Saturday 3rd October & Sunday 4th October 2015

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 10:13 pm

Kevin Maguire just tweeted "Andrew 'more than' Adonis"! for no apparent reason. A candidate for resignation, maybe? Can't imagine his going causing much of a splash outside the Westminster bubble, if the case.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 10:21 pm

Willow904 wrote:Kevin Maguire just tweeted "Andrew 'more than' Adonis"! for no apparent reason. A candidate for resignation, maybe? Can't imagine his going causing much of a splash outside the Westminster bubble, if the case.

Gove's always praised him as being the father of his free school and academy plans* even though Adonis has said that Gove went too far - the idea was only to take failing schools away from LAs (and in my view it was because legally LAs din't have enough power to do anything and schools had too much autonomy - not the line we've been sold).

* There were academies pre-2010 which had no predecessor school i.e. they were free schools before there was supposed to be any such thing.

I feel a post about school autonomy coming on...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 10:23 pm

Mr. citizen is exceedingly exhausted from his day. At one point during the long day, he and thousands of others watched Tories standing on a balcony approximately a quarter of a mile away. No one got closer than that to the Tory encampment. The Manchester Police were courteous, according to Mr. c. It was a long day, standing for hours, marching orderly, sounding off dissatisfaction. This isn't good enough - the budget cuts aren't necessary - people are homeless, without support, without social security provision. It's hard too, listening to the speeches of many speaking on behalf of others unable to attend. Someone had a sign that read the number of people would be double but those friends were on call and working shifts today in order to keep civilisation going.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 10:23 pm

It seems that it is Adonis - tomorrow's Indie is apparently leading on it.

The official version is that he is resigning the Labour whip so that he can work with the government on infrastructure projects - Adonis has long been a big HS2 supporter in particular.

If that is what has happened, it surely falls into "small earthquake in Chile" territory?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 10:28 pm

I should place my automobile emissions regulatory failures and fraudulent private sector industry crimes against the people and environment in another thread, I think. I'm happy to be taught how to do this or I can figure it out myself but not tonight. Anyone with a suggestion for me regarding this, please don't hesitate to let me know.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 10:33 pm

Adonis is very respected for his work on rail- most respected of any politician, I'd say.

He would have been working for Tessa Jowell if she'd got to be London Mayor- which I wouldn't have been so sure about. Would have wanted very aggressive redevelopment of council estates. While these redevelopments aren't always as bad as they sound (when you hear about the number of social rent flats being relatively low, ask how many of the old ones had been sold) leaseholders (whether the original right-to-buy people or not) don't deserve to be chucked out. Some of us (I declare an interest) like to think we fill some sort of demographic gap between the mostly poor social tenants and very rich buyers of new flats).

Spending more time on HS2 is about right, I think.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 10:33 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:It seems that it is Adonis - tomorrow's Indie is apparently leading on it.

The official version is that he is resigning the Labour whip so that he can work with the government on infrastructure projects - Adonis has long been a big HS2 supporter in particular.

If that is what has happened, it surely falls into "small earthquake in Chile" territory?

On the front pages of The Times and Guardian too.

http://www.thepaperboy.com/uk/front-pages.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The majority of people outside the Westminster bubble will say "Who?"

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 10:35 pm

http://andrewadonis.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He can speak for himself.
I'll wait until he does so to find out what he's doing.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 10:36 pm

Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak 19m19 minutes ago
Lord Adonis leaves Labour Party to become crossbench peer - Govt: Former Labour cabinet minister to head National Infrastructure Commission

Not sure it's even earthquake significance ... more a tremor?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 10:41 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak 19m19 minutes ago
Lord Adonis leaves Labour Party to become crossbench peer - Govt: Former Labour cabinet minister to head National Infrastructure Commission
Not sure it's even earthquake significance ... more a tremor?

National Infrastructure Commission?

That's not one of those quango things that were supposed to have all been burnt 5 years ago is it?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 10:41 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
Willow904 wrote:Kevin Maguire just tweeted "Andrew 'more than' Adonis"! for no apparent reason. A candidate for resignation, maybe? Can't imagine his going causing much of a splash outside the Westminster bubble, if the case.
Gove's always praised him as being the father of his free school and academy plans* even though Adonis has said that Gove went too far - the idea was only to take failing schools away from LAs (and in my view it was because legally LAs din't have enough power to do anything and schools had too much autonomy - not the line we've been sold).

* There were academies pre-2010 which had no predecessor school i.e. they were free schools before there was supposed to be any such thing.

I feel a post about school autonomy coming on...

Interesting theory about LAs not having enough powers.

As I said before, I think the idea was sound to "turn around" sink schools (which it suited some areas to have to keep the oiks out of the way) via central DfE involvement. What wasn't sound was the obsession with handing them over to businessmen, religious people etc.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 10:42 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak 19m19 minutes ago
Lord Adonis leaves Labour Party to become crossbench peer - Govt: Former Labour cabinet minister to head National Infrastructure Commission
Not sure it's even earthquake significance ... more a tremor?

