FlyTheNest

SpinningHugo wrote:

rearofthestore wrote:Good Morning
A new, very large sample, yougov poll just out for the Times.
Sample size 8271 with very little weighting
CON 34% LAB 33% LD 8% UKIP 14% GREEN 5% SNP/PC 5%
Unweighted just about even CON & LAB slight (CON lead less than 1/2%)
However in the age groups LAB lead convincingly in all but the 60+ agegroup (where Con lead is 14%%) so perhaps Cameron's performance at AGEUK was not just ill judged but stupid.

Link? Where does it say unweighted? That is bad news if those are the raw numbers.

pk1 wrote:

RogerOThornhill wrote:

pk1 wrote: Did you watch yesterdays with Coburn challenging Chris Leslie, saying Alastair Darling had every intention to increase VAT if Labour had won in 2010 ?

She was most insistent, so much so that I went & found the budget 2010 red book & oh look, what does it say.....

Darling's book quite clearly has him in favour of increasing VAT ahead of the 2010 election in the middle of the financial crisis to raise more tax revenue. Balls is said to have been dead set against the idea as was, crucially, Gordon Brown which is why it didn't happen.

So it was something he put in his own book but was not presented in any budget red book ?

Swarthlander wrote:

ErnstRemarx wrote:...bacon's on, smoked variety today for a change.

Oak or applewood?

Good morning.

pk1 wrote:

ohsocynical wrote:Andrew Neil is giving Priti Patel a bit of a hard time....Now to see if they mention the pensioners revolt.

Did you watch yesterdays with Coburn challenging Chris Leslie, saying Alastair Darling had every intention to increase VAT if Labour had won in 2010 ?

She was most insistent, so much so that I went & found the budget 2010 red book & oh look, what does it say.....

ahead of the standard rate of VAT reverting to 17.5 per cent

ohsocynical wrote:

pk1 wrote:

ohsocynical wrote:Andrew Neil is giving Priti Patel a bit of a hard time....Now to see if they mention the pensioners revolt.

Did you watch yesterdays with Coburn challenging Chris Leslie, saying Alastair Darling had every intention to increase VAT if Labour had won in 2010 ?

She was most insistent, so much so that I went & found the budget 2010 red book & oh look, what does it say.....

ahead of the standard rate of VAT reverting to 17.5 per cent

p192, http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... mplete.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

so hardly increasing VAT - merely reverting to the rate it had been before he cut it temporarily !


I've just finished reading Alistair Darling's book about the period he was Chancellor...He was absolutely against raising VAT. And yes he wanted to lower it for a while when it was obvious things were going to get tough, and then, when things picked up, to bring it back up in stages to its original level. If I read the book correctly Brown wasn't so keen on it.

rearofthestore wrote:

SpinningHugo wrote:

rearofthestore wrote:Good Morning
A new, very large sample, yougov poll just out for the Times.
Sample size 8271 with very little weighting
CON 34% LAB 33% LD 8% UKIP 14% GREEN 5% SNP/PC 5%
Unweighted just about even CON & LAB slight (CON lead less than 1/2%)
However in the age groups LAB lead convincingly in all but the 60+ agegroup (where Con lead is 14%%) so perhaps Cameron's performance at AGEUK was not just ill judged but stupid.

Link? Where does it say unweighted? That is bad news if those are the raw numbers.

http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cu ... eTimes.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

utopiandreams wrote:@frightful-oik

Are you paying attention?

ephemerid wrote:

ohsocynical wrote:

Lonewolfie wrote:WRT OGRFGs' presentational style (as discussed yesterday)...

