Wednesday 2nd December 2015

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 9:22 pm

ohsocynical wrote:chi onwurah ‏@ChiOnwurah 3 mins3 minutes ago

PM shook his head when I said out he'd not addressed cutting off Daesh's finances, read his speech & decide

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... nknown/22/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab):

"The Prime Minister spoke often of the choice between action and inaction,
but those of us who will be voting against the airstrikes also want to see action.
The Prime Minister said almost nothing about cutting off the financial supplies to
Daesh that buy the bombs and help to radicalise recruits.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that we need action on that matter?"

Oops, Dave...

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 9:25 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/laun ... ax-support" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Launch of a review into Council Tax Support.

An independent Review by a man who voted for it.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 9:29 pm

My party leader cannot be accused, like the Prime Minister, of misleading anyone. He has never, to my knowledge, agreed to protect the realm, the British way of life, or Western liberal democracies - and he won’t. We need to get rid of him before we face the electorate and have a leader fit and proper to offer themselves as our prime minister

(Lord) Jeff Rooker in the Lords debate.

Lots of this could have been avoided if Corbyn had been clear he didn't intend to be PM. But he deserves far better than this utter shit.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 9:30 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
rustinpeace wrote: I think the 'hurly-burly' is something longstanding in politics. However it is currently an acute problem for Labour, particularly when young people like Abby Tomlinson are being abused for daring to do something other than blindly parrot the Corbynite line. We've been quite lucky in the Conservatives in recent years, as UKIP has begun attracting the nuttier elements of the Right.

The 'anyone gets a say for £3' rule (arguably Labour's biggest mistake ever) has allowed the truly Loony Left to seize control of the party. Of course, it's a minority of people causing all of this trouble. However, as MPs currently being told to 'join the Tories' are finding out, it's enough to cause serious disruption.
Whether or not the £3-ers are Labour's biggest mistake ever is, as you say, arguable. And I'd dispute that the "Loony Left" has taken control. But I agree that they have made a cut-price appearance (along, though, with a lot of non "Loons").

I'm hoping it will all settle down. For choice, though, I'd have Ed Miliband back in a heartbeat. The only Labour leader since John Smith for whom I've had true affection.

He would have made a great PM and I look at his input today and compare it with some of the other Labour contributors - measured and intelligent. Also supportive of an embattled leadership

Speaks volumes for the man

I do have to say, though, despite sounding like a broken record that the same people undermining Corbyn and complaining about the 'hard left' were also the same people who undermined Miliband for the bulk of his time as leader and he was from a softer left persuasion than Corbyn

The people who want to remove Corbyn do not want to replace him with a Miliband...they want someone further to the right and I cannot accept that

Yes - and I can't accept that either. I wasn't suggesting that the anti Jeremy Corbyn bods were pro-Ed Miliband.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 9:31 pm

Tories want a silenced and disenfranchised 'other'.
Tory party values have nothing else to offer society.
That's a choice freely made.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 9:32 pm

PorFavor wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
PorFavor wrote: Whether or not the £3-ers are Labour's biggest mistake ever is, as you say, arguable. And I'd dispute that the "Loony Left" has taken control. But I agree that they have made a cut-price appearance (along, though, with a lot of non "Loons").

I'm hoping it will all settle down. For choice, though, I'd have Ed Miliband back in a heartbeat. The only Labour leader since John Smith for whom I've had true affection.

He would have made a great PM and I look at his input today and compare it with some of the other Labour contributors - measured and intelligent. Also supportive of an embattled leadership

Speaks volumes for the man

I do have to say, though, despite sounding like a broken record that the same people undermining Corbyn and complaining about the 'hard left' were also the same people who undermined Miliband for the bulk of his time as leader and he was from a softer left persuasion than Corbyn

The people who want to remove Corbyn do not want to replace him with a Miliband...they want someone further to the right and I cannot accept that

Yes - and I can't accept that either. I wasn't suggesting that the anti Jeremy Corbyn bods were pro-Ed Miliband.

Sorry, I knew you didn't mean that...I just like to keep repeating myself on this point because there seems to be a misapprehension (not on here though with our educated membership) that replacing Corbyn and replacing him with someone of the soft left would appease the ultras in the party and the media

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 9:35 pm

Wow.

