FlyTheNest

StephenDolan wrote:

yahyah wrote:

Maeght wrote:On the politics live blog at the Guardian there have been- up to now - 12,903 comments. This must be a record. Wonder how many were sensible. Have only looked a a few pages and only found one or two.

Mine aren't. I just keep responding to the idiots.

The worst of it is the arrogance, the assumption that they have won.
It isn't over until the vote is cast. The Nats thought they were likely heading for independence at the end, they lost by over 10 points.

But to be honest I am not sure. People like backing the winner, and if people are undecided they may want to be one of the ones partying and enjoying a pint with Farage on the 24th.

I don't know. The GE showed how voting based on preconceptions of the outcome can (funnily enough) change the outcome.

StephenDolan wrote:

Maeght wrote:On the politics live blog at the Guardian there have been- up to now - 12,903 comments. This must be a record. Wonder how many were sensible. Have only looked a a few pages and only found one or two.

I'm sure I commented more than twice.

Tubby Isaacs wrote:

StephenDolan wrote:

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Somebody needs to flag up the trade war that Brexiters are happily leading us into.

Then again lots of people fall for "they want to sell us cars"

It's a good job that's all we buy from within EU otherwise we'd be in trouble....

We'll buy our own cars!

The ones with EU parts in them.

RogerOThornhill wrote:

Tubby Isaacs wrote:

StephenDolan wrote: It's a good job that's all we buy from within EU otherwise we'd be in trouble....

We'll buy our own cars!

The ones with EU parts in them.

Trouble is that as soon as we vote to exit, people will worry about the future, worry about a recession, put off big spending decisions...and then...

Tubby Isaacs wrote:I see the idiot Gove a couple of months ago said we could sit in the EU blocking everything till they gave us what we wanted.

He hadn't noticed Qualified Majority Voting.

yahyah wrote:I obviously have a dictatorial streak. If it were up to me the 65% who haven't been arsed to vote in EU MEP elections would not be allowed to vote on the 23rd.
All that whining about it not being democratic and they haven't bothered to take part in democracy.

ohsocynical wrote:So, if it's Leave, there is a two year wait for it to swing into effect?


What if the country during that two years realises it's made a mistake? Can that two years be used as a cooling off period?

HindleA wrote:I least it will be still be called April,or something like that.

gilsey wrote:My brother was born and raised in England and left for the US with his wife when they were about 25.
They are now unquestionably Americans.

I have faith that they're Democrats, but not so much faith that I dare ask.

Hedgehogs continue to disappear from British gardens, wildlife survey shows (Guardian)

HindleA wrote:Should be a don't know/neither option,interesting if that "won"

yahyah wrote:

HindleA wrote:I least it will be still be called April,or something like that.

It'll probably be 'Month of the Thousand Flowering Farages' under the new British Lion Roars again calendar year 0000.

gilsey wrote:My brother was born and raised in England and left for the US with his wife when they were about 25.
They are now unquestionably Americans.

I have faith that they're Democrats, but not so much faith that I dare ask.

ohsocynical wrote:

gilsey wrote:My brother was born and raised in England and left for the US with his wife when they were about 25.
They are now unquestionably Americans.

I have faith that they're Democrats, but not so much faith that I dare ask.

Oh God. Don't ask.

Mr Ohso is American, but our daughter was born here. Is/was as English as bread and butter. Has lived in the States since 1989. Is American through and through now, although I'll never understand how you can just throw off your first 24 years of your birth country. She is disgracefully right wing. She married an American who is so far to the right I can't bring myself to write or talk to him.

Thank the Lord Mr Ohso isn't that way. We'd never have stayed married.

ohsocynical wrote:

yahyah wrote:

HindleA wrote:I least it will be still be called April,or something like that.

It'll probably be 'Month of the Thousand Flowering Farages' under the new British Lion Roars again calendar year 0000.

The second dark age?

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ty-grounds


North Middlesex hospital A&E faces closure on safety grounds
Exclusive: Move would be first in NHS history, as internal documents seen by the Guardian show junior staff often left in charge of casualty unit

Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 13m13 minutes ago
Ignoring immigration doesn’t work. Here are five reforms remain can sign up to | Yvette Cooper
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 6m6 minutes ago
Wouldn't a dead heat be wonderful? There's no provision, I understand, for a national recount

The information you supply will always be handled securely and in compliance with the UK Data Protection Act 1998 and all other relevant legislation. Your personal data may be shared within the campaign, and with organisations and partners with which we have a strategic relationship for the campaign, or which perform work for our campaign, so that we can keep you informed. Your data may be held on servers outside the EEA. For clarity, personal data will never be rented or sold to others, nor passed to any registered political party. Promoted by Matthew Elliott on behalf of Vote Leave Ltd, both of 3 Albert Embankment SE1 7SP.

Imagine the vote on 23 June is whether we should join the EU - with the Euro crisis, the migration crisis, and new countries like Turkey and Serbia being lined up as member states would you vote to join the European Union? If not, vote leave.

Tubby Isaacs wrote:

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ty-grounds


North Middlesex hospital A&E faces closure on safety grounds
Exclusive: Move would be first in NHS history, as internal documents seen by the Guardian show junior staff often left in charge of casualty unit

Mid Staffs!

RogerOThornhill wrote:

Tubby Isaacs wrote:

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ty-grounds


North Middlesex hospital A&E faces closure on safety grounds
Exclusive: Move would be first in NHS history, as internal documents seen by the Guardian show junior staff often left in charge of casualty unit

Mid Staffs!

