FlyTheNest

And from Tom Pride:

Indy Scotland ‏@yesscotland14 3 mins3 minutes ago
And what the hell was wrong with the audience!!! #BORING #ManufacturedAudience #NotREALOpinions #leadersdebate

Aw... did the nasty audience not react with the expected groupthink?



And here's the Tory spin on the debate.

CCHQ Press Office ‏@CCHQPress 7 mins7 minutes ago
Now we know: Trident is Sturgeon's red line. Prime Minister Miliband would risk our national security #leadersdebate

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/gal ... ssex#img-6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For all those shameless Ed fans out there.

RobertSnozers wrote:

TechnicalEphemera wrote:

TheGrimSqueaker wrote: Labour Party policy is that Trident will not be replaced on a like for like basis and, in fact, may not be replaced at all (other options, such as cruise missiles, the RAF etc could be more effective); but the SNP keep pushing the line that Labour are committed to full replacement. So what exactly is Murphy supporting?

I would have thought the best option would be land based missile silos in East Anglia. Cruise is useless as a delivery mechanism as is the RAF.

The big upside of Trident is that it is a second strike weapon, which is a much better approach than land based systems that are vulnerable to a surprise attack.

I've always liked the idea of an air launched ballistic system like Skybolt, and I imagine with the technology advances since the 60s we could probably make the navigation work now, but the missiles would have to be designed from scratch, and we have no launch platform. But apart from that...

Hmm, those do seem to be some minor drawbacks...
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:

TechnicalEphemera wrote:

TheGrimSqueaker wrote: Labour Party policy is that Trident will not be replaced on a like for like basis and, in fact, may not be replaced at all (other options, such as cruise missiles, the RAF etc could be more effective); but the SNP keep pushing the line that Labour are committed to full replacement. So what exactly is Murphy supporting?

I would have thought the best option would be land based missile silos in East Anglia. Cruise is useless as a delivery mechanism as is the RAF.

The big upside of Trident is that it is a second strike weapon, which is a much better approach than land based systems that are vulnerable to a surprise attack.

Would the East Anglia silos be independent? Hard to imagine Trident being fired with American opposition. France's is different because Mitterrand and others always distrusted America' commitment to actual warfare.

I have often heard it said, but there is no evidence that the US could stop the UK firing them. I doubt the UK would have bought them on that basis.

In reality firing any such system would be a huge call, unless in response to an incoming attack. The big risk is with a first strike weapon you have to make a decision to launch in seconds when faced with the surprisingly regular report of an incoming strike ( well a few times in the west and once in Russia).

So really these days the systems exist to keep Russia and China grounded in reality and to remind sponsors of international terrorism that if they let their proxies use nuclear or biological weapons their own country will be wiped off the planet. To some degree this has worked as such an attack while very easy remains the staple diet only of Bond films and second rate action movies.

I recommend the film By Dawns Early Light if you can find it for a pretty good dramatisation of what could all go horribly wrong.

Spacedone wrote:

Indy Scotland ‏@yesscotland14 3 mins3 minutes ago
And what the hell was wrong with the audience!!! #BORING #ManufacturedAudience #NotREALOpinions #leadersdebate

Aw... did the nasty audience not react with the expected groupthink?



And here's the Tory spin on the debate.

CCHQ Press Office ‏@CCHQPress 7 mins7 minutes ago
Now we know: Trident is Sturgeon's red line. Prime Minister Miliband would risk our national security #leadersdebate

The tories have lost it haven't they?

Spacedone wrote:

Indy Scotland ‏@yesscotland14 3 mins3 minutes ago
And what the hell was wrong with the audience!!! #BORING #ManufacturedAudience #NotREALOpinions #leadersdebate

Aw... did the nasty audience not react with the expected groupthink?



And here's the Tory spin on the debate.

CCHQ Press Office ‏@CCHQPress 7 mins7 minutes ago
Now we know: Trident is Sturgeon's red line. Prime Minister Miliband would risk our national security #leadersdebate

LadyCentauria wrote:

AngryAsWell wrote:

LadyCentauria wrote:6-way Scottish Leaders' Debate starting on BBC News and BBC Parliament, now (9pm)
Viewers in Scotland should be seeing it on one of the main BBC channels, too.

I gave the link above

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-32159729" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sorry – I was way behind the times (only on page 2, I think) so hadn't seen your link at the time.

