Thursday 3rd September 2015

[utopiandreams]

I can still get access to the Times Crossword Club without subscription,some years after it lapsed.I have no idea how.Maybe I shouldn't have posted this.

Used to do the Times and Guardian crosswords when I was young, A, but no longer. Maybe that's because once upon a time I could do them whereas now they'd take me far too long.Having said that there's a knack to them and you do get used to particular compilers. I did know all the rules governing format for instance. I don't know whether or not it still exists, never having seen the Sunday Times for so long, but do you remember Mephisto where every square was used? A bit like the first two rounds of Only Connect, meaning barring a few, virtually impossible in my book anyway. Maybe I'm just a bit thick.

Edit: tidy up looks like I must have inadvertently touched touchpad whilst looking at keypad.

[utopiandreams]

... Season of mists and mellow fruitfulness

They don't make seasons like they did when I were a lad, PorFavor.

[utopiandreams]

Government scheme to rehire former civil servants on zero-hours contracts
Cabinet Office pilot scheme revealed in leaked document draws heavy criticism from public sector unions and labelled ‘cheap, mean ploy’ by MP Paul Flynn
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -contracts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Things are going to get even worse, aren't they.

No continuity. What kind of re training to deal with updated / new systems will these people have? And what a poke in the eye with a burnt stick for those people who have already been made unemployed and those who are about to be.

This is the passport processing backlog writ large everywhere. And then they'll wonder why everything turns out more expensive than they said it would be.

There's a word for that, isn't there, rr2? Oh yeah, incompetence.

[howsillyofme1]

Wading in on Hugo's article on why non voters won't help I think it is pretty solid stuff, certainly the best I have seen to date.

Any rational analysis of likely voting patterns fairly rapidly cuts down the idea there is a vast untouched well of left wing support in this country. If anybody has any credible evidence to the contrary please feel free to post it.

I didn't think it was that great an analysis but even if it is correct I would say the following

If those people voted Tory because they really believe that social security is too generous or that the economic crisis was linked to spending too much - in effect agreeing with Osbornomics then I would not support any party who would pander to such twats!

If we want to educate people that misunderstood or were not aware of how macroeconomics works then we need to educate them

The point is we cannot pander to people who think voting for the most right wing, vicious and corrupt Government I have known is a good idea!

If that is the Government the British people want then we have to let them have it and reap the consequences. If the people want something different then they have to get up off their lazy, complacent arses and do something about it!

We may just have to accept that the Great British Public isn't that Great after all and the bulk of people either don't care, can't be bothered or are just downright unpleasant....

[utopiandreams]

@Willow904

I trust you've put the cats in their cages, Willow.

Edit: sorry addressed to the wrong person, TechinicalEphemera. Why does that remind me of being an OU tutor? I used to address by name as being more familial, not instructed so btw... just me.

[HindleA]

I don't do them as often,they have to my mind not as enjoyable as they once were.The Guardian,I haven't done since Araucaria passed away,there is no one currently that remotely reaches his level of wit and skill at setting.I regularly do the Spectator (not sure how I get that without subscription either) and Private Eye.I would say it isn't intelligence but a learning of the rules and as you say,familiarity that helps in solving.You have two avenues to pursue,the definition and the method of construction,and I find it inordinately easier than just a definition.

[citizenJA]

The man lost his family
one day his wife and two boys were alive the next day his wife and two boys are dead
I don't have words to express the sorrow enough
I'm sorry

[citizenJA]

Wading in on Hugo's article on why non voters won't help I think it is pretty solid stuff, certainly the best I have seen to date.

Any rational analysis of likely voting patterns fairly rapidly cuts down the idea there is a vast untouched well of left wing support in this country. If anybody has any credible evidence to the contrary please feel free to post it.

As I've posted here before, but seems to have been ignored:

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9460" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Finally, and most importantly, they wrote about turnout and suggested that people may have been overestimating their likelihood to vote, and that the people who were actually less likely to vote were increasingly skewed towards Labour... In their article Jon and Chris instead try modelling people’s likelihood to vote based on their demographics and characteristics of their seat, and that increases the Tory lead by 1.8%. They conclude that turnout, people saying they’ll vote when they won’t, is a major factor behind the error, thought they conclude that it’s one pollsters can probably address quite easily through a better turnout model.

