FlyTheNest

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 7:42 pm**

RogerOThornhill wrote:As I've just discovered it's a parody account.

Are you absolutely sure about that?

If so they need to copyright it before she uses it.

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 7:43 pm**

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
fedup59 wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote: There is no doubt Corbyn is popular with the members and the 3 pound brigade. It is indeed entirely possible he could win, despite not fulfilling the original criteria for a candidate to get on the ballot.

There is equally no doubt he is unpopular with the electorate. The MPs are generally a self interested lot and are opposing Corbyn because they are concerned that he is going to get hammered at the election. If they thought for a minute he was in any way electable his only opposition would be the 20 odd Blairite agitators.
This is an honest question TE. What do you think the role of members in a party political system should be?
An excellent question.

In theory of course the Bennite position that members should decide policy, continually hold MPs to account and be the guardians of the party to stop it deviating from the true path is correct.

In reality such an approach is an unmitigated disaster, much like communism it doesn't work in the real world.

The problem is party members are all in their way oddballs, as is everybody on this board, myself included. They tend to be very politically engaged and pay relatively little attention to the views of the general population, where they notice such things they assume people care about the same things they do (which they don't).

So if members set policy the party moves rapidly away from the consensus view (the so called middle ground). There is excellent polling evidence (well not that excellent then) that this has happened to Labour since 2015. This evidence shows Labour Policy diverging from its voters views and then re-converging a bit but around 25% less voters.

It is no coincidence that periods of time where members/activists dictate policy have correlated with periods when Labour were utterly unelectable.

If you look at what has happened to the Republican Party in America it is perhaps less contentious and easier to see. The base has become white, angry, and very right wing, the Tea Party fed off this and became the proxy for the base, resulting ultimately in Trump. This is politically toxic, because the election constituency it satisfies is too small to ever win.

In the UK if the Tory Party members set policy, our justice system would look like the village council's in Hot Fuzz.

https://youtu.be/DnqPrDN77Xg

In general normal non political people don't like this stuff, I say in general because the Hot Fuzz approach might work in the Shires. Therefore to get elected in the UK you need a carefully calibrated mapping of your party's core values to the electorate. This sort of thing is bloody hard, and is typically beyond the ordinary membership of a party.

So as I see it the role of the members is to support the party in getting elected. They also provide a core value set, and should be able to provide a brake on the leader moving too far away from the core values. Most leaders in any party get into trouble when they move too far off the reservation, similarly though they are often forced to take politically unpopular positions when facing internal elections.

So a say in electing a leader, but not to the extent they can override considerations such as electability, and a voice to be taken under advice, which while not binding should make a PLP think twice before making radical direction changes. They should also provide input into policy, policy wonks may ignore it but they need to ensure they know what their activists think.

I don't disagree with much there to be honest

The problem I se, which you highlighted, is the tendency to regress to the mean which is okay in times of plenty but in times of crisis radical responses may be needed and trying to find a consensus may be damaging. I think we are going through these times now

You have also missed out the link between local members and their MP...or candidate. This is less simple as most people vote for the party and not the candidate (obviously exceptions and there is always the personal uptick).

In this case the local members cannot influence how a member votes...this is for the constituents as a whole...although my guess is a significant number of MPs don't do much consulting with the wider community.....and they can't even be too influenced by that either. They have to decide themselves on their values and the ones that they were elected on.

Where local members do have a role though is the selection of a party representative....in some cases they don't have much say in that even and it used to be a favourite ploy of Blair to parachute in candidates. They also should be able to have an influence on how that MP votes on party matters, especially those from which members are excluded. This is why I think Eagle's ignoring of her CLP on the no-confidence vote is risky. This is not a matter for the wider constituency...this is a matter for the party membership

Then the thorny question of mandatory reselection. I am not a fan myself but if candidates move to far away from the party membership in the PLP then there may be some need to allow members to be deselected before an election....I would personally vote against the reselection Emma Reynolds if in Wolverhampton for her antics as I do not think she represents the best interests of the party. She can always stand as an independent if she wants. I would never try to force her out before an election though or try to force a policy position on her

In order to push back against such reselection then the MP cannot ignore the CLP and not be sensitive to their changing direction

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 7:44 pm**

RobertSnozers wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
utopiandreams wrote:I suspect than when Michael has sex, he's told whether or not he enjoyed it.
yeah - thanks so much for that enduring visual image
Don't say things like 'enduring' in this context!

