FlyTheNest

seeingclearly wrote:Not from where many pensioners stand, TE. If you think life is a doddle at this end really, think again. Millions aren't home owners, millions are women who never made it into well paid work. Huge amounts have been slashed on health budgets, that means GPSsome of whom run a 2tier system. many are filling child care or carers roles completely unpaid, and are supporting adult children. tbh I'm tired and not doing that well today otherwise I would have been more factual on this. Statistics are all very well but are not neccessrily revealing on the true nature of things. One of the less forgivable features of Tory thinking is getting statistics to become part of our everyday, and misusing them. This is not to say you are, but regardless of what you believe or think you know on this it's unbelievable that older people are being scapegoated. Of course a huge amount goes on pensioners. It's because they no longer generate their own incomes because they cannot do so or have yielded way for younger workers. I'm very tech on this. Lots of us for various reasons never got near the housing ladder and never could afford to catch up with NI. We are not the boomers of public mythology. Well, I never got the boom bit, neither did a lot of my peers.

rebeccariots2 wrote:

TechnicalEphemera wrote:Just to cheer you up a bit.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 48313.html

I read it earlier and it did - cheer me up.

I wonder if Cameron is going to regret some of the things he made such a big deal of in their manifesto ... this being one of them.

seeingclearly wrote:Not from where many pensioners stand, TE. If you think life is a doddle at this end really, think again. Millions aren't home owners, millions are women who never made it into well paid work. Huge amounts have been slashed on health budgets, that means GPSsome of whom run a 2tier system. many are filling child care or carers roles completely unpaid, and are supporting adult children. tbh I'm tired and not doing that well today otherwise I would have been more factual on this. Statistics are all very well but are not neccessrily revealing on the true nature of things. One of the less forgivable features of Tory thinking is getting statistics to become part of our everyday, and misusing them. This is not to say you are, but regardless of what you believe or think you know on this it's unbelievable that older people are being scapegoated. Of course a huge amount goes on pensioners. It's because they no longer generate their own incomes because they cannot do so or have yielded way for younger workers. I'm very tech on this. Lots of us for various reasons never got near the housing ladder and never could afford to catch up with NI. We are not the boomers of public mythology. Well, I never got the boom bit, neither did a lot of my peers.

ohsocynical wrote:

TechnicalEphemera wrote:

ohsocynical wrote:Fucking hell. They're starting on pensioners now on Twitter. Calling pensions, benefits, and it's from Strength and Honour. I didn't expect it of him.

Grey vote also getting the blame for Tories getting in - again.
Thinking of the number of 'grey' Tory voters that have died between 2010 & 2015, and Tories only increased their vote by .O8% doesn't read like their fault to me.

The Tory policy is aimed squarely at protecting pensioners at the expense of everybody else. It has been described as generational theft, with the current pensioners stealing the future of today's youth.

Pensioners vote in overwhelming numbers, and they vote Tory.

Pensions make up a huge (and increasing) percentage of spending on benefits. The degree to which a pension can be seen as a state benefit is however questionable. I wonder if anybody has asked the question what an average persons pension would be if there was no state pension and the payments had been put into a defined contribution scheme.

That may seem harsh but it is the truth.

Pensions were never classed as benefits until this lot got in. It's part of the blame culture.

And there are plenty of us who don't get pension credits...Mr Ohso and I are a few pounds a week above the limit and we know quite a few oldies in our position. It's another mistaken belief that you automatically get all the freebies when you retire. We still pay for our teeth, glasses etc.

ohsocynical wrote:

rebeccariots2 wrote:

TechnicalEphemera wrote:Just to cheer you up a bit.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 48313.html

I read it earlier and it did - cheer me up.

I wonder if Cameron is going to regret some of the things he made such a big deal of in their manifesto ... this being one of them.

Shouldn't think so if the last five years are anything to go by....

PorFavor wrote:

ohsocynical wrote:

TechnicalEphemera wrote: The Tory policy is aimed squarely at protecting pensioners at the expense of everybody else. It has been described as generational theft, with the current pensioners stealing the future of today's youth.

Pensioners vote in overwhelming numbers, and they vote Tory.

