Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th January 2015

Post by **refitman** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 4:47 pm

PorFavor wrote:@refitman

Thank you.

NP

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 4:53 pm

citizenJA wrote:Good-afternoon, friends.
Anyone else watch, Wolf Hall, based on Hillary Mantel's book?
CitizenPMJR & I watched the first part last night.
The actor portraying Henry VIII may have been a poor choice.

How so? A six foot tall redhead to play a six foot tall redhead seems perfect casting to me.

To be fair he only had the one scene in this episode, I'm sure he'll will grow on you as the series goes on. Damian Lewis is a damn fine actor, even he does prove Chris Bryant and Julie Walters' point.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 4:58 pm

The SNP ‏@theSNP 22h22 hours ago
SNP position at Westminster is not to vote on matters not impacting on Scotland - but privatising English NHS threatens the Scottish budget.

Er, right.

I don't think they need to worry about voting on anything at Westminster.

A very good card for Labour in Scotland that they don't recognise this silly distinction between English and non-English matters.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 4:58 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:...and now its the Greens turn for a bit of misleading press attention.

The Queen could be moved to a COUNCIL HOUSE if Green Party gains power

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/qu ... se-5034477" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mwahahahaa. Why would someone who owns other houses in her own right need council housing? Just for starters.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:00 pm

Given the results in today's matches, maybe people should be a bit less sniffy about last night's football. At least we won a replay. Away.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:01 pm

Strange feelings today. Eldest English granddaughter and her boyfriend of seven years moved into their own home today. I bought some household things for her. Aldi's had small food processors in for £13.99, so I treated her. Also tea towels, a nice stainless steel saucepan, and a dustpan and brush...Had a sort out of my cupboards for other pots and pans. I Remember the day she was born very clearly. At 24 hours old she made eye contact with me and gave me the straightest look.

And it doesn't seem like yesterday Mr Ohso and I were helping move her father and mother into their first home.

Time is seamless.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:03 pm

mbc1955 wrote:Given the results in today's matches, maybe people should be a bit less sniffy about last night's football. At least we won a replay. Away.

Oh dear...Chelsea. And Man City.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:05 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Strange feelings today. Eldest English granddaughter and her boyfriend of seven years moved into their own home today. I bought some household things for her. Aldi's had small food processors in for £13.99, so I treated her. Also tea towels, a nice stainless steel saucepan, and a dustpan and brush...Had a sort out of my cupboards for other pots and pans. I Remember the day she was born very clearly. At 24 hours old she made eye contact with me and gave me the straightest look.

And it doesn't seem like yesterday Mr Ohso and I were helping move her father and mother into their first home.

Time is seamless.

Quite a lot of my small kitchen appliances, crockery and cutlery were from my late grandmother and my parents. It's like having bits of history dotted around the house.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:07 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
mbc1955 wrote:Given the results in today's matches, maybe people should be a bit less sniffy about last night's football. At least we won a replay. Away.

Oh dear...Chelsea. And Man City.

Faisal Islam linked the results to the falling oil prices.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:07 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
mbc1955 wrote:Given the results in today's matches, maybe people should be a bit less sniffy about last night's football. At least we won a replay. Away.

Oh dear...Chelsea. And Man City.

Don't forget Southampton. The team in third place. And at home...

(PS - Spurs?)

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:07 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Good-afternoon, friends.
Anyone else watch, Wolf Hall, based on Hillary Mantel's book?
CitizenPMJR & I watched the first part last night.
The actor portraying Henry VIII may have been a poor choice.
How so? A six foot tall redhead to play a six foot tall redhead seems perfect casting to me.

To be fair he only had the one scene in this episode, I'm sure he'll will grow on you as the series goes on. Damian Lewis is a damn fine actor, even he does prove Chris Bryant and Julie Walters' point.

To be fair to Damien Lewis he did have to go to America and star in Band Of Brothers to make his name as an actor. Same goes for another old Etonian actor Dominic West. And you can't really say that their wealthier backgrounds allowed them to do that when you also have someone like Hackney boy Idris Elba doing the same thing too.

Re: Wolf Hall. Loved it.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:09 pm

PorFavor wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Good-afternoon, friends.
Anyone else watch, Wolf Hall, based on Hillary Mantel's book?
CitizenPMJR & I watched the first part last night.
The actor portraying Henry VIII may have been a poor choice.
No - I intended to watch it later and you've just reminded me - so thanks. I haven't read the book\s and I would prefer to have done that first but I don't think that's going to happen.

Anyway - what did you think of it? I read the Guardian review, though, which was hilariously full of historical inaccuracy in true Guardian style. An entertainment in itself.

I've read Mantel's book less than a year ago; I loved it. I've studied history a bit & wasn't offended by the artistic license Mantel uses historical events as the setting for her fiction. I was too impressed with her abilities as an author. She's a master; it doesn't matter if what she's chosen to highlight one thing or another that may distort the historical record. The BBC production is true to Mantel's book & that's why it's certainly worth seeing. I instantly recalled exactly where Mantel had taken me as a reader.

I've intentionally held off looking at Martin Kettle's review.

