Friday 27th January 2017

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:04 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... s-scotland" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Scottish government pushed on which projects will bear brunt of £900m loss
MSPs challenge government to provide full and comprehensive analysis of impact after EU spending rules were breached

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:05 pm

And I know we're supposed think what a difficult decision it is for the leadership. Maybe it is. Then you think, hmmm, "elites", "populist relaunch".

How difficult?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:05 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... gland-2016" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hospitals cancelled record number of urgent operations last year
A total of 4,093 urgent procedures were scrapped in England in 2016 as staff shortages and lack of beds took toll

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:06 pm

Anyway, I don't want Corbyn to vote against article 50 half as much as I want him to say he believes the UK would be better off staying in the single market (EEA) and that he's going to fight to keep us in.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:08 pm

Temulkar wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
I'll take my chance with mustering a dozen Tory rebels.
Good luck with that.

And even if you get them, leaving aside the DUP some LibDem and Labour MPs would defy any whip to vote A50 down.

Its a complete non starter in short, and those of us who want to prevent a hard Brexit should start to consider other tactics.
Considering other tactics is beyond most of them. They have learned nothing from brexiit nothing from trump, nothing from corbyn being re-elected. If, god forbid, Le Pen gets elected in France, I hope to they start learning then.As for Theresa May, what is it about tory prie ministeers that they want to appease fascists. She could end up goibg down as chamberlain - or worse mussolini if she is determined to play Italy's usual role in the upcoming apocolypse.

Other tactics, like opposing, yeah.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:10 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/housing-net ... -bill-cash" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Homelessness reduction bill: a small step in the right direction
Dawn Foster

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:14 pm

Temulkar wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Yeah, get lost with this "elites" stuff for Remainers.

Next time Abbott mentions poverty in Hackney, the Tories should tell her there can't be much, with its 78-22 vote for Remain. Must be crawling with elites, they can fix the poverty with their spare change.

Come to think of it, 46.3% voted to Remain in Rhondda Cwm Taf. I've not yet noticed this colony of elitists when I've been there. Maybe they all live near Owen Smith.
It's Rhondda Cynon Taff not cwm taf - not sure how well you can claim to know a place if you can't get the name right.

Woo, spelling mistake. That's always a decisive argument, isn't it? I find Welsh names difficult to remember.

Didn't claim to know it well anyway. I claimed that it didn't have 46.3% of an "elite" in it. I've been to a few places in it- Aberdare, Hirwaun, Pontypridd, Mountain Ash- off the top of my head. Maybe the elites were living around the next corner.

But you knew the point anyway.

Tell me, how's that Lexit of yours going?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:16 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
I'll take my chance with mustering a dozen Tory rebels.
Good luck with that.

And even if you get them, leaving aside the DUP some LibDem and Labour MPs would defy any whip to vote A50 down.

Its a complete non starter in short, and those of us who want to prevent a hard Brexit should start to consider other tactics.

I was talking about the ECHR there, not Article 50.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:18 pm

Willow904 wrote:Anyway, I don't want Corbyn to vote against article 50 half as much as I want him to say he believes the UK would be better off staying in the single market (EEA) and that he's going to fight to keep us in.

Yeah, exactly.

What's the Professor's view on this? Or does he only pick up spelling mistakes and grand historical narrative?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:22 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Temulkar wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Yeah, get lost with this "elites" stuff for Remainers.

Next time Abbott mentions poverty in Hackney, the Tories should tell her there can't be much, with its 78-22 vote for Remain. Must be crawling with elites, they can fix the poverty with their spare change.

Come to think of it, 46.3% voted to Remain in Rhondda Cwm Taf. I've not yet noticed this colony of elitists when I've been there. Maybe they all live near Owen Smith.
It's Rhondda Cynon Taff not cwm taf - not sure how well you can claim to know a place if you can't get the name right.

Woo, spelling mistake. That's always a decisive argument, isn't it? I find Welsh names difficult to remember.

Didn't claim to know it well anyway. I claimed that it didn't have 46.3% of an "elite" in it. I've been to a few places in it- Aberdare, Hirwaun, Pontypridd, Mountain Ash- off the top of my head. Maybe the elites were living around the next corner.

But you knew the point anyway.

Tell me, how's that Lexit of yours going?

You weren't even that far off Tubs.
Cym Taf is the name of the Health Board that covers hospitals etc in Rhondda and other towns in that area.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:23 pm

It's all Welsh to me.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:24 pm

That was self deprecation to be clear.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:24 pm

HindleA wrote:It's all Welsh to me.