Furthermore I think it's something of a straw man to suggest that Corbyn supporters think there's a huge untapped pool of leftwing votes. What there is is an increasingly large group of people who are disenchanted with the modern breed of profession politicians. At the moment they are either turning to smaller parties or turning away from politics altogether - and the point I made earlier that this was simply not addressed in the TUC research cannot be ignored.

Well said, Robert.
I'm grateful for your posts.

[utopiandreams]

@citizenJA

Now you're talking, гражданка.

[utopiandreams]

...I didn't watch much television when I was a kid.
I read books a lot.
I got the true story from the authors of fiction but had to grow up into understanding what the stories meant.
Learning is never over.
I keep walking too.

Nearly posted this this afternoon, but we didn't watch much either. Couldn't get in the house until our Mum was back from work, I don't remember 5.30 or 6 o'clock. Pretty certain we actually did have friends (of course we did) but weren't invited anywhere much, I guess it may have set a precedent. Didn't get comics either, Look and Learn.

[utopiandreams]

Wading in on Hugo's article on why non voters won't help I think it is pretty solid stuff, certainly the best I have seen to date.

Any rational analysis of likely voting patterns fairly rapidly cuts down the idea there is a vast untouched well of left wing support in this country. If anybody has any credible evidence to the contrary please feel free to post it.

I appreciate the sentiment, TE, but still hope for a largely untapped resource in our youth plus there are lots of disenfranchised voters, more than ever before. I know, #wishfulthinking.I'm pretty certain getting the vote to 16 year olds shall also help, provided they can be energised. That would require ousting the Tories first of course... and then perhaps I could dream of PR again.

[utopiandreams]

@ohsocynical

Won't that bloody blackbird shut up, ohso?

[ohsocynical]

Deadline looms for ministers' plans to cut spending by up to 40%
George Osborne to receive proposals on Friday, with health one of only four areas that is exempt
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... 0-per-cent" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

... Friday is also the deadline for local authorities to hand over proposals for how spending could be devolved from Whitehall to their region.

Ahead of the deadline, the Local Government Association said it believes at least £60 billion of central government spending should be devolved to local areas over the next five years.

Some of the deals already submitted and offers being finalised include Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire calling for a 10-year transport settlement and fully devolved housing investment, and Gloucestershire asking for control of all healthcare budgets, fully integrated health and social care and a single vision for health and wellbeing for the county.

The Liverpool city region has proposed retention of 100% of business rates income and the ability to franchise all local bus services, while Leicester and Leicestershire want devolution of funding and the ability to commission skills programmes locally.

Hampshire, South Hampshire and the Isle of Wight are collectively calling for further investment in world-class marine and aerospace clusters and university research centres.

I don't know what to make of this. It's going to make service provision very very different dependent on where you live - and whilst that may be a good thing for some services - for others it will surely undermine certain principles and values? Does Osborne want to retain control - or will he / Tories be happy to float things off and then absolve themselves from any responsibility? It looks as though the 'small state' could actually hand more 'power' to local authorities - but probably means higher local taxes - and more private companies rushing in to bid to provide services on the cheap.

We will become even more like America. Over there their States [our counties] have more power, but it causes a lot of variation? Can't think of a better word as I'm yawning my head off. Disjointed?

[utopiandreams]

The man lost his family
one day his wife and two boys were alive the next day his wife and two boys are dead
I don't have words to express the sorrow enough
I'm sorry

<tory>Just an economic migrant chasing our good life</tory>

Seriously this lot only have a majority of 12. How much longer can they govern a country of decent citizens. It cannot go on much longer surely. Please someone pull our only effective opposition into shape and bloody do it quickly. How much longer before you decide the leader? Then perhaps the reaching out may begin in earnest. Far too long in my book.

[ohsocynical]

@ohsocynical

Won't that bloody blackbird shut up, ohso?

No dawn chorus here. I haven't seen a blackbird in a couple of years or any song bird come to that. If I put food out after dark so it's there for them at first light it's usually wood pigeons fighting on the flat porch roof just under my window, magpies squawking and the lone crow who susses things out from the roof opposite and then noisily announces grub's up to all his mates.