Thomas Cromwell is excellently cast, forgive me, I don't know actors' names, generally speaking. Anne Boleyn, excellent, neurotic, unconventionally beautiful, poised on the edge of hysteria, only one scene thus far, so, I'd better hold off. Cromwell's brutal father, outstandingly cast, their interaction perfect. Cardinal Wolsey - the actor is brilliant but he's given the sad task of relating historical facts viewers may have forgotten & his history refreshers are badly done.

An entertainment in itself.

Precisely, well-said. I'd do well to remember each journey, each book, film, review, committee meeting, work day is an opportunity, an invitation, to see differently than I'd expected rather than a series of tedious hours to be endured.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:09 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
mbc1955 wrote:Given the results in today's matches, maybe people should be a bit less sniffy about last night's football. At least we won a replay. Away.

Oh dear...Chelsea. And Man City.

I know. AK, heats off.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:17 pm

Re. John Harris.
Showmaster and he are pals, and it's Show's belief that JH is actually pretty left - he does not like New Labour and passionately hates Blairites.
I think some of the criticism here is unfair - of all the G's hacks, he's the only one who gets out there and actually talks to real people.
He was also a lone voice at the G who really understood what the H&SC Bill would mean from the start - the others took a while to catch on.
I think he's not as bad as he's painted here....(ducks)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

More on sanctions, and some thoughts on the "economically inactive"

There hasn't been much about sanctions on ESA claimants - though to be fair, there aren't as many of them.
20,000 were sanctioned last year.
The only group of ESA claimants who can be sanctioned are WRAG claimants - people who are too ill to work but may be capable in future.
Work Related Activity is not specified in legislation; it can be anything the jobcentre decides it is.

WRAG claimants must attend a series of at least 6 Work Focussed Interviews. Failure to attend results in a sanction.
WFIs are supposedly aimed at finding out what sort of work a claimant can do - that used to be the role of the DEA but not any more.
WFI advisers are supposed to find programmes, services, or whatever to assist an ill person back into work - but they have targets to get WRAG claimants on to all the same schemes etc. as JSA claimants, and they have targets for sanctions too.

Advisers also have other methods of getting WRAG claimants off benefit.
They can refer for a sanction if they think that a person is not doing everything they can to improve their health and thus their employability.
That option is also open to decision makers who allocate groupings after a WCA.
There was a case last year of a young woman with Ewings Sarcoma (a congenital malignancy of bone) who was refused benefit on the grounds that she has contributed to her health problems. By being born presumably......
The pilot for people who are mentally ill involves various mandatory "treatments" with which the claimant must comply or be sanctioned, irrespective of what the claimant or his clinicians say.
WRAG claimants are also much more likely to be sent to "volunteer" in charity shops etc. on workfare - this is usually mandatory too.

The only reason why the ESA claimant count has not fallen appreciably is not because sanctions are not being applied - they are. The anticipated fall has not happened because there is a massive backlog (still at 700,000) of people waiting for their first WCA, with new claims coming on to the system at the same sort of rate as before; that means that about half of those waiting would under normal circumstances be allocated a group by now or be "fit for work" or stuck in the appeals system.
The delays have caused the number of appeals to plummet - but only because so many haven't got that far yet; and the delays have also obscured the sanctions because the count looks the same but it's actually a false picture.

ONS figures show that the number of people who are economically inactive hasn't changed much.
It hovered around 8 million from 2005 to 2010, but has been slowly rising since then and is now 8.9 million.
While more women are in employment than ever before, more men are economically inactive than ever before.
Most of the rise in employment is due to population increase, immigration, more people working longer due to new pension rules, and other factors and it is not the huge success we are being told. Youth unemployment isn't changing much.

So - we already know that a significant cohort, about 500,000, are not working nor claiming benefits (neither by choice) for varying periods during any given year and we know that is due to sanctions and nothing else.
We also know that people who are economically inactive are gradually increasing in number, and that their demographic is changing.
So we know that unemployment remains a problem, employment isn't much better, and that is borne out by low tax receipts and the massive increase in need reported by local authorities and charities.

If I can work this out, why can't the politicians?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:17 pm

refitman wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Strange feelings today. Eldest English granddaughter and her boyfriend of seven years moved into their own home today. I bought some household things for her. Aldi's had small food processors in for £13.99, so I treated her. Also tea towels, a nice stainless steel saucepan, and a dustpan and brush...Had a sort out of my cupboards for other pots and pans. I Remember the day she was born very clearly. At 24 hours old she made eye contact with me and gave me the straightest look.

And it doesn't seem like yesterday Mr Ohso and I were helping move her father and mother into their first home.

Time is seamless.
Quite a lot of my small kitchen appliances, crockery and cutlery were from my late grandmother and my parents. It's like having bits of history dotted around the house.

I sorted her out a small saucepan that belonged to my mum and dad. Unfortunately my dad's unmarried brother stayed on in my grandmother's house and when he had to go into care, Social Services took over, and the contents were sold on to a dealer. Was looking after dad at the time and ill myself so didn't get to hear about it until after it was done and dusted. I'd have given anything to have her rolling pin and mixing bowl.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:19 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:...and now its the Greens turn for a bit of misleading press attention.

The Queen could be moved to a COUNCIL HOUSE if Green Party gains power

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/qu ... se-5034477" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Mwahahahaa. Why would someone who owns other houses in her own right need council housing? Just for starters.

