FlyTheNest

thatchersorphan wrote:https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/ ... ter-brexit A VOTE OF CONFIDENCE IN JEREMY CORBYN AFTER BREXIT

For many working-class people, this was not a referendum on the EU. After all, very few of us know very much about it, apart from what the likes of the Daily Mail’s bananagate told us. The referendum, for most working-class people, has been a referendum on their lives today
Lisa McKenzie writes in https://www.timeshighereducation.com/bl ... ted-change" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah wrote:So some Brexit voters have discovered reality, and regret their vote. Strewth.

A referendum with two choices is not a good thing for democracy.
All the grey areas, and people with different visions, Lexit, Brexit etc all got lumped together under Leave.
As did the I'm happy with the EU as it is, I want closer ties, I want further changes, full union people under Remain.
All those people with different ideas, values, and political ideals got shovelled into two positions. In or Out. No wonder it is chaos.

If we will have learnt one thing from this unholy mess, surely it will be that binary choice votes are not good for democracy.

ohsocynical wrote:

Willow904 wrote:Join the single market on same terms as Norway. It's the only way. If they'll have us, of course. A change of government would help. I suspect much of Europe is pretty fed up of the current one by now.

It would have to be open borders if we did, so that wouldn't go down well And I don't think Norway thinks much of the deal.

citizenJA wrote:Tim Farron is a rude piece of work

tinyclanger2 wrote:aren't these the sorts of questions we should have been discussing before the vote?

Katy Lee ‏@kjalee 12m12 minutes ago

FFS. Parents just had to put up prices at their bike shop 10% because of the collapse in the pound. Remind me how this helps the little ppl?

ohsocynical wrote:

citizenJA wrote:Tim Farron is a rude piece of work

He's just had to pay damages for slander. Can't remember the name of the guy that sued him. It happened on the day Jo Cox was killed so didn't make the headlines.

Tim Farron, the Lib Dem leader, used a speech earlier today to launch a strong attack on Jeremy Corbyn’s conduct during the election campaign.

"With politicians of all parties working together, one of the things that stood out in this campaign, was Jeremy Corbyn’s bizarre refusal to share a platform in the face of the greatest challenge our country was faced in a generation.

I have stood alongside Gordon Brown, Harriet Harman, Chukka Umunna, Andy Burnham and Sadiq Khan.

Great progressive Labour politicians that I admire – forced to campaign with their hands tied behind their back because of short-sighted demands from their leader’s office.

Where was the leader of that party?

Even when the future of our country depended on him, he could not bring himself to reach across the aisle.

When the call went out for help, Jeremy Corbyn refused to answer.

The once-proud working class Labour vote has abandoned Corbyn in droves.

Great Labour cities have been driven into the arms of Ukip and Nigel Farage.

It is clearer than ever that Jermyn Corbyn has more concern for his own position in his own party, rather than his country."

Farron also urged people who wanted “a new modern breed of politics – liberal, hopeful, international, rational – driven by real British values” to join the Lib Dems.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/liv ... 3038109b19" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical wrote:

Katy Lee ‏@kjalee 12m12 minutes ago

FFS. Parents just had to put up prices at their bike shop 10% because of the collapse in the pound. Remind me how this helps the little ppl?

But, but, but, small shopkeepers were saying being in the EU hindered expansion and taking on more staff..

ohsocynical wrote:michael taylor ‏@michael33495998 15m15 minutes ago

@gabyhinsliff @smartysue as petrol set to rise by 2-3p next week because of fall in pound. This is just the start

citizenJA wrote:

ohsocynical wrote:

citizenJA wrote:Tim Farron is a rude piece of work

He's just had to pay damages for slander. Can't remember the name of the guy that sued him. It happened on the day Jo Cox was killed so didn't make the headlines.

Imam Suliman Gani

citizenJA wrote:

tinyclanger2 wrote:aren't these the sorts of questions we should have been discussing before the vote?

We did ask
devil of a time finding the answers
tracking down experts
derided for listening to them

citizenJA wrote:Tim Farron is a rude piece of work

tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/bus ... n-11520016?
aren't these the sorts of questions we should have been discussing before the vote?
[Wales had secured around £1.8bn European Structural Funds investment for up to 2020 from the European Union....Previously structural funds have been used for major infrastructure projects like the Parc Eirias redevelopment, Superfast Cymru, Anglesey Circuit, and Venue Cymru.]

TechnicalEphemera wrote:

citizenJA wrote:Tim Farron is a rude piece of work

But in this case entirely right (well apart from the Lib Dem bit at the end).

You only get to lose one election as Labour leader, Corbyn has lost his.

"...Jeremy Corbyn has more concern for his own position in his own party, rather than his country."

- Tim Farron

TechnicalEphemera wrote:

citizenJA wrote:Tim Farron is a rude piece of work

But in this case entirely right (well apart from the Lib Dem bit at the end).

You only get to lose one election as Labour leader, Corbyn has lost his.

ohsocynical wrote:The 38 degrees petition to support Corbyn, has already collected 56,000 signatures.

