Wednesday 29th June 2016

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 7:51 pm

Oh, as you were. Angela Eagle is "likely to . . . " again. (BBC)

Donald Sutherland in "Kelly's Heroes" is now firmly in my mind. That's not an unpleasant image, mind.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 7:59 pm

Burnham trying to get Corbyn to resign,El Gato in hiding in fear of being taken hostage.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:00 pm

Yes she will. (BBC)

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:03 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... out-farage" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Banks has been credited with professionalising Ukip’s referendum push through the Leave.EU campaign. He deployed senior executives and staff from his insurance companies and hired the Washington DC political campaign strategy firm Goddard Gunster on a multi-million pound fee to sharpen its message.

“It was taking an American-style media approach,” said Banks. “What they said early on was ‘facts don’t work’ and that’s it. The remain campaign featured fact, fact, fact, fact, fact. It just doesn’t work. You have got to connect with people emotionally. It’s the Trump success.""
....
“The Conservatives are now trying to rewrite the campaign that immigration wasn’t important, but boy was immigration important,” Banks said. “The first thing we did was poll everybody and we found that if immigration wasn’t the issue, the issue was schools or education, proxies for immigration. It was the number one issue by a country mile.”
.....
As a lobby group we have a million supporters and followers, people passionate about the leave campaign,” he said. “Our job now through Ukip and through this is to keep the Conservatives clean in terms of not backtracking on this. I don’t think Boris ever wanted to leave. We will use the army [of Leave.EU supporters] to put them under pressure.”

“We are not above causing trouble,” he continued.

So now we know who's been pulling Nigel's strings and what the puppet master plans next.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:04 pm

Will. (BBC) And that's a whole two minutes later so it must be right.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:06 pm

yahyah wrote:Cameron said he is sorry he lost the referendum.
Makes it sound like he lost half a crown on a nag at Aintree.

Cameron will be fine. OK, he may lose a million or two, but he can afford it.

Depending on how things go, he might even come out of this smelling of roses in a few years time - "the brave man who gave us our freedom, only to be turned on by those who would keep us slaves to the EU".

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:10 pm

TR'sGhost wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... out-farage

"Banks has been credited with professionalising Ukip’s referendum push through the Leave.EU campaign. He deployed senior executives and staff from his insurance companies and hired the Washington DC political campaign strategy firm Goddard Gunster on a multi-million pound fee to sharpen its message.

“It was taking an American-style media approach,” said Banks. “What they said early on was ‘facts don’t work’ and that’s it. The remain campaign featured fact, fact, fact, fact, fact. It just doesn’t work. You have got to connect with people emotionally. It’s the Trump success.""
....
“The Conservatives are now trying to rewrite the campaign that immigration wasn’t important, but boy was immigration important,” Banks said. “The first thing we did was poll everybody and we found that if immigration wasn’t the issue, the issue was schools or education, proxies for immigration. It was the number one issue by a country mile.”
.....
As a lobby group we have a million supporters and followers, people passionate about the leave campaign,” he said. “Our job now through Ukip and through this is to keep the Conservatives clean in terms of not backtracking on this. I don’t think Boris ever wanted to leave. We will use the army [of Leave.EU supporters] to put them under pressure.”

“We are not above causing trouble,” he continued.

So now we know who's been pulling Nigel's strings and what the puppet master plans next.

And this is the sort of thing UKIP are up to in the Lords, by the way:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:10 pm

John McDonnell has described a meeting of the Labour parliamentary party as “like a lynch mob without a rope,”

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:18 pm

how about this:

1) we accept that the left will always divide into small groups on matters of principle
2) we accept also that once divided into small groups they look to build coalitions
3) Labour splits into Labour (Corbyn) and New Labour (PLP)
4) Labour, New Labour, LibDems, Greens, SNP, Plaid etc agree to coordinate putting up seats in a GE (I think Owen Jones is talking about this too) so that we end up with a kind of PR without having to go through the process of getting it

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:21 pm

It is fairly annoying to be snidely attacked for making stuff up about Corbyn. If only that was necessary.

The treasury forecasts were long before Osborne's punishment budget, and easily stand inspection.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7abf7558-28b0 ... z4CztP3swI

If that isn't sabotaging the campaign exactly what is it?

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:22 pm

Maeght wrote:Just seen a young woman - Momentum supporter I think - Barbara ? Making mincemeat of Tom Baldwin (ex Miliband Adviser). On Channel 4 News.

