Friday 24th June 2016

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:53 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:
55DegreesNorth wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:Vis a vis: no confidence vote in Corbyn. What are the agitators in the PLP going to do if he wins?

If he doesn't, who will they replace him with that will simultaneously appeal to the liberal, socially democratic minded Scottish and Londoners, and the isolationist, xenophobic working classes of the North East?

I'm still not seeing anyone who fits the bill.
Steady on, Jonny, Newcastle, where I am sitting, voting remain.
I meant the voters who have left Labour for UKIP, not all from the NE.

Sweeping generalisations I know, but I honestly can't see anyone squaring the circle. It isn't possible anymore. Personally, I think the xenophobes who have gone to UKIP can go swivel. I don't want them back, and most certainly not on their racist terms.

Such people simply need to learn that immigration is not *really* why their life chances are crap.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:56 pm

Rebecca wrote:
danesclose wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Motion of No Confidence in Jeremy Corbyn issued. (BBC)
Margaret Hodge & Ann Coffey have tabled it apparently. Could be a vote on Tuesday
So,Tuesday I will leave the labour party.Because I have a lot of confidence in Jeremy Corbyn and not much in any of the others.

Yep me too. That's it. And I'll never vote again. If they sit back smugly thinking we'll come around in time, they've got a nasty shock coming to them.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:57 pm

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content ... bles-1.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Any one fancy giving their interpretation?

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 12:58 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:
55DegreesNorth wrote: Steady on, Jonny, Newcastle, where I am sitting, voting remain.
I meant the voters who have left Labour for UKIP, not all from the NE.

Sweeping generalisations I know, but I honestly can't see anyone squaring the circle. It isn't possible anymore. Personally, I think the xenophobes who have gone to UKIP can go swivel. I don't want them back, and most certainly not on their racist terms.
Such people simply need to learn that immigration is not *really* why their life chances are crap.

I think they're quite likely to find that out now. And quite quickly.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:03 pm

ScarletGas wrote:So today is my birthday and I have received the extremes of nasty shocks and pleasant surprises in the last few hours.

Congratulations to those who have "got their country back" but I have to say that today and for the immediate future it is a country I no longer like or recognise.

I despair at the possibility of Prime Minister Johnson and President Trump in a few months time.

On the debate regarding Jeremy Corbyn.

My own view is that he played this campaign pretty well and agreed with his decision not to share a platform with our late unlamented leader. Frankly how could you trust him not to follow his Bullingdon instincts and s..t on Corbyn from a great height after he had outlived his usefulness. Look at his treatment of erstwhile friends such as Clegg at the 2015 election and Gordon Brown after he rescued the Independence campaign.

In addition I think, whilst some in the media, tory party and the PLP are complaining of his performance, his honest (you could I suppose argue too honest) approach that the EU has its faults but on balance (7.5/10) its better to be in the tent than whinging from outside resonated with some who objected to Project Fear. I know that the reluctant inner approach chimed with a few waverers including me.

So to the future.

I have never been really sure that even JC thought he was Prime Minister material but wanted an opportunity to change the party back nearer to its roots away from the New Labour years. The problem all along has been the disconnect between the largely New Labour MPs and the grassroots. This issue has to be resolved before there is any thought of going forward. So reluctantly, because I do like Corbyn, it may be time for a leadership challenge in the hope that an attractive, credible candidate (others with more intimate knowledge of the party will have a better view of who that could be) who will more readily reflect the views of the membership (and erstwhile Labour voters) comes into the fray.

The one thing we must never forget midst the gloom of these days is that they are not popular and their biggest electoral asset in Cameron is no more. So now may be the time to take the fight to them.

It's certainly one birthday you won't forget. Have a good day.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:11 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Rebecca wrote:
danesclose wrote: Margaret Hodge & Ann Coffey have tabled it apparently. Could be a vote on Tuesday
So,Tuesday I will leave the labour party.Because I have a lot of confidence in Jeremy Corbyn and not much in any of the others.
Hey, the PLP can't actually depose him.

No but their utter, utter stupidity is the final straw. We need every decent politician there is finding out what's going to happen and trying to do what they can to avert disaster. We're reeling. The countries reeling and what are they doing? They're still fucking intent on getting rid of Corbyn.

