Monday 21st September 2015

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 5:54 pm

yahyah wrote:Why do you think it is unlikely to be true Roger ?

US universities have had problems with hazing, weird or sexual initiation rituals for years.

Why would our own elite institutions have been any different, particularly when sexualised behaviour and forms of humiliation and 'fagging' (being forced to be a servant), were well known at public schools and likely to be continued at uni?

I just think it's pretty flimsy evidence - that MP could have been someone who Cameron sacked and simply made it up. Ashcroft hasn't actually seen the photo.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 5:58 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Mike Chillingworth
‏@mchillaz

Seriously though, if we're honest who among us hasn't got high, had sex with the decapitated head of an animal and sold the post office?

Blimey, was Vince Cable at it too ?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 6:04 pm

ohsocynical wrote:@YahYah

Paul Quigley
‏@quigleyp
BREAKING: UK Big 6 Energy Cartel Set To Hike Gas & Electricity Prices Hitting Elderly & Austerity-Hit Families In 'Heat Or Eat' Horror #FAIL
You said about a fixed term deal with your energy supplier the other day...Hope it's not too late.

Where's his story on it ?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 6:07 pm

Off topic.

Mr Riots has finally noticed that he's been fed meals that heavily feature courgettes for the past 8 days or so.

Yes - it's that time of year again - peak courgette.

Ratatouille tonight. But that's OK because it's our own sweet red peppers going into that alongside the courgettes. First time I've grown this type - and they do actually turn a beautiful red like the pictures promise. Progress!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 6:10 pm

chi onwurah ‏@ChiOnwurah 9m9 minutes ago
chi onwurah retweeted Mirror Politics
We said this was happening but were accused of politicizing the personal tragedies of people taking their own lives

Mirror PoliticsVerified account
‏@MirrorPolitics
Landmark ruling declares 'lovely quiet man' killed himself because he was found fit for work http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/la ... ar_twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 6:11 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Off topic.

Mr Riots has finally noticed that he's been fed meals that heavily feature courgettes for the past 8 days or so.

Yes - it's that time of year again - peak courgette.

Ratatouille tonight. But that's OK because it's our own sweet red peppers going into that alongside the courgettes. First time I've grown this type - and they do actually turn a beautiful red like the pictures promise. Progress!

Hope they taste delicious, am really surprised the lack of sunlight didn't affect the ripening for you.

We've got Persian herb stuffed long Italian type peppers for supper tonight, but the veg came from the Co-op.

Have you tried courgette cake ?
They do a delicious one at Lampeter's Town Hall Cafe, it has lemon curd between the layers and a cream cheese icing. Mr Riots wouldn't notice the courgette.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 6:13 pm

This looks a similar recipe
http://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/7497 ... lemon-cake" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 6:18 pm

yahyah wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Off topic.

Mr Riots has finally noticed that he's been fed meals that heavily feature courgettes for the past 8 days or so.

Yes - it's that time of year again - peak courgette.

Ratatouille tonight. But that's OK because it's our own sweet red peppers going into that alongside the courgettes. First time I've grown this type - and they do actually turn a beautiful red like the pictures promise. Progress!
Hope they taste delicious, am really surprised the lack of sunlight didn't affect the ripening for you.

We've got Persian herb stuffed long Italian type peppers for supper tonight, but the veg came from the Co-op.

Have you tried courgette cake ?
They do a delicious one at Lampeter's Town Hall Cafe, it has lemon curd between the layers and a cream cheese icing. Mr Riots wouldn't notice the courgette.

So am I. They are in the greenhouse though so maybe the temperature helps even when the sun don't shine. The proof will be in the eating though. Hope they taste as good as they look.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 6:20 pm

Kiran Stacey ‏@kiranstacey 1m1 minute ago
Govt adviser's call for an energy price cap - but a significantly weaker one than the regulator has suggested. Exc: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c401b4a2-5dee ... z3mOUUkTFm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Hurrrummph - clears throat loudly. Are they recommending some dangerous Marxist measure of price controls now - surely not?

