often missed (or deliberately ignored) is that it is not the dead person (who may well have already paid tax on what they leave behind) it's the person\s who benefit from what they inherit who are liable for the tax. So they are only paying tax once on what is effectively unearned income.

An obvious point about the "iht taxes income twice, unfair unfair" bleaters is that the value of someone's estate can substantially increase without the gains being taxed at all.

In 1986 we agreed to pay £19,000 for a house - a new build the developers were so keen to sell in the middle of a recession that they gave a £4,000 price reduction.. In 2016 that house, which we still live in, is valued at around £160,000. No-one has put in the slightest effort for that £141,000 capital gain. Nor has it been taxed in any way. The mortgage charged interest, obviously, and the money that paid the interest came from taxed income. But the capital gain was acquired simply by us not moving.

In a similar way, investment income is taxed, but the capital gain resulting from increases in share values is not taxed until the shares are sold or the shareholder dies and IHT applies.

Whinging about inheritance tax is most popular amongst three groups of people. Those it won't ever affect but misunderstand it (and are misinformed about it) and are scared it might, Randian wing nuts who think any tax is theft and evil, and people anticipating to leave or inherit a substantial amount of capital.

Edited for typos

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 6:05 pm

Paul Brand ‏@PaulBrandITV 7m7 minutes ago
MPs and @CommunityUnion agree Javid can only mean one thing by 'co-invest': part-nationalise Tata. Tho he won't say the word.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 6:09 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Stephen NolanVerified account
‏@StephenNolan
Breaking : UKIP tell Nolan show they will deport foreign doctors who get a parking ticket

The usual (partial) back-peddling in an attempt to remove UKIP feet from UKIP mouth while not quite withdrawing the statement and admitting they fouled up was got in early, by the foot-eater in person.

So maybe Nige won't have to rush to "distance" UKIP from this particular kipper. Which must be a welcome change for him. Or maybe not, his cultists are always ready to explain that the kipper didn't say what the kipper said, the kipper said it and was right to say it and any mention of UKIP, including verbatim video interviews with the Fuhrage, is a "smear". Oh - and look! That squirrel looks just like Commie Comrade Corbyn!!!

It's no wonder the "official Brexit" campaign wants nothing to do with Farrij or his "people's army". Though they're not entirely unhappy to build on foundations Farrij put a lot of work into laying.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 6:12 pm

I see the G has managed to get an article out of the Kendall 'hard left misogynists' claim.

Still no explanation of what constitutes hard left or data re prevalence of those in the defined group displaying misogyny.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 6:15 pm

dothestrand 23m ago
I don't think anyone in the Labour Party dislikes Liz Kendall because she's a woman.

Sorry - couldn't resist.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 6:21 pm

Ed Conway from Sky has published his income/tax details too.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 6:21 pm

LabourLordsUK ‏@LabourLordsUK 13m13 minutes ago
Third Lords defeat avoided today on #StarterHomes aspect of #HousingBill, as Govt promises 3rd Reading concession re: rural exception sites

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 6:29 pm

TR'sGhost wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Re Inheritance Tax -

The point often missed (or deliberately ignored) is that it is not the dead person (who may well have already paid tax on what they leave behind) it's the person\s who benefit from what they inherit who are liable for the tax. So they are only paying tax once on what is effectively unearned income.
An obvious point about the "iht taxes income twice, unfair unfair" bleaters is that the value of someone's estate can substantially increase without the gains being taxed at all.

In 1986 we agreed to pay £19,000 for a house - a new build the developers were so keen to sell in the middle of a recession that they gave a £4,000 price reduction.. In 2016 that house, which we still live in, is valued at around £160,000. No-one has put in the slightest effort for that £141,000 capital gain. Nor has it been taxed in any way. The mortgage charged interest, obviously, and the money that paid the interest came from taxed income. But the capital gain was acquired simply by us not moving.

In a similar way, investment income is taxed, but the capital gain resulting from increases in share values is not taxed until the shares are sold or the shareholder dies and IHT applies.

Whinging about inheritance tax is most popular amongst three groups of people. Those it won't ever affect but misunderstand it (and are misinformed about it) and are scared it might, Randian wing nuts who think any tax is theft and evil, and people anticipating to leave or inherit a substantial amount of capital.