That explains it Gove has an unusual condition. Resting O face.

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 7:48 pm**

Ironic metre through the roof
Which leadership contender are you?

https://www.riddle.com/a/74657" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I got Jeremy Corbyn

(the questions are a bit limited tho

)

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 7:51 pm**

Freedomofthepress wrote:Hello Everybody, some of ye may remember our paths crossing (and swords crossing too if I am to be honest) over at the other place (AS's blog) and I rarely contribute there any longer. I have been reading everybody's musing here for quite some time so decided to bite the bug and sign up.

This feels a bit like the Summer of 2011 when the Hacking story broke in terms of the fast moving narrative though looking back on that time, this feels a bit depressing as then one could feel hope and believe that times "they were achanging", how wrong one was.

We are living in historic times and it would be good to contribute to musings on the various issues.

Over and out,

PS: thanks refitman for assisting where assistance should not have been required as I realised where the problem was just now - too distracted yesterday.

Hello, glad you finally made it in.

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 7:52 pm**

Temulkar wrote:It appears that a former Special Adviser for Policy & Comms in early Blair government registered http://angela4leader.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; on Sat.

A whois search for the domain angela4leader.org returns the following information.

Updated Date: 2016-06-25
Created Date: 2016-06-25
Registration Expiration Date: 2017-06-25

Registrant Contact
Name: Joe McCrea
Organization: Joe McCrea
Mailing Address: Cumberland House, MATLOCK DE4 3PE GB
Phone: +44.1332742750
Ext:
Fax:
Fax Ext:
Email: info@ruddygood.com

Admin Contact
Name: Joe McCrea
Organization: Joe McCrea
Mailing Address: Cumberland House, MATLOCK DE4 3PE GB
Phone: +44.1332742750
Ext:
Fax:
Fax Ext:
Email: info@ruddygood.com

Tech Contact
Name: Joe McCrea
Organization: Joe McCrea
Mailing Address: Cumberland House, MATLOCK DE4 3PE GB
Phone: +44.1332742750
Ext:
Fax:
Fax Ext:
Email: info@ruddygood.com

So yes, the domain was created on 25/06/2016.
And a person by the name of Joe McCrea who appears to based in Buxton is the registered owner.
Which might be the same Joe McCrea who lives in Matlock Bath, near Buxton and whose linked profile is here - https://uk.linkedin.com/in/joe-mccrea-0381016" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

And was indeed once an advisor to the Prime Minister.

And despite all his impressive list of qualifications and experience obviously failed to realise that checking when a domain was registered is trivially easy. Which I guess is why, assuming he wanted to keep things under wraps, he didn't do the sensible thing and build a website using a "holding" name ready for upload, then grab angela4leader.org after announcements had been made.

edited for stupid typo.

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 7:52 pm**

AngryAsWell wrote:Ironic metre through the roof
Which leadership contender are you?

https://www.riddle.com/a/74657" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I got Jeremy Corbyn

(the questions are a bit limited tho )

me as well

It does raise an interesting point.....there are not many of his policies I would say I disagreed with (I am against Trident by the way)

I think it is all around leadership and that is one of the problems I don't trust any of the rest of them not to row back on the policies

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 7:53 pm**

Above,

The problem with reselection is it allows vocal pressure groups far too much power, to the detriment of the wider electorate. So on the whole best not go there.

There is an issue in ultra safe seats, but in marginals MPs have constraints. Benn was so unpopular in the 80s he lost his seat, similarly Chris Patten in Bath.

All leaders parachute their chosen mates into safe seats, they rarely do it in marginals though, as pissing off the activists has a price.