All he could say - in his best 'you are young you don't know anything tone' was that it was essential that Corbyn resign for the sake of the country and the party. She was extremely articulate about anti austerity and Corbyn's support..

Before that there was a report from a Momentum meeting in Sheffield and the journalist was careful to point out that there were ordinary members of labour there as well. She said that there was overwhelming support for Corbyn

Just watched that - she took him to ieces.........he was completely patronising and shit....get'em tae fuck

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:26 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:how about this:

1) we accept that the left will always divide into small on matters of principle
2) we accept also that once divided they look to build coalitions
3) Labour splits into Labour (Corbyn) and New Labour (PLP)
4) Labour, New Labour, LibDems, Greens, SNP, Plaid etc agree to coordinate putting up seats in a GE (I think Owen Jones is talking about this too) so that we end up with a kind of PR without having to go through the process of getting it
This would work were it not for the fact that the people tearing the Labour party down want absolute power. Historically, that wing of the party hates the idea of PR, they don't care about increasing turnout, and their antics over the last six years strongly indicate that they will not go into any sort of grouping without the desire to dominate it.

If it could be made to work if all parties did so in good faith, but I can no longer trust the 'New Labour' tendency.

OK - then we'll leave the New Labour types out of it.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:27 pm

Economist Intelligence Unit assesses the impact of Brexit. Al Murray probably puts on that VCR of Threads.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:33 pm

Brexit campaign donor considers backing new party to replace Ukip

a father of five and married to Russian Ekaterina Paderina (though they are separated)

So even if Murdoch ever actually dies, the nightmare will continue. (if we continue in the current vein)

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:35 pm

I said I’d suggest what I think Corbyn’s post-electoral strategy might have been, so here goes. I may be completely wrong, but it makes sense to me. It's a strategy that has been known to work in all kinds of negotiations. Risky perhaps, but it makes sense. All water under the bridge now of course because he was never allowed to implement it.

I have seen nothing anywhere quoting Corbyn or anyone close to him as saying he wants to be PM so he can trigger A50. I’ve seen a lot of people claiming that’s his life’s ambition, but they’re evidence-free assertions made by people who wish Labour nothing but ill, and "Labour" people who tore down Ed Miliband, attacked Gordon Brown and dedicated themselves to removing Corbyn any way they can the second he was elected.

My perception is that the vote having gone Brexit, Corbyn was trying to salvage what he could by holding Cameron, Osborne, Johnson, Gove’s Dacre, Murdoch and Smith’s feet to the fire and keeping them there until they begged for mercy.

The PM who said he would implement the referendum now won’t. Boris who led the Leave campaign won't.

The Brexiters have not only admitted they told lie after lie, but now daren’t implement the result they campaigned for.

What are they afraid of? Should they not be leaping to do what they and those like them have been saying is essential for the country for the last 40 years?

Why are they now showing so much reluctance? Where is the courage of their conviction?

Go on, you said you wanted this, that everything would be wonderful! So make everything wonderful!.

Oh - you won’t. You never really believed in what you preached, you expected the vote would be Remain.

So you’re bunch of liars who have ruined the UK for your own personal advantage and now haven’t a clue what to do. You never believed or intended a word you said.

So, it appears you agreed with Labour, the SNP, the Greens, the unions, the employers, the financial institutions and the LibDems all along. You agreed with the experts whose opinion you said no-one should listen to.

Our economy is down the toilet, round the bend and heading for the sewers. The far right has had the biggest boost since the blackshirts were defeated at Cable Street in 1936. And the people to blame are sitting on the government benches.

So perhaps we need to take a step back and reconsider this mess and try and get the best possible outcome. Without any more factioneering Tory liars and chancers getting anywhere near it.

So Cameron, resign and call an election or resign and allow the Remain camp in Parliament, which includes many Tory MPs, to try and sort out your mess. Don’t care which, just go, go now and never come back.

And if the Tories did respond by triggering A50, at least the markets would settle a bit. The EU would escape yet more, deeper damage caused by a dithering government and we can move forward. So the EU might, if handled nicely, respond positively to British politicians who opposed this mess and did nothing to cause it.

While they are highly likely to want to heap revenge on revenge if talked down to and shouted at by Cameron, Boris, Nigel and the rest of the arrogant idiots, while the EU takes more and more economic damage because of what they did.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:38 pm

NonOxCol wrote:I have to say, I'm surprised we haven't heard from this man yet. He could emerge from the political underground to be the kingmaker. That would be a major development.