Hope Ed Miliband tweets something. He deserves to be able to say 'I told you so'.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 6:27 pm

Deleted link because it didn't got to the right place.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 6:34 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
yahyah wrote:Why do you think it is unlikely to be true Roger ?

US universities have had problems with hazing, weird or sexual initiation rituals for years.

Why would our own elite institutions have been any different, particularly when sexualised behaviour and forms of humiliation and 'fagging' (being forced to be a servant), were well known at public schools and likely to be continued at uni?
I just think it's pretty flimsy evidence - that MP could have been someone who Cameron sacked and simply made it up. Ashcroft hasn't actually seen the photo.

Whether it is or isn't, is immaterial. It's the way it's been dealt with by the media. Such a glaring difference.

Somehow the things being slung around about Corbyn have paled into insignificance and aren't anywhere near as funny.

DFH doesn't like Corbyn supporters jeering about it...I Tweeted back we were only a few thousand. What about the rest of the world? They probably haven't even heard of Corbyn and it's been the top Tweet worldwide all day.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 6:35 pm

Emily Ashton ‏@elashton 4m4 minutes ago
Clegg says Lib Dems just "couldn't compete" with Tory warning of Ed Miliband dancing to Salmond's tune

They didn't have any kind of message to even start competing with the Tories. Ridiculous.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 6:37 pm

yahyah wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:@YahYah

Paul Quigley
‏@quigleyp
BREAKING: UK Big 6 Energy Cartel Set To Hike Gas & Electricity Prices Hitting Elderly & Austerity-Hit Families In 'Heat Or Eat' Horror #FAIL
You said about a fixed term deal with your energy supplier the other day...Hope it's not too late.
Where's his story on it ?

Don't know...I expect it'll appear shortly...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 6:40 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Adam Murray ‏@AdamMurray88 14 hrs14 hours ago

The best thing about #piggates is, even if it turns out to be a hoax, we've learned conservatives will literally defend fucking a dead pig.

We already knew that

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 6:48 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Off topic.

Mr Riots has finally noticed that he's been fed meals that heavily feature courgettes for the past 8 days or so.

Yes - it's that time of year again - peak courgette.

Ratatouille tonight. But that's OK because it's our own sweet red peppers going into that alongside the courgettes. First time I've grown this type - and they do actually turn a beautiful red like the pictures promise. Progress!

Have you tried any of these recipes?....http://www.health.com/health/gallery/0, ... _3,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 7:24 pm

Lovely loaf just out and home made lentil stew ready.
Bring your plates, please.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 7:33 pm

Petition calling for Liverpool Mayor to resign over £89,000 legal bill gets 1,500 signatures in three days
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liv ... n-10098868" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This doesn't look very good. The report here seems quite convoluted so I'm not sure I get what exactly has gone on - but the comments below are pretty angry about him profiting from / using taxpayers money. Does anyone know more - if so, can you explain it simply to me, please?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 7:40 pm

Idly wondering what Rowson is going to make of todays #piggate

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 7:42 pm

Bill Clinton - "I did not have sexual relations with that woman".
Yes, Bill, you did.

D.Cameron - possibly - "I did not penetrate that pig's head".
Someone said you did.
And took a photo.
Allegedly.

Despite all the did-he/didn't-he nonsense, and despite Ashcroft's (alleged? reasonable?) need for revenge, this actual incident doesn't matter.

What does matter, in my opinion, is that the very exclusive clubs like Bullingdon - populated entirely by people who have a lot of money - exist for their members to have "fun" by trashing restaurants ("lesser" people's livelihoods), engaging in all manner of appalling behaviour and invariably getting away with it (daddy's money greases most palms), and acting as though there was something wrong with anyone who doesn't belong.

There is no question that Buller men behave like this (even if some of the more lurid tales are exaggerated - pace, Tubby) and the overweening arrogance that comes from the belief that your blood is bluer, your papa richer, and your antics forgivable because the mess left behind is paid for, makes for a sense of entitlement to high rank or office which is totally undeserved. That's what sickens me most of all.