That said there are some benefits in allowing a talented outsider in rather than always the local stalwart.

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 7:58 pm**

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:As I've just discovered it's a parody account.
Are you absolutely sure about that?

If so they need to copyright it before she uses it.

No tick on the account...

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:00 pm**

Crikey.

First off. Many people find me annoying. Including some people in my local. Like the three geezers on Saturday night on whom I more or less forced a 2 hour discussion about Brexit, after one of them foolishly prodded this particular bear. I won't go into it, but it was their own fault. Point is, had they let me lie they wouldn't have triggered clangmageddon; but I wouldn't want to be barred from the pub because I'm not universally palatable.

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:00 pm**

@freedomofthepress

Hello!

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:01 pm**

TechnicalEphemera wrote:Above,

The problem with reselection is it allows vocal pressure groups far too much power, to the detriment of the wider electorate. So on the whole best not go there.

There is an issue in ultra safe seats, but in marginals MPs have constraints. Benn was so unpopular in the 80s he lost his seat, similarly Chris Patten in Bath.

All leaders parachute their chosen mates into safe seats, they rarely do it in marginals though, as pissing off the activists has a price.

That said there are some benefits in allowing a talented outsider in rather than always the local stalwart.

I am not against parachuting but it cannot be done without some refrence to local sensistivities (and that has been done time on time which is not good)

Marginals are a self-regulating to a certain extent and the choice of candidate there is different to a safe seat. The competencies are different. The difficulty as you say are the safe seats where MP can just do what they want to a certain extent without reference back

In certain cases though it may be required.....sooner rather than later if this gets even messier than it is now.......will depend how CLP jump but if it goes to an election that Corbyn wins and he retains the CLP structure to a large extent....even losing 50% of members would leave the party bigger than it was but clearly with a different make-up .

This is without taking to account the reduction in MPs and the new boundaries (is that one of the reasons for deposing him before that happens as well perhaps)

I hope it doesn't go there

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:04 pm**

TR'sGhost wrote:
Temulkar wrote:It appears that a former Special Adviser for Policy & Comms in early Blair government registered http://angela4leader.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; on Sat.
A whois search for the domain angela4leader.org returns the following information.

Updated Date: 2016-06-25
Created Date: 2016-06-25
Registration Expiration Date: 2017-06-25

Registrant Contact
Name: Joe McCrea
Organization: Joe McCrea
Mailing Address: Cumberland House, MATLOCK DE4 3PE GB
Phone: +44.1332742750
Ext:
Fax:
Fax Ext:
Email: info@ruddygood.com

Admin Contact
Name: Joe McCrea
Organization: Joe McCrea
Mailing Address: Cumberland House, MATLOCK DE4 3PE GB
Phone: +44.1332742750
Ext:
Fax:
Fax Ext:
Email: info@ruddygood.com

Tech Contact
Name: Joe McCrea
Organization: Joe McCrea
Mailing Address: Cumberland House, MATLOCK DE4 3PE GB
Phone: +44.1332742750
Ext:
Fax:
Fax Ext:
Email: info@ruddygood.com

So yes, the domain was created on 25/06/2016.
And a person by the name of Joe McCrea who appears to based in Buxton is the registered owner.
Which might be the same Joe McCrea who lives in Matlock Bath, near Buxton and whose linked profile is here - https://uk.linkedin.com/in/joe-mccrea-0381016" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

And was indeed once an advisor to the Prime Minister.

And despite all his impressive list of qualifications and experience obviously failed to realise that checking when a domain was registered is trivially easy. Which I guess is why, assuming he wanted to keep things under wraps, he didn't do the sensible thing and build a website using a "holding" name ready for upload, then grab angela4leader.org after announcements had been made.

edited for stupid typo.

Checked his profile......he is Labour from way back....

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:07 pm**

Having progressed from living in the political equivalent of Dallas to something entirely surreal, Robert, Tem, are you preparing the film script yet?