Edited for typos

What about stamp duty? I assumed that as house prices rocket, especially here in the SE, more people are having to pay it.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 6:32 pm

Albert Owen MP ‏@AlbertOwenMP 2m2 minutes ago
Welsh Political Barometer: Labour retain lead while Plaid Cymru move up ahead of Assembly election http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2016-04-1 ... -election/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … solid Lab lead

Slightly cheering from Roger Scully.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 6:34 pm

AndrewSparrow ‏@AndrewSparrow 7m7 minutes ago
Alan Duncan clarifies his 'low-achievers' jibe - Success not same as wealth, he admits - http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... f457125418" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

He hasn't 'clarified' anything except his own disdainful attitude. Be better if he apologised for that. Pigs might ...

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 6:35 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Albert Owen MP ‏@AlbertOwenMP 2m2 minutes ago
Welsh Political Barometer: Labour retain lead while Plaid Cymru move up ahead of Assembly election http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2016-04-1 ... -election/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … solid Lab lead
Slightly cheering from Roger Scully.

I don't like Plaid, or their leader, but would rather have them as the second party than UKIP or the Tories.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 6:40 pm

My wife teaches at a local primary school. As the year above her were doing politics , they invited the local MP to come to the school & talk to the kids.
She turned up this morning with a body guard. I didn't realise 8 year olds were so dangerous

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 6:46 pm

yahyah wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Albert Owen MP ‏@AlbertOwenMP 2m2 minutes ago
Welsh Political Barometer: Labour retain lead while Plaid Cymru move up ahead of Assembly election http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2016-04-1 ... -election/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … solid Lab lead
Slightly cheering from Roger Scully.
I don't like Plaid, or their leader, but would rather have them as the second party than UKIP or the Tories.

2 Lib Dem constituency seats? Not sure about that.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 6:49 pm

A must watch!!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/02 ... 41760.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 6:50 pm

yahyah wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Albert Owen MP ‏@AlbertOwenMP 2m2 minutes ago
Welsh Political Barometer: Labour retain lead while Plaid Cymru move up ahead of Assembly election http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2016-04-1 ... -election/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … solid Lab lead
Slightly cheering from Roger Scully.
I don't like Plaid, or their leader, but would rather have them as the second party than UKIP or the Tories.

Neither do I. But if Labour do end up with 28 AMs - I think there's a possibility of them not needing to cave in to Plaid demands (such as badger killing) - they might do deals with the projected 2 Lib Dems on budget and other essentials.

My last canvassing session was depressing because of the level of non understanding of devolved government responsibilities, inability to distinguish between UK government policy and Welsh Labour policy, and also council responsibilities and who is making decisions / ruling in Pembrokeshire council. One woman was blaming Labour for the bedroom tax - YES - and insisted to me that the Plaid lady (Leanne Wood I presume) had said Labour could repeal it like Scotland if they wanted to. She would not accept that Wales did not have the same devolved powers as Scotland and that the bedroom tax was a Tory / Lib Dem UK government policy. Another woman went on about needing a change because everything was being cut and pointed out her fence needing fixing (this was a council house). She just couldn't get that we didn't have a Labour council ... we've got anything but that. And telling her that Labour had tried to amend the budget - asking for cuts in director posts in order to save some of the budget for vital services - clearly had her befuddled.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 6:50 pm

Maeght wrote:1.Cameron says Corbyn accused him of distraction. The biggest distraction today has been waiting for Corbyn’s tax return, he says. He says it was published at 3.35pm - after this session started, meaning people could not scrutinise it.

2. In response to Dominic Grieve who invites Corbyn to write to Cameron explaining what he is supposed to have done wrong, Cameron says, having had to listen to Corbyn, he does not want to have to read a letter from him.

On a day when Cameron is supposed to be contrite he just can't help it can he - being spiteful and plain nasty.

Second one was standard knockabout really. The first was pathetic. Nobody thinks Corbyn really published it then (before Cameron!) to evade scrutiny. People have the internet in the Commons anyway.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 6:52 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
yahyah wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: Slightly cheering from Roger Scully.
I don't like Plaid, or their leader, but would rather have them as the second party than UKIP or the Tories.
2 Lib Dem constituency seats? Not sure about that.

They do still have some support Tubby. But - like you - not sure if it will be constituency seats - unless there are a couple of places where they have serious incumbency and local luv.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 7:00 pm

Brecon and Radnor? I'd have thought Kirsty Williams needed Labour votes and Plaid votes to survive. Don't know if she'll get them.