We have a press which has, for the past few months, dredged up decades-old history about one man - most of it edited or misrepresented to the point that even its original meaning is lost. The MSM - including broadsheets which should know better - has supplied us with lurid headlines designed to make us quake in fear that the Commies are coming, whilst failing utterly to report accurately or fairly.
When that doesn't work, we are treated to hundreds of articles on why that one man should have done this or didn't do that; reports of his many terrible failures to turn up to speak to the reptile throng when he was doing constituency work for the people he is paid to represent.

Ashcroft worked for Tories for a decade. He gave them more than £8 Million. He thought he could buy a government - and he nearly did.
This does not make him a good person.
But - whether this is his revenge or not - his description of Cameron as a liar, a man who breaks promises, who will tell any tale and blame any other person rather than tell the truth about why he is reneging on a deal, is information that should be in the public domain.
If we have to know how terrible Corbyn is, let's hear it for the Tory leader too.

We know he is regarded as a shit. We know a lot about how h has behaved in the past 5 years. Until now, nobody has dared to be the on who comes out and says it. Ashcroft does not have much to commend him, but he has every right to write about his experience.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 7:45 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Idly wondering what Rowson is going to make of todays #piggate

I am still encountering very very funny tweets ... and guffawing out loud. It's been a good day for the laughter count.

One I've just seen is a pic of Cameron on the phone with a caption 'Take the apple out of your mouth. I can't hear what you're saying.'

As Alistair Campbell tweeted

Alastair Campbell ‏@campbellclaret 11h11 hours ago
Remind me not to cross @lordashcroft - deadly stuff as it gets inside an enemy's head and affects the way people think of and look at you

Alastair Campbell ‏@campbellclaret 11h11 hours ago
And virtually every world leader will by this morning a) know about it and b) be laughing about it (him) - Mutti Merkel will frown deeply

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 7:46 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Emily Ashton ‏@elashton 4m4 minutes ago
Clegg says Lib Dems just "couldn't compete" with Tory warning of Ed Miliband dancing to Salmond's tune

They echoed it and gave it credibility.

Just like we would not put UKIP in charge of Europe, we are not going to put the SNP in charge of Britain – a country they want to rip apart.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 7:48 pm

Ed Miliband dancing to Salmond's tune.

As I recall, PF got this particular threat spot on right from the start.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 7:52 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Ed Miliband dancing to Salmond's tune.

As I recall, PF got this particular threat spot on right from the start.

Don't let her see this post tc! We don't want her to add expert political forecaster to her skills list - along with super pedant - we'll never hear the end of it.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 7:54 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:Ed Miliband dancing to Salmond's tune.

As I recall, PF got this particular threat spot on right from the start.
Don't let her see this post tc! We don't want her to add expert political forecaster to her skills list - along with super pedant - we'll never hear the end of it.

Good point. Or is that a full stop?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 7:59 pm

citizenJA wrote:Lovely loaf just out and home made lentil stew ready.
Bring your plates, please.

Sounds like several of us are eating well tonight.

I promise though - never to photograph my dinner and post it here for you to 'admire' - like some MPs I could mention.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 8:00 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Petition calling for Liverpool Mayor to resign over £89,000 legal bill gets 1,500 signatures in three days
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liv ... n-10098868" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This doesn't look very good. The report here seems quite convoluted so I'm not sure I get what exactly has gone on - but the comments below are pretty angry about him profiting from / using taxpayers money. Does anyone know more - if so, can you explain it simply to me, please?
Yes. Anderson is a scumbag who would dress his grandmother as a pig and sell her to David Cameron if it benefited Joe Anderson.

Oh dear. It is that bad then. Depressing stuff from a Labour person.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 8:01 pm

yahyah wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
yahyah wrote:Why do you think it is unlikely to be true Roger ?