We could have a democratic vote on title:

The Brits
Britcho
The Night of the Living Brits
Hot Brit
Exorbrit

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:13 pm**

TechnicalEphemera wrote:Above,

The problem with reselection is it allows vocal pressure groups far too much power, to the detriment of the wider electorate. So on the whole best not go there.

There is an issue in ultra safe seats, but in marginals MPs have constraints. Benn was so unpopular in the 80s he lost his seat, similarly Chris Patten in Bath.

All leaders parachute their chosen mates into safe seats, they rarely do it in marginals though, as pissing off the activists has a price.

That said there are some benefits in allowing a talented outsider in rather than always the local stalwart.

Benn lost his seat because of Bristol boundry changes and deselection not becasue 'he lost his seat'. That's a fabrication.

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:13 pm**

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/so- ... 11416.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In case my previous mail was simply too cheery.

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:16 pm**

Regrets, I've had a few: Kelvin MacKenzie and the great Brexit U-turn

https://www.theguardian.com/media/media ... xit-u-turn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:18 pm**

QT tonight.

David Dimbleby presents Question Time from Preston. On the panel are Conservative education minister Sam Gyimah MP, Labour's shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry MP, Ukip's Douglas Carswell MP, comedian Russell Kane and the Times columnist Melanie Phillips.

Ooh, now let me guess what question about a current event might come up when Mad Mel is on the programme? Surely not a coincidence.

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:19 pm**

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britai ... QS?rpc=401" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The number of hate crimes reported to British police online, including some assaults, has increased by more than 500 percent in the week after the country voted to leave the European Union, a senior police chief said on Thursday.

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:19 pm**

: Screen Shot 2016-06-30 at 21.16.14.png (90.76 KiB) Viewed 5888 times

Guess which one of these two consecutive tweets the Grauniad forgot to mention

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:21 pm**

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:Video of when Ruth Smeeth walked out

http://order-order.com/2016/06/30/jewis ... ism-event/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seems an exchange focused on lack of ethnic minorities in the Labour ranks. I believe he also mentioned her specifically and her links to the Telegraph. Unpleasant - perhaps, antisemitic doubtful

Is there anything that supports her statement out there? Seems it was on camera
I am happy to take her word for it, you should be as well.

A slightly longer video, with the camera focussed on Wadsworth.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 11366.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No anti-Semitism I can see or hear, the fuss and call of "disgusting" starts when Wadworth says something about Ruth Smee being handed a press release by the Telegraph and basically questions her loyalties. I find it hard to believe the Independent would miss the opportunity to publish any anti-semitic remarks that were made. Unless they're in Momentum as well perhaps.

Hardly a diplomatic thing to do, and according to the I Wadsworth had some criticism of Corbyn as well. He also seems a bit outraged at being called anti-Semitic. After Cameron called a Conservative-supporting Imam an "extremist" and "dangerous", a Labour MP appears to have evened the score by calling a long-standing anti-racist campaigner an anti-Semite.

And it's all Corbyn's fault.

I did wonder why the statement on her website was so brief and mentioned no details at all, just how upset she is.

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:23 pm**

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 11496.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Brexit could create an economic crisis, Barclays chairman John McFarlane warns

Who would have thought?

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:23 pm**

Welcome to Freedom of the Press, and hello again minch.

My daughter and nearly son came to visit today, and we have (leftover, but nice all the same) - fruit cake, lemon drizzle cake, strawberries, and plenty of good Italian coffee and proper Welsh tea.

Please dig in, it's lovely to see you.

(You can't have the hazelnut cookies, they are the exclusive supply of CitizenJA)

)

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:26 pm**

ephemerid wrote:This is beyond ridiculous.

That's all I have to say.

(

Well yeah. A couple hours ago, my husband came in to show me eight pages of Doris Lessing's, The Four-Gated City.
It was published in 1969. The volume is about seven-hundred pages long, the relevant pages start approximately five-hundred.
If someone were to have read the pages to me without telling me it was a Doris Lessing novel, I would’ve thought it a contemporary
political correspondent writing about current affairs.