I've always seen the Empty Chicken as a bit of a 'low-rent' Tory Bliar - in that there was some sort of direct input into Bliars 'stage presence' (when his elbows mysteriously started to hang slightly further away from his body and the backs of the hands faced forwards/thumb upwards on top of clenched hand to make a particular point...a la the worst POTUS evaaah, Dubya...apparently (I heard from somewhere) this is because it give the impression of 'broad shoulders', 'gravitas' and 'masculinity' (In an asexual way, if that's possible). Yesterdays' performance reminded me very much of a 'warm-up' act at a regional small business invitation evening, trying to enliven the crowd in preparation for the big important person to come on stage and deliver his really serious message...but failing with all the jokes, unable to create a positive ambience and so reverting to attempted gentle bonhomie with said crowd to keep them on (his) side....the word 'unstatesmanlike' doesn't really do him justice. Is that really the best thing the Tories have got going for them?...I think we may see his impression of a clouncy funt before May the 7th....it would be very good if it were at one of the debates (assuming he turns up).

I'm 70 and believe me he was talking down to those pensioners. Some people - not all I hasten to add, but a lot, tend to speak to us as if we're children once we show our age.


I'll allow some of us might have slowed down in the brain box department along with our bodies, but some of us haven't and there's nothing worse than being spoken to in that way. Even doctors do it. They get the sharp end of my tongue when they do.

It's odd, isn't it?

I suspect Cameron has this idea that all women over 60 are sweet biddable little ladies, who look like Miss Marple - forgetting that she had a mind like a razor and a tongue like a whip.....and is fictional!
He probably thinks of older men as retired golf-club faux-military types, full of Scotch and reactionary opinion - he probably thinks they only speak in harrumphs signifying agreement with his views.

Show's 66. He's a pensioner. He is rampantly left-wing, got spied on by government when he was an activist with CND and the NCCL, still does his festivals etc. and earned his living for twenty years managing outdoor rock and roll events.
Cameron wouldn't recognise a man like that. Many people think that pensioners are old and past it when the truth is that most of them have another two decades of useful and active life to go. They're hardly falling to bits.

Many of the people who volunteer for charity are retired people - they see the results of policies. Many people over 60 have children struggling and grandchildren with a very uncertain future. Many of the activists and campaigners for cancer and Alzheimers' charities are pensioners; AgeUK, AgeConcern and other groups rely on the older people in their ranks to raise funds and formulate policy.

Cameron has clearly never met people like this. He is so insulated from real life, and he thinks the electorate (of any age) is so thick that they will believe his lies in the face of all the evidence they live with on a daily basis.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when you let rip at your GP, OhSo.

Can I come with you next time?

citizenJA wrote:

ohsocynical wrote:

pk1 wrote: Did you watch yesterdays with Coburn challenging Chris Leslie, saying Alastair Darling had every intention to increase VAT if Labour had won in 2010 ?

She was most insistent, so much so that I went & found the budget 2010 red book & oh look, what does it say.....

p192, http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... mplete.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

so hardly increasing VAT - merely reverting to the rate it had been before he cut it temporarily !


I've just finished reading Alistair Darling's book about the period he was Chancellor...He was absolutely against raising VAT. And yes he wanted to lower it for a while when it was obvious things were going to get tough, and then, when things picked up, to bring it back up in stages to its original level. If I read the book correctly Brown wasn't so keen on it.

Darling's book is my next read, Ohso. Overall, what's your opinion? Generally speaking?

pk1 wrote:

ohsocynical wrote:Andrew Neil is giving Priti Patel a bit of a hard time....Now to see if they mention the pensioners revolt.

Did you watch yesterdays with Coburn challenging Chris Leslie, saying Alastair Darling had every intention to increase VAT if Labour had won in 2010 ?

She was most insistent, so much so that I went & found the budget 2010 red book & oh look, what does it say.....

ahead of the standard rate of VAT reverting to 17.5 per cent

p192, http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... mplete.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

so hardly increasing VAT - merely reverting to the rate it had been before he cut it temporarily !

The lies that get spouted on politics shows seriously piss me off.

StephenDolan wrote:Shapps lying again.

Grant Shapps did not publish own name on marketing website, analysis finds

http://gu.com/p/47vqp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Will he now rule out a rise in VAT?