In a week like this...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ckingboris" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...it's feasible.

Its from 17 July 2007. 19 years ago - lots have changed since then, could he still hold the same view do you think?

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:39 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:I have to say, I'm surprised we haven't heard from this man yet. He could emerge from the political underground to be the kingmaker. That would be a major development.

In a week like this...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ckingboris" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...it's feasible.
Its from 17 July 2007. 19 years ago - lots have changed since then, could he still hold the same view do you think?

a dick never changes its spots....or something like that!

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:40 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:I have to say, I'm surprised we haven't heard from this man yet. He could emerge from the political underground to be the kingmaker. That would be a major development.

In a week like this...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ckingboris" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...it's feasible.
Its from 17 July 2007. 19 years ago - lots have changed since then, could he still hold the same view do you think?

I'm completely taking the piss, using his lines from the famously ridiculous article. Basically just fishing for the regulation thank from Por Favor

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:41 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Brexit campaign donor considers backing new party to replace Ukip

a father of five and married to Russian Ekaterina Paderina (though they are separated)

So even if Murdoch ever actually dies, the nightmare will continue. (if we continue in the current vein)

He could call it the New Party.

And then it could change its name...

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:43 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:Brexit campaign donor considers backing new party to replace Ukip

a father of five and married to Russian Ekaterina Paderina (though they are separated)

So even if Murdoch ever actually dies, the nightmare will continue. (if we continue in the current vein)
He could call it the New Party.

And then it could change its name...

Social Nationalists or the National Soci.........oh I think that has been used before

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:44 pm

On Corbyn and article 50

http://labourlist.org/2016/06/corbyn-ar ... voked-now/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
He said the result of the poll means the exit clause – Article 50, which would give a two year period for Britain to leave – must be observed as soon as possible in an interview with the BBC.

“The British people have made their decision. We must respect that result and Article 50 has to be invoked now so that we negotiate an exit from European Union.

I interpreted this as Corbyn being keen to trigger Article 50 - or do you mean something more specific?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:49 pm

US secretary of state expresses doubts over whether Brexit will happen as David Cameron ‘has no idea how he would do it’
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... id-cameron" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:50 pm

@NonOxCol

Have I thanked you lately? I feel that too long a time has elapsed . . . .

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:51 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:So Eagle is out. Then she's in. That's the kind of determined, decisive leadership we need.

Maybe if she starts reconsidering again she should hold a referendum.

For some of them at the moment there will be a sinking feeling that they may have lost. We now have to hope that the membership do vote for him in the numbers everyone expects.

Round one has gone very much to Corbyn and he now has the plotters exactly where they did not want to be.

Interesting Times.

Personally as far as brexit goes, I really don't see another referendum still, I do however think that we should push for the single market a la norway as the best possible alternative to chaos.

They will make Europe a big thing in this election hoping it will damage his core support. I think they are mistaken in that as they have been all down the line, but...

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:52 pm

I'll say one thing for Corbyn - he's got front. One suspects you wouldn't catch him running away from a massive cock-up he'd wantonly created.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:53 pm

It's like living in the political equivalent of Dallas

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:54 pm

Oh, God. We're back to "likely to" again. (BBC)

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:54 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:I'll say one thing for Corbyn - he's got front. One suspects you wouldn't catch him running away from a massive cock-up he'd wantonly created.

I dont think he would have put the national interest to the side in favour of a party management issue either.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:55 pm

Temulkar wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:So Eagle is out. Then she's in. That's the kind of determined, decisive leadership we need.

Maybe if she starts reconsidering again she should hold a referendum.
For some of them at the moment there will be a sinking feeling that they may have lost. We now have to hope that the membership do vote for him in the numbers everyone expects.

Round one has gone very much to Corbyn and he now has the plotters exactly where they did not want to be.

Interesting Times.

Personally as far as brexit goes, I really don't see another referendum still, I do however think that we should push for the single market a la norway as the best possible alternative to chaos.

They will make Europe a big thing in this election hoping it will damage his core support. I think they are mistaken in that as they have been all down the line, but...