I've just come back to the computer after taking some time away. I hope everyone is fine. I'll catch up reading the thread now.

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:27 pm**

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 11001.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Facts don't work

(OK I've cherry-picked for Wow Factor)

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:28 pm**

There're only about three-and-a-half hours to go before Angela Eagle can announce that she's about to announce something. It's like New Year's Eve all over again.

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:28 pm**

Winble ‏@KateWinble 41m41 minutes ago

@paulmasonnews @guardiannews Guardian have had to retract their shameful misquote of JC clearly intended to bolster smear of anti Semitism.

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:28 pm**

ephemerid wrote:Welcome to Freedom of the Press, and hello again minch.

My daughter and nearly son came to visit today, and we have (leftover, but nice all the same) - fruit cake, lemon drizzle cake, strawberries, and plenty of good Italian coffee and proper Welsh tea.

Please dig in, it's lovely to see you.

(You can't have the hazelnut cookies, they are the exclusive supply of CitizenJA)

)

I love you.

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:29 pm**

jaydeepee @reddeviljp

It now turns out that the bloke who argued with Ruth Smeeth was not a member of Momentum. Another lie nailed. " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:30 pm**

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 11211.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Michel Sapin said Britain would face “real difficulties” after it voted to leave the European Union and that he was “surprised” those campaigning for Brexit did not appear to have a plan following the referendum.

Excellent understatement. Europe truly doesn't need us any more.

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:31 pm**

is there a no-one ever offered me any cake and I certainly don't have any special cookies (jaffa cakes ideally) put aside for me emoticon?

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:31 pm**

Things seem a little less fraught today despite all that is going on

Welcome to new and old friends

Going to be a rocky road but at least we can all agree that Michael Gove and Boris Johnson are incompetent cockwombles

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:31 pm**

Éoin ‏@LabourEoin 22m

Some MPs who resigned have told me privately it was partly due to pressure put upon them & then now understand the feeling among grassroots.

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:32 pm**

tinyclanger2 wrote:is there a no-one ever offered me any cake and I certainly don't have any special cookies (jaffa cakes ideally) put aside for me emoticon?

There is a lemon butterfly cake in the kitchen...want it?

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:35 pm**

oh i couldn't possibly (emoticon) - I think Mrs Whitcrumble from the Women's Institute has had her eye on that for the last five minutes

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:39 pm**

If it helps - I'm not particularly fond of cake. So that will leave more to go round.

(But I would take great umbrage should I not be offered any, all the same.)

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:41 pm**

ohsocynical wrote:Éoin ‏@LabourEoin 22m

Some MPs who resigned have told me privately it was partly due to pressure put upon them & then now understand the feeling among grassroots.

I did say at some point they would start to crack if it went on too long. I bet any money my local MP is one.

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:42 pm**

howsillyofme1 wrote:Things seem a little less fraught today despite all that is going on

Welcome to new and old friends

Going to be a rocky road but at least we can all agree that Michael Gove and Boris Johnson are incompetent cockwombles

Rocky Road? Yum, one of my favourites.

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:42 pm**

PorFavor wrote:If it helps - I'm not particularly fond of cake. So that will leave more to go round.

(But I would take great umbrage should I not be offered any, all the same.)

You are most sincerely offered it....despite you being in disagreement with my brilliantly argued posts!

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:42 pm**

howsillyofme1 wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:is there a no-one ever offered me any cake and I certainly don't have any special cookies (jaffa cakes ideally) put aside for me emoticon?
There is a lemon butterfly cake in the kitchen...want it?

I think virtual cake is cruel tbh

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:42 pm**

RobertSnozers wrote:
Willow904 wrote:Well, I was wrong about Boris, then. Looking more into the story, it seems he was definitely set to enter the fray last night and then, suddenly at the last minute, boom he's out. "Nobbled" perchance? Gove's connections worry me, rather. There's something quite rum here.
I knew he was in Murdoch's pocket, but it appears he's in Dacre's as well.