[HindleA]

No problem with variation to suit particular areas as long the fundamentals are attended to,they will not be,beyond an ever lessening threshold as to what is deemed acceptable.Derbyshire is currently one of the best,a bit too quick for my liking for the (re)elected Labour administration,perhaps their hands were tied or eagerness to take the bribe?It is promising much,time will tell if it can deliver.

[AngryAsWell]

Yvette Cooper challenges David Cameron on failure to act on refugee crisis

http://www.yvetteforlabour.co.uk/letter ... id_cameron" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Tonibel]

Mine too until I just watched an episode on youtube.

Afternoon all
Apologies for the pedantry, but Watch with Mother was the generic catch-all term for the programme.
Monday's episode was called "Picture Book" and often featured a story about "Bizzy Lizzy" who always got her wishes wrong, as well as "Sausage" the puppet Dachshund.

Yes, that's it danesclose! Posh woman on the piano was Muffin the Mule if you'll pardon the expression.

Thanks. I was beginning to think I was the only one here old enough to remember Muffin. Annette Mills was his pianist I think.

[HindleA]

My great grandmother used to mention it.

[AngryAsWell]

Natalie Rowe ‏@RealNatalieRowe · 3m3 minutes ago
Got to say this before I reveal what I'm about to reveal re #Cameron, want NO ONE saying it is a personal matter, poss is and I don't care!

Aye-up she's off again......
???? what now ??

[TechnicalEphemera]

Wading in on Hugo's article on why non voters won't help I think it is pretty solid stuff, certainly the best I have seen to date.

Any rational analysis of likely voting patterns fairly rapidly cuts down the idea there is a vast untouched well of left wing support in this country. If anybody has any credible evidence to the contrary please feel free to post it.

I appreciate the sentiment, TE, but still hope for a largely untapped resource in our youth plus there are lots of disenfranchised voters, more than ever before. I know, #wishfulthinking.I'm pretty certain getting the vote to 16 year olds shall also help, provided they can be energised. That would require ousting the Tories first of course... and then perhaps I could dream of PR again.

Problem is Labour has to win under the existing system, similarly disenfranchised voters by definition can't vote. So there aren't any votes to be had there. The only way to close this gap is to attack the swing voters and specifically soft Tory and soft UKIP votes.

[ohsocynical]

David Cameron blows £300,000 of YOUR cash on phone mast for his favourite holiday resort
Cameron has decided to use taxpayers' money to fork out on a 100ft mast in a bid to improve the coverage in the area - replacing a 32ft pylon.

Outraged locals have slammed the "appalling" proposals, that will benefit just 74 homes

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/602641 ... ark-Crowdy

Good old Dave never disappoints...

[utopiandreams]

No problem with variation to suit particular areas as long the fundamentals are attended to,they will not be,beyond an ever lessening threshold as to what is deemed acceptable.Derbyshire is currently one of the best,a bit too quick for my liking for the (re)elected Labour administration,perhaps their hands were tied or eagerness to take the bribe?It is promising much,time will tell if it can deliver.

Sorry if I've lost the plot, A, not for the first time I hear you say, but if you're talking of supporting the ill, disabled or vulnerable then I concur. I've had quite some dealing with acquiring services for both my daughter and late wife over the years (almost entirely before the coalition). Even so agreement in principle was a long way from practice usually down to lack of personnel, including volunteers, or budget. Plans tended to be governed by tax or budgetary years before resources dried up, but yes regarding their intentions generally a good bunch. County councils are usually Labour I believe, which makes the constituencies hard to believe; definitely shy Tories in this area I'd say.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, given the extent of my waffle. I did drop for half an hour and really felt I was going to sleep tonight. Now I'm wide awake and not so sure. Drink of water, perhaps...

I was discussing such with a local shopkeeper a few days ago (nobody else in shop) it'll take a bottle of Scotch or some dope. He advised the dope when I intimated that the trouble with Scotch is the tendency to consume half a bottle, only intending a nightcap and then wonder why it ain't working. Being as they're an offy, perhaps there's under the counter supplies. Only joking - honest I am even though my words are true.

[SpinningHugo]

Wading in on Hugo's article on why non voters won't help I think it is pretty solid stuff, certainly the best I have seen to date.

Any rational analysis of likely voting patterns fairly rapidly cuts down the idea there is a vast untouched well of left wing support in this country. If anybody has any credible evidence to the contrary please feel free to post it.

