Wednesday 28th September 2016

[HindleA]

Justice For Health Statement on verdict


http://www.justiceforhealth.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Judgement

https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/judgments/ ... nd-others/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SpinningHugo]

As I said, some will disagree with me

"Millions of lifelong Labour supporters voted to leave the EU and...voted for change on immigration."

Burnham just now in his speech.

The idea that Burnham, Andy Burnham!!!, is a man of high principle is really just not plausible at all.

Well, he's not wrong in those statements is he? A fair way removed from the deeply inflammatory stuff by Reeves yesterday.

Look at the context!

He is pandering in the most shameless way to the idea that immigration and the EU are to blame for poverty in parts of the country: the opposite of the truth.

Exactly the same, if less inflammatory, as Reeves.

Mr Principle?

Pfffft.

[yahyah]

Claims from a senior Plaid activist that Plaid Cymru received money from Gadaffi:
The party has no record of it.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/polit ... n-11947070" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Willow904]

Justice For Health Statement on verdict


http://www.justiceforhealth.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Judgement

https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/judgments/ ... nd-others/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hard to get my head around this. So Justice for Health took the Health Secretary to court for trying to impose a contract he had no powers to impose saying this was illegal and the Health Secretary's defence was that, despite saying on numerous occasions that he was going to impose the contract, he was never going to impose the contract because he had no power to do so and as such hadn't acted outside his power - and the BBC reports this as the Health Secretary "wins" and is vindicated in his "actions". Presumably because the Health Secretary took no actions, just threatened to even though he had no power to and admitted as such only when taken to court. He now wants Justice for Health to pay his costs. Jeremy Hunt has no shame.

[RogerOThornhill]

Justice For Health Statement on verdict


http://www.justiceforhealth.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Judgement

https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/judgments/ ... nd-others/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So in fact Hunt backed down from saying he was imposing the contract because he clearly has no legal right do any such thing.

How to make yourself look really foolish...tell everybody you're in charge...and then have to say in court "well actually I can't do that".

[Willow904]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The government has been forced by a senior judge to reveal secret legal arguments for refusing to let parliament decide when and how the UK should withdraw from the European Union.

[citizenJA]

Justice For Health Statement on verdict


http://www.justiceforhealth.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Judgement

https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/judgments/ ... nd-others/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So in fact Hunt backed down from saying he was imposing the contract because he clearly has no legal right do any such thing.

How to make yourself look really foolish...tell everybody you're in charge...and then have to say in court "well actually I can't do that".

Yes, but media owned by Tory government polish that for Junt so his climbdown gets transmuted into triumph.

[citizenJA]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... CMP=twt_gu

The government has been forced by a senior judge to reveal secret legal arguments for refusing to let parliament decide when and how the UK should withdraw from the European Union.

Thank goodness - I've been waiting for this one specifically.

[StephenDolan]

Justice For Health Statement on verdict


http://www.justiceforhealth.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Judgement

https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/judgments/ ... nd-others/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So in fact Hunt backed down from saying he was imposing the contract because he clearly has no legal right do any such thing.

How to make yourself look really foolish...tell everybody you're in charge...and then have to say in court "well actually I can't do that".

I'd like to see how the press are going to spin the junior doctors asking for a new deal and Hunt not imposing it.

[gilsey]

In rr2's absence, badger research which again will surprise few here.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 221250.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Big data analysis shows weak link between badgers and cattle for TB transmission
Date:
September 26, 2016
Source:
University of Queen Mary London
Summary:
The largest simulation to date of the numbers of cattle and badgers infected with tuberculosis (TB) casts serious doubts about the extent to which badgers cause TB in cattle, according to research.

[StephenDolan]

In rr2's absence, badger research which again will surprise few here.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 221250.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Big data analysis shows weak link between badgers and cattle for TB transmission
Date:
September 26, 2016
Source:
University of Queen Mary London
Summary:
The largest simulation to date of the numbers of cattle and badgers infected with tuberculosis (TB) casts serious doubts about the extent to which badgers cause TB in cattle, according to research.

Research. Blinking experts.
Anyone viewing the leadership speech btw?