Norman Lamb ✔ @normanlamb
With a heavy heart and total respect for colleagues who reach a different view, I will vote against Government tonight.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 9:36 pm

http://www.publicsectorexecutive.com/Pu ... sal-credit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Government considers adding council tax support to Universal Credit

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 9:37 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
He would have made a great PM and I look at his input today and compare it with some of the other Labour contributors - measured and intelligent. Also supportive of an embattled leadership

Speaks volumes for the man

I do have to say, though, despite sounding like a broken record that the same people undermining Corbyn and complaining about the 'hard left' were also the same people who undermined Miliband for the bulk of his time as leader and he was from a softer left persuasion than Corbyn

The people who want to remove Corbyn do not want to replace him with a Miliband...they want someone further to the right and I cannot accept that

Yes - and I can't accept that either. I wasn't suggesting that the anti Jeremy Corbyn bods were pro-Ed Miliband.

Sorry, I knew you didn't mean that...I just like to keep repeating myself on this point because there seems to be a misapprehension (not on here though with our educated membership) that replacing Corbyn and replacing him with someone of the soft left would appease the ultras in the party and the media

Ha! And although fine words butter no parsnips (?!) flattery will get you everywhere . . .

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 9:39 pm

Rooker's words an utter disgrace,has he ever put his life on the line #twunt.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 9:40 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
HindleA wrote:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/san ... 9?261xajor

Mass Shooting Reported At Social Services Center In San Bernardino
That is appalling.....when is that great country, which it is despite all its faults, going to wean itself away from guns?

Incredible to think it used to be far, far worse. I think that, as much as the constitutional stuff, makes it hard to get gun control. Lots of people assume causation, and it's hard to disprove that.

rustinpeace · Post by **rustinpeace** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 9:46 pm

PorFavor wrote:Whether or not the £3-ers are Labour's biggest mistake ever is, as you say, arguable. And I'd dispute that the "Loony Left" has taken control. But I agree that they have made a cut-price appearance (along, though, with a lot of non "Loons").

I'm hoping it will all settle down. For choice, though, I'd have Ed Miliband back in a heartbeat. The only Labour leader since John Smith for whom I've had true affection.

I think Corbyn hopes it'll settle down as well. It won't. His more vocal supporters aren't willing to compromise.

For what it's worth, I suspect that a LOT of Labour members would take Ed Miliband back in a heartbeat after this. As the Syria debate goes on, I find myself increasingly impressed with Benn. Now there are a few words I never thought I'd say.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 9:46 pm

Well, Hilary Benn is a great hit with the Conservatives.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 9:50 pm

HindleA wrote:

“I realised the problem was not me, but society. A society which denied my access to it.”

Baroness Campbell

At uni DSA helped me indirectly, it was provided to students with dyslexia, I helped them, they paid me. The benefit was mutual and it was fun seeing them blossom and achieve. As fate had it one of my own was dyspraxic, I wouldn't have known why he didn't see basic things like kerbs or got everything inside out and upside down without these people. The stories of their lack of access amazed me because they were all talented people and full of character. I never realised how deep the access thing ran till, some years later in a special school, I worked with a young man with cerebral palsy. His parents and his PA both knew he was bright but had little evidence of it as he was largely non verbal. Nobody could be persuaded to do more for him, it was either deemed too late or too expensive. I was there looking at how digital technoogy could be used in a specially schools setting, believe me you've not seen anything so depressing, lines of ancient BBC computers, donated by some ****wit, who thought that was a fitting provision, they only ran a version of patience. The irony!?! We took in laptops with photoshop and digital cameras and got a group together to see what they could do. The lad with CP caught on fast and with a few accomodations was able to use the kit. The first thing he produced was a shot of his hands, plastic wrapped. That's me, he said. The cuts and the mean nature of this government infuriate and appall me, because it means people going backwards. All the TV shows of a azing special schools dont fool me they don't anywhere meet demand, and once school is over for lots now it is back to parents because theres no ILF either. The whole knock on effect is awful. My young friend, because he became that for a few years had the brain to get to college, but access blocked all the way.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 9:50 pm

Excellent. Andrew Tyrie (against) disdained any reply to John Woodcock before him.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 9:55 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Excellent. Andrew Tyrie (against) disdained any reply to John Woodcock before him.

He's most decidedly a curate's egg, is Andrew Tyrie.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 9:58 pm

Evening all.

Just back from a few productive hours of meetings at our clearly terrible council run school...

Have I missed much?

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 10:00 pm

PorFavor wrote:Well, Hilary Benn is a great hit with the Conservatives.