Badum tish!

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:25 pm

Just catching up on yesterday's news. Only heard about Tulip's decision this morning as was out most of yesterday.

So JC did mean a three line whip, not a gentle ask.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:26 pm

HindleA wrote:That was self deprecation to be clear.

The fact that you felt you had to say that shows what a sorry state of affairs we're at here.

Jo Stevens now.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:28 pm

Jo Stevens ?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:30 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
HindleA wrote:That was self deprecation to be clear.
The fact that you felt you had to say that shows what a sorry state of affairs we're at here.

Jo Stevens now.

I don't think anybody would have taken it wrongly.

I'm relieved to see from Yah Yah there's an honourable reason for me getting it wrong.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:32 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... s-scotland

Scottish government pushed on which projects will bear brunt of £900m loss
MSPs challenge government to provide full and comprehensive analysis of impact after EU spending rules were breached

Note this:

Their demand follows an investigation by the Guardian that revealed the Scottish government would lose up to £932m of the money it had for new schools, roads and hospitals because it had wrongly believed a major new privately financed building programme it had championed would not affect its spending powers.

Glad they stopped all that Labour private finance nonsense.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:34 pm

yahyah wrote:Jo Stevens ?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... le-50-vote" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:34 pm

Jo Stevens represents Cardiff Central, strong Remain area.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:40 pm

yahyah wrote:@willow

Good post. Your point about people like Abbott fetishing a referendum result, that's what worries. It leaves a huge opportunity for the right to exploit it. There may be pressure for other votes so we can let 'the people' speak on other issues. How could Labour argue against a government implementing awful policies if the people 'speak' and say they want them in a referendum vote ?

Abbott use of 'elites' grated with me too. She sounded patronising to voters in the Labour vulnerable areas.

Well done Tulip Siddiq.

Abbott patronising - there must be some mishtake.....

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:43 pm

Thanks for the reminder about Holocaust memorial day ParrotKeeper.

Wales' First Minister Carwyn Jones is jointly hosting a national service in Cardiff today.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:48 pm

Abbott is an expert in it,to be fair,she managed to patronise me in less than ten words in a twitter response.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:48 pm

Thanks Hindle. Have read the link now.

I thought it meant she was offended by the ''sorry state of affairs we're at here''

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:49 pm

On assumption it was her.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:53 pm

Kate McCannVerified account
‏@KateEMcCann

SNP Article50 amendment: "Failure to approve the terms of exit for the UK will result in the maintenance of UK membership on existing terms"

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:54 pm

Soz.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:56 pm

Have only seen a quick clip of the Ed M appearance on Newsnight but nice to see him on good form.
Hard not to think 'what if ?'.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:57 pm

https://twitter.com/JoStevensLabour?ref ... r%5Eauthor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jo Stevens' letter.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:59 pm

CNNVerified account
‏@CNN
Madeleine Albright: "I stand ready to register as Muslim" if Trump takes executive action that affects immigrants http://cnn.it/2jDBmDX" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 2:59 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Soz.

Has she resigned too

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 3:00 pm

Has this been done before?

http://search.electoralcommission.org.u ... s/C0245093" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looks very much like Labour Leave donating to UKIP.

This has to be serious trouble, surely?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 3:01 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... wholesaler" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tesco to buy Budgens and Londis owner Booker in £3.7bn deal
Supermarket giant’s takeover of wholesaler could cause competition concerns and led to resignation of independent director

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 3:02 pm

Pk mentioned it,yesterday.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 3:03 pm

Who's replacing Jo Stevens? Dr Eoin Clarke?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 3:04 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Has this been done before?

http://search.electoralcommission.org.u ... s/C0245093" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looks very much like Labour Leave donating to UKIP.

This has to be serious trouble, surely?

Saw that earlier. Is that why Anatoly called Labour Leave something very negative ?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 3:06 pm

TRUMP WANTS A ‘TRADE DEAL’ WITH THE UK THAT HE CAN CANCEL IN 30 DAYS. WHAT A JOKE

https://politicalscrapbook.net/2017/01/ ... at-a-joke/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 3:10 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... zona-tribe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

'Over my dead body': tribe aims to block Trump's border wall on Arizona land
Controlling 2.8m acres of a reservation, the Tohono O’odham Nation vowed to oppose construction on its land and called for a meeting with the president

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 3:11 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ters-media" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Macomb v media: voters who read little news think Trump had a great first week
In a Michigan county that helped get Donald Trump elected, people are actively choosing to ignore news they don’t want to hear – or not receiving news at all

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 3:12 pm

yahyah wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Has this been done before?

http://search.electoralcommission.org.u ... s/C0245093" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looks very much like Labour Leave donating to UKIP.