Willow904 wrote:

ohsocynical wrote:

Willow904 wrote:Join the single market on same terms as Norway. It's the only way. If they'll have us, of course. A change of government would help. I suspect much of Europe is pretty fed up of the current one by now.

It would have to be open borders if we did, so that wouldn't go down well And I don't think Norway thinks much of the deal.

We need immigration and the single market for the sake of the economy. And no, Norway doesn't think much of the deal but it's what their voters keep voting for. If you put representative democracy aside and ask voters what they want directly, don't be surprised if they make poor decisions. We have to honour the referendum and leave the EU, but we don't have to shoot ourselves in the foot. No one can say "that's not what people want for post EU" because no one's actually asked people what they want post EU. We should have a general election, really, but I somehow doubt that will happen.

TechnicalEphemera wrote:

citizenJA wrote:Tim Farron is a rude piece of work

But in this case entirely right (well apart from the Lib Dem bit at the end).

You only get to lose one election as Labour leader, Corbyn has lost his.

TechnicalEphemera wrote:

citizenJA wrote:Tim Farron is a rude piece of work

But in this case entirely right (well apart from the Lib Dem bit at the end).

You only get to lose one election as Labour leader, Corbyn has lost his.

TechnicalEphemera wrote:

Willow904 wrote:

ohsocynical wrote: It would have to be open borders if we did, so that wouldn't go down well And I don't think Norway thinks much of the deal.

We need immigration and the single market for the sake of the economy. And no, Norway doesn't think much of the deal but it's what their voters keep voting for. If you put representative democracy aside and ask voters what they want directly, don't be surprised if they make poor decisions. We have to honour the referendum and leave the EU, but we don't have to shoot ourselves in the foot. No one can say "that's not what people want for post EU" because no one's actually asked people what they want post EU. We should have a general election, really, but I somehow doubt that will happen.

I believe that Leave have ruled this option out, although polling (which isn't much use) suggests 70% of the population want it.

citizenJA wrote:

TechnicalEphemera wrote:

citizenJA wrote:Tim Farron is a rude piece of work

But in this case entirely right (well apart from the Lib Dem bit at the end).

You only get to lose one election as Labour leader, Corbyn has lost his.

Don't be silly

citizenJA wrote:

"...Jeremy Corbyn has more concern for his own position in his own party, rather than his country."

- Tim Farron

That's the last thing Corbyn is about, Farron, you miserable little man

yahyah wrote:Makes you proud to be British

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... &tid=ss_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA wrote:With respect,of course it depends at what level and relative but a 1.3 million margin isn't scraping over the line,many places barely reached a third of the voters for Remain.I don't view it as close.

yahyah wrote:

citizenJA wrote:

"...Jeremy Corbyn has more concern for his own position in his own party, rather than his country."

- Tim Farron

That's the last thing Corbyn is about, Farron, you miserable little man

Someone hiss Nick Clegg at him, please.

ohsocynical wrote:

yahyah wrote:Makes you proud to be British

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... &tid=ss_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's humiliating isn't it.

Maeght wrote:Dear UK centrists who voted for pragmatic, economy-friendly Cameron over crazy, dangerous Marxist Miliband last year...good call. Good call.

yahyah wrote:

citizenJA wrote:

tinyclanger2 wrote:aren't these the sorts of questions we should have been discussing before the vote?

We did ask
devil of a time finding the answers
tracking down experts
derided for listening to them

All we got if questions were asked was 17 million people squealing 'Project Fear' back.

Willow904 wrote:Morning all.

Thanks for all the comments last night, I've just about caught up. Bristol solid for "remain" as expected so, with a Bristol postcode, at least I don't have to feel like a fish out of water. No doubt Somerset was big for "leave", I haven't had time to check yet. Hating having Rees-Mogg as my MP more than ever right now.

I have lots to digest and may have some more thoughts later on, but my first concern is Northern Ireland. It seems to me the only way to avert complete disaster would be to join the single market like Norway and continue with the free movement of people. I know that's not what a lot of people thought they were voting for, but technically the referendum was exclusively on membership of the EU, not on the single market, not on immigration. Politically and economically it's the most sensible option. Recent history suggests it won't happen, but I can hope. The idea of having a hard border between Northern and the Republic of Ireland is just unthinkable.

daydreamer wrote:

Willow904 wrote:Morning all.

Thanks for all the comments last night, I've just about caught up. Bristol solid for "remain" as expected so, with a Bristol postcode, at least I don't have to feel like a fish out of water. No doubt Somerset was big for "leave", I haven't had time to check yet. Hating having Rees-Mogg as my MP more than ever right now.

I have lots to digest and may have some more thoughts later on, but my first concern is Northern Ireland. It seems to me the only way to avert complete disaster would be to join the single market like Norway and continue with the free movement of people. I know that's not what a lot of people thought they were voting for, but technically the referendum was exclusively on membership of the EU, not on the single market, not on immigration. Politically and economically it's the most sensible option. Recent history suggests it won't happen, but I can hope. The idea of having a hard border between Northern and the Republic of Ireland is just unthinkable.

I feel totally like a fish out of water.

tinyclanger2 wrote:https://twitter.com/hashtag/regrexit?re ... %5Ehashtag
#regrexit