Wednesday 8th February 2017

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 8:26 pm

http://www.newstatesman.com/2017/02/hou ... le-england" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The housing white paper is a damp squib - because the government is afraid of Middle England

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 8:27 pm

Middle England, Little England, Big Britain.

Load of Bollox.
(apologies Mr H, am having a small seethe)

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 8:29 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Middle England, Little England, Big Britain.

Load of Bollox.
(apologies Mr H, am having a small seethe)

The Tories have defined themselves as the party of Hard and I mean fucking rock hard Brexit.

Good.

Plenty of room for the rest of us to build alliances

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 8:34 pm

No apology necessary.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 8:39 pm

I always think of Shelley when I see "Mr H",of course it was Mrs but close enough.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 8:42 pm

HindleA wrote:I always think of Shelley when I see "Mr H",of course it was Mrs but close enough.

Especiall t someon wh doesn' en thei word.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 8:42 pm

52 Labour MPs voted no to 3rd reading

Heidi Alexander
Rushanara Ali
Graham Allen
Rosena Allin-Khan
Luciana Berger
Ben Bradshaw
Kevin Brennan
Lyn Brown
Chris Bryant
Karen Buck
Dawn Butler
Ruth Cadbury
Ann Clywd
Ann Coffey
Neil Coyle
Mary Creagh
Stella Creasy
Geraint Davies
Thangham Debbonaire
Stephen Doughty
Jim Dowd
Maria Eagle
Louise Ellman
Paul Farrelly
Vicky Foxcroft
Mike Gapes
Kate Green
Lilian Greenwood
Helen Hayes
Meg Hillier
Rupa Huq
Peter Kyle
David Lammy
Clive Lewis
Rachael Maskell
Kerry McCarthy
Alison McGovern
Catherine McKinnell
Madelaine Moon
Ian Murray
Chi Onwurah
Stephen Pound
Virendra Sharma
Tulip Siddiq
Andy Slaughter
Jeff Smith
Owen Smith
Jo Stevens
Stephen Timms
Catherine West
Alan Whitehead
Daniel Zeichner

Some are whips & probably some are junior ministers so the re-shuffle will be erm....interesting !

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 8:50 pm

Eagle "split"

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 8:51 pm

Pis of

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 9:03 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... or-website" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Wikipedia bans Heil as unreliable source

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 9:03 pm

Confirmation of above.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 9:03 pm

SPOOKY

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 9:05 pm

Solidarity post.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 9:07 pm

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 9:07 pm

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 9:08 pm

Going for the hat trick

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 9:10 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/environmen ... 70161.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Government accused of trying to kill off UK solar industry before it can become cheapest form of electricity
Official figures project solar will be less expensive than gas in the next few years, but a massive new tax hike could put that at risk

psychopaths

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 9:15 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 67356.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
wife leaves husband of 22 years because he voted for the Donald

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 9:18 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ournemouth" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fears of 'two-tier NHS' as GPs allow fee-paying patients to jump the queue

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 9:23 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Million-name petition urges Senate to deny Jeff Sessions confirmation
Trump’s pick for attorney general ‘entirely unfit’ say activists, with NAACP president calling Alabama senator’s nomination ‘deeply troubling’

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 9:24 pm

Night night.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 9:28 pm

Goo Nigh

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 9:56 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/25- ... 67866.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
We should be worried about the Government’s lack of a post-Brexit plan for the environment
Tailoring agri-environment schemes to fit regional requirements and the needs of endangered species like turtledoves and skylarks will be key, and so will funding in a post-EU subsidy world

Brexit means more than just Brexit

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 9:59 pm

Mention of pilot areas here for those not interested.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... 17-to-2018" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 10:29 pm

Howeve many thousands of links to vaguely interesting news stories are posted, the single biggest issue of our era is Brexit.

The Labour leader just announced that the "real fight starts now."

Obviously, tragically, badly wrong. Or dishonest.

You shouldn't vote for a party that votes for evil things.

Vote Green

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 10:35 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:Howeve many thousands of links to vaguely interesting news stories are posted, the single biggest issue of our era is Brexit.

The Labour leader just announced that the "real fight starts now."

Obviously, tragically, badly wrong. Or dishonest.

You shouldn't vote for a party that votes for evil things.

