Saurday 8th & Sunday 9th October 2016

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 2:27 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:OK, time for football.

Hopefully when I return we'll have moved on from revisiting 2003 and come back into the present day...

I wish I loved football.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 2:52 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:OK, time for football.

Hopefully when I return we'll have moved on from revisiting 2003 and come back into the present day...

Rugby for me. Hopefully Bristol can get their first win of the season.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 4:05 pm

Roger's lucky. International break for the Championship. Excuse me while I stifle a yawn.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 4:07 pm

I'm glad friends are here. News depressing as hell.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 4:19 pm

This is the point of no return for Donald Trump
Richard Wolffe

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ng-apology" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 4:36 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -tenements" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

John Cleese has shown his ignorance about poor people, bad housing and modern life
Ian Jack

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 4:39 pm

iPhone/safari malfunction

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 4:43 pm

I play in a supposedly "walking "version for the over 50's,I keep getting sent off for speeding.

I jest.

thatchersorphan · Post by **thatchersorphan** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 4:54 pm

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKTPks ... 5OdjA/live" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Another Europe is Possible: Brexit Britain: What went wrong and what next?
First section was 'Making sense of Britain’s EU referendum' with Owen Jones, author, Ash Sarkar, Novara Media, Zoe Gardner, Another Europe, Yanis Varoufakis, DiEM

Just come across this, as its about to finish, but it should be archived to watch later

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 5:06 pm

Personal Independence Payments, a Peer and Paralympian

By Bernadette Meaden

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/23479" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

thatchersorphan · Post by **thatchersorphan** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 5:25 pm

The open democracy link isnt working now its down but " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; seems to be a working archive of the afternoon

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 5:45 pm

An American woman(anti-Trump political commentatorwhose name escapes me) on BBC TV news has opined that the latest revelations don't appear to be doing him (Trump) much damage so far. She seemed depressed. I am too, after hearing her.

Edited to tidy up a real pig's ear of a sentence

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 5:55 pm

Not sure what such an instant assessment is based on, tbh?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 5:58 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Not sure what such an instant assessment is based on, tbh?

General world-weariness, I suspect. That and the polls in Ohio.

Post by **adam** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 5:58 pm

PorFavor wrote:An American woman (anti-Trump political commentator whose name escapes me) on BBC TV news has opined that the latest revelations don't appear to be doing him (Trump) much damage so far. She seemed depressed. I am too, after hearing her.

I recommend 270 to win, especially the simulator.

I am aware of my views of polling before the last general election and I do have a residual belief that everything is awful and people are terrible and nothing can be trusted. However...

* If you look at the main page and pull up the actual result from 2012, Trump needs a net 'gain' of 64 electoral college votes compared to Romney's performance last time. He has been briefly ahead in Ohio and Iowa but otherwise has failed to develop a lead in any of the states he needs to win.
* If you look at the summary page of the simulator then, whilst this is all just play, it has been slowly drifting towards Clinton (from a starting point in the high 80%'s of likelihood of winning up to over 90% now, before this latest nonsense).
* It seems more likely, at the moment, that Clinton will make some gains. On the night, two of the first states to call will be North Carolina and Georgia, both won by Romney last time. If she wins either of them, that's just about it. Things have to go right for Trump just about everywhere. [Edited to add - if she loses them then Trump is just standing still. Florida/Ohio/Pensylvania/Wisnconsin/Michigan/Minnesota. He's behind in all of them again at the moment]

* Please bear in mind that I was the person who said that there was no route for the conservatives to win here last time.

Post by **adam** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 5:58 pm

PorFavor wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Not sure what such an instant assessment is based on, tbh?

General world-weariness, I suspect. That and the polls in Ohio.

The polls in Ohio have been moving back in Clinton's direction.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 6:01 pm

On which topic, the GOP senatorial candidate in NH has apparently said she will not be voting for Trump.

Post by **adam** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 6:05 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:On which topic, the GOP senatorial candidate in NH has apparently said she will not be voting for Trump.