He is there for Chilcott now.....that will worry the Blairites, especially as he comes across as good when acting like the stern schoolmaster......wonder why the seem so scared?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 8:59 pm

http://salfordonline.com/26913-benefit- ... uling.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Benefit sanction test case? DWP refund £300 to Salford worker stung by ‘illegal’ ruling

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:02 pm

I too hope Corbyn gets re-elected, if only for the fun of sitting back in a deep, comfortable armchair, in front of a roaring open fire whilst the PLP gets roasted on it. This is one time when a purge would be wholly justified.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:03 pm

PorFavor wrote:
gilsey wrote:Yesterday someone suggested taking a break from this board, as things were getting a little heated.

Just to let you know that I'll be taking a break if Hugo stays around because I don't want to hear about the Labour party all the f****** time.

Which will be a shame as I value the wider discussions here.
The person who suggested that we take a break was RogerOThornhill - who, I'm very pleased to see, didn't take his own advice.

Why not just skip over the posters who don't interest you? I'm sure if you bowl us a different subject to the Labour Party most of us will bite and more variety will result. Although there's no denying that the Labour Party is a hot topic at the moment. But so is the EU. And the events in Turkey. And I could certainly say a lot about the bloody weather. I had to put an extra blanket on the bed last night.

Edited

Bold (Sir Roger . . )

Edited again. Ee, I wish I didn't make so many typos.

Bold Sir Roger sounds like a character from Monty Python & the Holy Grail

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:03 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:It's like living in the political equivalent of Dallas

This last week has gone from apocalypse now to carry on up the hoc

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:04 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:US secretary of state expresses doubts over whether Brexit will happen as David Cameron ‘has no idea how he would do it’
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... id-cameron" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fortunately we have experts for doing that...

Permanent Secretary appointed to lead the new EU unit in Cabinet Office

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/perm ... net-office

Oliver will have responsibility for supporting Cabinet in the examination of options for our future relationship outside the EU, with Europe, and the rest of the world as well as responsibility for the wider European and Global Issues Secretariat.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:07 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
gilsey wrote:Yesterday someone suggested taking a break from this board, as things were getting a little heated.

Just to let you know that I'll be taking a break if Hugo stays around because I don't want to hear about the Labour party all the f****** time.

Which will be a shame as I value the wider discussions here.
The person who suggested that we take a break was RogerOThornhill - who, I'm very pleased to see, didn't take his own advice.

Why not just skip over the posters who don't interest you? I'm sure if you bowl us a different subject to the Labour Party most of us will bite and more variety will result. Although there's no denying that the Labour Party is a hot topic at the moment. But so is the EU. And the events in Turkey. And I could certainly say a lot about the bloody weather. I had to put an extra blanket on the bed last night.

Edited

Bold (Sir Roger . . )

Edited again. Ee, I wish I didn't make so many typos.
Bold Sir Roger sounds like a character from Monty Python & the Holy Grail

'Twas meant to i'faith!

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:08 pm

mbc1955 wrote:I too hope Corbyn gets re-elected, if only for the fun of sitting back in a deep, comfortable armchair, in front of a roaring open fire whilst the PLP gets roasted on it. This is one time when a purge would be wholly justified.

He deserves to be re-elected.
I know loads of people disagree.but imo he has the makings of a great PM.
He must have nerves of steel,can you imagine going into pmqs with 172 of your own mps against you on the backbenches and a spiteful and vindictive Cameron in front and giving a good performance?
Bet Corbyn plays a mean game of poker.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:09 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:US secretary of state expresses doubts over whether Brexit will happen as David Cameron ‘has no idea how he would do it’
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... id-cameron" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fortunately we have experts for doing that...

Permanent Secretary appointed to lead the new EU unit in Cabinet Office

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/perm ... et-office
Oliver will have responsibility for supporting Cabinet in the examination of options for our future relationship outside the EU, with Europe, and the rest of the world as well as responsibility for the wider European and Global Issues Secretariat.

wasn't he the one that Vaz chucked out of the Select Committee cos he was essentially lying?

Good job people like him and Fox don't let past troubles bother them or stop them being considered for big jobs - dishonesty seems to be a job requisite for the Tories

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:13 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... h-minister" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?
But he stressed: “Britain won’t be in the same position as it was beforehand. Things will change. Things have already changed. We return to zero. As we say in French: a clean slate.”

chirac'd have his guts for garters!

PS: Refitman - note expert use of quotes and links since yesterday's intervention

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:13 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Temulkar wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:So Eagle is out. Then she's in. That's the kind of determined, decisive leadership we need.