Cameron: In 43 days time I plan to arrange his retirement, but he’s right, straight answers deserve straight questions and the answer is Yes.

Labour rules out increasing national insurance

Ed Balls, the shadow chancellor, has just announced that Labour will not raise national insurance. This is what he told a briefing with journalists.

We will make it clear in the manifesto Labour will not be raising NI. That will be a clear pledge from us.

straight answers deserve straight questions

frightful_oik wrote:Clarkson's been sacked by the way. Good riddance I say.

ephemerid wrote:I've been asked by my PPC to make a statement on his campaign leaflets (he wants a pic too, but I'm trying to avoid that)

I've said - "I'm voting Labour because it is the moral thing to do. I think some people will not survive another Tory-led government, and it is the poor and vulnerable who have suffered the most in recent years"

I need to say something positive about Labour's policies - short and snappy - suggestions, anyone?

ephemerid wrote:I've been asked by my PPC to make a statement on his campaign leaflets (he wants a pic too, but I'm trying to avoid that)

I've said - "I'm voting Labour because it is the moral thing to do. I think some people will not survive another Tory-led government, and it is the poor and vulnerable who have suffered the most in recent years"

I need to say something positive about Labour's policies - short and snappy - suggestions, anyone?

ephemerid wrote:I've been asked by my PPC to make a statement on his campaign leaflets (he wants a pic too, but I'm trying to avoid that)

I've said - "I'm voting Labour because it is the moral thing to do. I think some people will not survive another Tory-led government, and it is the poor and vulnerable who have suffered the most in recent years"

I need to say something positive about Labour's policies - short and snappy - suggestions, anyone?

ephemerid wrote:I've been asked by my PPC to make a statement on his campaign leaflets (he wants a pic too, but I'm trying to avoid that)

I've said - "I'm voting Labour because it is the moral thing to do. I think some people will not survive another Tory-led government, and it is the poor and vulnerable who have suffered the most in recent years"

I need to say something positive about Labour's policies - short and snappy - suggestions, anyone?

ohsocynical wrote:

ephemerid wrote:I've been asked by my PPC to make a statement on his campaign leaflets (he wants a pic too, but I'm trying to avoid that)

I've said - "I'm voting Labour because it is the moral thing to do. I think some people will not survive another Tory-led government, and it is the poor and vulnerable who have suffered the most in recent years"

I need to say something positive about Labour's policies - short and snappy - suggestions, anyone?

Conscience driven policies. Conscience driven supporters.

According to James Forsyth in this week’s Spectator, David Cameron is actively preparing for a second coalition with the Lib Dems. Here’s an extract. (Andrew Sparrow, Guardian)

ephemerid wrote:I've been asked by my PPC to make a statement on his campaign leaflets (he wants a pic too, but I'm trying to avoid that)

I've said - "I'm voting Labour because it is the moral thing to do. I think some people will not survive another Tory-led government, and it is the poor and vulnerable who have suffered the most in recent years"

I need to say something positive about Labour's policies - short and snappy - suggestions, anyone?

SpinningHugo wrote:

ephemerid wrote:I've been asked by my PPC to make a statement on his campaign leaflets (he wants a pic too, but I'm trying to avoid that)

I've said - "I'm voting Labour because it is the moral thing to do. I think some people will not survive another Tory-led government, and it is the poor and vulnerable who have suffered the most in recent years"

I need to say something positive about Labour's policies - short and snappy - suggestions, anyone?

You need something that will appeal to undecided voters. You aren't trying to appeal to people who will vote Labour anyway.

Using the word 'moral' comes across as sanctimonious. I know you think the Tories are immoral (and I think some of what they have done is immoral, and not just wrong) but that won't persuade the waverers.

Something like

"I'm voting Labour because I believe in justice. We should vote for the party that will make us feel proud of where we live, a country that is judged by how it treats the elderly and vulnerable, whilst giving the best possible start for the young."