I've had it with them.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:13 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Rebecca wrote: So,Tuesday I will leave the labour party.Because I have a lot of confidence in Jeremy Corbyn and not much in any of the others.
Hey, the PLP can't actually depose him.
No but their utter, utter stupidity is the final straw. We need every decent politician there is, finding out what's going to happen and trying to do what they can to avert disaster. We're reeling. The countries reeling and what are they doing? They're still fucking intent on getting rid of Corbyn.

I've had it with them.

I fully understand everyone's frustration, let's see what happens upto conference. Please people.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:14 pm

Willow904 wrote:
TR'sGhost wrote:
yahyah wrote:It wasn't as bad as this after the 2010 hung election was it ?
It wasn't as bad as this after Black Wednesday 1992 or the banking collapse in 2008.
Although it could have been worse in 2008. It was the rapidity and decisiveness of Gordon Brown's response that headed complete disaster off at the pass. The longer the government takes to decide what to do next, the worse it will be, regardless of the ultimate action taken imo. If it was me I'd already be making noises about the single market and free movement of people still possible to calm nerves in Northern Ireland and Scotland. Also, the deputy must step up now Cameron has effectively resigned. He could have stayed on and started Brexit negotiations, but this half still PM half not is the worst possible scenario. He has to go completely straight away and let the deputy take over. The markets like clarity and all they're getting is fudge.

You're assuming the deputy PM would want to take over right now.

I for one certainly wouldn't.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:18 pm

People's reasons for voting out are soul destroying. "It’s got to the point where there’s been flooding here over the last few days, and there’s no help, and then we’re sending millions to other countries." said one outer from Essex.

Guess she didn't bother to know about the EU's solidarity fund or the complete uselessness of the Tory govnt wrt applying for it.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:19 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote: Hey, the PLP can't actually depose him.
No but their utter, utter stupidity is the final straw. We need every decent politician there is, finding out what's going to happen and trying to do what they can to avert disaster. We're reeling. The countries reeling and what are they doing? They're still fucking intent on getting rid of Corbyn.

I've had it with them.
I fully understand everyone's frustration, let's see what happens upto conference. Please people.

Conference is 3 months away. Labour needs to be out there doing what it was set up to do - fighting for those unable to fight against the Camerons, the Goves' the Farages of this country, not seeing an opportunity to rid themselves of a leader they don't like in the hope that the King Across The Water (Miliband D) will return in an Arthurian fashion to save his people.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:20 pm

ephemerid wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote: http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/683042 ... ain-leaves
Fair enough from them.

Indeed.

I'm not surprised they want rid of us pronto now that the Great British Public have expressed a wish to leave. (Well, only just.......)

The leading EU people and heads of state always seemed to me to just tolerate Cameron and his antics. They were certainly less than impressed with his negotiations (which failed) and the lies afterwards about the rebate. Some of them even laughed at him.

The UK has often pleaded for - and got - "special" treatment, yet it's the first to moan and groan given any opportunity. I daresay there are quite a few EU leaders who won't be sorry to see the back of us, and I am expecting some of them to be difficult with us.
Considering how much co-operation we have been given, this must seem like a slap in the face to some EU people.

I am now wondering, if the French are pressing on quickly, what will happen to all those refugees and migrants holed up in France who want to come here? I realise there aren't all that many when compared to the millions displaced and all over Europe, but some of those Little Englanders down there on the coast might be in for a shock....

My bold.

I suspect the French will turn a blind eye and not bother with border control. And who can blame them.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:25 pm

I've completed that petition but ten minutes later still not have a confirmation email.
Any one else had that problem ?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:27 pm

@ Rebecca

Sorry to hear about your loss, and that your sister is going through things like that.
May you have some rest amidst all this turmoil xx

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:27 pm

TR'sGhost wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
TR'sGhost wrote: It wasn't as bad as this after Black Wednesday 1992 or the banking collapse in 2008.
Although it could have been worse in 2008. It was the rapidity and decisiveness of Gordon Brown's response that headed complete disaster off at the pass. The longer the government takes to decide what to do next, the worse it will be, regardless of the ultimate action taken imo. If it was me I'd already be making noises about the single market and free movement of people still possible to calm nerves in Northern Ireland and Scotland. Also, the deputy must step up now Cameron has effectively resigned. He could have stayed on and started Brexit negotiations, but this half still PM half not is the worst possible scenario. He has to go completely straight away and let the deputy take over. The markets like clarity and all they're getting is fudge.
You're assuming the deputy PM would want to take over right now.