[HindleA]

http://www.barnetlabour.org.uk/_fifty_o ... r_id=18380" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fifty one disabled Freedom Pass holders receive compensation as Conservative-run Barnet council apologises "unreservedly" for "distress" caused by Pass cancellations

[SpinningHugo]

Corbyn on live now!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcparliament" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Jez we can!"

Hall is ram packed!

[JonnyT1234]

"Millions of lifelong Labour supporters voted to leave the EU and...voted for change on immigration."

Burnham just now in his speech.

The idea that Burnham, Andy Burnham!!!, is a man of high principle is really just not plausible at all.

Well, he's not wrong in those statements is he? A fair way removed from the deeply inflammatory stuff by Reeves yesterday.

Look at the context!

He is pandering in the most shameless way to the idea that immigration and the EU are to blame for poverty in parts of the country: the opposite of the truth.

Exactly the same, if less inflammatory, as Reeves.

Mr Principle?

Pfffft.

Is anyone claiming Burnham is Mr Principled? Is anyone claiming he isn't anything other than a little bit dim? Is anyone claiming any of those straw men you are alluding too?

No. Has Burnham been (very remarkably for him) astute in the way he has behaved wrt to the leadership issue? Yes, absolutely he has. By staying above the fray, and on the right side of it, he's come out unblemished. Unlike all those really clever, really astute, know-it-alls [sic] that you so admire who have done nothing but greatly diminish themselves in practically everyone else's eyes. So not only have they managed to make someone as mediocre as Jeremy Corbyn look like a political giant relative to themselves, they've managed to make Andy Burnham look the same too. Corbyn? Burnham? Jesus fucking wept.

And these are the people you want to run the party? Erm, no thanks. If you can't take on and best those two then there is something seriously, seriously wrong with you.

Edit: correcting an inadvertent AutoWrong error.

[JonnyT1234]

Corbyn's speech (as reported by Sparrow) has been remarkably good so far. Just at the mayor electoral victories at the mo.

[JonnyT1234]

Is it just me or is Owen Smith doing the BSL-signing of the speech on the screen above Corbyn?

[AnatolyKasparov]

JC will never be a great speaker, but he has definitely improved. This is a perfectly decent effort so far.

[StephenDolan]

JC will never be a great speaker, but he has definitely improved. This is a perfectly decent effort so far.

How the Labour MPs react is critical.

[frightful_oik]

JC will never be a great speaker, but he has definitely improved. This is a perfectly decent effort so far.

How the Labour MPs react is critical.

I'd expect that.

[JonnyT1234]

Jesus, a politician saying what education is/should actually be about. Not just a mill to create job fodder but to learn something about yourself (and others) too. How long have we had to wait for a prominent Labour politician to say something like that? It's been decades as far as a I can remember.

[AnatolyKasparov]

JC will never be a great speaker, but he has definitely improved. This is a perfectly decent effort so far.

How the Labour MPs react is critical.

I'm hopeful many will react positively, it is mostly stuff they can unite around.

[StephenDolan]

Now if this can be repeated enough to enter the public consciousness.


"… It isn’t migrants that drive down wages … it’s exploitative employers … and the politicians who deregulate the labour market and rip up trade union rights."

[AnatolyKasparov]

JC will never be a great speaker, but he has definitely improved. This is a perfectly decent effort so far.

How the Labour MPs react is critical.

I'd expect that.

I saw what you did there

[SpinningHugo]

It is really quite dull. His delivery is better, he has got used to the autocue (no more 'strong message here"). But it is just a shopping list.

It will never be bright sunlit morning again.

[HindleA]

Patrick Butler on PRS eviction increase


https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AnatolyKasparov]

LOLOL apparently John McTernan stormed out after the audience loudly clapped and cheered his bit on the Iraq war

[StephenDolan]

LOLOL apparently John McTernan stormed out after the audience loudly clapped and cheered his bit on the Iraq war

Is this classed as trashing the Blair and Brown years, perhaps Tom Watson can let me know.

[SpinningHugo]

LOLOL apparently John McTernan stormed out after the audience loudly clapped and cheered his bit on the Iraq war

Is this classed as trashing the Blair and Brown years, perhaps Tom Watson can let me know.

He was quite careful not to trash New Labour this year. Iraq the only hint.