As I've posted here before, but seems to have been ignored:

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9460" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Finally, and most importantly, they wrote about turnout and suggested that people may have been overestimating their likelihood to vote, and that the people who were actually less likely to vote were increasingly skewed towards Labour... In their article Jon and Chris instead try modelling people’s likelihood to vote based on their demographics and characteristics of their seat, and that increases the Tory lead by 1.8%. They conclude that turnout, people saying they’ll vote when they won’t, is a major factor behind the error, thought they conclude that it’s one pollsters can probably address quite easily through a better turnout model.

Furthermore I think it's something of a straw man to suggest that Corbyn supporters think there's a huge untapped pool of leftwing votes. What there is is an increasingly large group of people who are disenchanted with the modern breed of profession politicians. At the moment they are either turning to smaller parties or turning away from politics altogether - and the point I made earlier that this was simply not addressed in the TUC research cannot be ignored.

That link (and your earlier reply) is a complete red herring. it is nothing to do with whether non-voters are predominantly leftwing and so provide an untapped electoral resource. It is about why the polls were wrong.

And voters aren't increasingly turning towards minor parties: the combined votes of Labour and Tories were up significantly in 2015.

[SpinningHugo]

I don't accept that.

Why not?

Where do you think he goes wrong?

Britain is less diverse than the United States.

Is 'diversity' what put Labour in government in 1945 or 1997?

The USA is so diverse, their healthcare system requires citizens to purchased a private healthcare insurance product or face fines because it's a privilege getting born breathing. USA diversity provides a health care system based upon hope you don't get sick cause it'll take everything you own and that's with the little healthcare insurance card HealthyNOT sent after receiving several thousands of dollars for the right to admittance into the ER and use of the sidewalk. Premiums escalate. The co-pay is made up monthly. It's always more than what was paid earlier.

Tories are going to stand down before 2020.
In tears.

Labour and whoever else wanting to represent the UK responsibility better be paying attention.

He is talking about none of these things. he is talking about where non-voters are. In the UK, leftwing non-voters are overwhelmingly in Labour held seats.

[SpinningHugo]

As heavyweight a list of economists denouncing Corbynomics as the laughable letter of half hearted support was lightweight

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/23076458-50d2 ... z3kOxa3Ql4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


"We wish to register our opinion that the economic policies sketched by Jeremy Corbyn are likely to be highly damaging, and send this message to counter the impression that might be got from the previous letter of “41 economists” that Mr Corbyn’s policies command widespread support in the mainstream of the discipline."

Not a great letter, and god knows why they stuck Kitty Ussher on there.

They're right about the "people's QE", the tax gap and "corporate welfare" and (probably) nationalizing electricity. I'm no great enthusiast for renationalizing train companies (given the mess that's Network Rail) but that doesn't involve compensation or confiscation.

David Blanchflower makes a bit of a fool of himself BTL. It's very clear what "targets" means.

it is badly written, I agree.

[TechnicalEphemera]

Wading in on Hugo's article on why non voters won't help I think it is pretty solid stuff, certainly the best I have seen to date.

Any rational analysis of likely voting patterns fairly rapidly cuts down the idea there is a vast untouched well of left wing support in this country. If anybody has any credible evidence to the contrary please feel free to post it.

As I've posted here before, but seems to have been ignored:

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9460" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Finally, and most importantly, they wrote about turnout and suggested that people may have been overestimating their likelihood to vote, and that the people who were actually less likely to vote were increasingly skewed towards Labour... In their article Jon and Chris instead try modelling people’s likelihood to vote based on their demographics and characteristics of their seat, and that increases the Tory lead by 1.8%. They conclude that turnout, people saying they’ll vote when they won’t, is a major factor behind the error, thought they conclude that it’s one pollsters can probably address quite easily through a better turnout model.

Furthermore I think it's something of a straw man to suggest that Corbyn supporters think there's a huge untapped pool of leftwing votes. What there is is an increasingly large group of people who are disenchanted with the modern breed of profession politicians. At the moment they are either turning to smaller parties or turning away from politics altogether - and the point I made earlier that this was simply not addressed in the TUC research cannot be ignored.

While the UKPR article is interesting it doesn't really address the issue at hand more just why polling is wrong. I have heard many Corbyn advocates arguing that there is a vast untapped resource that want a new kind of politics, but even on that level it is highly questionable.