US universities have had problems with hazing, weird or sexual initiation rituals for years.

Why would our own elite institutions have been any different, particularly when sexualised behaviour and forms of humiliation and 'fagging' (being forced to be a servant), were well known at public schools and likely to be continued at uni?
Well known when? Cameron would have left Eton in 1984.
Admittedly, the previous head of Eton, a serial punisher of boys and their buttocks had to leave in 1969. Cameron would have arrived in 1979.

But how likely that an institution imbued with the type of behaviour would suddenly become an enlightened haven ? How many masters, staff, and parents who sent their boys there after suffering such behaviour themselves, would still be carrying a torch for a firm hand with the boys ?

Fagging may have been officially phased out in the late 60's, much later in some other schools, but again, how easy is it to change the culture of a school when that has gone on for many, many years ?

At another public school, Fettes, where the Eton head also worked, Mark Peel wrote that "the sight of a petrified third former shaking with fear outside the prefects' room before being exposed to some lurid initiation ritual wasn't unknown".

Nick Fraser, in his book The Importance of Being Eton: Inside the World's Most Powerful School, apparently spilt the beans. The Sunday Times said that he "was subjected to a furtive sexual assault by the headmaster, Anthony Chenevix-Trench, whose proclivities in this area were not made public until after his death, and it damaged him, he says, 'more than I could ever have brought myself to express'".

Paul Foot, the investigative journalist also wrote about what he suffered from Chenevix-Trench when he was at Shrewsbury.

From The Observer ''Even by the standards of England's public schools, Anthony Chenevix-Trench, his housemaster at Shrewsbury, was a flagellomaniac. Foot recalled: 'He would offer his culprit an alternative: four strokes with the cane, which hurt; or six with the strap, with trousers down, which didn't. Sensible boys always chose the strap, despite the humiliation, and Trench, quite unable to control his glee, led the way to an upstairs room, which he locked, before hauling down the miscreant's trousers, lying him face down on a couch and lashing out with a belt.'

If all this behaviour had just disappeared, why the bullying of the Bullingdons.
Where did they learn their ways ?
'Lurid initiation rituals' as described above would have been known about, and some experience them. All likely to influence Bullingdon, Piers Gaveston club behaviour surely ?
There is plenty of evidence of rituals, punishments, bullying. I don't think a psychologist would have much trouble linking exposure to such regimes as having an effect on later behaviour

You've not produced any evidence that they experienced anything, so I think a psychologist might struggle.

A group of tightly-knit rich kids do what they want, and find "inspiration" for it where they want, and multiply it by being extremely drunk.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 8:01 pm

Wintour and Mason piece. Given the writers, not bad.

Cameron faces fresh questions over knowledge of Ashcroft tax status

http://gu.com/p/4ctd9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

'Ashcroft, the millionaire businessmen Tory donor and onetime key Cameron ally, has said he is not seeking to settle old scores, but also claimed in a long-awaited unofficial biography that Cameron took drugs at Oxford University and was involved in an initiation ceremony involving mock sex with a dead pig.'

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 8:36 pm

Michael Fallon pressured to order leak inquiry after Jeremy Corbyn 'mutiny' threat
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 11641.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

... Even Conservatives expressed unease, but, as reported in The Independent, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) effectively ruled out attempting to take action against the general on the grounds that it would be almost impossible for any leak inquiry to identify him.

This has now drawn a furious response from the Labour MP and Defence Select Committee member Madeleine Moon, who called on the MoD and Mr Fallon to take action.

She said: “This is deeply worrying. I will be writing to Mr Fallon to express my grave concerns that the MoD is not going to investigate such a threatening statement made by a senior member of the Armed Forces to a journalist.

“Can you imagine how this is reverberating around the world? In many countries it will look as if the British military is threatening a coup, and the MoD doesn’t think it should be investigating. It is totally unacceptable.

“I shall also be raising the matter at the next Defence Select Committee meeting.”