Well he will be because he came out with the same stuff all previous 'for' speakers have said

Daesh are bad
We have to do something
France asked us

and then backed up by a load of hopeful thinking and trust in the word of The Liar

I come back to a point I made a couple of days ago. There are two justifications for attacking them in Syria and the airstrikes have to have a place in achieving said objective

Make it less likely there is a Daesh attack on UK interests

I find this highly unlikely...in fact it is pretty certain that the risk is that it makes it more likely than less. The likelihood is that any attacks will not be planned in Syria but by radicalised locals. In this Daesh are like Al-Qaeda - they sponsor and help train but the planning is carried out independently

No place for air strikes in reducing this threat

Lead to Military Victory over Daesh

This can be anything from full defeat to rendering irrelevant. I cannot see how this will happen in Syria as it is now...far too many players and far too few active ground troops committed to beating them. I think it is the crux of the argument today...and by far the weakest point in Cameron's shite sell - the ground troops in Syria are mainly fighting the Assad Government apart from the Kurds who are fighting Daesh but are being killed by our 'allies'.....I have seen no real indication that the rebel forces in Syria are that interested in the militants...Assad is the main focus

Again air strikes play not part in the achieving of this objective unless there is a massive ground operation at the same time

As has bee rightly pointed out by a few speakers today the main focus point at the moment should be the Turkish and Saudi Governments and forcing them to close off any supply routes to Daesh, and in the Turkish case to stop killing our only foot soldiers in the area and also to stop provoking the Russians

So, Benn made a rhetorically okay speech but his arguments were as flawed as all the others made in favour.....

In the end we are going to war because we were asked to and they are bad people....seems that is really it

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 10:01 pm

Jeremy Corbyn (Labour party leader):

"No, I will not give way; I will carry on with my speech. To oppose another war and intervention is not pacifism; it is hard-headed common sense. That is what we should be thinking about today in the House. To resist ISIL’s determination to draw the western powers back into the heart of the middle east is not to turn our backs on allies; it is to refuse to play into the hands of ISIL as I suspect some of its members want us to. Is it wrong for us here in Westminster to see a problem, pass a motion, and drop bombs, pretending we are doing something to solve it? That is what we did in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya. Has terrorism increased or decreased as a result of all that? The Prime Minister said he was looking to build a consensus around the military action he wants to take. I do not believe he has achieved anything of the kind. He has failed, in my view, to make the case for another bombing campaign."

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... nknown/22/

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 10:02 pm

citizenJA wrote:Tories want a silenced and disenfranchised 'other'.
Tory party values have nothing else to offer society.
That's a choice freely made.

Isn't that called totalitarianism.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 10:03 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Evening all.

Just back from a few productive hours of meetings at our clearly terrible council run school...

You made me think there of Patrick McGloughlin. He got into a tizzy about British Rail being an awful state run thing. Strangely, when a constituent asked him what he was doing about the electrification shambles, said he'd called in Chris Green and Don Heath, who'd been in charge of the successful inter city electrification schemes. At awful state run British Rail.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 10:05 pm

@seeingclearly

Pure ideology,we are reaping the effects of reducing investment-for that is what it is-in the very areas that both reap savings and improve lives.Yet another example to add to the many.Hard to believe,no thinking person cannot grasp this basic,have an iota of historical knowledge of "why"in the first place with the utter pretence that Society has changed to the extent that it is no longer needed,the reverse of course,a consensual (now blasted) change of attitude enabled progressive moves,it didn't spontaneously arise but hard fought for.The words remain,the action/inaction are incongruous to them.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 10:06 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Evening all.

Just back from a few productive hours of meetings at our clearly terrible council run school...

Have I missed much?

No, not at all. There's some long meeting about something or another and, by the looks of things, all the attendees have decided, simultaneously, to get up and go to the toilets.That's about it, really.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 10:06 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Evening all.

Just back from a few productive hours of meetings at our clearly terrible council run school...

Have I missed much?

Nah.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 10:13 pm

Hammond is still speaking. He says the question is this: Do we wait for Isis to attack us? Or do we take the fight to them?

What kind of a country would we be if we were unmoved by the rape and murder that Isis imposes on people?

And what kind of country would we be if we ignored pleas for help from our nearest neighbours?

Something must be done (Part 239)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 10:16 pm

The amendment's been lost.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 10:19 pm

seeingclearly wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Tories want a silenced and disenfranchised 'other'.
Tory party values have nothing else to offer society.
That's a choice freely made.

Isn't that called totalitarianism.

That's one of 'um, yep.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 10:29 pm

Know nothing beyond hearing a guy from this organisation on the Radio,is it independent/reliable?
(a repeat of a previous link)

http://airwars.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Monitoring international airstrikes against so-called Islamic State (Daesh) and others in Iraq and Syria. Archiving official reports of the war. Verifying claims of civilian casualties. Promoting accountability of international forces.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 10:33 pm

397 for 223 against.