Pensions make up a huge (and increasing) percentage of spending on benefits. The degree to which a pension can be seen as a state benefit is however questionable. I wonder if anybody has asked the question what an average persons pension would be if there was no state pension and the payments had been put into a defined contribution scheme.

That may seem harsh but it is the truth.

Pensions were never classed as benefits until this lot got in. It's part of the blame culture.

And there are plenty of us who don't get pension credits...Mr Ohso and I are a few pounds a week above the limit and we know quite a few oldies in our position. It's another mistaken belief that you automatically get all the freebies when you retire. We still pay for our teeth, glasses etc.

I think pensions are included in the benefits figures purely for the purpose of inflating said figures and stirring up ill-feeling against benefits claimants who are mostly not pensioners. It's also helped to foster generational tensions.

ohsocynical wrote: Pensions were never classed as benefits until this lot got in. It's part of the blame culture.

And there are plenty of us who don't get pension credits...Mr Ohso and I are a few pounds a week above the limit and we know quite a few oldies in our position. It's another mistaken belief that you automatically get all the freebies when you retire. We still pay for our teeth, glasses etc.

rebeccariots2 wrote:

seeingclearly wrote:Not from where many pensioners stand, TE. If you think life is a doddle at this end really, think again. Millions aren't home owners, millions are women who never made it into well paid work. Huge amounts have been slashed on health budgets, that means GPSsome of whom run a 2tier system. many are filling child care or carers roles completely unpaid, and are supporting adult children. tbh I'm tired and not doing that well today otherwise I would have been more factual on this. Statistics are all very well but are not neccessrily revealing on the true nature of things. One of the less forgivable features of Tory thinking is getting statistics to become part of our everyday, and misusing them. This is not to say you are, but regardless of what you believe or think you know on this it's unbelievable that older people are being scapegoated. Of course a huge amount goes on pensioners. It's because they no longer generate their own incomes because they cannot do so or have yielded way for younger workers. I'm very tech on this. Lots of us for various reasons never got near the housing ladder and never could afford to catch up with NI. We are not the boomers of public mythology. Well, I never got the boom bit, neither did a lot of my peers.

There is no homogenous group of pensioners, I agree. These group labels are way past their sell by date.

I know there are some who are relatively well off or at least 'comfortable' - we know a few - but there are at least as many, if not many more, who are not. Mr Riots is still working at 70 because he couldn't manage on his state pension alone. One of my best canvassing pals is 68 and would desperately like to stop working because she is in so much pain a lot of the time ... but simply can't afford to as her pension doesn't cover the basic outgoings. I know many more like that. These are not people who didn't work ... they just weren't in the kind of jobs that gave them more than enough to live on wages and decent pensions.

rebeccariots2 wrote:

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 17m17 minutes ago
Labour left MPs collecting signatures for anti-austerity letter. New intake most left-leaning for a long time.

Ah - interesting developments ahead maybe.

And hello Ernst. I can see you are logged in. Very best wishes to you.

rebeccariots2 wrote:

ohsocynical wrote: Pensions were never classed as benefits until this lot got in. It's part of the blame culture.

And there are plenty of us who don't get pension credits...Mr Ohso and I are a few pounds a week above the limit and we know quite a few oldies in our position. It's another mistaken belief that you automatically get all the freebies when you retire. We still pay for our teeth, glasses etc.

You've given me a new perspective on the phrase 'these are all my own teeth' Ohso.

rebeccariots2 wrote:When a Labour spokesperson is asked to comment on ''welfare' spending and cuts in future ... wouldn't it be great if they started off each time by adjusting the overall figures to exclude pensions ... and stated so? This would be perfectly legitimate and make sense as Ohso said they've only been included / classed as 'benefits' fairly recently - and as the goverment have stuck a triple lock on pensions ... the allocated figures can't be changed that much through any cuts so should make no difference for them to be separated out again.

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:

rebeccariots2 wrote:When a Labour spokesperson is asked to comment on ''welfare' spending and cuts in future ... wouldn't it be great if they started off each time by adjusting the overall figures to exclude pensions ... and stated so? This would be perfectly legitimate and make sense as Ohso said they've only been included / classed as 'benefits' fairly recently - and as the goverment have stuck a triple lock on pensions ... the allocated figures can't be changed that much through any cuts so should make no difference for them to be separated out again.