Yeah, Adonis joined the board of HS2 Ltd as a Non-Executive Director in mid-July this year.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 10:46 pm

I think it is fair to say the anti-Labour media would have been hoping for a bigger "catch" than that by now.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 10:48 pm

citizenJA wrote:I should place my automobile emissions regulatory failures and fraudulent private sector industry crimes against the people and environment in another thread, I think. I'm happy to be taught how to do this or I can figure it out myself but not tonight. Anyone with a suggestion for me regarding this, please don't hesitate to let me know.

Features & Analysis might be a good place. Just click 'New Topic' at the top and start a new subject.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 10:51 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak 19m19 minutes ago
Lord Adonis leaves Labour Party to become crossbench peer - Govt: Former Labour cabinet minister to head National Infrastructure Commission
Not sure it's even earthquake significance ... more a tremor?
National Infrastructure Commission?

That's not one of those quango things that were supposed to have all been burnt 5 years ago is it?

I see (part of?) Monitor is merging with something or other, to form a new quango too.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 10:53 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak 19m19 minutes ago
Lord Adonis leaves Labour Party to become crossbench peer - Govt: Former Labour cabinet minister to head National Infrastructure Commission
Not sure it's even earthquake significance ... more a tremor?
National Infrastructure Commission?

That's not one of those quango things that were supposed to have all been burnt 5 years ago is it?

Sir John Armitt’s National Infrastructure Commission - long-term infrastructure planning with an independent National Infrastructure Commission

http://www.infrastructure-intelligence. ... e_Bill.pdf

I liked that one.
I don't agree with Heathrow expansion; if memory serves, it's not part of the document linked above.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 10:54 pm

Guardian lead story is quite big.

Dan Poulter (no longer a health minister) says government reneged on a gentleman's agreement with the BMA re contracts. He also says new contract is a danger to patients.

Apol if been linked to before- I don't skim read very well.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... h-minister" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 11:01 pm

citizenJA wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: Not sure it's even earthquake significance ... more a tremor?
National Infrastructure Commission?

That's not one of those quango things that were supposed to have all been burnt 5 years ago is it?
Sir John Armitt’s National Infrastructure Commission - long-term infrastructure planning with an independent National Infrastructure Commission

http://www.infrastructure-intelligence. ... e_Bill.pdf

I liked that one.
I don't agree with Heathrow expansion; if memory serves, it's not part of the document linked above.

Heathrow Expansion is a funny one, and an illustration of how some parts of the electorate have more clout than others. It would annoy lots of (mostly) well off people in West and South West London, but it would be good (economically) for London as a whole. I don't really fly but if I did, having a major hub airport easily accessible to me by Crossrail would be very handy.

Yet everyone running for London Mayor (apart from Siobhan Benita and Gareth Thomas, and Ken Livingstone before) has been against it.

It would be OK if it happened but it's not a priority for the UK as a whole. As far as people outside London are concerned, a hub airport might as well be in the Netherlands.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 11:05 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Guardian lead story is quite big.

Dan Poulter (no longer a health minister) says government reneged on a gentleman's agreement with the BMA re contracts. He also says new contract is a danger to patients.

Apol if been linked to before- I don't skim read very well.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... h-minister" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just started reading it ... think you are right. When a former health minister decides to speak out like this it's big. Pretty damning of Hunt.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 11:10 pm

I don't know the background to Poulter stepping down as a health minister. They seemed to lean a fair bit on him and his "trust me, I'm a doctor" background. He might have resented that.

He's gone up in my estimation a lot.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 11:18 pm

Christopher Hope ‏@christopherhope 3h3 hours ago
NEW IDS: David Cameron has asked me to go through Government policies and check they are supporting not ruining families #DefeatingPoverty

Well if they weren't ruining families before ... they will be by the time IDS has worked on them.

No doubt he'll declare them all a rip roaring success.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 11:20 pm

citizenJA wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak 19m19 minutes ago
Lord Adonis leaves Labour Party to become crossbench peer - Govt: Former Labour cabinet minister to head National Infrastructure Commission
Not sure it's even earthquake significance ... more a tremor?
Yeah, Adonis joined the board of HS2 Ltd as a Non-Executive Director in mid-July this year.

Is that not a 'conflict of interest?' I'm sure I've heard that term used, somewhere. Perhaps it's an archaic term for fisticuffs/duels/wars to win the ~~dowry~~ hand-in-marriage of a fair damsel...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 11:21 pm

Mary Creagh ‏@MaryCreaghMP 47m47 minutes ago
Not sure Chris Smith "defected" when he gave up Labour whip to chair Environment Agency. Papers making summat of nowt with Andrew Adonis...

Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 42m42 minutes ago
Lord Adonis can resign Labour Lords whip to be cross bencher and remain Labour Party member implementing Ed Balls Labour industrial policy.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 11:25 pm

The Guardian crowd are doing the old "Chomsky says defund and privatize".

Is it that though, this time? Poulter talks about A&E doctors. That's not an obvious area for privatization. If anything, a functioning (public) A&E is needed to backstop the private medicine.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 11:29 pm

refitman wrote:
citizenJA wrote:I should place my automobile emissions regulatory failures and fraudulent private sector industry crimes against the people and environment in another thread, I think. I'm happy to be taught how to do this or I can figure it out myself but not tonight. Anyone with a suggestion for me regarding this, please don't hesitate to let me know.
Features & Analysis might be a good place. Just click 'New Topic' at the top and start a new subject.

Thank you, refitman!
I've started a thread and I'll place that news in another thread from now on.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 11:32 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Mary Creagh ‏@MaryCreaghMP 47m47 minutes ago
Not sure Chris Smith "defected" when he gave up Labour whip to chair Environment Agency. Papers making summat of nowt with Andrew Adonis...

Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 42m42 minutes ago
Lord Adonis can resign Labour Lords whip to be cross bencher and remain Labour Party member implementing Ed Balls Labour industrial policy.

Confirms what I've seen recently too.
I'm sorry I'm not more upset, I tried, but I'm not threatened by this.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 11:35 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Christopher Hope ‏@christopherhope 3h3 hours ago
NEW IDS: David Cameron has asked me to go through Government policies and check they are supporting not ruining families #DefeatingPoverty
Well if they weren't ruining families before ... they will be by the time IDS has worked on them.

No doubt he'll declare them all a rip roaring success.

Even if they were, he shouldn't be marking his own homework.

I thought it was supposed to be cross department, the families drive anyway.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 11:36 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: Not sure it's even earthquake significance ... more a tremor?
Yeah, Adonis joined the board of HS2 Ltd as a Non-Executive Director in mid-July this year.
Is that not a 'conflict of interest?' I'm sure I've heard that term used, somewhere. Perhaps it's an archaic term for fisticuffs/duels/wars to win the ~~dowry~~ hand-in-marriage of a fair damsel...

Take a look at Lord Adonis' About Me web page.
http://andrewadonis.com/about-me/
I'm not sure this work isn't above board and consistent; I don't think this is compromising.
I'm fine finding out he's a scoundrel.
I'll be sad but it's best to know the truth.
I remain open to new information.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 11:39 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote: National Infrastructure Commission?

That's not one of those quango things that were supposed to have all been burnt 5 years ago is it?
Sir John Armitt’s National Infrastructure Commission - long-term infrastructure planning with an independent National Infrastructure Commission

http://www.infrastructure-intelligence. ... e_Bill.pdf

I liked that one.
I don't agree with Heathrow expansion; if memory serves, it's not part of the document linked above.
Heathrow Expansion is a funny one, and an illustration of how some parts of the electorate have more clout than others. It would annoy lots of (mostly) well off people in West and South West London, but it would be good (economically) for London as a whole. I don't really fly but if I did, having a major hub airport easily accessible to me by Crossrail would be very handy.

Yet everyone running for London Mayor (apart from Siobhan Benita and Gareth Thomas, and Ken Livingstone before) has been against it.

It would be OK if it happened but it's not a priority for the UK as a whole. As far as people outside London are concerned, a hub airport might as well be in the Netherlands.

It's an environmental disaster, expanding Heathrow.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 11:42 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: Not sure it's even earthquake significance ... more a tremor?
Yeah, Adonis joined the board of HS2 Ltd as a Non-Executive Director in mid-July this year.
Is that not a 'conflict of interest?' I'm sure I've heard that term used, somewhere. Perhaps it's an archaic term for fisticuffs/duels/wars to win the ~~dowry~~ hand-in-marriage of a fair damsel...

Good point.

Though he knows a lot about rail, part of his job might have been to shore up Labour support for HS2. There was lots of talk about Corbyn opposing it, which he didn't in the end. Maybe he'll resign from that anyway?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 11:47 pm

I've just done a search for "infrastructure" in the Conservative manifesto and there is no mention of any organisational change or new body needing creating so that when Osborne says that it was all his doing, we'll know that it really wasn't and all he's done is nick Ed Balls's idea.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 11:48 pm

A brief look at their impact assessments,which specifically state they expect/ed harm with fairness and affordabilty posited as justifications-unless of course the definition of family,least of all typical doesn't encompass people designated otherwise,hardly surprisingly are purposefully anti family in particular care-givena slew of policies which enacted further financial penalisation for doing so,unless you build an extension and may use it for such a purpose.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 11:50 pm

Weren't they supposed to be checking all policy as family friendly anyway?