No prob, posts were flying in at the time, thought you might have missed the link

Spacedone wrote:

Indy Scotland ‏@yesscotland14 3 mins3 minutes ago
And what the hell was wrong with the audience!!! #BORING #ManufacturedAudience #NotREALOpinions #leadersdebate

Aw... did the nasty audience not react with the expected groupthink?



And here's the Tory spin on the debate.

CCHQ Press Office ‏@CCHQPress 7 mins7 minutes ago
Now we know: Trident is Sturgeon's red line. Prime Minister Miliband would risk our national security #leadersdebate

I've been reliably informed that, as the audience are from Edinburgh, they aren't 'real' Scots.

Spacedone wrote:

Indy Scotland ‏@yesscotland14 3 mins3 minutes ago
And what the hell was wrong with the audience!!! #BORING #ManufacturedAudience #NotREALOpinions #leadersdebate

Aw... did the nasty audience not react with the expected groupthink?



And here's the Tory spin on the debate.

CCHQ Press Office ‏@CCHQPress 7 mins7 minutes ago
Now we know: Trident is Sturgeon's red line. Prime Minister Miliband would risk our national security #leadersdebate

I thought the Scots were dead lively, compared with the tightly controlled audiences at the UK debates. Very enjoyable I thought. I like to see a bit of fire in their bellies.

Face desk, Farage and Red Dwarf all excellent by the way. Have a thousand thanks everybody, donated courtesy of my Non Domiciled status and large off shore stash of untaxed praise.

NumbrCrunchrPolitics ‏@NCPoliticsUK 6 mins6 minutes ago
YouGov/Sun:

CON 34 (+1)
LAB 35 (=)
LIB 8 (=)
UKIP 13 (-1)
GRN 5 (=)

Fieldwork 7th-8th

ohsocynical wrote:

Spacedone wrote:

Indy Scotland ‏@yesscotland14 3 mins3 minutes ago
And what the hell was wrong with the audience!!! #BORING #ManufacturedAudience #NotREALOpinions #leadersdebate

Aw... did the nasty audience not react with the expected groupthink?



And here's the Tory spin on the debate.

CCHQ Press Office ‏@CCHQPress 7 mins7 minutes ago
Now we know: Trident is Sturgeon's red line. Prime Minister Miliband would risk our national security #leadersdebate

I thought the Scots were dead lively, compared with the tightly controlled audiences at the UK debates. Very enjoyable I thought. I like to see a bit of fire in their bellies.

I agree it was pretty good. I like how the moderator was in the middle of them and prevented them from just spouting off pre-prepared answers by forcing them to explain themselves.

TechnicalEphemera wrote:I recommend the film By Dawns Early Light if you can find it for a pretty good dramatisation of what could all go horribly wrong.

Scared the hell out of me.

I have just been receiving a report on our third hustings from Mr Riots who went along on our behalf. If he is to be believed - and he is usually - our guy did very well and certainly much better than Stephen Crabb on the local economy, need for regeneration and jobs. Crabb did his usual blame it all on the Welsh government but got taken to task for this by members of the audience when it was about the NHS. Some of them had clearly had enough of his constant deflection and denial that problems had anything to do with the budget to Wales being cut ... and the constant slating of the Welsh NHS ... and told him in no uncertain terms that according to their relatives in England it was worse there, far worse. Our guy got applause for the way he answered the question on the NHS - which given it is a very hot, controversial subject locally is pretty good going. I think it's because he's not ducking away from the problems - is facing them head on and actually trying to do something constructive - and gets across his commitment and intention to carry on trying to sort the issues out.

Mr Microwave - as we are now fondly referring to our mystery candidate from the previous hustings - seems to have disappeared.

Here's a good example of why those online newspaper polls are completely worthless.

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/ne ... hts-event/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Apparently 78% of people voting in this poll think Sturgeon bestrode the debate like a colossus.

@NicolaSturgeon #leadersdebate #GE2015

"I would like full fiscal autonomy as quickly as the other parties agree to give it."

I wonder if this will drag some of those that were going to vote SNP back? The audience were certainly against it.

citizenJA wrote:

TechnicalEphemera wrote:I recommend the film By Dawns Early Light if you can find it for a pretty good dramatisation of what could all go horribly wrong.