Mr Fallon issued a two-sentence statement in which he said: “The Chief of the Defence Staff and I agree that these comments, if true, are completely unacceptable. We are absolutely clear that senior members of the military must of course always remain politically neutral.”...

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 8:38 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Wintour and Mason piece. Given the writers, not bad.

Cameron faces fresh questions over knowledge of Ashcroft tax status

http://gu.com/p/4ctd9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

'Ashcroft, the millionaire businessmen Tory donor and onetime key Cameron ally, has said he is not seeking to settle old scores, but also claimed in a long-awaited unofficial biography that Cameron took drugs at Oxford University and was involved in an initiation ceremony involving mock sex with a dead pig.'
Ah, so he didn't inhale?

Nor did the pig....

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 8:41 pm

Hedge funder buys rights to drug used by AIDS patients and raises price from $13.50 to $750 per pill
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 11690.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Disgusting. The attitude that is shown by this man and his company's behaviour and communications is loathsome.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 8:43 pm

: pig.jpg (43.79 KiB) Viewed 9520 times

As I commented earlier, I doubt there'll be anything Tories wives don't know about.

No wonder Dave doesn't do well with female politicians...

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 8:46 pm

The Hairy Hobbit ‏@bilbobaggins2k 1 hr1 hour ago
@abcdefgrace_ @jjarichardson

The other half are racing at Ascot next season.

To go with the quote from the Daily Mirror....

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 8:53 pm

The rise of Jeremy Corbyn shows political language is being drained of all meaning
We need an urgent review of the terms we use to describe politics
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 11659.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Apart from a couple of hyperbolic doomy statements (Labour in dreadful crisis etc) this is a good and timely piece. He's pointing out that the use of words such as 'extreme', 'moderniser', centrist etc etc have been rendered completely meaningless by the way they are being used.

... While the assumption that Osborne is a centrist takes hold misleadingly, Corbyn is widely labelled an “extremist”. Corbyn may be misguided, naive and untested by the impossible demands of leadership, but are his policies more “extreme” to the left than those of the “centrist” Osborne on the right?

Corbyn’s willingness to appear on platforms with those linked to terrorist organisations fuel his image as an extremist. Yet the principle of talking to terrorists is mainstream. The former head of Tony Blair’s office, Jonathan Powell, wrote an illuminating book on the theme, Talking to Terrorists: How to End Armed Conflict. Imagine the outrage if Corbyn published a book with that title. I am not comparing Powell’s heroic, tireless negotiations that helped to bring about the still fragile political settlement in Northern Ireland with Corbyn’s conduct from the relatively undemanding safety of the backbenches. But when Corbyn argues that it is necessary sometimes to talk to terrorists all hell breaks loose because we are being conditioned to view him solely and simplistically as “extreme”...

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 8:59 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
yahyah wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote: Well known when? Cameron would have left Eton in 1984.
Admittedly, the previous head of Eton, a serial punisher of boys and their buttocks had to leave in 1969. Cameron would have arrived in 1979.

But how likely that an institution imbued with the type of behaviour would suddenly become an enlightened haven ? How many masters, staff, and parents who sent their boys there after suffering such behaviour themselves, would still be carrying a torch for a firm hand with the boys ?

Fagging may have been officially phased out in the late 60's, much later in some other schools, but again, how easy is it to change the culture of a school when that has gone on for many, many years ?

At another public school, Fettes, where the Eton head also worked, Mark Peel wrote that "the sight of a petrified third former shaking with fear outside the prefects' room before being exposed to some lurid initiation ritual wasn't unknown".

Nick Fraser, in his book The Importance of Being Eton: Inside the World's Most Powerful School, apparently spilt the beans. The Sunday Times said that he "was subjected to a furtive sexual assault by the headmaster, Anthony Chenevix-Trench, whose proclivities in this area were not made public until after his death, and it damaged him, he says, 'more than I could ever have brought myself to express'".

Paul Foot, the investigative journalist also wrote about what he suffered from Chenevix-Trench when he was at Shrewsbury.