57 Labour for.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 10:34 pm

Government wins vote on airstrikes by majority of 174

Government wins vote on airstrikes by majority of 174. Some 397 MPs were in favour, and 223 against.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 10:36 pm

HindleA wrote:@seeingclearly

Pure ideology,we are reaping the effects of reducing investment-for that is what it is-in the very areas that both reap savings and improve lives.Yet another example to add to the many.Hard to believe,no thinking person cannot grasp this basic,have an iota of historical knowledge of "why"in the first place with the utter pretence that Society has changed to the extent that it is no longer needed,the reverse of course,a consensual (now blasted) change of attitude enabled progressive moves,it didn't spontaneously arise but hard fought for.The words remain,the action/inaction are incongruous to them.

I remember Cameron talking in 2012 about the legacy of the Paralympics, the great windbag that he is.
Hard fought for indeed, I watched a lot of it and consultations for the DDA and implementations that never really materialised. The people who fought. No words to express their fight. And see the real anger now.

I don't at all understand the lack of empathy that seems to drive this kind of wrongness. The failure to understand that a life is to live not just to endure.

It never did change. My recent first attempts at independence, with secondhand but new to me electric wheels, die stillborn at every curb, I am more invisible than a six year old every time I leave an unprotected curb, and immobilised and at risk every time I try to remount a badly maintained one. My eyes being opened. There are still lightyears to go it would seem.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 10:38 pm

Or possibly 67 Labour for. I may have misheard.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 10:41 pm

Think it was as you said ,10 abstensions

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 10:48 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:A mild epiphany - Benn hasn't given up aspirations of leadership, this is his pitch for it.

It takes more than a good speech - content was still as poorly considered as ones that were less well presented

He stands no chance 2/3 MP voted against, he voted for and the membership is not going to vote for a leader to voted with The Liar and was applauded by the Tories

I can see that from where I am sitting - do people like him truly believe that they can win the leadership in the next few years....really?

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 10:50 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:A mild epiphany - Benn hasn't given up aspirations of leadership, this is his pitch for it.

Wouldn't he have to get past Watson first? Now that would be unseemly.

And probably be the cue for many to make an exit.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 10:53 pm

Point of order about Benn and other calling Isis fascists...

One of the characteristics of fascism is its ultra-nationalism...and one thing we do know about Isis, and yes, they're a bunch of evil murdering nutters...is that they are anti-nationalist. That stuff about not recognising borders? Well, that...

Not that it really matters mind, I'm just being a pedant...

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 10:53 pm

It was only ever winnable if there was a major tory rebellion, which wasn't going to happen.
Which make our moderates position even more disgraceful.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 10:57 pm

https://www.ipso.co.uk/IPSO/rulings/IPS ... tml?id=253" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Complaint about Hartley-Brewer article on Tax Credits Ruling -"inaccurate, significantly misleading and correction required"-

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 11:04 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:A mild epiphany - Benn hasn't given up aspirations of leadership, this is his pitch for it.

Cheered on by the Tories. That's how to appeal to the membership.

Post by **refitman** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 11:07 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:After a disappointing day for the human race, goodnight

'Night Robert.

Maeght · Post by **Maeght** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 11:08 pm

Thanks to those who did vote against air strikes.

I watched a lot of the debate, had to force myself. I wanted to see who was there.
But I found most of the speeches mediocre. And I really am amazed that people were so thrilled by Hilary Benn's effort. Standards are obviously quite low.

And I am very fed up with comparisons to the Second World War. To call people who were opposed to air strikes "appeasers" was disgraceful.It may well be that Daesh is the greatest threat since Hitler and we will have to fight it - in alliance - as we did the last time but in different ways because it is a different fight.

However, the last time when we finally realised we would have to fight , we got on as fast as we could with re-arming and organising. We didn't just send a few planes and hope for the best.

Just don't even want to think about what is going to happen to the Labour Party.

Best I can do is channel Scarlett - " Tomorrow is another day".

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 11:08 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
My party leader cannot be accused, like the Prime Minister, of misleading anyone. He has never, to my knowledge, agreed to protect the realm, the British way of life, or Western liberal democracies - and he won’t. We need to get rid of him before we face the electorate and have a leader fit and proper to offer themselves as our prime minister
(Lord) Jeff Rooker in the Lords debate.

Lots of this could have been avoided if Corbyn had been clear he didn't intend to be PM. But he deserves far better than this utter shit.