[SpinningHugo]

TBF, the section on immigration was a major improvement on Burnham. On that I am a hardline Corbynista.

No Brexit section essentially, much like the conference itself.

And no wife onstage at end. Another thing to praise.

[HindleA]

Debbie Abrahams on scrapping WCA etc from 2hrs 14m



http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07wm53q" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[StephenDolan]

TBF, the section on immigration was a major improvement on Burnham. On that I am a hardline Corbynista.

No Brexit section essentially, much like the conference itself.

And no wife onstage at end. Another thing to praise.

The immigration section reads well. Brexit is May's albatross. Labour should make her wear it.

[StephenDolan]

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1510537 ... rty-speech" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In full.

[AngryAsWell]

George Osborne's father-in-law repeats his ‘frack in North’ outburst

George Osborne’s father-in-law has urged that fracking should happen in “derelict” northern areas rather than trying to “bribe” communities in the South to accept it.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 68522.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[HindleA]

That's the problem in a nutshell. Tell the electorate just what you want to do and risk not getting elected, or do good stuff by stealth and it gets ignored even by some of Labour's own.

Brown was excellent on this,particuarly targeting policy that effected small numbers in particular circumstances,technical changes that made a massive difference to the poorest and sick/disabled.The difference since 2010 was instant on the basis of the dearth of knowledge and attention to detail.It is why the benefit cap,housing support"reform" etc broadbrush approach is not only senseless(beyond political machination)is fucking evil-deliberate targeting,rendering people-as in a letter I received from McVey what was our positon -insignificant-correct in statistical terms,but of course hardly felt if you lose your home by Governmental neglect.

[StephenDolan]

That's the problem in a nutshell. Tell the electorate just what you want to do and risk not getting elected, or do good stuff by stealth and it gets ignored even by some of Labour's own.

Brown was excellent on this,particuarly targeting policy that effected small numbers in particular circumstances,technical changes that made a massive difference to the poorest and sick/disabled.The difference since 2010 was instant on the basis of the dearth of knowledge and attention to detail.It is why the benefit cap,housing support"reform" etc broadbrush approach is not only senseless(beyond political machination)is fucking evil-deliberate targeting,rendering people-as in a letter I received from McVey what was our positon -insignificant-correct in statistical terms,but of course hardly felt if you lose your home by Governmental neglect.

Indeed. Slated since, but working tax credits were great at this.

[citizenJA]

Morning all.

Normal service returns in the papers I see. Behr piece is a shocker.

But what about here at FTN? How would you like things to be post conference?

All Labour MPs need find a way helping their current leader succeed and fulfilling their goal. All members focusing on the ultimate
goal helps prevent irrelevant differences paralysing effort. Knowledge and information relevant to work is shared with all members
without exception in a clear, consistent manner. Words and actions relevant to work are clear, honest and without guile. It saves
time and energy. Telling lies and keeping secrets is self-defeating in almost all lines of work. A spy needs to lie and tell secrets,
I guess, I don't really know, I've never been a spy.

I've worked for and with some real bastards and it usually worked out positively for us all. I wasn't an MP but I've worked
in a lot of different teams in many organisations. I'm curious about the job of a Labour MP. It likely has aspects I haven't
experienced anywhere. Some aspects of all work are universal because we're all human beings. All things human we
share in common.

[StephenDolan]

AK, one for you


John McTernan – ‏@johnmcternan

@jeremycorbyn attacks the private landlord who provide a vital service

[SpinningHugo]

Funny by Hyde, but harsh

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Temulkar]

Funny by Hyde, but harsh

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It really isn't funny at all, its bitter sniping and already disproven smears, poor rythym and timing, with no obvious punchline other than 'waaaaah he won again'. Marina demonstrating once again that satire, irony, pathos, and caricature are skills far beyond her ability. I love a good bit of humour, whoever it's directed at as long as its not abuse, but this is just whining and shrill.

If you think that's funny, read my book you will wet your knickers, and the protagonist is a 17th century blairite, so...

[Temulkar]

AK, one for you


John McTernan – ‏@johnmcternan

@jeremycorbyn attacks the private landlord who provide a vital service

I think the realisation is dawning on McTernan that he is yesterdays never was and now never will be.