While I tend to agree that just copying the Tories ain't going to cut it, Labour still has to face the fact that the next election will only be won if a constituency can be chiseled out of the soft ToryKip vote. In order to do that you need a candidate that they will find it easy to vote for. Moving the party back to an early 1980s agenda just means they won't entertain it and no matter how pissed off they get with Dave they will stay put.

[SpinningHugo]

'Very good indeed' because you happen to agree with its conclusions? I see it as a rather one-sided study of a small part of a poll that was in any case conducted before the extent of the huge failure of UK pollsters to do their job was apparent. The article focuses only on why people didn't vote Labour, and completely failed to ask why non-voters hadn't found anyone worthy of voting for. The huge chunk of 'don't knows' among voters and non-voters is no coincidence. We just don't know how people would have answered if they were given the option 'they're all the same'. Despite Bush's protestations, this is just another attempt to dig up old info to attack Corbyn.

It's been pretty well established by the pollsters that the people who said they were going to vote Labour before the election were less likely to actually vote than people who said they were going to vote Tory, and this is so far the single biggest factor in why the polls were wrong. This is backed up by the TUC research, insofar as it can be trusted, which indicates that the groups that were more likely to vote Labour, 18-34s, lower socio-economic groups etc, were the same groups that other polling has suggested were less likely to vote Labour. https://www.tuc.org.uk/economic-issues/ ... etence-key" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In any case, I don't think anyone but the most blindly optimistic would claim that Labour can win an election solely based on those who didn't vote. It's more that Labour has to attract the people who broadly supported it but didn't vote, and it's surely easier to do this than win over Tory voters. And doing this is likely to win back those who considered voting Labour but ended up voting Green, SNP or LibDem.

If I didn't agree, why would I recommend it?

I thought he nailed the Obama line, and why the tactic that worked for him in 2008 won't get Labour anywhere.

And the point about the TUC poll is that it shows that the attitudes of voters and non-voters don't differ. This supports the analysis here

http://www.ncpolitics.uk/2015/08/does-h ... bour.html/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

which shows an *inverse* correlation between turnout and Labour leads.

As I have said many times about Corbyn, people are wrong to vote for him because what he substantively stands for is wrong. That he won't win is unprovable.

I meant in the sense that when economists support Corbyn they are 'lightweight' and 'laughable' but when you agree with them they are 'heavyweight'.

A broad historical correlation between turnout and Labour's result does not deal with the longstanding issue that the Tories are better at getting their supporters to vote.

Look at the relative lists.

One group is all recognisably economists, and has people at Russell Group universities.

The other is Danny Blanchflower and some odds and sods.

[utopiandreams]

... Problem is Labour has to win under the existing system, similarly disenfranchised voters by definition can't vote. So there aren't any votes to be had there. The only way to close this gap is to attack the swing voters and specifically soft Tory and soft UKIP votes.

That's where we disagree. I think it requires an unambiguous and full frontal assault. One thing Ed was right about Dave, stand up to the weak and acquiesce to the strong, perhaps putting it more generously assuming he has any moral fibre whatsoever, hard to believe I grant you. No more pussy footing about and show the fuckers who they really work for. US and that is us btw, not their US Republican friends and corporates.

[TechnicalEphemera]

... Problem is Labour has to win under the existing system, similarly disenfranchised voters by definition can't vote. So there aren't any votes to be had there. The only way to close this gap is to attack the swing voters and specifically soft Tory and soft UKIP votes.

That's where we disagree. I think it requires an unambiguous and full frontal assault. One thing Ed was right about stand up to the weak and acquiesce to the strong, perhaps putting it more generously assuming he has any moral fibre whatsoever, hard to believe I grant you). No more pussy footing about and show the fuckers who they really work for. Us and that is us btw, not their US Republican friends and corporates.

But a full frontal assault targeting what? It is satisfying to shout tossers at Cameron and his mates, but it has little value beyond therapy. People won't be moved to vote by moral outrage, you have to offer them a better future.