Transcript of Grant Shapps on BBC World at One...

MARTHA KEARNEY:
Of course Grant Shapps, you got into trouble recently by saying on LBC that you didn’t have a second job when you were an MP, when in fact you did, which you described as a ‘screw-up’?

GRANT SHAPPS:
Yeah, well this was seven, eight, nine, ten years ago so I just…just…got a date wrong...

[transcript continues - it didn't get any better for Grant Shapps or Michael Green]

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1145832 ... unanswered

SpinningHugo wrote:

ephemerid wrote:I've been asked by my PPC to make a statement on his campaign leaflets (he wants a pic too, but I'm trying to avoid that)

I've said - "I'm voting Labour because it is the moral thing to do. I think some people will not survive another Tory-led government, and it is the poor and vulnerable who have suffered the most in recent years"

I need to say something positive about Labour's policies - short and snappy - suggestions, anyone?

You need something that will appeal to undecided voters. You aren't trying to appeal to people who will vote Labour anyway.

Using the word 'moral' comes across as sanctimonious. I know you think the Tories are immoral (and I think some of what they have done is immoral, and not just wrong) but that won't persuade the waverers.

Something like

"I'm voting Labour because I believe in justice. We should vote for the party that will make us feel proud of where we live, a country that is judged by how it treats the elderly and vulnerable, whilst giving the best possible start for the young."

Grant Shapps did not publish own name on marketing website, analysis finds
Despite claims, detailed checks of web archive fail to show any mention of Tory chair’s name alongside that of his alias, Michael Green

Grant Shapps, the Tory party chair, did not “permanently publish” his full name alongside the alias he used when he operated as an “online marketing millionaire” despite claiming that he did so, according to an analysis of hundreds of pages of his website.

The cabinet minister – who as chairman has a pivotal role in the party’s election campaign – has defended casting himself as Michael Green of software firm How To Corp by saying that his real name was “permanently published on the company’s main website”.

Until recently this claim could not be easily verified as the company’s webpages have been removed from the internet.

However, the Guardian has discovered a web archive that has kept copies of more than 700 instances of How To Corp’s homepage and Michael Green “biography” page between 2002 and 2007. A detailed analysis has failed to show any mention of “Grant Shapps” on any of the firm’s webpages examined by the Guardian.

[further text]

It has also emerged that Shapps claimed more than £2,400 in public funds for printing through his own company. The money was paid out via parliamentary expenses five times between 2005 and 2007 for the printing of postcards, letterheads and posters by PrintHouse Corporation, a company based in Acton, London, that Shapps founded and owns.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ysis-finds" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo wrote:

ephemerid wrote:I've been asked by my PPC to make a statement on his campaign leaflets (he wants a pic too, but I'm trying to avoid that)

I've said - "I'm voting Labour because it is the moral thing to do. I think some people will not survive another Tory-led government, and it is the poor and vulnerable who have suffered the most in recent years"

I need to say something positive about Labour's policies - short and snappy - suggestions, anyone?

You need something that will appeal to undecided voters. You aren't trying to appeal to people who will vote Labour anyway.

Using the word 'moral' comes across as sanctimonious. I know you think the Tories are immoral (and I think some of what they have done is immoral, and not just wrong) but that won't persuade the waverers.

Something like

"I'm voting Labour because I believe in justice. We should vote for the party that will make us feel proud of where we live, a country that is judged by how it treats the elderly and vulnerable, whilst giving the best possible start for the young."

ephemerid wrote:

ohsocynical wrote:

ephemerid wrote:I've been asked by my PPC to make a statement on his campaign leaflets (he wants a pic too, but I'm trying to avoid that)

I've said - "I'm voting Labour because it is the moral thing to do. I think some people will not survive another Tory-led government, and it is the poor and vulnerable who have suffered the most in recent years"

I need to say something positive about Labour's policies - short and snappy - suggestions, anyone?

