Wednesday 8th February 2017

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:24 am

StephenDolan wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
StephenDolan wrote: How does that conclusion (by AS?) tally with what McDonnell said regarding the need for resignations only the other day?
Because of the definition of a 3 line whip. If he doesn't have to resign then Labour no longer has 3 line whips and collective responsibility is over.

Which, of course, may be the truth.
TLW, HS2 and Starmer ring any bells?

No bells ringing for me I am afraid as Starmer wasn't a front bencher at the time of the HS2 vote.

So try again.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:32 am

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/bats ... al-lottery" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bats and churches to benefit thanks to National Lottery

The future of bats and the historic churches they can inhabit is looking brighter thanks to National Lottery support of £3.8m.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:35 am

SpinningHugo wrote:Widespread rumours of Corbyn quitting, with bookies slashing odds of his going this year.

Hopeless over optimism. Poor devils.

This year or next year - as I have said consistently throughout.

He never wanted to be leader, and doesn't want to be PM. Its all about ensuring a "suitable" successor now.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:36 am

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... d-guidance" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Open consultation
Bus Services Bill: draft regulations and guidance

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:37 am

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... 18#history" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Guidance
Schools funding arrangements 2017 to 2018

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:38 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
StephenDolan wrote: How does that conclusion (by AS?) tally with what McDonnell said regarding the need for resignations only the other day?
Because of the definition of a 3 line whip. If he doesn't have to resign then Labour no longer has 3 line whips and collective responsibility is over.

Which, of course, may be the truth.
Yawn....

Exceptions have been made before (though rarely)

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:40 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Widespread rumours of Corbyn quitting, with bookies slashing odds of his going this year.

Hopeless over optimism. Poor devils.
This year or next year - as I have said consistently throughout.

He never wanted to be leader, and doesn't want to be PM. Its all about ensuring a "suitable" successor now.

He can't go unless and until the succession is secure and McDonnell's rule amendment is in place. With Lewis proving unreliable, they don't have Corbyn II lined up to continue the glorious revolution yet, so he can't go.

He's going nowhere.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:40 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote: Because of the definition of a 3 line whip. If he doesn't have to resign then Labour no longer has 3 line whips and collective responsibility is over.

Which, of course, may be the truth.
Yawn....
Exceptions have been made before (though rarely)

When? Examples?

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:42 am

From the Daily Mash:

Jeremy Corbyn has denied ‘malicious’ claims that he is leader of the Labour Party.

The Islington MP insisted it was ‘gossip from the Westminster bubble’ and pledged to carry on not being the Labour Party leader until the next general election at the earliest.

In a speech in London he said: “I don’t know who the Labour leader is. No one does. And that is the way it should be.

“The leader of the Labour Party is an idea, not a person. It is a concept, not a name, or a face, or a brain.”

He added: “The leader of the Labour Party does not campaign or say things to people. It exists solely in our imaginations, like a unicorn that’s not particularly fussed about the EU.”

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:42 am

https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2017 ... rexit.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Does the Bank’s latest forecast mean Brexit has had no effect?

Mainlymacro

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:42 am

Twitter has been on the blink since last night hasn't it?

(refusing to download tweets on any accounts beyond the initial "page")

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:43 am

Perhaps something less boring. ICM poll Scotland sub-sample

(7/2/17)

SNP 51%
CON 24%
LAB 12%
LD 9%
GRN 3%
UKIP 1%

Labour getting squeezed out even more because of EU as Scotland becomes Nats v Unionists,

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:44 am

Sub samples are meaningless and you know this.

Labour is down to 15-16% in proper Scottish polls - that should be quite enough gloating material for you.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:44 am

Turkey dismisses 4,400 public servants in latest post-coup attempt purge

Dismissals come hours after first phone call between presidents Trump and Erdoğan hints at closer ties between US and Turkey (Guardian)

Two of the UK's closest friends. Gives you such a warm glow, doesn't it?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... phone-call

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:45 am

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/voic ... -customers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

News story
Voice ID showcases latest digital development for HMRC customers

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:47 am

http://www.debbieabrahams.org.uk/2017/s ... ruary-2017" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Shadow Work and Pensions Team News – February 2017

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:51 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Sub samples are meaningless and you know this.

Labour is down to 15-16% in proper Scottish polls - that should be quite enough gloating material for you.

I don't think this is mainly JC's fault as it happens. Nothing Labour can do about it. It is a longterm structural change in Scottish politics. JC doesn't help of course, but the trend looks irreversible (subject to the SNP cocking up in a major scandal).