I for one certainly wouldn't.

It just dawned on me.....do the Tories even have a deputy leader? God, what a shambles.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:27 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/housing-netw ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Housing needs will be pushed to one side in the confusion over Brexit
Dawn Foster

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:29 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:So the switch by Brexit to talking about immigration and how bad it it is turns out to be a massive con? I'm shocked...

Another message for one of my t-shirts.
''Don't say you weren't warned''. Or ''Admit it, you were conned''

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:30 pm

https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europ ... varoufaki?
Can somebody intelligent (and not panicking) give some comment on this - and particularly on the notions of a European Republic and a European network of rebel cities. Is it bold or mad or both?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:33 pm

PorFavor wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Indeed, quite a few voted "leave" never expecting them to actually win (and not just because of the "MI5 will rub our votes out" stuff)

Yes. Bloody MI5. Asleep on the job.

Maybe there was an MI5 conspiracy. But it was our votes that were erased

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:33 pm

Never has a nation relegated itself into obscurity with such needless, reckless abandon.
https://opendemocracy.net/uk/benjamin-r ... f-sabotage

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:39 pm

yahyah wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:So the switch by Brexit to talking about immigration and how bad it it is turns out to be a massive con? I'm shocked...

Another message for one of my t-shirts.
''Don't say you weren't warned''. Or ''Admit it, you were conned''

Five hours Bristol City Council had 40 million wiped out of its pension pot, workers like street cleaners, dinner ladies, bin men, but hey the country has sent a message to the establishment so it's worth it in the end..

Waiting for the thickos to start bleating 'no one warned us what would happen' and then blame the establishment again.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:40 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Rebecca wrote:
danesclose wrote: Margaret Hodge & Ann Coffey have tabled it apparently. Could be a vote on Tuesday
So,Tuesday I will leave the labour party.Because I have a lot of confidence in Jeremy Corbyn and not much in any of the others.
Yep me too. That's it. And I'll never vote again. If they sit back smugly thinking we'll come around in time, they've got a nasty shock coming to them.

What good will that do you? Never voting again?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:43 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:People's reasons for voting out are soul destroying. "It’s got to the point where there’s been flooding here over the last few days, and there’s no help, and then we’re sending millions to other countries." said one outer from Essex.

Guess she didn't bother to know about the EU's solidarity fund or the complete uselessness of the Tory govnt wrt applying for it.

The foreign aid is mostly to non-European countries isn't it?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:43 pm

danesclose wrote:For some reason Stanley Johnson is on TV now. I bet that every time he looks at Boris he wishes he'd committed the solitary sin of Onan instead.

Thanks, a laugh is much appreciated.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:44 pm

Farridge - "We won it without a shot being fired".

Tell that to Brendan Cox, Nige. And have a bit of fucking respect.

Anyway, was he expecting gunfights in Thanet if the vote didn't go his way? Is UKIP armed? Have Britain First got more than home-made guns?
High time these far right groups got a serious looking into IMHO.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:44 pm

Happy Birthday Scarlet Gas, and belated greetings to Welsh Ian.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:45 pm

citizenJA wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
Rebecca wrote: So,Tuesday I will leave the labour party.Because I have a lot of confidence in Jeremy Corbyn and not much in any of the others.
Yep me too. That's it. And I'll never vote again. If they sit back smugly thinking we'll come around in time, they've got a nasty shock coming to them.
What good will that do you? Never voting again?

Nope that's it. I'm too damn old to put up with stupidity. I can't change it, but I'll not enable it...

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:47 pm

The only vote of no confidence required has already happened.

Cameron is resigning as a result.

Corbyn had nothing to do with it. If I hadn't left the party already for similar reasons, ie. internecine squabbling by senor Labour people, I'd go now,

Bloody ridiculous.

I need to go and rad a book or something. I am so angry it can't be good for me or anyone in my company.

Thanks all. Laters.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:48 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:People's reasons for voting out are soul destroying. "It’s got to the point where there’s been flooding here over the last few days, and there’s no help, and then we’re sending millions to other countries." said one outer from Essex.