But before they do that they need to make a point of calling it "social security".

rebeccariots2 wrote:

ohsocynical wrote: Pensions were never classed as benefits until this lot got in. It's part of the blame culture.

And there are plenty of us who don't get pension credits...Mr Ohso and I are a few pounds a week above the limit and we know quite a few oldies in our position. It's another mistaken belief that you automatically get all the freebies when you retire. We still pay for our teeth, glasses etc.

You've given me a new perspective on the phrase 'these are all my own teeth' Ohso.

ErnstRemarx wrote:

rebeccariots2 wrote:

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 17m17 minutes ago
Labour left MPs collecting signatures for anti-austerity letter. New intake most left-leaning for a long time.

Ah - interesting developments ahead maybe.

And hello Ernst. I can see you are logged in. Very best wishes to you.

Thank you. Life is no easier than it became a few weeks back. I hope to report better news soon.

ohsocynical wrote:

rebeccariots2 wrote:

ohsocynical wrote: Pensions were never classed as benefits until this lot got in. It's part of the blame culture.

And there are plenty of us who don't get pension credits...Mr Ohso and I are a few pounds a week above the limit and we know quite a few oldies in our position. It's another mistaken belief that you automatically get all the freebies when you retire. We still pay for our teeth, glasses etc.

You've given me a new perspective on the phrase 'these are all my own teeth' Ohso.

Had to fork out for a check up and then £40 on top to have them cleaned. I haven't many back teeth. I should have got half price.
I've had to have a lot out recently because Mr Ohso and I had to share the health costs. His went on his teeth, and mine had to go on glasses every year due to my cataracts...This year is the first time I haven't had to fork out for glasses instead the dentist has cost me over a hundred pounds in the last six months plus we've had Mr Ohso's dental tab. He hasn't had his eyes seen to for thirteen years so we need to find that from somewhere. He worked and was paying taxes until he was 73. Funny that we never begrudged it going to support the next generation.

ErnstRemarx wrote:

rebeccariots2 wrote:

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 17m17 minutes ago
Labour left MPs collecting signatures for anti-austerity letter. New intake most left-leaning for a long time.

Ah - interesting developments ahead maybe.

And hello Ernst. I can see you are logged in. Very best wishes to you.

Thank you. Life is no easier than it became a few weeks back. I hope to report better news soon.

citizenJA wrote:

rebeccariots2 wrote:

ohsocynical wrote: Pensions were never classed as benefits until this lot got in. It's part of the blame culture.

And there are plenty of us who don't get pension credits...Mr Ohso and I are a few pounds a week above the limit and we know quite a few oldies in our position. It's another mistaken belief that you automatically get all the freebies when you retire. We still pay for our teeth, glasses etc.

You've given me a new perspective on the phrase 'these are all my own teeth' Ohso.

People unable to eat adequately nutritious food without discomfort won't live as long as people with healthy teeth. I worked some years as a care worker in the USA. Properly fitted dentures, implants &/or the teeth we've grown ourselves all require regular dental care. Genetics can gift many people with healthy teeth with little trouble. Most people require dental work beyond a couple of check-ups a year for polishing. It costs individuals a fortune in the USA; the healthcare older US citizens are entitled to doesn't include enough assistance for dental work.

PorFavor wrote:Goodnight, everyone.

AngryAsWell wrote:Mary Creagh's page is up, I'm deeply unimpressed that she chose the Mail - of all papers - to give her declaration to
That's me not voting for her after all the shit they tossed at both Ed and Labour.

rebeccariots2 wrote:

AngryAsWell wrote:Mary Creagh's page is up, I'm deeply unimpressed that she chose the Mail - of all papers - to give her declaration to
That's me not voting for her after all the shit they tossed at both Ed and Labour.

I'm less worried by that AAW. Understand your anger about it though. My take is that she's actually trying to say she's not going to tread fearfully around them - she's started by introducing herself to them in no uncertain terms. I don't know whether that's wise or not - but it's certainly different. I feel I need someone who's prepared to be a bit different - and far more upfront - to head up Labour.