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:53 am

Financial Times Verified account
‏@FT

Exclusive: Ivanka Trump oversaw a trust holding shares for Rupert Murdoch’s two youngest daughters http://on.ft.com/2kN4Ser" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

*cough* Draining the swamp *cough*

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 11:58 am

SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Sub samples are meaningless and you know this.

Labour is down to 15-16% in proper Scottish polls - that should be quite enough gloating material for you.

I don't think this is mainly JC's fault as it happens. Nothing Labour can do about it. It is a longterm structural change in Scottish politics. JC doesn't help of course, but the trend looks irreversible (subject to the SNP cocking up in a major scandal).

Eventually the SNP will lose support - unless you think they can hold off what has happened in every other genuine democracy forever.

SLab needs to rebuild itself and await developments. A new leadership team untainted by the 2014 referendum "betrayal" is of course a must there.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 12:05 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Sub samples are meaningless and you know this.

Labour is down to 15-16% in proper Scottish polls - that should be quite enough gloating material for you.

I don't think this is mainly JC's fault as it happens. Nothing Labour can do about it. It is a longterm structural change in Scottish politics. JC doesn't help of course, but the trend looks irreversible (subject to the SNP cocking up in a major scandal).
Eventually the SNP will lose support - unless you think they can hold off what has happened in every other genuine democracy forever.

SLab needs to rebuild itself and await developments. A new leadership team untainted by the 2014 referendum "betrayal" is of course a must there.

I think they can until independence, yes.

They just blame everything that goes wrong on Westminster until then. It has worked brilliantly so far and I see no reason to believe things will change.

There is no real point to Labour in Scotland any longer, so the squeeze will continue. Just the ultra-loyalists left now.

Quite interesting as a matter of speculation as to what Labour's true ultimate core vote is.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 12:10 pm

http://www.itv.com/news/granada/2017-02 ... nt-system/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

'Too many wrong decisions' in benefits assessment system

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 12:12 pm

Yes we're crap but Wales!

JFC.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 12:13 pm

Oh dear...

Isabel Hardman ‏@IsabelHardman 2m2 minutes ago

Corbyn has got a leak of text messages between Surrey Council and spads in DCLG about social care. A genuinely good line of attack #pmqs

and

James Forsyth ‏@JGForsyth 2m2 minutes ago

Presumably a reference to Nick King, one of Sajid Javid's SPADs

Not watching but did Surrey CC back down from their 15% increase in council tax because of pressure from government?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 12:16 pm

Actually an interesting counter factual is "would we be generally better off if Scotland had voted yes in 2014"?

The SNP would finally be held to account for stuff, Labour could have quickly regrouped as a distinctive Scottish party, and the likely turbulence from the decision might have put people off voting for Brexit. Even as far as a 2015 GE is concerned, not having the "Great Scots Scare" as a shroud to frighten people might well have hurt the Tories.

(and yes the Nats would likely have swept the Scottish seats in any such election, but given that they did anyway.......)

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 12:19 pm

Jack Blanchard ‏@Jack_Blanchard_ 1m1 minute ago

Sajid Javid now furiously texting away on his phone behind the Speaker's Chair. Perhaps chatting with 'Nick'? #PMQs

"Sorry Nick, everyone thinks you should go..."

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 12:19 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Actually an interesting counter factual is "would we be generally better off if Scotland had voted yes in 2014"?

The SNP would finally be held to account for stuff, Labour could have quickly regrouped as a distinctive Scottish party, and the likely turbulence from the decision might have put people off voting for Brexit. Even as far as a 2015 GE is concerned, not having the "Great Scots Scare" as a shroud to frighten people might well have hurt the Tories.

(and yes the Nats would likely have swept the Scottish seats in any such election, but given that they did that anyway.......)

Take away the 59 Scottish MPs and you're left with a huge Tory majority in the rest of the country. There is only one Scottish Tory MP. Permanent Tory rule.

But as that looks like that is what we have for the foreseeable future, perhaps the answer is 'no difference.'

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 12:21 pm

Corbyn thrashed May in PMQs. Social care is a disaster in the UK.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 12:21 pm

The idea that Tories would always win elections without Scotland is a myth.

And if Labour really is shut out there for the forseeable, they are going to have to win more support in England/Wales anyway.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 12:23 pm

Liz McInnes ‏@LizMcInnesMP 6m6 minutes ago

Surrey seems to be the hardest word today for Theresa May #PMQs

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 12:26 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:The idea that Tories would always win elections without Scotland is a myth.

And if Labour really is shut out there for the forseeable, they are going to have to win more support in England/Wales anyway.

Once upon a time, maybe.

Now, post-Corbyn?

No.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 12:34 pm

adam wrote:
HindleA wrote:Jeff Sessions: uproar as Republicans exploit procedure to silence Elizabeth Warren
Worth paying attention to for anybody who ever, for a moment, thinks that maybe the Republicans in congress won't be that bad and might hold Trump to account.