The thing that got me about this is NB said it, but it was in an off hand (supposed to be) funny kind of way "Oh well, sure we can find her a council house as we will build lots....."
and the press are doing to the Greens exactly what they have done to Labour for the last 5 years, jumped on a careless - funny - comment and slaughtered (or tried to slaughter) them for it.
This is why we have stilted, stifled politicians who won't answer a straight question for fear it will be turned against them, or that its a trick question. The Greens at the moment are looking fresh and clean, but not for long with this kind of slimy treatment.
I'm not (as everyone knows) a Green supporter and should perhaps have been cheered by them getting some bad press, but it made me cringe to be honest.
We need a fair and honest press.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:20 pm

Spacedone wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Good-afternoon, friends.
Anyone else watch, Wolf Hall, based on Hillary Mantel's book?
CitizenPMJR & I watched the first part last night.
The actor portraying Henry VIII may have been a poor choice.
How so? A six foot tall redhead to play a six foot tall redhead seems perfect casting to me.

To be fair he only had the one scene in this episode, I'm sure he'll will grow on you as the series goes on. Damian Lewis is a damn fine actor, even he does prove Chris Bryant and Julie Walters' point.
To be fair to Damien Lewis he did have to go to America and star in Band Of Brothers to make his name as an actor. Same goes for another old Etonian actor Dominic West. And you can't really say that their wealthier backgrounds allowed them to do that when you also have someone like Hackney boy Idris Elba doing the same thing too.

Re: Wolf Hall. Loved it.

Tru dat. Band of Brothers was the 1st thing I saw him in, was shocked when I saw him doing an English accent in something else,

@CitizenJA, Thomas Cromwell is played by Mark Rylance who is better known for theatre work than film & TV. Saw him at the Globe a few times, he is astonishingly good.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:22 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:...and now its the Greens turn for a bit of misleading press attention.

The Queen could be moved to a COUNCIL HOUSE if Green Party gains power

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/qu ... se-5034477" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Mwahahahaa. Why would someone who owns other houses in her own right need council housing? Just for starters.
The thing that got me about this is NB said it, but it was in an off hand (supposed to be) funny kind of way "Oh well, sure we can find her a council house as we will build lots....."
and the press are doing to the Greens exactly what they have done to Labour for the last 5 years, jumped on a careless - funny - comment and slaughtered (or tried to slaughter) them for it.
This is why we have stilted, stifled politicians who won't answer a straight question for fear it will be turned against them, or that its a trick question. The Greens at the moment are looking fresh and clean, but not for long with this kind of slimy treatment.
I'm not (as everyone knows) a Green supporter and should perhaps have been cheered by them getting some bad press, but it made me cringe to be honest.
We need a fair and honest press.

I don't actually see anything all that wrong with moving Mrs Windsor into a Council House. It might lead to an upgrade of facilities for the people who really need them.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:22 pm

How so? A six foot tall redhead to play a six foot tall redhead seems perfect casting to me.

You'd think so, wouldn't you? I'm sorry for it. The inside of this actor is something entirely different than what was Henry VIII, King. Apologies, the actor is probably brilliant in other things, I don't know. His presence is too nelly-boy, precious, fragile, small. He looks like an anemic, insecure, little soul rather than the absolutely magnificent, Renaissance man HENRY VIII was at precisely that time in his life. Henry VIII was larger than life, Golden, every contemporary account, especially those other monarchs & want-to-be monarchs who hated him, loved him because of envy, conceded he was a truly stunning person in all ways, physically, mentally, spiritually, not in the least insecure (unless he might have been in the company of Anne Boleyn prior to the physical consummation of their partnership - but he was outdoors with his men in the scene seen) extraordinarily intelligent, the height of all his powers.

He becomes rather dissipated after his Boleyn years. Despotic, too fond of his own way to ever be wise.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:23 pm

ephemerid wrote:Re. John Harris.
Showmaster and he are pals, and it's Show's belief that JH is actually pretty left - he does not like New Labour and passionately hates Blairites.
I think some of the criticism here is unfair - of all the G's hacks, he's the only one who gets out there and actually talks to real people.
He was also a lone voice at the G who really understood what the H&SC Bill would mean from the start - the others took a while to catch on.
I think he's not as bad as he's painted here....(ducks)?

So I was pretty much spot on? Makes a change.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:24 pm

citizenJA wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Good-afternoon, friends.
Anyone else watch, Wolf Hall, based on Hillary Mantel's book?
CitizenPMJR & I watched the first part last night.
The actor portraying Henry VIII may have been a poor choice.
No - I intended to watch it later and you've just reminded me - so thanks. I haven't read the book\s and I would prefer to have done that first but I don't think that's going to happen.

Anyway - what did you think of it? I read the Guardian review, though, which was hilariously full of historical inaccuracy in true Guardian style. An entertainment in itself.
I've read Mantel's book less than a year ago; I loved it. I've studied history a bit & wasn't offended by the artistic license Mantel uses historical events as the setting for her fiction. I was too impressed with her abilities as an author. She's a master; it doesn't matter if what she's chosen to highlight one thing or another that may distort the historical record. The BBC production is true to Mantel's book & that's why it's certainly worth seeing. I instantly recalled exactly where Mantel had taken me as a reader.

I've intentionally held off looking at Martin Kettle's review.