[SpinningHugo]

Funny by Hyde, but harsh

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It really isn't funny at all, its bitter sniping and already disproven smears, poor rythym and timing, with no obvious punchline other than 'waaaaah he won again'. Marina demonstrating once again that satire, irony, pathos, and caricature are skills far beyond her ability. I love a good bit of humour, whoever it's directed at as long as its not abuse, but this is just whining and shrill.

If you think that's funny, read my book you will wet your knickers, and the protagonist is a 17th century blairite, so...

Each to their own.

I thought it very funny.

Labour *is* funny. Corbyn signing apples. "I don't think this is a good idea Seumas." Paul Mason's jackets. McDonnell's red book. TUSC members introducing the leader's speech.

Labour is ram packed with laughs.

Not so funny if you happen to be one of the people Labour should be winning elections to help of course, but it is brilliantly blackly funny in the abstract.

[HindleA]

It is atrocious lazilly written crap,not sure if it aspired to be anything else.

[Temulkar]

Funny by Hyde, but harsh

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It really isn't funny at all, its bitter sniping and already disproven smears, poor rythym and timing, with no obvious punchline other than 'waaaaah he won again'. Marina demonstrating once again that satire, irony, pathos, and caricature are skills far beyond her ability. I love a good bit of humour, whoever it's directed at as long as its not abuse, but this is just whining and shrill.

If you think that's funny, read my book you will wet your knickers, and the protagonist is a 17th century blairite, so...

Each to their own.

I thought it very funny.

Labour *is* funny. Corbyn signing apples. "I don't think this is a good idea Seumas." Paul Mason's jackets. McDonnell's red book. TUSC members introducing the leader's speech.

Labour is ram packed with laughs.

Not so funny if you happen to be one of the people Labour should be winning elections to help of course, but it is brilliantly blackly funny in the abstract.

Oh I agree there's been loads of humour, Owen Smith's face as the result was read out, Chamelon Kinnock in the local press going all UKIP - as if thats going to save him after the boundary changes. Its been absolutely hilarious watching Hunt and Chucka and Yvette scramble around to look relevant at something, as power, influence, and - what they desire most of all - attention seeps away from them. Yesterday's people already displaced by the rabble and trots they disdained so much in favour of a new generation. Clive Lewis, Angela Raynor Rebecca Long-Bailey showed the 'moderates just how indispensible they really are. Laughed? I nearly shat, I havent laughed so much since grandma died, or Aunty Mabel caught her left tit in the mangle.

[HindleA]

From Benefits and Work

"It’s been a thorn in the side of the DWP for many years.

Whenever they try to argue that disability and incapacity benefit assessments are fair, someone will always ask why, in that case, are so many decisions overturned at appeal?

The introduction of the mandatory reconsideration before appeal system was intended to bring tribunal success rates for claimants crashing down.

It didn’t.

In fact, only this month the Scottish government pointed out that:

“It is absolutely staggering that 65% of people who dispute their PIP award are successful in their appeal of that decision.”

But now, the government have a plan that may well succeed.

A new online system for appeals is to be introduced, along with more decisions being made “on the papers” and the ditching of medical and disability members from most panels. The result is likely to be a significant and sustained fall in both the volume of appeals and the success rate for claimants.

Case officer says ‘No’
Under the new system, some matters that are currently decided by judges will be dealt with by ‘case officers’ instead. This could mean clerks deciding whether your appeal is in time, for example, or whether your appeal will be held online, in person or “on the papers”.

More decisions “on the papers”
The government’s intention is that:

“Where a case is relatively straightforward or routine, representations will be made online in writing for a judge to consider outside of a traditional court room, without the need for a physical hearing, meaning a more convenient experience for everyone involved.”

What is really “convenient” for the DWP about this is that the success rates for paper hearings are drastically lower than for appeals where you appear in person.

At the moment claimants get to choose whether they want to appear before a panel or just submit written evidence. In the future it will be a clerk or a judge who makes that choice for you.

More virtual hearings
Even if you manage to avoid a paper hearing, the chances of having your appeal in the same room as the tribunal judge are very slim indeed.