Guess she didn't bother to know about the EU's solidarity fund or the complete uselessness of the Tory govnt wrt applying for it.
The foreign aid is mostly to non-European countries isn't it?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8e82e01c-dbb6 ... z4CUyPYBiO

The EU can provide assistance from its “solidarity fund”, but a claim must be filed within 12 weeks of the first storm, meaning the deadline for the UK to claim for damage caused by Storm Desmond is Sunday.
Britain received £127m from the EU fund in 2007, after flooding hit many parts of England causing £3.5bn of damage.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:49 pm

danesclose wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:
ohsocynical wrote: No but their utter, utter stupidity is the final straw. We need every decent politician there is, finding out what's going to happen and trying to do what they can to avert disaster. We're reeling. The countries reeling and what are they doing? They're still fucking intent on getting rid of Corbyn.

I've had it with them.
I fully understand everyone's frustration, let's see what happens upto conference. Please people.
Conference is 3 months away. Labour needs to be out there doing what it was set up to do - fighting for those unable to fight against the Camerons, the Goves' the Farages of this country, not seeing an opportunity to rid themselves of a leader they don't like in the hope that the King Across The Water (Miliband D) will return in an Arthurian fashion to save his people.

Absolutely no chance of that at least, thankfully.

But as I have said many times before, I have always expected Corbyn to go before the GE anyway. Its just been a question of when, really.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:49 pm

Live scenes from the Channel Tunnel

: CltNntvWkAA-mKz.jpg (79.76 KiB) Viewed 4763 times

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:49 pm

ephemerid wrote:The only vote of no confidence required has already happened.

Cameron is resigning as a result.

Corbyn had nothing to do with it. If I hadn't left the party already for similar reasons, ie. internecine squabbling by senor Labour people, I'd go now,

Bloody ridiculous.

I need to go and rad a book or something. I am so angry it can't be good for me or anyone in my company.

Thanks all. Laters.

Good for you, rest well, my friend.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:49 pm

Rachael ‏@Rachael_Swindon 32m32 minutes ago

UKIP voter talking to radio host off air. "We can get rid of all the Poles now, once he's done my conservatory".

Jesus wept.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:51 pm

I need this to go away.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:51 pm

Amidst our despondency, maybe it is worth remembering how the "losers" of the Scottish referendum somehow effectively made themselves into the winners.

And 48 is a bigger number than 45.......

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:54 pm

Tories are in disarray even more than normal and will be jostling for leadership for the rest of the summer. And sod the mess they've made.

Labour are in disarray even more than normal and will be jostling for leadership for the rest of the summer. And sod the mess the Tories have made.

And they want me to vote for them?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:56 pm

NonOxCol wrote:And hear bloody hear to this one as well.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

F***ing "Lexit". F*** off. Deluded snowflake idiots.

A little more forceful than I'd have phrased it, but can't disagree with the sentiment.

Thank god I made the decision to vote Remain. I panicked after sending my vote off, wavered somewhat and wondered if I'd done the right thing. Would be chewing my arm off if I had voted Leave, after seeing things unfold and Farage's triumphalism.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:58 pm

Thankfully my parents got through the tunnel in the nick of time and have only the Brussel's strikes to contend with.Not sure how they are getting back.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 1:59 pm

Haven't seen Farage's speech (thankfully) but have been told that it was almost openly fascistic.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 2:00 pm

gilsey wrote:
Rebecca wrote:
danesclose wrote: Margaret Hodge & Ann Coffey have tabled it apparently. Could be a vote on Tuesday
So,Tuesday I will leave the labour party.Because I have a lot of confidence in Jeremy Corbyn and not much in any of the others.
I forgot, there is an outstanding candidate. Is this enough of a crisis for him to have a rethink?
Come back Ed, all is forgiven.

Chris Bryant wouldn't be happy. He was threatening to punch Ed in the early hours.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 2:01 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote: But as I have said many times before, I have always expected Corbyn to go before the GE anyway. Its just been a question of when, really.

Two alternatives I can see.

1. Corbyn goes now (or while the Tory leadership is taking place) and then we wait and see what happens before 2020

2. Corbyn stays, waits to see how the Tory right make a complete mess of everything in the next 3 years...and then stands down say in 2019.

Also, might be worth hanging on to see what happens in Scotland. Not having Labour "in the SNP's pocket" might help.