Thomas Cromwell is excellently cast, forgive me, I don't know actors' names, generally speaking. Anne Boleyn, excellent, neurotic, unconventionally beautiful, poised on the edge of hysteria, only one scene thus far, so, I'd better hold off. Cromwell's brutal father, outstandingly cast, their interaction perfect. Cardinal Wolsey - the actor is brilliant but he's given the sad task of relating historical facts viewers may have forgotten & his history refreshers are badly done.

An entertainment in itself.

Precisely, well-said. I'd do well to remember each journey, each book, film, review, committee meeting, work day is an opportunity, an invitation, to see differently than I'd expected rather than a series of tedious hours to be endured.

I've yet to read anything by Hilary Mantle. She was on TV the other day along with other historians talking about Anne Boleyn. I was impressed by her interpretation.

CJ Sansome's Shardlake series is set in Henry V111s time. I really enjoy them too.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:25 pm

citizenJA wrote:Good-afternoon, friends.
Anyone else watch, Wolf Hall, based on Hillary Mantel's book?
CitizenPMJR & I watched the first part last night.
The actor portraying Henry VIII may have been a poor choice.

Not seen it, yet, but thanks for reminding me to look it out on iPlayer.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:25 pm

Spacedone wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Good-afternoon, friends.
Anyone else watch, Wolf Hall, based on Hillary Mantel's book?
CitizenPMJR & I watched the first part last night.
The actor portraying Henry VIII may have been a poor choice.
How so? A six foot tall redhead to play a six foot tall redhead seems perfect casting to me.

To be fair he only had the one scene in this episode, I'm sure he'll will grow on you as the series goes on. Damian Lewis is a damn fine actor, even he does prove Chris Bryant and Julie Walters' point.
To be fair to Damien Lewis he did have to go to America and star in Band Of Brothers to make his name as an actor. Same goes for another old Etonian actor Dominic West. And you can't really say that their wealthier backgrounds allowed them to do that when you also have someone like Hackney boy Idris Elba doing the same thing too.

Re: Wolf Hall. Loved it.

I thought Lewis was quite good - at that point, the King was still a young man and very sporty he was too. In the first episode, Henry was in his late thirties or thereabouts, before the obesity and syphilis caught up with him.

Watching other Lewis performances, I have no doubt he will do the role justice. He gives good furious.....

Rylance was terrific. Less is more....

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:26 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Good-afternoon, friends.
Anyone else watch, Wolf Hall, based on Hillary Mantel's book?
CitizenPMJR & I watched the first part last night.
The actor portraying Henry VIII may have been a poor choice.
How so? A six foot tall redhead to play a six foot tall redhead seems perfect casting to me.

To be fair he only had the one scene in this episode, I'm sure he'll will grow on you as the series goes on. Damian Lewis is a damn fine actor, even he does prove Chris Bryant and Julie Walters' point.

Is that the actor playing Damian Lewis? I'm almost certain he is a brilliant actor - I look forward to seeing his powers in a role he's suited for. You're absolutely right - we've only seen Henry VIII & his Lady in a single scene each, haven't we?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:29 pm

Years ago I read one in the series of The Darling Buds of May. Can't remember how many there are. Not many though.
Today there was an episode on TV, so I'm determined to get the books.

It might mean breaking my Amazon Boycott again. They are naughty...I am conflicted

Or should that be in conflict?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:29 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:...and now its the Greens turn for a bit of misleading press attention.

The Queen could be moved to a COUNCIL HOUSE if Green Party gains power

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/qu ... se-5034477" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Mwahahahaa. Why would someone who owns other houses in her own right need council housing? Just for starters.
The thing that got me about this is NB said it, but it was in an off hand (supposed to be) funny kind of way "Oh well, sure we can find her a council house as we will build lots....."
and the press are doing to the Greens exactly what they have done to Labour for the last 5 years, jumped on a careless - funny - comment and slaughtered (or tried to slaughter) them for it.
This is why we have stilted, stifled politicians who won't answer a straight question for fear it will be turned against them, or that its a trick question. The Greens at the moment are looking fresh and clean, but not for long with this kind of slimy treatment.
I'm not (as everyone knows) a Green supporter and should perhaps have been cheered by them getting some bad press, but it made me cringe to be honest.
We need a fair and honest press.

Agree with that AAW. That's how I read NB's remarks as well - a little throw away quip. I suppose she is going to get the double whammy treatment from the MSM if she threatens to actually make waves - she's a woman so can't possibly be funny - and a left winger, rabid socialist - can't have that. Oh, and she's foreign too ... so we probably expect someone somewhere to use that in some way.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:29 pm

mbc1955 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote: Mwahahahaa. Why would someone who owns other houses in her own right need council housing? Just for starters.
The thing that got me about this is NB said it, but it was in an off hand (supposed to be) funny kind of way "Oh well, sure we can find her a council house as we will build lots....."
and the press are doing to the Greens exactly what they have done to Labour for the last 5 years, jumped on a careless - funny - comment and slaughtered (or tried to slaughter) them for it.
This is why we have stilted, stifled politicians who won't answer a straight question for fear it will be turned against them, or that its a trick question. The Greens at the moment are looking fresh and clean, but not for long with this kind of slimy treatment.
I'm not (as everyone knows) a Green supporter and should perhaps have been cheered by them getting some bad press, but it made me cringe to be honest.
We need a fair and honest press.
I don't actually see anything all that wrong with moving Mrs Windsor into a Council House. It might lead to an upgrade of facilities for the people who really need them.