I'd love to see his contract for the book he was supposed to write on Viscount Bolingbroke. Every book contract I've ever signed has a strict clause about delivery on an agreed timetable. Usually less than ten years!

Which reminds me. I wonder if IDS has finished his second novel yet? The one he had to dodge several Select Committee meetings to urgently complete a year or two ago.

I suppose he might have finished it and handed to his editor. Who, remembering his first novel fed it unread to the office shredder and it's now having a second more useful life as toilet rolls and cat litter.

What was the best review IDS got for his magnum opus... Oh yes, was it the Telegraph who said.
"Dreadful... Simply dreadful"?

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:42 pm**

Rebecca wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:is there a no-one ever offered me any cake and I certainly don't have any special cookies (jaffa cakes ideally) put aside for me emoticon?
There is a lemon butterfly cake in the kitchen...want it?
I think virtual cake is cruel tbh

you wouldn't be saying that if you had to taste it

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:43 pm**

TR'sGhost wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:
Willow904 wrote:Well, I was wrong about Boris, then. Looking more into the story, it seems he was definitely set to enter the fray last night and then, suddenly at the last minute, boom he's out. "Nobbled" perchance? Gove's connections worry me, rather. There's something quite rum here.
I knew he was in Murdoch's pocket, but it appears he's in Dacre's as well.

I'd love to see his contract for the book he was supposed to write on Viscount Bolingbroke. Every book contract I've ever signed has a strict clause about delivery on an agreed timetable. Usually less than ten years!
Which reminds me. I wonder if IDS has finished his second novel yet? The one he had to dodge several Select Committee meetings to urgently complete a year or two ago.

I suppose he might have finished it and handed to his editor. Who, remembering his first novel fed it unread to the office shredder and it's now having a second more useful life as toilet rolls and cat litter.

What was the best review IDS got for his magnum opus... Oh yes, was it the Telegraph who said.
"Dreadful... Simply dreadful"?

That question on his book might be a good theme to keep asking him if he wins...reminds everyone that he has received a wodge of cash for nowt from the undead one

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:44 pm**

Temulkar wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Éoin ‏@LabourEoin 22m

Some MPs who resigned have told me privately it was partly due to pressure put upon them & then now understand the feeling among grassroots.

I did say at some point they would start to crack if it went on too long. I bet any money my local MP is one.

So they know they are being unjust and dishonest.And cowardly?
They need to have a good,long look at themselves

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:45 pm**

I confess that I have finally started to talk my usual idiotic guff at work, having been far from my sparkling self for the entire week. The news that Boris had committed hari-kiri with his career was wonderfully uplifting.

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:45 pm**

(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges
Andy Burnham has tried to see Corbyn with 6 other shadow cabinet members. He's refused to meet them.
1,454 retweets 1,327 likes

Andy Burnham ‏@andyburnhammp 4h4 hours ago London, England
Andy Burnham Retweeted (((Dan Hodges)))
Not true Dan.Andy Burnham added,
Retweeted 1.5K Like 1.3K

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:49 pm**

So, if some people voting in the referendum thought, not that they were voting to leave Europe, but that were voting for people of various ethnicities, born in various locations (including UK) to "go home" - is it democratic to uphold Brexit?

I realise we can't find out, it's a philosophical question (of sorts)

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:53 pm**

Popped out for a small snifter earlier.
Swigging for Victory.

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:55 pm**

tinyclanger2 wrote:is there a no-one ever offered me any cake and I certainly don't have any special cookies (jaffa cakes ideally) put aside for me emoticon?

Mr citizen brought chocolate rolls - please enjoy.

Posted: **Thu 30 Jun, 2016 8:55 pm**

tinyclanger2 wrote:So, if some people voting in the referendum thought, not that they were voting to leave Europe, but that were voting for people of various ethnicities, born in various locations (including UK) to "go home" - is it democratic to uphold Brexit?

I realise we can't find out, it's a philosophical question (of sorts)

Ha! Unfortunately, the system doesn't take account of the "misguided".

FlyTheNest

Thursday 30th June 2016

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