Reserving opinion on this one. But can see why many, as you, probably won't like it.

TechnicalEphemera wrote:

seeingclearly wrote:Not from where many pensioners stand, TE. If you think life is a doddle at this end really, think again. Millions aren't home owners, millions are women who never made it into well paid work. Huge amounts have been slashed on health budgets, that means GPSsome of whom run a 2tier system. many are filling child care or carers roles completely unpaid, and are supporting adult children. tbh I'm tired and not doing that well today otherwise I would have been more factual on this. Statistics are all very well but are not neccessrily revealing on the true nature of things. One of the less forgivable features of Tory thinking is getting statistics to become part of our everyday, and misusing them. This is not to say you are, but regardless of what you believe or think you know on this it's unbelievable that older people are being scapegoated. Of course a huge amount goes on pensioners. It's because they no longer generate their own incomes because they cannot do so or have yielded way for younger workers. I'm very tech on this. Lots of us for various reasons never got near the housing ladder and never could afford to catch up with NI. We are not the boomers of public mythology. Well, I never got the boom bit, neither did a lot of my peers.

I don't dispute the fact that many pensioners find life extremely tough. If I was running the country I would be looking to target the richer pensioners to reduce costs. However those struggling pensioners still deserve protection.

AngryAsWell
But there you go - - two very different opinions in space of a few minuets!

Daily Mirror ‏@DailyMirror 14m14 minutes ago
.@LucyMPowell: How I rallied Ed over exit poll, why Cameron beat us, how Labour should rebuild http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/lu ... re-5699489" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

AngryAsWell wrote:

rebeccariots2 wrote:

AngryAsWell wrote:Mary Creagh's page is up, I'm deeply unimpressed that she chose the Mail - of all papers - to give her declaration to
That's me not voting for her after all the shit they tossed at both Ed and Labour.

I'm less worried by that AAW. Understand your anger about it though. My take is that she's actually trying to say she's not going to tread fearfully around them - she's started by introducing herself to them in no uncertain terms. I don't know whether that's wise or not - but it's certainly different. I feel I need someone who's prepared to be a bit different - and far more upfront - to head up Labour.

Reserving opinion on this one. But can see why many, as you, probably won't like it.

Speaking for myself, I don't want insulting so that she can feel different. I don't see it as "fighting talk" I see it as capitulation.
But there you go - - two very different opinions in space of a few minuets!

Willow904 wrote:

AngryAsWell wrote:

rebeccariots2 wrote: I'm less worried by that AAW. Understand your anger about it though. My take is that she's actually trying to say she's not going to tread fearfully around them - she's started by introducing herself to them in no uncertain terms. I don't know whether that's wise or not - but it's certainly different. I feel I need someone who's prepared to be a bit different - and far more upfront - to head up Labour.

Reserving opinion on this one. But can see why many, as you, probably won't like it.

Speaking for myself, I don't want insulting so that she can feel different. I don't see it as "fighting talk" I see it as capitulation.
But there you go - - two very different opinions in space of a few minuets!

I thought Creagh was going to be a real potential but it turns out she's marmite. I watched her in a clip on youtube and thought she seemed good but my husband barely gave her 2 seconds before he said "no". Not very promising when we need someone with wider appeal!

rebeccariots2 wrote:

Daily Mirror ‏@DailyMirror 14m14 minutes ago
.@LucyMPowell: How I rallied Ed over exit poll, why Cameron beat us, how Labour should rebuild http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/lu ... re-5699489" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Interesting read.

Willow904 wrote:

rebeccariots2 wrote:

Daily Mirror ‏@DailyMirror 14m14 minutes ago
.@LucyMPowell: How I rallied Ed over exit poll, why Cameron beat us, how Labour should rebuild http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/lu ... re-5699489" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Interesting read.

I just did the poll at the bottom of that article - 'should Labour be less left wing'? 50% yes, 50% no! Not much help for Labour there. If they do move right with Umunna I suspect they'll just swap one set of voters for another.

rebeccariots2 wrote:

Willow904 wrote:

AngryAsWell wrote: Speaking for myself, I don't want insulting so that she can feel different. I don't see it as "fighting talk" I see it as capitulation.
But there you go - - two very different opinions in space of a few minuets!