Mind you, she got a good majority in 2011.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 7:08 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Brecon and Radnor? I'd have thought Kirsty Williams needed Labour votes and Plaid votes to survive. Don't know if she'll get them.

Mind you, she got a good majority in 2011.

And she's being touted as a future Lib Dem leader ... she'll need a seat for that, surely?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 7:15 pm

Maybe it was an error from Mr.Skinner,but I can tell you it resulted in a almighty massive cheer from all I have talked to,far from Labour supporters ,some of them,and certainly not seen as farce a la Peston but a bit of bloody honesty in a den of thieves.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 7:16 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
yahyah wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: Slightly cheering from Roger Scully.
I don't like Plaid, or their leader, but would rather have them as the second party than UKIP or the Tories.
Neither do I. But if Labour do end up with 28 AMs - I think there's a possibility of them not needing to cave in to Plaid demands (such as badger killing) - they might do deals with the projected 2 Lib Dems on budget and other essentials.

My last canvassing session was depressing because of the level of non understanding of devolved government responsibilities, inability to distinguish between UK government policy and Welsh Labour policy, and also council responsibilities and who is making decisions / ruling in Pembrokeshire council. One woman was blaming Labour for the bedroom tax - YES - and insisted to me that the Plaid lady (Leanne Wood I presume) had said Labour could repeal it like Scotland if they wanted to. She would not accept that Wales did not have the same devolved powers as Scotland and that the bedroom tax was a Tory / Lib Dem UK government policy. Another woman went on about needing a change because everything was being cut and pointed out her fence needing fixing (this was a council house). She just couldn't get that we didn't have a Labour council ... we've got anything but that. And telling her that Labour had tried to amend the budget - asking for cuts in director posts in order to save some of the budget for vital services - clearly had her befuddled.

(my bold)

I'm depressed and frustrated over it too
It's not an isolated mistake
It's shocking and won't do

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 7:17 pm

You'd think so.

The Tories could conceivably come fourth on votes, unless they come up with something substantial on Port Talbot and offshore tax.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 7:19 pm

We're a very sophisticated electorate in London. We know exactly whether something is down to Westminster, the London Mayor, the London Assembly, or our borough councillors (and in some cases, our borough mayor).

We then vote for Boris Johnson anyway.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 7:36 pm

Temulkar wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
Temulkar wrote:The point is that the question - which was very pertinent and looked to have Cameron worried - was not heard because of the theatrics. Now I am all for calling out parliamentry language as bunkum, but when you have Cameron on the ropes over an issue like Tax avoidance, you dont get yourself thrown out of the ring - you knock the bastard out. Naliing Cameron is a far more important thing that a point about parliamentry language.
You've made a good point.
Skinner's words and actions interposed are likely more valuable than if he'd not said anything at that time.
'Nailing Cameron is a far more important thing...'
Skinner called out a liar, nailing Cameron
You don't nail cameron by calling him a liar to his face, he can and did laugh that off, you nail him by proving/exposing his lies, and forcing him to answer questions he doesnt want to answer. That is what Skinneer was doing at first and he lost it by being stubborn. He should have withdrawn and contined with the question about dave flipping his second home and the taxpayer subsidy on it, and the failure to give adequate answers to the question previously. Scurrility is not sarcasm and insolence not invective.

Watch the clip and look how worried is cameron is at first and then how relieved he is when Skinner is thrown out.

Here's how the thing went down this afternoon - transcript from the Parliamentary website:

Sir Alan Duncan (Rutland and Melton) (Con)
Should not the Prime Minister’s critics just snap out of their synthetic indignation and admit that their real point is that they hate anyone who has even a hint of wealth in their life? May I support the Prime Minister in fending off those who are attacking him, thinking particularly of this place, because if he does not, we risk seeing a House of Commons that is stuffed full of low achievers who hate enterprise and hate people who look after their own family and who know absolutely nothing about the outside world?

[Dave Cameron - Tory MP for Whitney] The Prime Minister
I am grateful for my right hon. Friend’s support. We have a system for Members’ interests which was put in place at the end of 13 years of Labour Government. I think we should maintain that system. I do not want us to discourage people who have had a successful career in business or anything else from coming into this House and making a contribution. That is why I have said that for Prime Ministers and Chancellors, shadow Prime Ministers and shadow Chancellors, it is a different set of arrangements.

Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)
Does the Prime Minister recall that in the time after he became Prime Minister in the coalition, when he was dividing the nation between strivers and scroungers, I asked him a very important question about the windfall he received when he wrote off the mortgage of the premises in Notting Hill and did not write of the mortgage of the premises the taxpayers were helping to pay for in Oxford? I did not receive a proper answer then. Maybe “Dodgy Dave” will answer it now—[Interruption]—and by the way—[Hon. Members: “Withdraw!”]

[John Bercow - Tory MP for Buckingham] Mr Speaker
Order. I must ask the hon. Gentleman—[Interruption.] I do not require any assistance from some junior Minister—an absurd proposition! I invite the hon. Gentleman to withdraw the adjective he used a moment ago. He is perfectly capable of asking his question without using that word. It is up to him, but if he does not wish to withdraw it, I cannot reasonably ask the Prime Minister to answer the question. All he has to do is withdraw that word and think of another.

Mr Skinner
Which word?

Mr Speaker
I think he knows—the word beginning with D and ending in Y that he used inappropriately. Withdraw—it is very simple.

Mr Skinner
I know what you are talking about, Mr Speaker. This man has done more to divide this nation than anybody else, and he has looked after his own pocket. I still refer to him as “Dodgy Dave”—[Interruption.] Do what you like! [Interruption.]

Mr Speaker
Order. I am sorry, I must ask the hon. Gentleman to withdraw the word—

Mr Skinner
Not a chance!

Mr Speaker
Very well.

The Speaker ordered Mr Skinner, Member for Bolsover, to withdraw immediately from the House during the remainder of the day’s sitting (Standing Order No. 43), and the Member withdrew accordingly.

Mr Speaker
Needless to say, no reply is required to that question.

http://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/20 ... namaPapers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dave doesn't honourably speak the truth in the House.
Dave doesn't honourably answer questions put to him in the House.
Skinner was right.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 7:44 pm

Johnny Void has an interesting post today on future impact on UC claimants for employers failures to report as hmrc wishes. No link, my apologies, FB has been a bugger recently, today nothing I try and link to will work, others also have been having this problem.

Todays Bolsover intervention already being widely shared and applauded, and no sympathy for Cameron to be seen. The main gist is truthtellers get drummed out of the house while liars get to stay. Plenty of messages of disgust over that. And quite a lot more. Osbournes £3 being widely derided, as is the document itself. Where is the tax return, or did they think people to stupid to know the difference.....etc.etc.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 7:49 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:We're a very sophisticated electorate in London. We know exactly whether something is down to Westminster, the London Mayor, the London Assembly, or our borough councillors (and in some cases, our borough mayor).

We then vote for Boris Johnson anyway.

Boris Johnson (Tory) and Ken Livingstone (Labour) each received about a million votes in 2012
Only 38% of the sophisticated electorate in London bothered voting at all

http://www.ukpolitical.info/london-mayo ... n-2012.htm

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 7:50 pm

I see Tem's point,but the personality(whether you agree or not) is such is that you are being asked to apologise/withdraw from an honest opinion;that cannot be countenanced.Pride/false pride dependent on view.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 7:54 pm

As to the "he must have known/it was planned" ,simply untrue,many epithets are not asked to be withdrawn.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 7:55 pm

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam 9m9 minutes ago
Labour have just secured an emergency 3 hour debate tomorrow on steel after more MPs turned up to prove assent of House

Good on them. Apparently they were only given an hours notice of the steel announcement / questions today which is why so few MPs were present at the outset.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 7:55 pm

It depends who utters them and or the manner.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 7:57 pm

Jon Snow ‏@jonsnowC4 29m29 minutes ago
Cameron 's first pledge on 'opening the books' in Uk Tax Havens made in December has mysteriously disappeared from the Government Website:

Jon Snow is one of the journalists who reassure me that some do still question and look deeper.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 7:59 pm

Why I called the prime minister dodgy dave and would do to again.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/de ... er-7734873" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is a poll.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 8:04 pm

HindleA wrote:I see Tem's point,but the personality(whether you agree or not) is such is that you are being asked to apologise/withdraw from an honest opinion;that cannot be countenanced.Pride/false pride dependent on view.

Tem may be right - it may have been better if Skinner hadn't chosen this time to tell the truth about Dave.
Allowing that god awful Tory Duncan's 'inadequates hate the rich' remark followed by Dave's 'thirteen years of Labour...' non-remark to hang there like a stink might have been best.
There are other days to tell the House Dave is a liar.