In a nomination hearing, where the whole point is to hold nominees to account whilst investigating their history, she was banned from criticising him by use of a Senate rule forbidding senators from demeaning other senators. She was reading a letter from Loretta Scott King, MLK's widow, about Sessions' history.

real snowflakes, them Republican Senators

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 12:35 pm

Good-afternoon, everyone.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 12:39 pm

So, which spad is about to be thrown under a bus for going rogue?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 12:43 pm

Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 7m7 minutes ago

Proof of Tory unease about school funding formula. May says Brady raised "an important matter ..we will look very closely" at concerns.

Time for a rethink...Tory shires not getting the money they thought would be coming. Also, grammars are complaining.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 12:43 pm

SH all forewarned by the useless Burnham,and the real experts.Check history for details.Also "reforms" to social security.It isn't useless,everywhere,or at least wasn't it did it's job for us and many others here,not without some stubborness it must be said but once achieved it was fine,attempts during the period of Tory Council maladministration to reduce,charge us contrary to previous agreement they mysteriously discovered when I pointed it out,withstanding.Of course,not so great for people following us.May and Cameron are despicable in their "economy first" line,both in warped prioritisation but also because judicious investment,for that is what it is in essence,saves money but more importantly lives.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 12:49 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Ian Lavery (who is utterly astonishingly in the shadow cabinet - what a disgrace) denies Corbyn rumours, saying no grain of truth.
Are you saying that we should take what he says with a pinch of salt?
Quite so.

These things are hard as once rumour starts it can render the leader a lame(r) duck.

Diversionary nonsense, get the bird's nest on the ground. Attending injured fowls will cook our goose.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 12:51 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:The idea that Tories would always win elections without Scotland is a myth.

And if Labour really is shut out there for the forseeable, they are going to have to win more support in England/Wales anyway.

Once upon a time, maybe.

Now, post-Corbyn?

No.

Post-Corbyn, anything is possible.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 12:51 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ern-europe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Disabled people have a particular reason to fear Brexit. Who will help us to live?
Penny Pepper

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 12:53 pm

PorFavor wrote:
HindleA wrote:Total recall: the people who never forge

https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Very disappointed that, when I went to your link, it wasn't an article about lazy blacksmiths.

I'd apprentice with a blacksmith. Post 'Brexit', we'll be without farriers.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 12:55 pm

RIP Alan Simpson

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 12:56 pm

Comedy writer clarification.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 12:59 pm

Staines has the info.

https://order-order.com/2017/02/08/read ... ages-full/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 1:03 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Staines has the info.

https://order-order.com/2017/02/08/read ... ages-full/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Having read through, I can't see how a spad can carry the can.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 1:05 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Staines has the info.

https://order-order.com/2017/02/08/read ... ages-full/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's also now over at Politics Live, Guardian (for the sake of the squeamish).

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 1:10 pm

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam 29m29 minutes ago

Labour shadow Health Secretary now calling for an inquiry into the Surrey Council deal to call off its social care council tax referendum

Odd that there are still some who claim there is no opposition - looks like they're doing a good job right now.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 1:18 pm

ago 13:12

ITV’s Robert Peston has spoken to David Hodge, the Surrey council leader, about the private texts. He has written up what Hodge is saying on his Facebook page. Here’s an excerpt.

Hodge said he “swears on the bible there was no sweetheart deal”.

But he concedes the texts he sent were supposed to go to Nick King, the special adviser to Sajid Javid.

Instead they went - by mistake - to a Labour councillor, Hodge told me. He is furious because he feels that the honour code of members of the Local Government Association, that they don’t leak against each other, has been breached by the leaker (Politics Live, Guardian)

All Labour's fault then. I thought as much, and now it's been confirmed by someone who's bound to have been crossed off Theresa May's Christmas card list.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 1:18 pm

Interesting and very encouraging

Angela EagleVerified account ‏@angelaeagle
All councils should be offered the same deal:Here's the Tory texts Jeremy Corbyn used to ambush Theresa May at #PMQs

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 1:21 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Interesting and very encouraging

Angela EagleVerified account ‏@angelaeagle
All councils should be offered the same deal:Here's the Tory texts Jeremy Corbyn used to ambush Theresa May at #PMQs

We've been hearing a lot more from Angela Eagle very lately. Is she doing it just to make me look stupid (I commented the other day how quiet she'd been)?

Edited to add -

Don't say it . . .

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 1:26 pm

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 08 Feb, 2017 1:27 pm

HindleA wrote:It

And there was me thinking of three letter words beginning it