I thought Creagh was going to be a real potential but it turns out she's marmite. I watched her in a clip on youtube and thought she seemed good but my husband barely gave her 2 seconds before he said "no". Not very promising when we need someone with wider appeal!

There's a poll under that Lucy Powell article I just posted a link to asking if Labour should be more left wing or not. Currently 50% say Yes and 50% say No. Marmite could be the order of the day!

rebeccariots2 wrote:

Daily Mirror ‏@DailyMirror 14m14 minutes ago
.@LucyMPowell: How I rallied Ed over exit poll, why Cameron beat us, how Labour should rebuild http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/lu ... re-5699489" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Interesting read.

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Thoughts on Marmite politicians.

We have one leadership candidate being rejected for the crime of having a posh name, one for not being great on YouTube and one for being a soulless & patronising wonk; well, the last is fair enough, but have we really reached the point where we judge the book by its cover even before we've read the introduction?

PorFavor wrote:... I think pensions are included in the benefits figures purely for the purpose of inflating said figures and stirring up ill-feeling against benefits claimants who are mostly not pensioners. It's also helped to foster generational tensions.

This British bill of rights could end the UK
Philippe Sands
The Tories’ plans would leave some people in the United Kingdom with more rights than others. This is clearly untenable
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... uld-end-uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

... Our commission engaged in a wide-ranging consultation, which made crystal-clear the overwhelming public support across the UK for continued adherence to the convention and the aims of the 1998 act. We also found no strong objection to the Strasbourg court, given the vital role it plays in guarding against abuses of the kind that plagued Europe in the 1930s and 1940s. To be clear, I don’t like some of its judgments, but they are a reason for persuading the court to change tack, not for destroying it. Our commission visited Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales and found literally no one who had any objection to the current arrangements. The position was not much different elsewhere.

A further issue is that the 1998 act is embedded in the devolution arrangements for Scotland and Wales, and the Good Friday agreement guarantees that Britain will incorporate the European convention into Northern Ireland’s law. Repealing the 1998 act would drive a coach and horses through these arrangements. The Tory appointees were unable to find a way to address this, short of recognising that people in different parts of the UK may have different human rights, depending on which side of a border they happened to live. Such an approach would be calamitous if you care about maintaining the union.

If Michael Gove is clever, he will delay matters until after an EU referendum
Even assuming a way can be found to address all these matters in 100 days – a tall order, given that eight of us couldn’t find a way in 700 days – what would a bill of rights contain? My four Tory friends on the commission couldn’t agree on that either.

That said, Martin Howe QC produced a draft bill which gives a frightening hint of what some may have in mind: he proposes that the rights of any individual would depend on whether they were a British citizen (full fundamental rights), an EU national (fewer rights) or a foreigner (even fewer rights). Such an approach is inconsistent with the very notion of fundamental human rights, in which every human being has basic minimum rights...

AngryAsWell wrote:

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Thoughts on Marmite politicians.

We have one leadership candidate being rejected for the crime of having a posh name, one for not being great on YouTube and one for being a soulless & patronising wonk; well, the last is fair enough, but have we really reached the point where we judge the book by its cover even before we've read the introduction?

I have said a few times we need to hear what they have to day not judge on past comments. But for me, for a Labour Prospective Leader to use the Mail to announce candidacy is just wrong. I will decide who to vote for after reading and hearing what they say but in my own personal little world, MC now has a lot of ground to make up. Ground she didn't need to have lost.

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Thoughts on Marmite politicians.

We have one leadership candidate being rejected for the crime of having a posh name, one for not being great on YouTube and one for being a soulless & patronising wonk; well, the last is fair enough, but have we really reached the point where we judge the book by its cover even before we've read the introduction?

JustMom wrote:Myself and my husband are both pensioners,we live on just the basic pension.
We also have 2 sons at home,one gets dole,the other is on a sanction so money is always tight for us......

JustMom wrote:The last time we had eye checks was about 18 months ago,because I'm housebound he came to visit me at home.
I had very basic glasses and so did my husband,it cost us £100 because it was a home visit.In future I shall be squinting because it was very hard scraping together that £100.