This has to be serious trouble, surely?
Saw that earlier. Is that why Anatoly called Labour Leave something very negative ?

They're appalling even if this isn't true. Whatever word he used probably won't be too strong.

They have horrible anti-immigration hardcore in them, plus the odd naive lefty. Kelvin Hopkins was with them. If you see him going in the Shadow Cabinet, be very afraid. He suggested scrapping HS2, and restoring the Great Central at a cost of £6bn, and fewer environmental impacts. Environmental impacts like knocking down all the development that's happened on the route, one might think.

On the positive side, Hopkins inadvertently led Andrew Gilligan a merry dance with this "Labour could block HS2" stuff.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 3:24 pm

Thanks, didn't know much about them. Gisela Stuart was enough for me.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 3:27 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Who's replacing Jo Stevens? Dr Eoin Clarke?

Yes.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 3:29 pm

yahyah wrote:@willow

Good post. Your point about people like Abbott fetishing a referendum result, that's what worries. It leaves a huge opportunity for the right to exploit it. There may be pressure for other votes so we can let 'the people' speak on other issues. How could Labour argue against a government implementing awful policies if the people 'speak' and say they want them in a referendum vote ?

Abbott use of 'elites' grated with me too. She sounded patronising to voters in the Labour vulnerable areas.

Well done Tulip Siddiq.

I agree with this.

But the root of the mess, as I see it, is the asking of a binary question on a subject that most (I'm guessing) folk feel massively ambivalent about.

There wasn't a place to say "I'm not entirely happy with how the EU is working, but I suspect leaving is a bad idea", or "I think we should leave the EU but consider what aspects of the EU we might be able to stay part of".

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 3:30 pm

yahyah wrote:Have only seen a quick clip of the Ed M appearance on Newsnight but nice to see him on good form.
Hard not to think 'what if ?'.

You missed the bit where he said he supported Corbyn's 3 line whip then?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 3:30 pm

http://linkis.com/Te7IT" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Donald Trump is building his wall on the Mexico border as undocumented crossing reaches a 40-year low

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 3:31 pm

Ha ha ha.

Éoin ‏@LabourEoin 45m45 minutes ago
More
4 wks before 2 By-Elections in heavily pro-Brexit seats, 2 Labour Shadow Ministers resign. Labour is being sunk without trace by Metro Elite

Cardiff is now Metro Elite?

And of course, people in Stoke and Copeland would never understand that the two resigners represent heavily pro-Remain areas, would they?

Even if populism yields some short term benefits, it treats people as idiots.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 3:37 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
yahyah wrote:@willow

Good post. Your point about people like Abbott fetishing a referendum result, that's what worries. It leaves a huge opportunity for the right to exploit it. There may be pressure for other votes so we can let 'the people' speak on other issues. How could Labour argue against a government implementing awful policies if the people 'speak' and say they want them in a referendum vote ?

Abbott use of 'elites' grated with me too. She sounded patronising to voters in the Labour vulnerable areas.

Well done Tulip Siddiq.
I agree with this.

But the root of the mess, as I see it, is the asking of a binary question on a subject that most (I'm guessing) folk feel massively ambivalent about.

There wasn't a place to say "I'm not entirely happy with how the EU is working, but I suspect leaving is a bad idea", or "I think we should leave the EU but consider what aspects of the EU we might be able to stay part of".

Too true Paul. That's why I feel Labour should be saying that, and saying it loud.
Am trying to remember the debates at that time. Who was standing up and shouting about the havoc the lack of nuance would wreak ?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 3:38 pm

Would anyone have been supportive of a 3 line whip against at this stage of proceedings?

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 3:38 pm

The comment at 11.06 speaks for me. When I recall how Steve worked so hard at disproving the Mid-Staffs stuff (speaking of which, where is St Julie since she got her gong - job done I guess) to see him so entrenched in nonsense & conspiracy theories is sad.

https://skwawkbox.org/2017/01/26/labour ... t-take-it/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 27 Jan, 2017 3:39 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ey-point-c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brexit will delay new British nuclear power stations, warn experts
Analysts say exit from EU atomic treaty is ‘lose-lose’ that will raise costs and safety questions at plants such as Hinkley Point C