From The Observer ''Even by the standards of England's public schools, Anthony Chenevix-Trench, his housemaster at Shrewsbury, was a flagellomaniac. Foot recalled: 'He would offer his culprit an alternative: four strokes with the cane, which hurt; or six with the strap, with trousers down, which didn't. Sensible boys always chose the strap, despite the humiliation, and Trench, quite unable to control his glee, led the way to an upstairs room, which he locked, before hauling down the miscreant's trousers, lying him face down on a couch and lashing out with a belt.'

If all this behaviour had just disappeared, why the bullying of the Bullingdons.
Where did they learn their ways ?
'Lurid initiation rituals' as described above would have been known about, and some experience them. All likely to influence Bullingdon, Piers Gaveston club behaviour surely ?
There is plenty of evidence of rituals, punishments, bullying. I don't think a psychologist would have much trouble linking exposure to such regimes as having an effect on later behaviour
You've not produced any evidence that they experienced anything, so I think a psychologist might struggle.

A group of tightly-knit rich kids do what they want, and find "inspiration" for it where they want, and multiply it by being extremely drunk.

Well, this qualfied counsellor is definitely struggling. As we know from many cases of bullying and abuse, victims don't talk.

It is no more incumbent on the OPs to produce evidence that anyone "experienced anything" than it is on you to infer they didn't.

This is not simply "a group of tightly-knit rich kids" pratting about dong what they want while drunk. This is a group of seriously rich scions of the aristocracy and what are considered "good" families, being groomed for the expectation that they will be occupants of high office or captains of industry - on the basis of no more merit than I have, and based purely on who their parents are, where they go to school, which university they attend, and which drinking club they belong to assuming they keep quiet about how they are initiated.

This isn't about "inspiration" and getting pissed - it's about the sort of behaviour that you and I, Tubby, would get criminal records for.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 9:07 pm

Manchester Evening News has an article on the constituency of Heywood and Middleton calling for the Labour whip to be removed from Simon Danzcuk (his constituency, Rochdale, is next door) for his appalling behaviour towards his local council and his attitude to Corbyn.

Oh dear.

Heywood and Middleton's CLP voted to complain the Labour's NEC about Danzcuk's conduct.

This could be fun.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 9:16 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
The rise of Jeremy Corbyn shows political language is being drained of all meaning
We need an urgent review of the terms we use to describe politics
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 11659.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Apart from a couple of hyperbolic doomy statements (Labour in dreadful crisis etc) this is a good and timely piece. He's pointing out that the use of words such as 'extreme', 'moderniser', centrist etc etc have been rendered completely meaningless by the way they are being used.

... While the assumption that Osborne is a centrist takes hold misleadingly, Corbyn is widely labelled an “extremist”. Corbyn may be misguided, naive and untested by the impossible demands of leadership, but are his policies more “extreme” to the left than those of the “centrist” Osborne on the right?

Corbyn’s willingness to appear on platforms with those linked to terrorist organisations fuel his image as an extremist. Yet the principle of talking to terrorists is mainstream. The former head of Tony Blair’s office, Jonathan Powell, wrote an illuminating book on the theme, Talking to Terrorists: How to End Armed Conflict. Imagine the outrage if Corbyn published a book with that title. I am not comparing Powell’s heroic, tireless negotiations that helped to bring about the still fragile political settlement in Northern Ireland with Corbyn’s conduct from the relatively undemanding safety of the backbenches. But when Corbyn argues that it is necessary sometimes to talk to terrorists all hell breaks loose because we are being conditioned to view him solely and simplistically as “extreme”...

The bizarre, disconnected, insane messages coming out of current Tory government aren't in the same universe with anyone else in the world. The Osborne China Golden Embrace, billions of taxpayers money available for nuclear and unconventional fossil fuel extraction but renewable projects are forbidden, housebuilding is forbidden and paying people for the work they do optional. That's current Tory government. I'm insulted by media's depiction of reality. Corbyn is no problem at all. He's a human being doing a good job. Tory government is scary.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 9:23 pm

ephemerid wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
yahyah wrote: Admittedly, the previous head of Eton, a serial punisher of boys and their buttocks had to leave in 1969. Cameron would have arrived in 1979.