Maybe if she starts reconsidering again she should hold a referendum.
For some of them at the moment there will be a sinking feeling that they may have lost. We now have to hope that the membership do vote for him in the numbers everyone expects.

Round one has gone very much to Corbyn and he now has the plotters exactly where they did not want to be.

Interesting Times.

Personally as far as brexit goes, I really don't see another referendum still, I do however think that we should push for the single market a la norway as the best possible alternative to chaos.

They will make Europe a big thing in this election hoping it will damage his core support. I think they are mistaken in that as they have been all down the line, but...
We won't get Norway. The EU will not offer us Norway, and I'm not sure the Tories would go for it anyway. It's a crap deal for everyone.

I suspect the battle within the Tory Party will be single market vs limits on immigration. They can't have both, and there seem to be two camps emerging as to which should be the redline.

I'm looking forward to the Tories admitting to everyone that if they want membership of the single market, they are going to have to accept not just free movement of people, but the vast weight of EU regulations as well.

Shall we have a guess on what the final conditions will be

No total single market
Trade deal but limits on services
Financial services not included, no passporting
Limits on immigration
Pay in to budget but reduced amount

I have not mentioned regulations because essentially everything that we sell into Europe will have to conform to their rules

My main assumption is that we will have to trade financial services for immigration limits - big, big price to pay

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:14 pm

NonOxCol wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:I have to say, I'm surprised we haven't heard from this man yet. He could emerge from the political underground to be the kingmaker. That would be a major development.

In a week like this...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ckingboris" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...it's feasible.
Its from 17 July 2007. 19 years ago - lots have changed since then, could he still hold the same view do you think?
I'm completely taking the piss, using his lines from the famously ridiculous article. Basically just fishing for the regulation thank from Por Favor

You got one from me as well

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:15 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote: wasn't he the one that Vaz chucked out of the Select Committee cos he was essentially lying?

Good job people like him and Fox don't let past troubles bother them or stop them being considered for big jobs - dishonesty seems to be a job requisite for the Tories

Blimey, he was too! What a good memory you have!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36029856" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A senior civil servant has been thrown out of a Home Affairs Committee hearing for giving "unsatisfactory" answers.
Oliver Robbins, Home Office second permanent secretary, drew criticism from MPs after sidestepping a series of questions about the Border Force budget - and was threatened with contempt.
After just 20 minutes, chairman Keith Vaz ordered him to leave the session.
Mr Robbins was told to return to the Home Office and provide the answers by the end of the working day.
Mr Vaz said: "I'm going to excuse you from this committee because I think your evidence so far has been unsatisfactory."

An appointment that inspires confidence then...

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:20 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:On Corbyn and article 50

http://labourlist.org/2016/06/corbyn-ar ... voked-now/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
He said the result of the poll means the exit clause – Article 50, which would give a two year period for Britain to leave – must be observed as soon as possible in an interview with the BBC.

“The British people have made their decision. We must respect that result and Article 50 has to be invoked now so that we negotiate an exit from European Union.
I interpreted this as Corbyn being keen to trigger Article 50 - or do you mean something more specific?
When the result came in, I didn't think there was any question that A50 would be signed. It came as a bit of a surprise that Cameron was putting it off. It struck me at the time that it was stretching out the uncertainty and the potential damage for Cameron to avoid invoking it just so he didn't further damage his 'legacy'. I had no reason at the time to suspect that Corbyn thought any different.

I think this delay on A50 is perplexing Europe a bit too.....they are not committing too much until they get it....it is at least 6 months away and could even be longer if you listen to some of the charlatans poncing about as candidates for PM

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:20 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:US secretary of state expresses doubts over whether Brexit will happen as David Cameron ‘has no idea how he would do it’
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... id-cameron" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fortunately we have experts for doing that...

Permanent Secretary appointed to lead the new EU unit in Cabinet Office

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/perm ... et-office
Oliver will have responsibility for supporting Cabinet in the examination of options for our future relationship outside the EU, with Europe, and the rest of the world as well as responsibility for the wider European and Global Issues Secretariat.

wasn't he the one that Vaz chucked out of the Select Committee cos he was essentially lying?

Good job people like him and Fox don't let past troubles bother them or stop them being considered for big jobs - dishonesty seems to be a job requisite for the Tories

Speaking of dishonesty, it didn't do much for my mental equilibrium to hear David Blunkett spouting about Jeremy Corbyn (and you know my feelings about Jeremy Corbyn).