She says she's going to vote a write-in for Pense.

The biggest worry I have about Trump's behaviour is that he will actually bugger off and the GOP's new ticket will get a bounce. It seems very unlikely but you never know.

I'd add, in all of this, that Wikileaks put out what they claim are transcripts of Clinton's much whispered about speeches to Wall Street and they seem to be full of nothing at all bad and a few things that are almost good.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 6:07 pm

citizenJA wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:I think Thornberry is decent, "that tweet" aside. She is normally a good media performer (despite that spat with Murnaghan, who arguably deserves it anyway)
Miliband's reprimand and Thornberry's prompt acknowledgement and resignation from her cabinet position following
her inappropriate tweet were judiciously handled. How someone handles their mistakes adds insight into their character.

There was nothing inappropriate about it at all. And Miliband was a coward for not standing up for her during a tabloid witch hunt. Particularly as it was an ideal opportunity to turn the tables on them and neuter their attacks on Labour.

Post by **adam** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 6:11 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:I think Thornberry is decent, "that tweet" aside. She is normally a good media performer (despite that spat with Murnaghan, who arguably deserves it anyway)
Miliband's reprimand and Thornberry's prompt acknowledgement and resignation from her cabinet position following
her inappropriate tweet were judiciously handled. How someone handles their mistakes adds insight into their character.
There was nothing inappropriate about it at all. And Miliband was a coward for not standing up for her during a tabloid witch hunt. Particularly as it was an ideal opportunity to turn the tables on them and neuter their attacks on Labour.

I have occasionally said on CiF (and got loudly ridiculed about) that 'that tweet' said 'Today in Rochester' with the picture, on the day of the by-election, and that I read it as 'we used to assume a household like this would be voting labour, can we be asssuming that now', and that if you saw the tweet and thought it said 'look at the fucking chavs' then it said more about you than about Thornberry. I stand by that assessment.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 6:13 pm

It was one tweet in a series of photos documenting her day in the area. She grew up on an estate like it. Ffs, the 'snobbery' was the interp that was put on it by the Sun. It was a perfect opportunity for Labour to go on the attack against them and Miliband bottled it.

Post by **adam** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 6:15 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:It was a perfect opportunity for Labour to go on the attack against them and Miliband bottled it.

Sadly I agree.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 6:22 pm

citizenJA wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:OK, time for football.

Hopefully when I return we'll have moved on from revisiting 2003 and come back into the present day...
I wish I loved football.

If the result was that became an Orient supporter you'd definitely not think that.

20th in what was Division 4. Dire.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 6:23 pm

Ukip is making Britain look like a basket case at the precise moment our image matters most - The Telegraph
https://apple.news/A2CsipQKJSlOxblHA5R6vEw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yeah. Having people like Boris Johnson and Liam Fox representing us abroad is the pinnacle of savviness when our image matters most. The Telegraph used to be a good paper once. What happened to it and the Guardian? Why have they plummeted so low, so fast?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 6:23 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:I think Thornberry is decent, "that tweet" aside. She is normally a good media performer (despite that spat with Murnaghan, who arguably deserves it anyway)
Miliband's reprimand and Thornberry's prompt acknowledgement and resignation from her cabinet position following
her inappropriate tweet were judiciously handled. How someone handles their mistakes adds insight into their character.
There was nothing inappropriate about it at all. And Miliband was a coward for not standing up for her during a tabloid witch hunt. Particularly as it was an ideal opportunity to turn the tables on them and neuter their attacks on Labour.

I wasn't offended by Thornberry's tweets. I understood how the images and text could be misconstrued. My respect for Thornberry
and Miliband was untarnished by the entire episode.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 6:26 pm

Labour vote would sink even further if Tony Blair returned as leader, poll finds - The Independent
https://apple.news/AWTOvziE-SzKRgvxTgHASIQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Unity candidate.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 6:31 pm

citizenJA wrote:I wasn't offended by Thornberry's tweets. I understood how the images and text could be misconstrued. My respect for Thornberry
and Miliband was untarnished by the entire episode.