But how likely that an institution imbued with the type of behaviour would suddenly become an enlightened haven ? How many masters, staff, and parents who sent their boys there after suffering such behaviour themselves, would still be carrying a torch for a firm hand with the boys ?

Fagging may have been officially phased out in the late 60's, much later in some other schools, but again, how easy is it to change the culture of a school when that has gone on for many, many years ?

At another public school, Fettes, where the Eton head also worked, Mark Peel wrote that "the sight of a petrified third former shaking with fear outside the prefects' room before being exposed to some lurid initiation ritual wasn't unknown".

Nick Fraser, in his book The Importance of Being Eton: Inside the World's Most Powerful School, apparently spilt the beans. The Sunday Times said that he "was subjected to a furtive sexual assault by the headmaster, Anthony Chenevix-Trench, whose proclivities in this area were not made public until after his death, and it damaged him, he says, 'more than I could ever have brought myself to express'".

Paul Foot, the investigative journalist also wrote about what he suffered from Chenevix-Trench when he was at Shrewsbury.

From The Observer ''Even by the standards of England's public schools, Anthony Chenevix-Trench, his housemaster at Shrewsbury, was a flagellomaniac. Foot recalled: 'He would offer his culprit an alternative: four strokes with the cane, which hurt; or six with the strap, with trousers down, which didn't. Sensible boys always chose the strap, despite the humiliation, and Trench, quite unable to control his glee, led the way to an upstairs room, which he locked, before hauling down the miscreant's trousers, lying him face down on a couch and lashing out with a belt.'

If all this behaviour had just disappeared, why the bullying of the Bullingdons.
Where did they learn their ways ?
'Lurid initiation rituals' as described above would have been known about, and some experience them. All likely to influence Bullingdon, Piers Gaveston club behaviour surely ?
There is plenty of evidence of rituals, punishments, bullying. I don't think a psychologist would have much trouble linking exposure to such regimes as having an effect on later behaviour
You've not produced any evidence that they experienced anything, so I think a psychologist might struggle.

A group of tightly-knit rich kids do what they want, and find "inspiration" for it where they want, and multiply it by being extremely drunk.
Well, this qualfied counsellor is definitely struggling. As we know from many cases of bullying and abuse, victims don't talk.

It is no more incumbent on the OPs to produce evidence that anyone "experienced anything" than it is on you to infer they didn't.

This is not simply "a group of tightly-knit rich kids" pratting about dong what they want while drunk. This is a group of seriously rich scions of the aristocracy and what are considered "good" families, being groomed for the expectation that they will be occupants of high office or captains of industry - on the basis of no more merit than I have, and based purely on who their parents are, where they go to school, which university they attend, and which drinking club they belong to assuming they keep quiet about how they are initiated.

This isn't about "inspiration" and getting pissed - it's about the sort of behaviour that you and I, Tubby, would get criminal records for.

Thank you, Ephemerid. Thank you very much.

Busy day, busy day...
Goodnight, everyone.
I love you dearly.
cJA

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 9:31 pm

Stephen Latham
‏@stephen_latham

Labour takes a three point poll lead over the Tories by 42% to 39% in marginals.

Great result for @jeremycorbyn

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index. ... rspolling/

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 9:47 pm

ephemerid wrote:Manchester Evening News has an article on the constituency of Heywood and Middleton calling for the Labour whip to be removed from Simon Danzcuk (his constituency, Rochdale, is next door) for his appalling behaviour towards his local council and his attitude to Corbyn.

Oh dear.

Heywood and Middleton's CLP voted to complain the Labour's NEC about Danzcuk's conduct.

This could be fun.

There's a petition to remove him on Change

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 9:50 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Stephen Latham
‏@stephen_latham

Labour takes a three point poll lead over the Tories by 42% to 39% in marginals.