Its the distortion of what - and how - was said not if queeny moves into a council house that bothered me.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:33 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote: Mwahahahaa. Why would someone who owns other houses in her own right need council housing? Just for starters.
The thing that got me about this is NB said it, but it was in an off hand (supposed to be) funny kind of way "Oh well, sure we can find her a council house as we will build lots....."
and the press are doing to the Greens exactly what they have done to Labour for the last 5 years, jumped on a careless - funny - comment and slaughtered (or tried to slaughter) them for it.
This is why we have stilted, stifled politicians who won't answer a straight question for fear it will be turned against them, or that its a trick question. The Greens at the moment are looking fresh and clean, but not for long with this kind of slimy treatment.
I'm not (as everyone knows) a Green supporter and should perhaps have been cheered by them getting some bad press, but it made me cringe to be honest.
We need a fair and honest press.
Agree with that AAW. That's how I read NB's remarks as well - a little throw away quip. I suppose she is going to get the double whammy treatment from the MSM if she threatens to actually make waves - she's a woman so can't possibly be funny - and a left winger, rabid socialist - can't have that. Oh, and she's foreign too ... so we probably expect someone somewhere to use that in some way.

Yep Huff Post have picked it up now
"The Green Party wants to put The Queen in a council house"
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/01 ... 1422104664" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(For clarity I'm damming the press not supporting queeny or greens)

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:34 pm

And talking about books. And the Queen. Can't remember her name and the books are too tucked away to check, but the author of Adrian Mole wrote a couple of delightful books about the Royal Family being demoted, evicted and put into social housing on a run down council estate.
One is called "The Queen". The other is titled "Camilla". They are brilliant. Well worth getting.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:35 pm

ephemerid wrote:
Spacedone wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote: How so? A six foot tall redhead to play a six foot tall redhead seems perfect casting to me.

To be fair he only had the one scene in this episode, I'm sure he'll will grow on you as the series goes on. Damian Lewis is a damn fine actor, even he does prove Chris Bryant and Julie Walters' point.
To be fair to Damien Lewis he did have to go to America and star in Band Of Brothers to make his name as an actor. Same goes for another old Etonian actor Dominic West. And you can't really say that their wealthier backgrounds allowed them to do that when you also have someone like Hackney boy Idris Elba doing the same thing too.

Re: Wolf Hall. Loved it.
I thought Lewis was quite good - at that point, the King was still a young man and very sporty he was too. In the first episode, Henry was in his late thirties or thereabouts, before the obesity and syphilis caught up with him.

Watching other Lewis performances, I have no doubt he will do the role justice. He gives good furious.....

Rylance was terrific. Less is more....

(my bold)
Ah! Exactly! That's Henry VIII! Giving good furious!

Lewis doesn't take up enough space - I don't mean Henry VIII's physique, which you've described well, young, sporty, at this time in his life very nearly perfect. Lewis! You're Henry VIII!

At one point in that little scene outdoors, I thought one of the men striding away was Henry VIII...the lowest point in the program for me. I scowled with all my features.

There was never any doubt which person was Henry VIII in any group regardless of where his people were surrounding him, regardless of distinctive clothing. Wait a sec. I don't remember too much about Henry VIII in Mantel's book! Oh, that's it then. Mantel's Henry VIII is perfect. I'm thinking about the historical monarch.

My bad.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:40 pm

Small Tales from the Doorstep - snippet 2

We rang the bell and waited. The door was opened - slowly - by a young man with a beaming grin and sleepy looking eyes. He kept grinning throughout our good mornings and introductions. And he carried on grinning when we asked if he was going to vote. He managed to get out 'I'm not sure' and then giggled a bit - and a bit more. One very 'happy' person.

We walked away and started giggling ourselves.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:40 pm

ephemerid wrote:
Spacedone wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote: How so? A six foot tall redhead to play a six foot tall redhead seems perfect casting to me.

To be fair he only had the one scene in this episode, I'm sure he'll will grow on you as the series goes on. Damian Lewis is a damn fine actor, even he does prove Chris Bryant and Julie Walters' point.
To be fair to Damien Lewis he did have to go to America and star in Band Of Brothers to make his name as an actor. Same goes for another old Etonian actor Dominic West. And you can't really say that their wealthier backgrounds allowed them to do that when you also have someone like Hackney boy Idris Elba doing the same thing too.

Re: Wolf Hall. Loved it.
I thought Lewis was quite good - at that point, the King was still a young man and very sporty he was too. In the first episode, Henry was in his late thirties or thereabouts, before the obesity and syphilis caught up with him.

Watching other Lewis performances, I have no doubt he will do the role justice. He gives good furious.....

Rylance was terrific. Less is more....

I've read recently that they're not so sure now about the syphilis, but are pretty certain that he was suffering Type 2 diabetes.
His symptoms are typical when untreated.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:40 pm

ephemerid wrote:
Spacedone wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote: How so? A six foot tall redhead to play a six foot tall redhead seems perfect casting to me.