[HindleA]

Perhaps should have said my particular experience in a particular sphere and timing maybe a factor pre Tory administration countywide then Nation,when support was acquired and thankfully maintained ,despite more restrictions and introduction of charging which again,thankfully we were inured against due to previous arrangements/agreements ,although they tried(keep all paperwork,no matter how seemingly mundane) to make us liable,only a handful remained with our particular agreement at most, but the default was charge only rescinded on our proof which they should have known about.I am waffling sorry.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Sorry, more Corbyn-bashing from me.

Caught a couple of questions tonight. One specifically mentioned talk of deselecting Tristram Hunt. Corbyn did zilch to distance himself from it. Gave the pat answer about needing to be run by the members- one got the impression that this might involve members deselecting Tristram Hunt.

I keep hearing how he's not a 1981 Bennite. I am not convinced.

[HindleA]

I don't take it as "bashing" as such.He is a potential leader and seems to be the most likely winner.He needs to be so scrutinised,regardless of view.

[utopiandreams]

@TechnicalEphemera

[quote=""TechnicalEphemera"]... soft ToryKip vote...[/quote]

I hope even think there may be many decent Conservaive voters who may begin to waver under this continued onslaught of what good remains of this country. As for a Labour drift toward UKIP, tackle the exploitation and although protectionism perhaps isn't the way forward radically address youth employment. The old farts, excepting me and a few others I can think of, sorry still the first person but of course I meant us, can go and count their remaining days for all I'm concerned. wishfulthinking not a mile away from utopiandreams I grant.

Edit: corrected quote. If I an to them manually then bloody well get them right.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I don't take it as "bashing" as such.He is a potential leader and seems to be the most likely winner.He needs to be so scrutinised,regardless of view.

Cheers.

I think this idea he's unspun and different isn't going to be such a winner in the longer term.

Right there, he wrote a news story by not defending Hunt in some way.

And not just the news story- anyone on the centre/right of Labour will be entitled to be worried by that. Hunt was actually OK- fairly practical solutions to tidy up the Gove mess, and not spend too much money (which we need for school places).

Doubtless, he falls short because he didn't promise to put all schools back in LAs.

[citizenJA]

Why not?

Where do you think he goes wrong?

Britain is less diverse than the United States.

Is 'diversity' what put Labour in government in 1945 or 1997?

The USA is so diverse, their healthcare system requires citizens to purchased a private healthcare insurance product or face fines because it's a privilege getting born breathing. USA diversity provides a health care system based upon hope you don't get sick cause it'll take everything you own and that's with the little healthcare insurance card HealthyNOT sent after receiving several thousands of dollars for the right to admittance into the ER and use of the sidewalk. Premiums escalate. The co-pay is made up monthly. It's always more than what was paid earlier.

Tories are going to stand down before 2020.
In tears.

Labour and whoever else wanting to represent the UK responsibility better be paying attention.

He is talking about none of these things. he is talking about where non-voters are. In the UK, leftwing non-voters are overwhelmingly in Labour held seats.

Yes, he did.
The diversity quote comparing the US and the UK is right at the top.

[HindleA]

To stop my kindle and my mind blowing up I have unsuscribed from all Labour Party or associated e-mails.

[utopiandreams]

... But a full frontal assault targeting what? It is satisfying to shout tossers at Cameron and his mates, but it has little value beyond therapy. People won't be moved to vote by moral outrage, you have to offer them a better future.

Lies, TE, all the bloody lies. Unequivocally shout the truth and expose every horrid act this government performs on its citizens both old and young. How many more sections of society can they attack and still get away with it; something has to change. I appreciate your looking to recent past but I do not believe that is where we are. I also appreciate I've been saying similar for forty five or more years, particularly since globalisation, neoliberalism or whatever you wish to call it. Okay we nay have averted Nuclear Armageddon despite the willy waving that still goes on (perhaps I'm just beginning to get too old in that regard but shush) but we really are running out of time. Perhaps that final point is more a case of first person singular.

[citizenJA]

... Problem is Labour has to win under the existing system, similarly disenfranchised voters by definition can't vote. So there aren't any votes to be had there. The only way to close this gap is to attack the swing voters and specifically soft Tory and soft UKIP votes.

That's where we disagree. I think it requires an unambiguous and full frontal assault. One thing Ed was right about stand up to the weak and acquiesce to the strong, perhaps putting it more generously assuming he has any moral fibre whatsoever, hard to believe I grant you). No more pussy footing about and show the fuckers who they really work for. Us and that is us btw, not their US Republican friends and corporates.