Vote Green

Yeah vote Green for don't trigger Article 50 just yet. That'll be better. Good luck to you

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 10:39 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Howeve many thousands of links to vaguely interesting news stories are posted, the single biggest issue of our era is Brexit.

The Labour leader just announced that the "real fight starts now."

Obviously, tragically, badly wrong. Or dishonest.

You shouldn't vote for a party that votes for evil things.

Vote Green
Yeah vote Green for don't trigger Article 50 just yet. That'll be better. Good luck to you

Too late now. We just left.

But I judge parties by what they do. Labour just voted to Ake the poor poorer. Worse. Their MPs know it.

Shame. Shame. Shame.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 10:42 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Howeve many thousands of links to vaguely interesting news stories are posted, the single biggest issue of our era is Brexit.

The Labour leader just announced that the "real fight starts now."

Obviously, tragically, badly wrong. Or dishonest.

You shouldn't vote for a party that votes for evil things.

Vote Green
Yeah vote Green for don't trigger Article 50 just yet. That'll be better. Good luck to you

Too late now. We just left.

But I judge parties by what they do. Labour just voted to Ake the poor poorer. Worse. Their MPs know it.

Shame. Shame. Shame.

Yeah. All Labour's fault. A referendum they didn't want.

It's what I always wanted from a left leaning forum. Spend all day criticising Labour. It's so rewarding.

And so lovely to let the Tories just skate on by wrecking the place.

Just perfect

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 10:43 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:Howeve many thousands of links to vaguely interesting news stories are posted, the single biggest issue of our era is Brexit.

The Labour leader just announced that the "real fight starts now."

Obviously, tragically, badly wrong. Or dishonest.

You shouldn't vote for a party that votes for evil things.

Vote Green

A Green would understand that thee single biggest issue of our era is climate change, and the survival of our species, along with the rest of life on earth - Brexit pales in comparison, but you're not a real Green, your just a convolvulus.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 10:46 pm

Temulkar wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Howeve many thousands of links to vaguely interesting news stories are posted, the single biggest issue of our era is Brexit.

The Labour leader just announced that the "real fight starts now."

Obviously, tragically, badly wrong. Or dishonest.

You shouldn't vote for a party that votes for evil things.

Vote Green
A Green would understand that thee single biggest issue of our era is climate change, and the survival of our species, along with the rest of life on earth - Brexit pales in comparison, but you're not a real Green, your just a convolvulus.

An intelligent Green would realise that all of these are best pursued within the EU, and that the UKs leaving sets them all back catastrophically.

The EU not being an end in itself.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 10:48 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote: Yeah vote Green for don't trigger Article 50 just yet. That'll be better. Good luck to you

Too late now. We just left.

But I judge parties by what they do. Labour just voted to Ake the poor poorer. Worse. Their MPs know it.

Shame. Shame. Shame.
Yeah. All Labour's fault. A referendum they didn't want.

It's what I always wanted from a left leaning forum. Spend all day criticising Labour. It's so rewarding.

And so lovely to let the Tories just skate on by wrecking the place.

Just perfect

How did Labour vote on the referendum?

How did it just vote on leaving the EU?

Vote for another leftwing party that does not do evil things.

Vote Green.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 10:50 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
Temulkar wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Howeve many thousands of links to vaguely interesting news stories are posted, the single biggest issue of our era is Brexit.

The Labour leader just announced that the "real fight starts now."

Obviously, tragically, badly wrong. Or dishonest.

You shouldn't vote for a party that votes for evil things.

Vote Green
A Green would understand that thee single biggest issue of our era is climate change, and the survival of our species, along with the rest of life on earth - Brexit pales in comparison, but you're not a real Green, your just a convolvulus.
An intelligent Green would realise that all of these are best pursued within the EU, and that the UKs leaving sets them all back catastrophically.

The EU not being an end in itself.

I thought you said Brexit was a done deal, so perhaps Hugo we could stop talking about it.

Meanwhile in Surrey....

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 10:51 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
Too late now. We just left.

But I judge parties by what they do. Labour just voted to Ake the poor poorer. Worse. Their MPs know it.

Shame. Shame. Shame.
Yeah. All Labour's fault. A referendum they didn't want.

It's what I always wanted from a left leaning forum. Spend all day criticising Labour. It's so rewarding.

And so lovely to let the Tories just skate on by wrecking the place.