To be fair he only had the one scene in this episode, I'm sure he'll will grow on you as the series goes on. Damian Lewis is a damn fine actor, even he does prove Chris Bryant and Julie Walters' point.
To be fair to Damien Lewis he did have to go to America and star in Band Of Brothers to make his name as an actor. Same goes for another old Etonian actor Dominic West. And you can't really say that their wealthier backgrounds allowed them to do that when you also have someone like Hackney boy Idris Elba doing the same thing too.

Re: Wolf Hall. Loved it.
I thought Lewis was quite good - at that point, the King was still a young man and very sporty he was too. In the first episode, Henry was in his late thirties or thereabouts, before the obesity and syphilis caught up with him.

Watching other Lewis performances, I have no doubt he will do the role justice. He gives good furious.....

Rylance was terrific. Less is more....

For a less furious Lewis, it is worth tracking down the shortlived US series, Life. Again this was the first thing I saw him in and was pleasantly surprised when I heard his real accent.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0874936/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:40 pm

Sue Townshend?

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:43 pm

citizenJA wrote:
ephemerid wrote:
Spacedone wrote: To be fair to Damien Lewis he did have to go to America and star in Band Of Brothers to make his name as an actor. Same goes for another old Etonian actor Dominic West. And you can't really say that their wealthier backgrounds allowed them to do that when you also have someone like Hackney boy Idris Elba doing the same thing too.

Re: Wolf Hall. Loved it.
I thought Lewis was quite good - at that point, the King was still a young man and very sporty he was too. In the first episode, Henry was in his late thirties or thereabouts, before the obesity and syphilis caught up with him.

Watching other Lewis performances, I have no doubt he will do the role justice. He gives good furious.....

Rylance was terrific. Less is more....
(my bold)
Ah! Exactly! That's Henry VIII! Giving good furious!

Lewis doesn't take up enough space - I don't mean Henry VIII's physique, which you've described well, young, sporty, at this time in his life very nearly perfect. Lewis! You're Henry VIII!

At one point in that little scene outdoors, I thought one of the men striding away was Henry VIII...the lowest point in the program for me. I scowled with all my features.

There was never any doubt which person was Henry VIII in any group regardless of where his people were surrounding him, regardless of distinctive clothing. Wait a sec. I don't remember too much about Henry VIII in Mantel's book! Oh, that's it then. Mantel's Henry VIII is perfect. I'm thinking about the historical monarch.

My bad.

The thing you need to bear in mind when reading anything about Henry is that all the primary source material will inevitably be flattering, for the same reason that much written about Richard III is negative; you aren't going to say that the most important man in England, and one of the premier princes of Europe, is anything less than golden, are you? I'm sure he cut a very impressive figure, but I always employ a critical filter to an extent.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:46 pm

ephemerid wrote:Re. John Harris.
Showmaster and he are pals, and it's Show's belief that JH is actually pretty left - he does not like New Labour and passionately hates Blairites.
I think some of the criticism here is unfair - of all the G's hacks, he's the only one who gets out there and actually talks to real people.
He was also a lone voice at the G who really understood what the H&SC Bill would mean from the start - the others took a while to catch on.
I think he's not as bad as he's painted here....(ducks)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

More on sanctions, and some thoughts on the "economically inactive"

There hasn't been much about sanctions on ESA claimants - though to be fair, there aren't as many of them.
20,000 were sanctioned last year.
The only group of ESA claimants who can be sanctioned are WRAG claimants - people who are too ill to work but may be capable in future.
Work Related Activity is not specified in legislation; it can be anything the jobcentre decides it is.

WRAG claimants must attend a series of at least 6 Work Focussed Interviews. Failure to attend results in a sanction.
WFIs are supposedly aimed at finding out what sort of work a claimant can do - that used to be the role of the DEA but not any more.
WFI advisers are supposed to find programmes, services, or whatever to assist an ill person back into work - but they have targets to get WRAG claimants on to all the same schemes etc. as JSA claimants, and they have targets for sanctions too.

Advisers also have other methods of getting WRAG claimants off benefit.
They can refer for a sanction if they think that a person is not doing everything they can to improve their health and thus their employability.
That option is also open to decision makers who allocate groupings after a WCA.
There was a case last year of a young woman with Ewings Sarcoma (a congenital malignancy of bone) who was refused benefit on the grounds that she has contributed to her health problems. By being born presumably......
The pilot for people who are mentally ill involves various mandatory "treatments" with which the claimant must comply or be sanctioned, irrespective of what the claimant or his clinicians say.
WRAG claimants are also much more likely to be sent to "volunteer" in charity shops etc. on workfare - this is usually mandatory too.

The only reason why the ESA claimant count has not fallen appreciably is not because sanctions are not being applied - they are. The anticipated fall has not happened because there is a massive backlog (still at 700,000) of people waiting for their first WCA, with new claims coming on to the system at the same sort of rate as before; that means that about half of those waiting would under normal circumstances be allocated a group by now or be "fit for work" or stuck in the appeals system.
The delays have caused the number of appeals to plummet - but only because so many haven't got that far yet; and the delays have also obscured the sanctions because the count looks the same but it's actually a false picture.

ONS figures show that the number of people who are economically inactive hasn't changed much.
It hovered around 8 million from 2005 to 2010, but has been slowly rising since then and is now 8.9 million.
While more women are in employment than ever before, more men are economically inactive than ever before.
Most of the rise in employment is due to population increase, immigration, more people working longer due to new pension rules, and other factors and it is not the huge success we are being told. Youth unemployment isn't changing much.