By not standing against it, she's now damaged goods for the rest of her career as 'that middle class snob who sneers at the white, working classes'. It was a catastrophically stupid move not to go on the attack with it. I never did respect Miliband for his near complete lack of media savviness but this was a real low point for me in his leadership. That isn't to say he didn't have his moments (standing up to Murdoch being the best of them) but this was a wide open goal and he fluffed it.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 6:32 pm

adam wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:On which topic, the GOP senatorial candidate in NH has apparently said she will not be voting for Trump.
She says she's going to vote a write-in for Pense.

The biggest worry I have about Trump's behaviour is that he will actually bugger off and the GOP's new ticket will get a bounce. It seems very unlikely but you never know.

I'd add, in all of this, that Wikileaks put out what they claim are transcripts of Clinton's much whispered about speeches to Wall Street and they seem to be full of nothing at all bad and a few things that are almost good.

I was just thinking about the downside to Trump withdrawing, too. I think it's probably better that he stays put, all in all.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 6:34 pm

.In '97 there was barely a house,here, without a Labour poster and/or Chesterfield football poster/flag/scarf in the run up to the election/dubious referee decision to deny Cup final place.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 6:43 pm

Miliband was put under terrific pressure to sack EH by the types who are urging Labour to out-UKIP UKIP on immigrants now.

In retrospect, it was one of the first signs of what was coming.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 6:47 pm

My knowledge is limited but from what I gather,not that easy for someone else to stand, some people have already voted for one thing.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 6:47 pm

Stephen Woolfe not giving up.
It seemed as if he was acquiescing to help get the story out of the headlines, but apparently not.

Radio 4 reported something about his injuries not being consistent with a fall or seizure, but didn't hear who claimed that.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10 ... ked-by-pa/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 6:55 pm

HindleA wrote:My knowledge is limited but from what I gather,not that easy for someone else to stand, some people have already voted for one thing.

Yes, the first "advance" ballots were cast earlier this week or something.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 6:56 pm

Reports that the Republican National Committee are looking at options to replace Trump.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 7:03 pm

May’s Government Facing Split Over Plan to Name Foreign Workers

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... r-business" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 7:07 pm

Jay Beecher
‏@Jay_Beecher
Today,due to corruption & unchallenged racism in UKIP,I've decided to leave the party.Full statement to follow.More truths on their way.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 7:08 pm

Emily Thornberry's tweet pictured someone's private residence with the number plate of their van clearly visible without their permission. It was an invasion of privacy, showing a certain lack of common sense. The media reaction was overblown for sure, completely out of proportion, but the person who owned the house was unhappy about it and that, essentially, is why she had no choice but to resign. The fact that she has soon returned to the front bench with little comment underlines the fact that it was a minor mistake, soon forgotten. To suggest Ed Miliband should have defended her as if she had done nothing wrong, when she had, however minor, is unfair. If the owner of the house could not have been so readily identified from the photo or hadn't objected to its use she wouldn't have been in such a delicate position and could have defended herself against the unfair interpretation of her message more robustly, but that was not the case.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 7:14 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37040360" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

US election: Could Republicans still dump Donald Trump?

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 7:22 pm

Speaking of how dismal the Telegraph has become, Christopher Booker stepping up to the plate to show by exactly how much. What a tremendous bellend he is.