No, no it's different now - it's the NHS's fault. can't possibly blame the government!

I think the shift of who's fault it all is changed around 2010.

citizenJA wrote:

gilsey wrote:My brother was born and raised in England and left for the US with his wife when they were about 25.
They are now unquestionably Americans.

I have faith that they're Democrats, but not so much faith that I dare ask.

Americans are great, I'm sure they're lovely, many Americans are.

The US Democrats don't have the beautiful history of the UK Labour party. It's not the fault of current US Democrats. There's nothing
anyone can do about history but learn from it.

The US has spectacularly failed people by not implementing an affordable, national healthcare system. All due to allowing business
interests to influence bad social policy so a few can make money. Shameful. It could be done but it's not. A choice made.

rebeccariots2 wrote:

Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 13m13 minutes ago
Ignoring immigration doesn’t work. Here are five reforms remain can sign up to | Yvette Cooper
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's already rather bloody BTL.

I welcome her addressing the issue head on though.

Independence campaigners say they have been instructed by Jesus to remain camped outside the Scottish Parliament.

Campaigner Richard McFarlane told the Court of Session on Tuesday that he had spoken to Jesus personally.
He told judge Lord Turnbull that Jesus also told them the indie camp wants the Stone of Destiny.
The court heard how the stone would be used in a “Coronation” ceremony for Christ.
Mr McFarlane said: “We have spoken to Jesus who is here for his second coming and he would like you to stop this if you can please.

Mr McFarlane also told the court that he and his fellow campaigners contacted 144 lawyers to see whether they would take their case.
The court heard that every one of the lawyers told them that they were unable to act for them.

Focusing on immigration from the EU is hopelessly simplistic

- Heidi Alexander
Labour MP - Lewisham East
Shadow Secretary of State for Health

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -geography" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I confess. I’m a geographer with a geeky interest in demographics. I’ve been thinking about this a lot in the last few weeks.
Why? Because the EU referendum debate has left me feeling that the leave campaigners could urgently do with a crash course
in GCSE geography, with an hour of 20th century history thrown in.

ohsocynical wrote:

citizenJA wrote:

gilsey wrote:My brother was born and raised in England and left for the US with his wife when they were about 25.
They are now unquestionably Americans.

I have faith that they're Democrats, but not so much faith that I dare ask.

Americans are great, I'm sure they're lovely, many Americans are.

The US Democrats don't have the beautiful history of the UK Labour party. It's not the fault of current US Democrats. There's nothing
anyone can do about history but learn from it.

The US has spectacularly failed people by not implementing an affordable, national healthcare system. All due to allowing business
interests to influence bad social policy so a few can make money. Shameful. It could be done but it's not. A choice made.

Agree with you about big business, but I constantly read and hear them say, 'I work hard, why should money I'd contribute for myself and my family help pay for lazy bums who don't want to work?'. Lazy bums seems to cover the whole range of those who aren't working.
Daft we know, because a universal system works out a lot cheaper than private insurance, but it's a very prevalent attitude.
I've gone blue in the face trying to explain how it benefits everyone, even tried to convert a doctors wife who is a relative of Mr Ohso's, but they don't seem to want to get it.

Horrible to see it being echoed over here now.

Leave.eu’s cartoon is not just racist – it’s worse than that
- Andrew Brown

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... itism-1945" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Paul Mason ‏@paulmasonnews 56m56 minutes ago
Remain and Renegotiate! Labour should make a radical new offer on EU migration.

Remain and Renegotiate! How to stop the Brexit bandwagon
Labour needs an urgent new offer on EU migration
Three Labour figures — Tom Watson, Ed Balls and Tristram Hunt — have, in the past 24 hours, called for a revision to the EU free movement rules. This needs to be translated into an immediate offer aimed at swinging the referendum for Remain. Labour has to explicitly embrace renegotiation of the EU Treaty...
https://medium.com/mosquito-ridge/remai ... .7e6j42gal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA wrote:

Leave.eu’s cartoon is not just racist – it’s worse than that
- Andrew Brown

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... itism-1945" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nearly a thousand comments in four hours, now comments closed. Brown's article is excellent.

rebeccariots2 wrote:

Paul Mason ‏@paulmasonnews 56m56 minutes ago
Remain and Renegotiate! Labour should make a radical new offer on EU migration.

Remain and Renegotiate! How to stop the Brexit bandwagon
Labour needs an urgent new offer on EU migration
Three Labour figures — Tom Watson, Ed Balls and Tristram Hunt — have, in the past 24 hours, called for a revision to the EU free movement rules. This needs to be translated into an immediate offer aimed at swinging the referendum for Remain. Labour has to explicitly embrace renegotiation of the EU Treaty...
https://medium.com/mosquito-ridge/remai ... .7e6j42gal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He's putting forward lots of specific proposals - with the aim of rebuilding a consent for immigration. It's well worth reading. Thank goodness someone is prepared to be more strident / brave with their ideas.

The big IF obstacle however is that if Cameron couldn't get anywhere with his poxy renegotiation prior to a referendum - what chance, if any, is there of something ltogether more radical getting any kind of look in post referendum?

HindleA wrote:Pies-aaaaaaaaarghhh

rebeccariots2 wrote:

HindleA wrote:Pies-aaaaaaaaarghhh

And none of them wrapped ... definitely the stuff of nightmares for you HindleA.