So - we already know that a significant cohort, about 500,000, are not working nor claiming benefits (neither by choice) for varying periods during any given year and we know that is due to sanctions and nothing else.
We also know that people who are economically inactive are gradually increasing in number, and that their demographic is changing.
So we know that unemployment remains a problem, employment isn't much better, and that is borne out by low tax receipts and the massive increase in need reported by local authorities and charities.

If I can work this out, why can't the politicians?

You must stand for election, please. Yes, I know in a general way your health isn't as robust as we'd love for it to be. We'll have to make adaptations in order for your Parliamentary & constituency work to be done. Okay. If that's impossible, you'll have to be given a consultancy position in order for your knowledge to benefit the country, the world. Please. The challenges are large. So is your experience. So is your heart.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:49 pm

frightful_oik wrote:Sue Townshend?

Thank you. Yes, that's her. She died recently didn't she.
I'm awful with names. It's taken me two years to remember my neighbours christian name

Post by **refitman** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:50 pm

ohsocynical wrote:And talking about books. And the Queen. Can't remember her name and the books are too tucked away to check, but the author of Adrian Mole wrote a couple of delightful books about the Royal Family being demoted, evicted and put into social housing on a run down council estate.
One is called "The Queen". The other is titled "Camilla". They are brilliant. Well worth getting.

Sue Townsend. I think the first is "The Queen and I".

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:50 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote: The thing you need to bear in mind when reading anything about Henry is that all the primary source material will inevitably be flattering, for the same reason that much written about Richard III is negative; you aren't going to say that the most important man in England, and one of the premier princes of Europe, is anything less than golden, are you? I'm sure he cut a very impressive figure, but I always employ a critical filter to an extent.

Duly noted. The King(s) of France, Henry's 'equals', were forced to admit he was magnificent. They didn't want to have to do that. They had to. He was the perfect prince.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:53 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:Sue Townshend?

Thank you. Yes, that's her. She died recently didn't she.
I'm awful with names. It's taken me two years to remember my neighbours christian name

If in doubt, try Dave. It normally works.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:57 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote: The thing that got me about this is NB said it, but it was in an off hand (supposed to be) funny kind of way "Oh well, sure we can find her a council house as we will build lots....."
and the press are doing to the Greens exactly what they have done to Labour for the last 5 years, jumped on a careless - funny - comment and slaughtered (or tried to slaughter) them for it.
This is why we have stilted, stifled politicians who won't answer a straight question for fear it will be turned against them, or that its a trick question. The Greens at the moment are looking fresh and clean, but not for long with this kind of slimy treatment.
I'm not (as everyone knows) a Green supporter and should perhaps have been cheered by them getting some bad press, but it made me cringe to be honest.
We need a fair and honest press.
Agree with that AAW. That's how I read NB's remarks as well - a little throw away quip. I suppose she is going to get the double whammy treatment from the MSM if she threatens to actually make waves - she's a woman so can't possibly be funny - and a left winger, rabid socialist - can't have that. Oh, and she's foreign too ... so we probably expect someone somewhere to use that in some way.
Yep Huff Post have picked it up now
"The Green Party wants to put The Queen in a council house"
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/01 ... 1422104664" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(For clarity I'm damming the press not supporting queeny or greens)

Oh, what the Queen could do...I'd love for her to look absolutely thrilled, be absolutely thrilled, sincerely, at the prospect & move herself into a tidy council house for the duration of her long life. On the understanding everyone needing a tidy council house to live in anywhere in the country of her birth will also have the opportunity to live in a securely tenured, local authority administered council house too.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 5:59 pm

citizenJA wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote: The thing you need to bear in mind when reading anything about Henry is that all the primary source material will inevitably be flattering, for the same reason that much written about Richard III is negative; you aren't going to say that the most important man in England, and one of the premier princes of Europe, is anything less than golden, are you? I'm sure he cut a very impressive figure, but I always employ a critical filter to an extent.
Duly noted. The King(s) of France, Henry's 'equals', were forced to admit he was magnificent. They didn't want to have to do that. They had to. He was the perfect prince.

Well, arguably, they had to say that for political reasons; I doubt even Cameron really believes the dead Saudi king was a reformer, rather than a bloodthirsty misogynistic tyrant, but that is what he has to say. I'm not disagreeing with you really, just I had this scepticism drilled into me when I did my A-Level a few years back; our lecturer said always to question primary sources, to consider how the geopolitics of the time may have influenced them - something like Foxe's Book of Martyrs makes more sense when you apply that reasoning.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 6:00 pm

refitman wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:And talking about books. And the Queen. Can't remember her name and the books are too tucked away to check, but the author of Adrian Mole wrote a couple of delightful books about the Royal Family being demoted, evicted and put into social housing on a run down council estate.
One is called "The Queen". The other is titled "Camilla". They are brilliant. Well worth getting.
Sue Townsend. I think the first is "The Queen and I".