Edit - also might be worth hanging on to see what happens with UKIP.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 2:02 pm

It must be purely a co-incidence that the closer Boris Johnson's got to Cameron's job the tidier his hair has become. He's actually learnt how to comb it down and almost all in the same direction.
What a little con man he is.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 2:02 pm

Willow904 wrote:
TR'sGhost wrote:
Willow904 wrote: Although it could have been worse in 2008. It was the rapidity and decisiveness of Gordon Brown's response that headed complete disaster off at the pass. The longer the government takes to decide what to do next, the worse it will be, regardless of the ultimate action taken imo. If it was me I'd already be making noises about the single market and free movement of people still possible to calm nerves in Northern Ireland and Scotland. Also, the deputy must step up now Cameron has effectively resigned. He could have stayed on and started Brexit negotiations, but this half still PM half not is the worst possible scenario. He has to go completely straight away and let the deputy take over. The markets like clarity and all they're getting is fudge.
You're assuming the deputy PM would want to take over right now.

I for one certainly wouldn't.
It just dawned on me.....do the Tories even have a deputy leader? God, what a shambles.

It seems there's no deputy PM at the moment. There's no constitutional requirement for one, the post is created as seems necessary. Clegg was the last.

I think Robert Halfon MP might be the deputy leader of the Tories, some papers from 2015 say he is, but his Wiki page only says he is/was deputy chair.

The second highest ranking government post is the Chancellor, so of Cameron were to go right now I guess that puts Osborne in charge.

On the subject of Gideon, has anyone seen or heard from him recently? All of a sudden he's become the invisible man. I thought he had an emergency austerity-like-you've-never-believed-possible budget to attend to.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 2:03 pm

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ni ... ld-8273721

Farage told the Mirror: “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.”

But with Leave winning by a smaller margin 51.89% - 48.11% he's OK with that.

(Going back to PF's point from earlier)

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 2:04 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote: But as I have said many times before, I have always expected Corbyn to go before the GE anyway. Its just been a question of when, really.
Two alternatives I can see.

1. Corbyn goes now (or while the Tory leadership is taking place) and then we wait and see what happens before 2020

2. Corbyn stays, waits to see how the Tory right make a complete mess of everything in the next 3 years...and then stands down say in 2019.

Also, might be worth hanging on to see what happens in Scotland. Not having Labour "in the SNP's pocket" might help.

I don't like 1. There needs to be unity to hammer the Tories. Majority is still pretty thin.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 2:04 pm

Morgan Stanley already moving 2000 staff overseas

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 2:04 pm

Appropriation of Blair's "new dawn" surrounded by thugs,military language evident,"Independence Day"-except it isn't a film.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 2:05 pm

I cannot get my around the fact that we soon may well have a philandering, liar as a PM.

Whose main ploy is to go out and act like a clown and provide photo calls for fawning journalists.

Please, let there be enough sensible people who can see past the bull shit and put someone at least vaguely sensible up, comes to something when you want a Philip Hammond or Theresa May to stand as PM.

I know this won't be appreciated here, but I also agree with TE's earlier post, no surprise probably, Corbyn for too long periods missing in action, he appeared too half hearted. I agree it wasn't his head on the block, Cameron's was, who could have garnered as leader another 2% amongst working class in Wales and the north I don't know, names will be bandied about no doubt..

I live next to a polling station and I knew remain was in trouble around my small area by the people going in and voting, round these parts you tend to know everyone and to be polite they weren't the most sensible.. If that comes across as patronising and snobbish I apologise, but today I am downbeat and ashamed..

The country of my youth is no longer all encompassing, intelligent and compassionate, don't let anyone tell you Wales is a left wing country, we are as selfish and thick as any other area.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 2:05 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Amidst our despondency, maybe it is worth remembering how the "losers" of the Scottish referendum somehow effectively made themselves into the winners.

And 48 is a bigger number than 45.......

Sounds good - what are the possibilities?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 2:06 pm

TR'sGhost wrote:
On the subject of Gideon, has anyone seen or heard from him recently? All of a sudden he's become the invisible man. I thought he had an emergency austerity-like-you've-never-believed-possible budget to attend to.

I suspect he's doing a 1984-stylee wipeout of any mention of that budget...very silly thing to do given that it sounds like the Article 50 won't even be invoked until after the new PM is installed.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 2:07 pm

Bel Trew - بل ترو ‏@Beltrew 10m10 minutes ago
Morgan Stanley has just announced it will relocate 2000 key London-based investment banking jobs to Dublin or Frankfurt: it begins #Brexit