Just perfect
How did Labour vote on the referendum?

How did it just vote on leaving the EU?

Vote for another leftwing party that does not do evil things.

Vote Green.

Vote Green, as Saint Caroline said, to not trigger Article 50 too hastily

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 10:51 pm

Meanwhile in Surrey....

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 10:53 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote: Yeah vote Green for don't trigger Article 50 just yet. That'll be better. Good luck to you

Too late now. We just left.

But I judge parties by what they do. Labour just voted to Ake the poor poorer. Worse. Their MPs know it.

Shame. Shame. Shame.
Yeah. All Labour's fault. A referendum they didn't want.

It's what I always wanted from a left leaning forum. Spend all day criticising Labour. It's so rewarding.

And so lovely to let the Tories just skate on by wrecking the place.

Just perfect

----------------------------------------------------

Paul -- " Yeah. All Labour's fault. A referendum they didn't want."

I thought the vote FOR the referendum was six to one ... am I wrong ?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 10:57 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
Temulkar wrote: A Green would understand that thee single biggest issue of our era is climate change, and the survival of our species, along with the rest of life on earth - Brexit pales in comparison, but you're not a real Green, your just a convolvulus.
An intelligent Green would realise that all of these are best pursued within the EU, and that the UKs leaving sets them all back catastrophically.

The EU not being an end in itself.
I thought you said Brexit was a done deal, so perhaps Hugo we could stop talking about it.

Meanwhile in Surrey....

Look, over there!

Sorry, it dwarfs everything. All the other things, including the money for social care, turn on it. And Labour just voted to shoot ourselves in the face.

But hey, there are other things. Like football and the weather.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:02 pm

Diane Abbott is such a cowardly hypocrite. What an embarrassment on Newsnight.

Booooooooook.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:03 pm

frog222 wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
Too late now. We just left.

But I judge parties by what they do. Labour just voted to Ake the poor poorer. Worse. Their MPs know it.

Shame. Shame. Shame.
Yeah. All Labour's fault. A referendum they didn't want.

It's what I always wanted from a left leaning forum. Spend all day criticising Labour. It's so rewarding.

And so lovely to let the Tories just skate on by wrecking the place.

Just perfect
----------------------------------------------------

Paul -- " Yeah. All Labour's fault. A referendum they didn't want."

I thought the vote FOR the referendum was six to one ... am I wrong ?

No not wrong. They were silly but they didn't want it. Harman

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:08 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
frog222 wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote: Yeah. All Labour's fault. A referendum they didn't want.

It's what I always wanted from a left leaning forum. Spend all day criticising Labour. It's so rewarding.

And so lovely to let the Tories just skate on by wrecking the place.

Just perfect
----------------------------------------------------

Paul -- " Yeah. All Labour's fault. A referendum they didn't want."

I thought the vote FOR the referendum was six to one ... am I wrong ?
No not wrong. They were silly but they didn't want it. Harman

Right.

So Labour is ok because it disagrees with the things it votes for?

It is just a bit absent minded, but fundamentally ok?

This is just "my party right or wrong" stuff.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:11 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
frog222 wrote: ----------------------------------------------------

Paul -- " Yeah. All Labour's fault. A referendum they didn't want."

I thought the vote FOR the referendum was six to one ... am I wrong ?
No not wrong. They were silly but they didn't want it. Harman

Right.

So Labour is ok because it disagrees with the things it votes for?

It is just a bit absent minded, but fundamentally ok?

This is just "my party right or wrong" stuff.

Oh sod off. You're boring.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:12 pm

Me too. Bye.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:14 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
frog222 wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote: Yeah. All Labour's fault. A referendum they didn't want.

It's what I always wanted from a left leaning forum. Spend all day criticising Labour. It's so rewarding.

And so lovely to let the Tories just skate on by wrecking the place.

Just perfect
----------------------------------------------------

Paul -- " Yeah. All Labour's fault. A referendum they didn't want."

I thought the vote FOR the referendum was six to one ... am I wrong ?
No not wrong. They were silly but they didn't want it. Harman

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and obviously I can't say I would have done differently .

PERHAPS at some time to come the Labour Leader might come clean and admit she/he and their Party made a Great Big Fat Mistake in not being more forensic and thinking through exactly what a referendum involved, in practical consequences etc etc .