I'm seventy. Seemed to be able to read when I was five [can't remember learning how although I must have] and recently tried to work out how many books I've read over 64 years. It's thousands and believe it or not I can tell whether I've read it by checking the first page although I might not clearly remember the plot or storyline.
Some books though stand out. I keep them and every so often read them again. The Queen and I and Camilla are two of those.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 6:06 pm

@AAW
I had refrained from posting this - but now that you have brought up the press distortion - here it is. This is as tweeted out by Tim Montgomerie - don't know where it actually originates from ... maybe The Times link that he gives. Anyway - it annoyed me. I knew where the Queen to be put in council house chinese whisper came from. I then tried to see where some of the other distortions had originated by looking through the relevant Green policy docs. I can see - just about - the one re decriminalising membership of terrorist organisations - but at a real stretch. But the one about turning army barracks into nature reserves seems to be plain doodah. As far as I can see it's a gross distortion of the Greens saying that the army should not be allowed to carry out training exercises on / use as artillery ranges places like Salisbury Plain and other national parks - they should be withdrawn and the landscape become purely for recreation / conservation. ....

: Which Green Policy Is The Craziest.jpg (49.23 KiB) Viewed 6618 times

Tim Montgomerie ن ‏@montie 8h8 hours ago
Which Green Party policy is craziest of all? There's a lot of competition #SplitTheLeft https://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/pol ... 33034.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … pic.twitter.com/2URmJi8ETE

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 6:10 pm

Your daily UKIP suspension / disqualification / almighty gaffe alert follows.

john spellar ‏@spellar 6m6 minutes ago
RT @BBCBreaking: UKIP MEP Amjad Bashir suspended pending investigation into "extremely serious" financial issues, party says

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 6:12 pm

Do you want to hear something daft?

Recently I had a health scare. My immediate and only thought was regret for all the books I'd never get to read. I felt dreadful about it afterwards because family never got a look in.
Thankfully the health scare was a wrong diagnoses, but it was such a powerful feeling which hasn't left me that I'm making it top priority to re-read all the books I remember enjoying in the past as well as new novels by favourite authors. Plus political books when I can find them.

My latest find from Egham's Oxfam shop is Michael Heseltine's autobiography....I'm not keen on autobiographies because authors can be deceitful when writing about themselves but anything covering Maggies reign of terror is sure to be interesting.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 6:17 pm

citizenJA wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: Agree with that AAW. That's how I read NB's remarks as well - a little throw away quip. I suppose she is going to get the double whammy treatment from the MSM if she threatens to actually make waves - she's a woman so can't possibly be funny - and a left winger, rabid socialist - can't have that. Oh, and she's foreign too ... so we probably expect someone somewhere to use that in some way.
Yep Huff Post have picked it up now
"The Green Party wants to put The Queen in a council house"
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/01 ... 1422104664" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(For clarity I'm damming the press not supporting queeny or greens)
Oh, what the Queen could do...I'd love for her to look absolutely thrilled, be absolutely thrilled, sincerely, at the prospect & move herself into a tidy council house for the duration of her long life. On the understanding everyone needing a tidy council house to live in anywhere in the country of her birth will also have the opportunity to live in a securely tenured, local authority administered council house too.

You should read Sue Townsends books...The Queen and I, and Camilla. I promise you'll love them

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 6:20 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote: The thing you need to bear in mind when reading anything about Henry is that all the primary source material will inevitably be flattering, for the same reason that much written about Richard III is negative; you aren't going to say that the most important man in England, and one of the premier princes of Europe, is anything less than golden, are you? I'm sure he cut a very impressive figure, but I always employ a critical filter to an extent.
Duly noted. The King(s) of France, Henry's 'equals', were forced to admit he was magnificent. They didn't want to have to do that. They had to. He was the perfect prince.
Well, arguably, they had to say that for political reasons; I doubt even Cameron really believes the dead Saudi king was a reformer, rather than a bloodthirsty misogynistic tyrant, but that is what he has to say. I'm not disagreeing with you really, just I had this scepticism drilled into me when I did my A-Level a few years back; our lecturer said always to question primary sources, to consider how the geopolitics of the time may have influenced them - something like Foxe's Book of Martyrs makes more sense when you apply that reasoning.

Even speculating on the king's death carried the death penalty.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 6:22 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
mbc1955 wrote:Given the results in today's matches, maybe people should be a bit less sniffy about last night's football. At least we won a replay. Away.

Oh dear...Chelsea. And Man City.

As a life long Smoggie with relatives from the blue half of Manchester I'm over the moon

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 24 Jan, 2015 6:23 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:...and now its the Greens turn for a bit of misleading press attention.

The Queen could be moved to a COUNCIL HOUSE if Green Party gains power

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/qu ... se-5034477" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Mwahahahaa. Why would someone who owns other houses in her own right need council housing? Just for starters.
The thing that got me about this is NB said it, but it was in an off hand (supposed to be) funny kind of way "Oh well, sure we can find her a council house as we will build lots....."
and the press are doing to the Greens exactly what they have done to Labour for the last 5 years, jumped on a careless - funny - comment and slaughtered (or tried to slaughter) them for it.
This is why we have stilted, stifled politicians who won't answer a straight question for fear it will be turned against them, or that its a trick question. The Greens at the moment are looking fresh and clean, but not for long with this kind of slimy treatment.
I'm not (as everyone knows) a Green supporter and should perhaps have been cheered by them getting some bad press, but it made me cringe to be honest.
We need a fair and honest press.

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