Scared the hell out of me.

And that was just Powers Boothe's acting. Rebecca DeMornay was pretty good though.

ohsocynical wrote:@NicolaSturgeon #leadersdebate #GE2015

"I would like full fiscal autonomy as quickly as the other parties agree to give it."

I wonder if this will drag some of those that were going to vote SNP back? The audience were certainly against it.

I don't know, the thought of FFA should scare a lot of people. But the SNP supporters do increasingly resemble a sort of cult.

ohsocynical wrote:First time I've seen Murphy. I'm impressed.

The first time I saw him was after the Clutha Bar helicopter crash in Glasgow, he was nearby at the time, he was very impressive indeed. Not at all in a 'look at me' way, which you could imagine some others would find difficult to avoid.

Lucy Powell ‏@LucyMPowell 21m21 minutes ago
More desperate, negative stuff from the Tories tomorrow. They have nothing to say on their plans and vision for the country. Desperate.

What now?

Please don't let it be more Shapps - or Gove. Well actually, on second thoughts, maybe the best thing for us would be if they trot out Shapps or Gove or indeed any of the other Tory reps that are guaranteed to produce the ultimate shudder and euugh factor.

Michael Fallon, I think.

Ed's going to "stab the UK in the back like he stabbed his brother".

rebeccariots2 wrote:

Lucy Powell ‏@LucyMPowell 21m21 minutes ago
More desperate, negative stuff from the Tories tomorrow. They have nothing to say on their plans and vision for the country. Desperate.

What now?

Please don't let it be more Shapps - or Gove. Well actually, on second thoughts, maybe the best thing for us would be if they trot out Shapps or Gove or indeed any of the other Tory reps that are guaranteed to produce the ultimate shudder and euugh factor.

I'd guess she means the apocalyptic warnings in tomorrow's papers:

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:

Spacedone wrote:

Indy Scotland ‏@yesscotland14 3 mins3 minutes ago
And what the hell was wrong with the audience!!! #BORING #ManufacturedAudience #NotREALOpinions #leadersdebate

Aw... did the nasty audience not react with the expected groupthink?



And here's the Tory spin on the debate.

CCHQ Press Office ‏@CCHQPress 7 mins7 minutes ago
Now we know: Trident is Sturgeon's red line. Prime Minister Miliband would risk our national security #leadersdebate

I've been reliably informed that, as the audience are from Edinburgh, they aren't 'real' Scots.

I haven't watched it yet but it was filmed in Aberdeen (the city of my birth until I left, aged 17) so I'd be gobsmacked if the audience were from Edinburgh, a city some 150 miles away !

Whoever said earlier on that the Tories have really lost it .... yup, the Tories have really lost it. Clinging on to the Cain & Abel narrative - is that it, is that how they think they will win the election?

I have sent a tweet to Ian Katz & Evan Davis, asking why Gove got the stage to himself last night yet Chris Leslie had to share his slot with Ken Clarke, an estate agent & Mary Ann Seighart.

I reckon my chances of getting an answer are 10000000000000000/1

pk1 wrote:

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:

Spacedone wrote: Aw... did the nasty audience not react with the expected groupthink?



And here's the Tory spin on the debate.

I've been reliably informed that, as the audience are from Edinburgh, they aren't 'real' Scots.

I haven't watched it yet but it was filmed in Aberdeen (the city of my birth until I left, aged 17) so I'd be gobsmacked if the audience were from Edinburgh, a city some 150 miles away !

See, shows how in touch with reality that person was!

pk1 wrote:I have sent a tweet to Ian Katz & Evan Davis, asking why Gove got the stage to himself last night yet Chris Leslie had to share his slot with Ken Clarke, an estate agent & Mary Ann Seighart.

I reckon my chances of getting an answer are 10000000000000000/1

Wow.

rebeccariots2 wrote:Whoever said earlier on that the Tories have really lost it .... yup, the Tories have really lost it. Clinging on to the Cain & Abel narrative - is that it, is that how they think they will win the election?

I don't think they know how they are going to win the election. I think they assumed slagging off Miliband, running smear stories in the press and getting Dave photographed cuddling lambs was all it would take. I think they genuinely believed their own propaganda about miliband.

They neglected to bring plan B. Despite having months to work on it they are desperately re-writing the manifesto to make it less negative.