Conscience driven policies. Conscience driven supporters.

Ooooh! That's good, OhSo.

May I nick it?

Battleground Britain: Lib Dems face uphill battle to hold Taunton Deane
Voters in Liberal Democrat heartland of Somerset wary of accepting apologies and fresh promises after party’s record in coalition

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... nton-deane

PorFavor wrote:@ SpinningHugo

I think that's pretty good. I've taken the liberty of paring it down a bit, though, since I'm guessing space will be an issue.

"I'm voting for the party that will make me feel proud about how we treat the elderly and vulnerable, whilst giving the best possible start for the young. I'm voting Labour."...

SpinningHugo wrote:

ephemerid wrote:I've been asked by my PPC to make a statement on his campaign leaflets (he wants a pic too, but I'm trying to avoid that)

I've said - "I'm voting Labour because it is the moral thing to do. I think some people will not survive another Tory-led government, and it is the poor and vulnerable who have suffered the most in recent years"

I need to say something positive about Labour's policies - short and snappy - suggestions, anyone?

You need something that will appeal to undecided voters. You aren't trying to appeal to people who will vote Labour anyway.

Using the word 'moral' comes across as sanctimonious. I know you think the Tories are immoral (and I think some of what they have done is immoral, and not just wrong) but that won't persuade the waverers.

Something like

"I'm voting Labour because I believe in justice. We should vote for the party that will make us feel proud of where we live, a country that is judged by how it treats the elderly and vulnerable, whilst giving the best possible start for the young."

Some 25 years ago now, in 1990, a young Grant Shapps hired me as the sole employee of his profitable live bait vending business, House of Maggots, which I didn’t over firmly deny in the Observer last March. Grant Shapps and I spent many a moonlit night at popular Suffolk angling spots filling roadside fridges with comatose larvae, discarding maggots that failed to thrive, talking about our dreams. But who was the Grant Shapps that I imagined I knew all those years ago?

I leaned against the outside wall of a public toilet near a building site on the banks of the Tay and rang a mobile number Grant Shapps had given me 25 years ago...Grant Shapps, identifiably and audibly Grant Shapps, snapped “Who gave you this number?” Instead of asking for Grant Shapps, I said: “Is Michael Green there?” “Michael Green is here,” came the reply, “but who and where, I wonder, do you imagine you are, my meddling maggot?”

ohsocynical wrote:

letsskiptotheleft wrote:Speculation will no doubt continue as to who will replace the colossus who currently leads the Tory party, I agree that the names mentioned will probably in time fade away. But the up and comers suggested here are a dream for Labour.

Priti Patel, Philip Lee, Stephen Crabb (much hilarity for ohso and RR no doubt) Nicky Morgan, Esther McVey, Liz Truss, it's so bad I am surprised Julie Bailey's cheerleader wasn't mentioned.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general ... xpect.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Philip Lee has about as much personality as a dead fish....

Half of 2010 Lib Dem voters said they will definitely or may possibly vote SNP in May while 44 per cent of former Labour voters and 20 per cent of former Conservative voters said the same.

Today’s YouGov poll of 8,271 UK voters, including 633 in Scotland, suggests the SNP could be on course to take about half of former Liberal Democrat and Labour voters in Scotland, and even a fifth of former Conservative voters.

PorFavor wrote:@ SpinningHugo

I think that's pretty good. I've taken the liberty of paring it down a bit, though, since I'm guessing space will be an issue.

"I'm voting for the party that will make me feel proud about how we treat the elderly and vulnerable, whilst giving the best possible start for the young. I'm voting Labour."



Oh - and somebody called Zayn Malik has left something called One Direction (presumably another beat combo).

frightful_oik wrote:I wonder if the Graun will resurrect Malcolm Tucker for this election campaign? I quite enjoyed his robust insights.

Some good finds by CJA today. Spotters' badge for you.