It was David Blunkett who triggered my resignation (which was for cumulative reasons but he was the final straw) from the Labour Party after over 20 years of membership. I rejoined when Ed Miliband came to prominence.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:20 pm

PorFavor wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
PorFavor wrote: The person who suggested that we take a break was RogerOThornhill - who, I'm very pleased to see, didn't take his own advice.

Why not just skip over the posters who don't interest you? I'm sure if you bowl us a different subject to the Labour Party most of us will bite and more variety will result. Although there's no denying that the Labour Party is a hot topic at the moment. But so is the EU. And the events in Turkey. And I could certainly say a lot about the bloody weather. I had to put an extra blanket on the bed last night.

Edited

Bold (Sir Roger . . )

Edited again. Ee, I wish I didn't make so many typos.
Bold Sir Roger sounds like a character from Monty Python & the Holy Grail
'Twas meant to i'faith!

Sorry I'm not quite up to your speed this evening PF

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:23 pm

Given we don't have a plan or even any prep work done, my worry is 2 years isn't long enough for such an unprecedented series of negotiations. I understand that there's uncertainty but there is anyway, and hurrying this too much could just make things even worse. Gut reaction rather than knowledge of such things admittedly.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:23 pm

PorFavor wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote: Fortunately we have experts for doing that...

Permanent Secretary appointed to lead the new EU unit in Cabinet Office

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/perm ... et-office

wasn't he the one that Vaz chucked out of the Select Committee cos he was essentially lying?

Good job people like him and Fox don't let past troubles bother them or stop them being considered for big jobs - dishonesty seems to be a job requisite for the Tories
Speaking of dishonesty, it didn't do much for my mental equilibrium to hear David Blunkett spouting about Jeremy Corbyn (and you know my feelings about Jeremy Corbyn).

It was David Blunkett who triggered my resignation (which was for cumulative reasons but he was the final straw) from the Labour Party after over 20 years of membership. I rejoined when Ed Miliband came to prominence.

I understand why you are not happy with Corbyn...a think a lot of us are crying out for a credible alternative candidate.

I find the intervention of Blanket, Blair and Straw to be concerning and lacking in self-awareness....do they still think they have an influence outside a rump of the PLP and certain lickspittle journalists

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:24 pm

One thing that really, really needs to happen is that these politicians of all varieties get out of Westminster for a while and spend some time with real people in their constituencies.

Even Blair made a pretence of going back to Sedgefield for inspiration and critique from his local party. Tom Watson should get up to West Bromwich and do some thinking there IMO.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:25 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Given we don't have a plan or even any prep work done, my worry is 2 years isn't long enough for such an unprecedented series of negotiations. I understand that there's uncertainty but there is anyway, and hurrying this too much could just make things even worse. Gut reaction rather than knowledge of such things admittedly.

it isn't and they won't be inclined to give us an extension since we had no plan for Brexit and there is a lot of politicking and posturing going on.........

The Leavers still seem to be fighting the old battles and purposely winding up the EU....

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:25 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:

wasn't he the one that Vaz chucked out of the Select Committee cos he was essentially lying?

Good job people like him and Fox don't let past troubles bother them or stop them being considered for big jobs - dishonesty seems to be a job requisite for the Tories
Speaking of dishonesty, it didn't do much for my mental equilibrium to hear David Blunkett spouting about Jeremy Corbyn (and you know my feelings about Jeremy Corbyn).

It was David Blunkett who triggered my resignation (which was for cumulative reasons but he was the final straw) from the Labour Party after over 20 years of membership. I rejoined when Ed Miliband came to prominence.

I understand why you are not happy with Corbyn...a think a lot of us are crying out for a credible alternative candidate.

I find the intervention of Blanket, Blair and Straw to be concerning and lacking in self-awareness....do they still think they have an influence outside a rump of the PLP and certain lickspittle journalists

Burnham possibly (but his campaign was SO awful). Could Cooper do some unity stuff? If not, there really is only Ed.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 29 Jun, 2016 9:26 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:One thing that really, really needs to happen is that these politicians of all varieties get out of Westminster for a while and spend some time with real people in their constituencies.

Even Blair made a pretence of going back to Sedgefield for inspiration and critique from his local party. Tom Watson should get up to West Bromwich and do some thinking there IMO.

wow that would be a novelty for West Bromwich - thinking going on!

Spoken as a native of Wolverhampton