Am I recalling that correctly?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 11:51 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:I've just done a search for "infrastructure" in the Conservative manifesto and there is no mention of any organisational change or new body needing creating so that when Osborne says that it was all his doing, we'll know that it really wasn't and all he's done is nick Ed Balls's idea.

This would dovetail quite well with a National Investment Bank too, wouldn't it?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 11:53 pm

Yes,there was previous mention of "family friendly"policy "checking"

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 04 Oct, 2015 11:53 pm

Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 05 Oct, 2015 12:00 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28831242" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From October, every new domestic policy "will be examined for its impact on the family", the prime minister said.

in August 2014.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 05 Oct, 2015 12:04 am

citizenJA wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Sir John Armitt’s National Infrastructure Commission - long-term infrastructure planning with an independent National Infrastructure Commission

http://www.infrastructure-intelligence. ... e_Bill.pdf

I liked that one.
I don't agree with Heathrow expansion; if memory serves, it's not part of the document linked above.
Heathrow Expansion is a funny one, and an illustration of how some parts of the electorate have more clout than others. It would annoy lots of (mostly) well off people in West and South West London, but it would be good (economically) for London as a whole. I don't really fly but if I did, having a major hub airport easily accessible to me by Crossrail would be very handy.

Yet everyone running for London Mayor (apart from Siobhan Benita and Gareth Thomas, and Ken Livingstone before) has been against it.

It would be OK if it happened but it's not a priority for the UK as a whole. As far as people outside London are concerned, a hub airport might as well be in the Netherlands.
It's an environmental disaster, expanding Heathrow.

Locally, it is. More widely though?

All things being equal, if it doesn't go ahead, there'll be much the same air traffic, just it'll change somewhere else- Amsterdam, for instance. When HS2 gets going, arguably lots of people from other parts of the UK would use that to get to Heathrow, instead of flying to Amsterdam.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 05 Oct, 2015 12:06 am

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:I've just done a search for "infrastructure" in the Conservative manifesto and there is no mention of any organisational change or new body needing creating so that when Osborne says that it was all his doing, we'll know that it really wasn't and all he's done is nick Ed Balls's idea.
This would dovetail quite well with a National Investment Bank too, wouldn't it?

Yes, of course.

If it is a quango then it's not a defection as such - I guess that Adonis feels that he shouldn't be following the Labour whip when he's in a job that is supposed to be apolitical.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 05 Oct, 2015 12:09 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:I've just done a search for "infrastructure" in the Conservative manifesto and there is no mention of any organisational change or new body needing creating so that when Osborne says that it was all his doing, we'll know that it really wasn't and all he's done is nick Ed Balls's idea.

It wouldn't hurt him to credit Balls, would it?

He could reasonably claim he got the idea moving quickly. From not being in his Manifesto (and they chucked the kitchen sink in otherwise) to appointing the boss in 5 months is good going.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 05 Oct, 2015 12:11 am

Given that families are, in government terms, primarily defined by having children, isn't it odd that the DfE isn't doing this work?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 05 Oct, 2015 12:13 am

Labour did once have the Strategic Rail Authority. I'm not really sure why that went out of favour.

Could be some lessons from the Infrastructure Commission?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 05 Oct, 2015 12:16 am

Heh.

Great story in the DT from Charles Moore's biog of Thatcher and her way of making sure that Mark was OK...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... -mark.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Most of it has been in the press already but the fact that they effectively banished him from the UK is new.

Worth remembering when stories are around about leaders giving their offspring a leg up are around...

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 05 Oct, 2015 12:24 am

Looking at the story in the DT about this new job that Adonis is doing give a bit of a clue as to why it might be happening.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... ssion.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The new body is an attempt to “depoliticise” infrastructure projects and will herald a wave of building across the countryside.

The move is likely to be unpopular with traditional Conservative voters, and sources close to the Chancellor said the initiative shows “a willingness to confront the Tory shires” after years of opposition to building projects.

Well, no actually it's to move the decision to an arms length basis so that he can say "Hey, it's not me that's doing this. Blame Adonis."

A bit crafty really. Be interesting to see how it comes across in the speech later.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 05 Oct, 2015 12:25 am

Night all.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 05 Oct, 2015 12:25 am

LabourLords tweeting that he will more likely be non-affilliated,rather than cross bench (apparently you have to apply) and that it is not that unusual-eg.Jeff Rooker;Chris Smith

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 05 Oct, 2015 12:25 am

Night.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Mon 05 Oct, 2015 3:13 am

Tubby Isaacs wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28831242

From October, every new domestic policy "will be examined for its impact on the family", the prime minister said.
in August 2014.

Could just be he runs everything past Samantha,
or possibly future revelations from Lord Ashcroft will show that this was just a thinly disguised reference to pressure from the Mafia?