Great result for @jeremycorbyn

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index. ... rspolling/

When I see a poll out of touch with all of the other polling I tend to raise an eyebrow.

However if Corbyn is connecting we will see a good set of local election results in May. It was a feature of Miliband's polling that the actual election results were underwhelming compared with polling. London being the clear exception.

Anecdotally he is certainly getting people talking, but I haven't heard anybody talking favourably about the Queen thing (but the non political seem to raise it in casual conversation with strangers). But maybe all (non porcine) press is good press.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 9:54 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
ephemerid wrote:Manchester Evening News has an article on the constituency of Heywood and Middleton calling for the Labour whip to be removed from Simon Danzcuk (his constituency, Rochdale, is next door) for his appalling behaviour towards his local council and his attitude to Corbyn.

Oh dear.

Heywood and Middleton's CLP voted to complain the Labour's NEC about Danzcuk's conduct.

This could be fun.

There's a petition to remove him on Change

Unless Danczuk's constituency decide they want rid of him nothing will happen. Corbyn chaired an organisation calling a Labour PM a war criminal, Danczuk is annoying but he hasn't gone that far.

He seems popular with his constituents in a seat where UKIP must have thought they had a shot.

Post by **refitman** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 10:04 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
ephemerid wrote:Manchester Evening News has an article on the constituency of Heywood and Middleton calling for the Labour whip to be removed from Simon Danzcuk (his constituency, Rochdale, is next door) for his appalling behaviour towards his local council and his attitude to Corbyn.

Oh dear.

Heywood and Middleton's CLP voted to complain the Labour's NEC about Danzcuk's conduct.

This could be fun.

There's a petition to remove him on Change

Unless Danczuk's constituency decide they want rid of him nothing will happen. Corbyn chaired an organisation calling a Labour PM a war criminal, Danczuk is annoying but he hasn't gone that far.

He seems popular with his constituents in a seat where UKIP must have thought they had a shot.

Danczuk spread libel about the leader of his party.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 10:10 pm

: fuss.jpg (96.3 KiB) Viewed 8839 times

So one paper is being brave...sort of...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 10:15 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
ephemerid wrote:Manchester Evening News has an article on the constituency of Heywood and Middleton calling for the Labour whip to be removed from Simon Danzcuk (his constituency, Rochdale, is next door) for his appalling behaviour towards his local council and his attitude to Corbyn.

Oh dear.

Heywood and Middleton's CLP voted to complain the Labour's NEC about Danzcuk's conduct.

This could be fun.

There's a petition to remove him on Change

This seems to be a further development on from the story on Danczuk and the ousted council leader that Zelo Street ran recently.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... r-10103437" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 10:18 pm

Kevin Maguire ‏@Kevin_Maguire 3m3 minutes ago
Daily Mail Day 2 on Cameron in Brief: He's shit

They really do want Boris, don't they.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 10:21 pm

: Daily Mail Day 2.jpg (61.71 KiB) Viewed 8836 times

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 10:25 pm

Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 1h1 hour ago
TheIainDuncanSmiths are back, this time with 'Pig Mouth Strikes Again'. Once heard, never forgotten
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/09 ... 1442852167" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 10:27 pm

The National
‏@ScotNational
Tomorrow's front page from @scotnational ... it's a special Pig Issue!

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Click through on that link and you won't believe your eyes ....

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 10:33 pm

Sky News ‏@SkyNews 55m55 minutes ago
THE INDEPENDENT FRONT PAGE: 'The great NHS exodus' #skypapers

Huge increase in number of doctors registering to work overseas as new contract looms
Over 1,600 requests in just 3 days last week - 20 times more than the old average

Let's not get too distracted by pigs and Cameron to ignore this growing scandal. This just blows out of the water all those 'promises' from Jeremy Hunt about there being 5,000 extra doctors on the way. At this rate they won't even be able to keep to the current numbers in the UK.