And then they should have opposed it ? Or perhaps made very serious amendments at least ....

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:19 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
Temulkar wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Howeve many thousands of links to vaguely interesting news stories are posted, the single biggest issue of our era is Brexit.

The Labour leader just announced that the "real fight starts now."

Obviously, tragically, badly wrong. Or dishonest.

You shouldn't vote for a party that votes for evil things.

Vote Green
A Green would understand that thee single biggest issue of our era is climate change, and the survival of our species, along with the rest of life on earth - Brexit pales in comparison, but you're not a real Green, your just a convolvulus.
An intelligent Green would realise that all of these are best pursued within the EU, and that the UKs leaving sets them all back catastrophically.

The EU not being an end in itself.

An informed Green knows that a global problem requires a global resonpnse not a mere continent and the smallest populated one as well...

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:27 pm

frog222 wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
frog222 wrote: ----------------------------------------------------

Paul -- " Yeah. All Labour's fault. A referendum they didn't want."

I thought the vote FOR the referendum was six to one ... am I wrong ?
No not wrong. They were silly but they didn't want it. Harman
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and obviously I can't say I would have done differently .

PERHAPS at some time to come the Labour Leader might come clean and admit she/he and their Party made a Great Big Fat Mistake in not being more forensic and thinking through exactly what a referendum involved, in practical consequences etc etc .

And then they should have opposed it ? Or perhaps made very serious amendments at least ....

Thanks for replying Frog, but I'm really off.

This place is just too weird for me. I do my best to be cheery, but I'm quite fragile really. I thought we were against the Tories here but it's no longer the case.

I have some lovely, lovely friends here. They will understand. See you, Paul

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:29 pm

Hugo is going to destroy this forum - he needs to be banned forever.

There, I've said it.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:32 pm

OpenSeas wrote:Thought for the day:-

Internationalism, open door immigration and the concept of 'global citizens' are the British electoral equivalent of a cup of cold sick.

- we are now out of the EU because of this
- for as long as these remain Labour's core values - they're fucked

I'm not a man of the cloth, so my phraseology is not always as velvet-smooth as the soothing tones of the 7.48am slot on the Today Programme.

Nonetheless, take care of yourselves. And each other.

And you can do one as well.

Your preferred brand of politics led to millions of deaths within living memory. I just hope that they do not this time round.

Though I fear bad things are ahead.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:50 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Hugo is going to destroy this forum - he needs to be banned forever.

There, I've said it.

I've found some of his links most interesting, even though there appears to be a GroupThink Rule to almost always NOT give him a reccommend. ( I've noticed some exceptions tho )

I don't know any of you people well enough to distinguish which are the most enraged Hugo-haters, tho I did find temulkar's recent one-day-long diatribes rather excessive .And extremely boring.

THEN, I used the scroll-thinggy on my mouse to zoom past the repetitious hatespeech.

I HAVE been told that SH is the worstest imaginable troll, but all I've seen in the last few days is a mixture of differing opinion, WITH a mischievous pulling of easily-pulled legs .

Montana banned EnglishHermit when he posted QUACK 'x' thousand times to destroy the thread at UT .

I really cannot see SH as such a Great Pollutant .

IF he is really so dishonest and horrible , leave him in a corner, all alone, mumbling into his pint

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:57 pm

I did tell Tem off for that

But its the little dishonesties that all add up over time, for instance that tonight "Labour voted to leave the EU". No, they (most of them, anyway) voted to begin the PROCESS of doing so - because the actual electorate had voted to do that (to the sorrow of many of us) last year.

Enough is enough.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:59 pm

The real point is that, in recent weeks, SH has become boring. And I never used to think that of them, despite our many and at times heated differences.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 12:05 am

I'm not off because of Hugo.

It's the whole tenor of the place.

I find myself arguing for Corbyn, who I never wanted as leader really, and for his Brexit stance, when I'm a fervent pro-European. And then I find myself trimming those arguments because I'm "Admin".

Despite the best efforts of some wonderful, wonderful fellow members, this Forum has become a divide Labour club and I don't want to participate, because I don't like division. It's bad for my mental health and I reckon bad for everyone.

I have lots of other ways to contribute to a better world and I'm not risking my wellbeing here with people who don't even listen to what others say.

I shall miss my FANTASTIC friends but will try and find you elsewhere. Love to you all x