Jeff Rooker was always the most awful imaginable , and stupid authoritarian , individual in UK politics .

Corby got there by accident, because the three others were hopeless, as it seemed at the time, and perhaps still does.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 11:08 pm

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RIP John Cole.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 11:09 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Excellent. Andrew Tyrie (against) disdained any reply to John Woodcock before him.

A real hero - here's Tory Andrew Tyries' last rebellion in March of this year:

Standardised Packaging of Tobacco Products Regulations 2015 — 11 Mar 2015

"Andrew Tyrie MP, Chichester voted against requiring cigarette and tobacco packaging to
be plain white or coloured Pantone 448C with only permitted text in a specified typeface,
to against restricting the size and shape of packets, and against setting a minimum of 20
cigarettes per packet."

http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/mp.php?mpn ... #divisions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bad to the bone, I tell you, why doesn't he join a democratic socialist political party, all that compassion
he's got. Read it all at the link posted below - Andrew Tyrie - a helpful architect of every disastrous
piece of Tory legislation ever foisted onto a confused, deliberately misinformed, electorate.

http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/mp.php?mpn ... #divisions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Iconic Tory disdain for truthfulness.

NHS Funding — Call on Ministers to Reflect Official Spending Statistics When Speaking About Health Spending — 12 Dec 2012

"Andrew Tyrie MP, Chichester voted against asking ministers to reflect the official treasury
spending statistics when making public statements on health spending. The majority of MPs
voted against asking ministers to reflect the official treasury spending statistics when making
public statements on health spending."

http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/division.p ... se=commons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

God damn.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 11:12 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:After a disappointing day for the human race, goodnight

Goodnight, RobertSnozers.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 11:13 pm

NonOxCol wrote:

RIP John Cole.

Yes, rebelling against a free vote - how does that work?

Presumably the Tories who voted against were rebels too, no? Probably not...

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 11:27 pm

I personally don't like Allegra Stratton but she just made a very good point. If it goes wrong Cameron will be shafted and Corbyn look prophetic.

Now, you have to ask yourselves, will it go wrong?

Of course it will imo. It will radicalise kids, it will kill innocents, and there will be a superpower showdown. I can almost guarentee in the next 12 months Russia will shoot down a Turkish/Allied plane. There are no ground forces that can achieve what the Allies need. Public opinion will turn against this war.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 11:43 pm

seeingclearly wrote:
HindleA wrote:@seeingclearly

Pure ideology,we are reaping the effects of reducing investment-for that is what it is-in the very areas that both reap savings and improve lives.Yet another example to add to the many.Hard to believe,no thinking person cannot grasp this basic,have an iota of historical knowledge of "why"in the first place with the utter pretence that Society has changed to the extent that it is no longer needed,the reverse of course,a consensual (now blasted) change of attitude enabled progressive moves,it didn't spontaneously arise but hard fought for.The words remain,the action/inaction are incongruous to them.
I remember Cameron talking in 2012 about the legacy of the Paralympics, the great windbag that he is.
Hard fought for indeed, I watched a lot of it and consultations for the DDA and implementations that never really materialised. The people who fought. No words to express their fight. And see the real anger now.

I don't at all understand the lack of empathy that seems to drive this kind of wrongness. The failure to understand that a life is to live not just to endure.

It never did change. My recent first attempts at independence, with secondhand but new to me electric wheels, die stillborn at every curb, I am more invisible than a six year old every time I leave an unprotected curb, and immobilised and at risk every time I try to remount a badly maintained one. My eyes being opened. There are still lightyears to go it would seem.

I don't drive, I walk and use public transportation. Vehicular traffic and lack of functional infrastructure built without a coherent plan, lax speed limit enforcement are my least favourite aspects of my neighbourhood. People in wheelchairs and mobility scooters aren't making journeys with me because pavement is most often used as parking spaces for motor vehicles. I've a devil of a time - the noise, vehicle emissions standards are less stringent, speed limits are ignored. I'm sorry. It doesn’t have to be this way.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 11:51 pm

And their off from Akrotiri.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 11:59 pm

Sir John Chilcot urged to get a head start on Syria inquiry

http://newsthump.com/2015/12/02/sir-joh ... a-inquiry/

Starting the Syrian war inquiry today will give us a chance of seeing it delivered on time, experts have said this morning.

The Right Honourable Sir John Chilcot, head of the inquiry into the Iraq war, has been pre-emptively appointed chair of the committee investigating intelligence failings leading up to the Syrian war, for when they are inevitably uncovered.