“Where a judge needs to listen to the parties make their arguments, it will be possible in many cases to hold the hearings over telephone or video conference, without the need for the parties to travel to a court building. There will still be an important place for physical court hearings for criminal trials and other serious or complex cases, but where they are appropriate, virtual hearings offer an easy and convenient alternative for everybody.”

For some claimants, removing the stress and pain involved in travelling to a hearing will be an enormous advantage. But for others, the sheer strangeness of an online exchange – and all the technical problems it may involve – will make it very hard for them to give detailed and persuasive evidence.

More haggling
Many claimants may not even get as far as a hearing, whether online or on the papers, even after lodging an appeal. The government says:

“In appropriate cases, we will encourage parties to settle their disputes themselves, without the intervention of the courts.”

The real fear here is that the DWP will effectively be able to bully claimants into accepting a lower award than they believe they are entitled to, in order to avoid the risk and emotional trauma of an appeal.

Fewer panel members
The government also plans to “streamline” the appeals system by making much less use of additional panel members.

“In the First-tier Tribunal (Social Security and Child Support), for example, many cases must be heard by a judge, a medical member and a member with experience of providing or receiving care for disability, regardless of the circumstances of the case in question.”

What this means in practice is that most appeals will be heard by retired solicitors sitting alone, with no-one with specialist medical knowledge, or specialist knowledge of disability issues more generally to assist them.

We’ll leave it to you to decide whether this is likely to lead to a rise in the success rates for claimants at benefits appeals.

The government are consulting on the changes until 27 October, though few will expect them to take any notice of the responses they receive.



Consultation
https://consult.justice.gov.uk/digital- ... -tribunals" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[JonnyT1234]

But, apparently, having the leader of the opposition say that Labour will actually abolish the WCA is - quote - "a shopping list" and "boring".

They just still can't get it, can they. How something is said is not all that matters to the people listening, unless you're someone obsessed with presentation over content.

[HindleA]

Far more than just abolishing,intention is more widespread than that.It is rekindling what used to be the desired aim.Usurp previous Governments bastardisation and appropriation to misanthropic ends,genuinely consult with the real experts,rather than fucking ignore,in cooperative spirit,take care with language,and a beginning can be made to attend to the created chaos.

[citizenJA]

The government are consulting on the changes until 27 October, though few will expect them to take any notice of the responses they receive.

Consultation
https://consult.justice.gov.uk/digital- ... -tribunals" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(cJA edit)

Transforming our justice system...

The justice system in England and Wales is internationally revered as one of the finest in the world; our strong and independent
judiciary, world-class legal profession and adherence to the rule of law are the basis of a civilized society and strong economy.

The Government is investing over £700m in the courts and tribunals and more than £270m in the criminal justice system,
a sign of our commitment to building on our strengths and maintaining our international reputation. The world is moving
on and our justice system must keep up to meet the changing needs and expectations of everyone who uses our courts
and tribunals.

Government is investing in justice to protect a reputation
It's better investing in justice to protect people

[SpinningHugo]

But, apparently, having the leader of the opposition say that Labour will actually abolish the WCA is - quote - "a shopping list" and "boring".

They just still can't get it, can they. How something is said is not all that matters to the people listening, unless you're someone obsessed with presentation over content.

Unfortunately of course, Labour won't actually do that.

Do you need me to explain why not?

As a result it is a bit hard to get too excited.

[RogerOThornhill]

Advance warning...I haven't seen QT for a while and tomorrow's panel really does not make me think about wanting to tune in.

David Dimbleby presents topical debate from Boston, Lincolnshire. On the panel are Conservative international development secretary Priti Patel MP, Labour's shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry MP, Ukip's Steven Woolfe MEP, playwright and novelist Bonnie Greer and Sun and Spectator columnist Rod Liddle.

[RogerOThornhill]

Advance warning...I haven't seen QT for a while and tomorrow's panel really does not make me think about wanting to tune in.

David Dimbleby presents topical debate from Boston, Lincolnshire. On the panel are Conservative international development secretary Priti Patel MP, Labour's shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry MP, Ukip's Steven Woolfe MEP, playwright and novelist Bonnie Greer and Sun and Spectator columnist Rod Liddle.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;