But a full frontal assault targeting what? It is satisfying to shout tossers at Cameron and his mates, but it has little value beyond therapy. People won't be moved to vote by moral outrage, you have to offer them a better future.

People will be moved to vote by moral outrage by offering them a better future than the Tories are currently willing to let people have.

[utopiandreams]

... I am waffling sorry.

\\\Me too, A, and although feeling awake an tired and afraid you lost me

[citizenJA]

Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA

[HindleA]

Excuse musings but TubbyIsaacs has just reminded me of a point I always wanted to make but kept forgetting.It is not just Corbyn as leader which gives me great concerns,but the best way to assuage or enable concessions from the Government;a non compromising attitude/manner of operating may keep you pure but doesn't protect/help people that may be possible with a more nuanced and compromising one.

[ohsocynical]

I don't take it as "bashing" as such.He is a potential leader and seems to be the most likely winner.He needs to be so scrutinised,regardless of view.

Cheers.

I think this idea he's unspun and different isn't going to be such a winner in the longer term.

Right there, he wrote a news story by not defending Hunt in some way.

And not just the news story- anyone on the centre/right of Labour will be entitled to be worried by that. Hunt was actually OK- fairly practical solutions to tidy up the Gove mess, and not spend too much money (which we need for school places).

Doubtless, he falls short because he didn't promise to put all schools back in LAs.

Wasn't it because he was talking about coups?

[HindleA]

I don't know what I am talking about the majority of the time.A PM in waiting,no doubt,though I note I have lost my deputy position.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I don't take it as "bashing" as such.He is a potential leader and seems to be the most likely winner.He needs to be so scrutinised,regardless of view.

Cheers.

I think this idea he's unspun and different isn't going to be such a winner in the longer term.

Right there, he wrote a news story by not defending Hunt in some way.

And not just the news story- anyone on the centre/right of Labour will be entitled to be worried by that. Hunt was actually OK- fairly practical solutions to tidy up the Gove mess, and not spend too much money (which we need for school places).

Doubtless, he falls short because he didn't promise to put all schools back in LAs.

Wasn't it because he was talking about coups?

That wasn't mentioned in the question or where I saw the quote originally. Talking about coups is out of order though. If that was the issue, it should have been addressed in the answer.

[danesclose]

For those who followed the Phone Hacking trial, Ms Brooks' return to power in News UK seems to have p***ed off the former head of Security who was one of her co-defendants
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[HindleA]

All very James Bondish.My better half had a bespoke account for her direct payments which she used to employ people to help her.The bank had of course to close it,as her next of kin a cheque has been written payable to me,except it isn't mine but the Council's.I have to see a man called Gareth at the bank ,prove who I am by the use of a password and ID,he will open the safe give me the cheque and I will deposit it in my account,wait for it to clear and then write another cheque to the Council.They know about it,I thought it best to tell them lest any impropriety on my part was thought.Tell Us Once arrangement had obviously failed in their case,they didn't know she had passed away.An avalanche of forms to fill in ,a new claim for Council Tax Rebate or whatever it is called this week,Bereavement Payment/Allowance,finalisation of DLA details ;two pensions she had, to deal with;much thinking as to order to do this in given cross information and unknown information as yet,fortunate in some savings,continuation of at least some monies in CA for eight weeks,a balancing act.For another day,this is the day of pure celebration of her life.

[rebeccariots2]

Have been thinking of you today HindleA. You have put that beautifully - 'the day of pure celebration of her life'. I hope it was everything you hoped for.

[HindleA]

Have been thinking of you today HindleA. You have put that beautifully - 'the day of pure celebration of her life'. I hope it was everything you hoped for.

It is today- 4th RR 2 After midnight deliberately chosen.Every day I will endeavour to celebrate,today "officially"


Apologies,decades of cryptic crosswords has resulted in a hard to decipher writing style I can barely understand what I am writing myself.

Thanks

[LadyCentauria]

I don't know what I am talking about the majority of the time.A PM in waiting,no doubt,though I note I have lost my deputy position.

There was a re-shuffle and we mostly got either demoted or moved sideways. @refitman added some new ranks into the heirarchy, while he was at it.
I'm hoping you can get some good sleep tonight, @HindleA. xxx