The Guardian's '100 months to save the planet' was always just a fantasy - The Telegraph
https://apple.news/A7kIUZm69TyinYBJpSEeOjQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Choice quote:

Far from the ice caps melting, the total amount of polar ice in the world is almost exactly the same in today’s Arctic and Antarctic as it was when satellite records began in 1979

'No change' in the Arctic (and this is just the extent, not the total mass)

'No change' in Antarctica:

'No change' in the Greenland ice sheet:

Fuck liars like Christopher Booker and the newspapers who let them print their lies.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 7:28 pm

Willow904 wrote:Emily Thornberry's tweet pictured someone's private residence with the number plate of their van clearly visible without their permission. It was an invasion of privacy, showing a certain lack of common sense. The media reaction was overblown for sure, completely out of proportion, but the person who owned the house was unhappy about it and that, essentially, is why she had no choice but to resign. The fact that she has soon returned to the front bench with little comment underlines the fact that it was a minor mistake, soon forgotten. To suggest Ed Miliband should have defended her as if she had done nothing wrong, when she had, however minor, is unfair. If the owner of the house could not have been so readily identified from the photo or hadn't objected to its use she wouldn't have been in such a delicate position and could have defended herself against the unfair interpretation of her message more robustly, but that was not the case.

You have no right to privacy when what is on show is visible in a public place. None. There is nothing to stop anyone taking a photo of any house in the country and sharing it publicly, unless the taking of that photo required the photographer to commit trespass.

That is a completely bogus argument. If the Sun published that photo (a clear breach of copyright by the way) with the location and number plate clearly visible then it was they who were in the wrong, not Thornberry.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 7:42 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:
Willow904 wrote:Emily Thornberry's tweet pictured someone's private residence with the number plate of their van clearly visible without their permission. It was an invasion of privacy, showing a certain lack of common sense. The media reaction was overblown for sure, completely out of proportion, but the person who owned the house was unhappy about it and that, essentially, is why she had no choice but to resign. The fact that she has soon returned to the front bench with little comment underlines the fact that it was a minor mistake, soon forgotten. To suggest Ed Miliband should have defended her as if she had done nothing wrong, when she had, however minor, is unfair. If the owner of the house could not have been so readily identified from the photo or hadn't objected to its use she wouldn't have been in such a delicate position and could have defended herself against the unfair interpretation of her message more robustly, but that was not the case.
You have no right to privacy when what is on show is visible in a public place. None. There is nothing to stop anyone taking a photo of any house in the country and sharing it publicly, unless the taking of that photo required the photographer to commit trespass.

That is a completely bogus argument. If the Sun published that photo (a clear breach of copyright by the way) with the location and number plate clearly visible then it was they who were in the wrong, not Thornberry.

Disagree with you here.

Willow wasn't framing it as a legal argument. Common sense (and courtesy, I would suggest) were the issues.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 7:56 pm

The Hillary Clinton\Donald Trump debate is being shown at 1.35am on Channel 4 tomorrow (or maybe that should be the day after tomorrow). Sunday night\Monday morning, at any rate.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 8:01 pm

Aaron Bastani ‏@AaronBastani 1h1 hour ago
Was told last week Corbyn had pulled out after politics surrounding SWP and sexual assault made clear to him. Him changing mind puzzling.

Aaron Bastani
‏@AaronBastani
People asking if I've been 'hacked'. Nope. Id just like the left to have integrity and take sexual assault seriously.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

?Any ideas?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 8:05 pm

Re last - probably to do with this I would think
Jeremy Corbyn heckled by activists at Stop the War Coalition event in central London

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 64371.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 8:09 pm

Gardener smashes UK pumpkin record

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-37595985" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 8:12 pm

British Pound 1 GBP = 1.11012 EUR

jeepers

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 8:13 pm

it's dropping some more

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 8:15 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Gardener smashes UK pumpkin record

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-37595985" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's a lot of pie. Anyone have a good pastry recipe?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 8:20 pm

citizenJA wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Gardener smashes UK pumpkin record

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-37595985" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That's a lot of pie. Anyone have a good pastry recipe?

I've never had pumpkin pie, but this looks nice

http://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/7733 ... aple-cream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 08 Oct, 2016 8:27 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Gardener smashes UK pumpkin record

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-37595985" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That's a lot of pie. Anyone have a good pastry recipe?
I've never had pumpkin pie, but this looks nice

http://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/7733 ... aple-cream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

oh yeah
pumpkin pie treats, flythenesters!