FlyTheNest

ohsocynical wrote:I posted earlier that as a working class person I didn't know what Labour could do to swing UKIP voters back to them.

I think I do, but without Labour being in power it won't happen.

Masses of Social housing. Better wages, and stopping the importation of cheap labour.
Make their lives a bit easier so that they can afford to take a holiday, or buy a big TV. Or have a drink and a take away a couple of times a week. Even treat themselves to something new, even if it is from Primark.
Once they have that, the majority of them will stop fretting about immigrants...I guarantee it.
But, and it's a huge but, the only way that's going to happen is for Labour to get in but they can't while those at the bottom of the ladder are hard done by and needing someone else to blame.

It's a never ending circle.

citizenJA wrote:

One of two rail unions planning bank holiday industrial action has called off its strike after receiving a new pay offer from Network Rail. Manuel Cortes, general secretary of the TSSA, said:

"Our negotiating team at Acas has received a revised offer from Network Rail. As a result of this, they have suspended the planned industrial action, pending the outcome of a meeting of our workplace representatives next week."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32832191" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RMT haven't reached agreement with National Rail yet.
Their strike isn't called off at this time.

My best to you all, comrades.

After four days of talks at conciliation service Acas between your union and Network Rail management, the company has tabled a revised offer. Your Executive Committee has considered this offer and decided to suspend all industrial action which had been scheduled to take place on Monday 25th May and Tuesday 26th May 2015.

1h ago14:04

[Liz] Kendall says the problem the Labour’s proposed energy price freeze was that people did not believe it.[sic] (Politics Blog, Guardian)

pk1 wrote:

citizenJA wrote:

One of two rail unions planning bank holiday industrial action has called off its strike after receiving a new pay offer from Network Rail. Manuel Cortes, general secretary of the TSSA, said:

"Our negotiating team at Acas has received a revised offer from Network Rail. As a result of this, they have suspended the planned industrial action, pending the outcome of a meeting of our workplace representatives next week."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32832191" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RMT haven't reached agreement with National Rail yet.
Their strike isn't called off at this time.

My best to you all, comrades.

It is:

After four days of talks at conciliation service Acas between your union and Network Rail management, the company has tabled a revised offer. Your Executive Committee has considered this offer and decided to suspend all industrial action which had been scheduled to take place on Monday 25th May and Tuesday 26th May 2015.

(my bold)
http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/industrial-a ... nded21515/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:

JustMom wrote:

TheGrimSqueaker wrote: Reading between the lines on his Twitter output I suspect he wouldn't need much convincing, the articles he has written over the past week do read like some sort of personal manifesto.

Would he be any good do you think ?

He has been around since God was a boy but never made the jump to the top table; whether that is through lack of ability, bad luck or a mixture of the two, difficult to call, certainly a few missteps along the way. But his entry would shake things up a little, that is for sure.

1h ago14:09

Q: Do you think the new leader should have to be confirmed again after three years or so?

Kendall says that is an interesting idea. MPs have to be reconfirmed by the Labour party. Leaders should have to show they are up to the job.(Politics Blog, Guardian)

Q: Would you back changes to the party rules to allow a leader to undergo re-election after three years or so?

Kendall says the Labour party should have confidence in its new leader. (Politics Blog, Guardian)

pk1 wrote:

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:

JustMom wrote: Would he be any good do you think ?

He has been around since God was a boy but never made the jump to the top table; whether that is through lack of ability, bad luck or a mixture of the two, difficult to call, certainly a few missteps along the way. But his entry would shake things up a little, that is for sure.

He's not got a hope in hell.

If people are saying "Liz, who?" about Kendall, they sure as hell won't have a clue who Trickett is.

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:

pk1 wrote:

TheGrimSqueaker wrote: He has been around since God was a boy but never made the jump to the top table; whether that is through lack of ability, bad luck or a mixture of the two, difficult to call, certainly a few missteps along the way. But his entry would shake things up a little, that is for sure.

He's not got a hope in hell.

If people are saying "Liz, who?" about Kendall, they sure as hell won't have a clue who Trickett is.

To be fair they said "David who?" about Cameron, but I tend to agree with you. As for Liz Kendall, not for me thank you.

ohsocynical wrote:

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:

pk1 wrote: He's not got a hope in hell.

If people are saying "Liz, who?" about Kendall, they sure as hell won't have a clue who Trickett is.

To be fair they said "David who?" about Cameron, but I tend to agree with you. As for Liz Kendall, not for me thank you.

Kendall is in favour of Free schools too.

frightful_oik wrote:Trickett will be 69 going on 70 at the next election. Shouldn't matter but it would.

PorFavor wrote:It's a shame that Sadiq Khan's gone of in what I'm sure will be a fruitless pursuit of the London Mayoral Labour nomination.

It's a much bigger shame that Ed Miliband is no longer the leader.

RobertSnozers wrote:

StephenDolan wrote:"Wealth creation" and "Aspiration"

Fuck off. Just. Fuck. Off.

Because nothing symbolises the Labour Party like I want to be loaded, irrespective of the ways and means hey LK? Show me the polling data related to specific Labour manifesto pledges that show this is the way to go. Just one.

I suspect a lot of it is more about presentation than the actual substance of the policies, and more about placating the media than winning over voters. As far as the polls are concerned, I remember YouGov showing that most people felt that Labour was anti-business, and that this was bad for the economy, so it all fed into the narrative of economic incapability. It seems that the business community thought this as well. The fact was that in many respects, what with policies for SMEs and support for remaining in the EU, there was a lot that wasn't anti-business about Labour under Ed but that didn't cut through the 'Red Ed' perception.

I'm torn between not wanting to lose the soul of the party and not wanting to gift the Tories yet another term. The fact is that the last incarnation of Labour, for all we generally supported it on FTN, it didn't win enough people over, and most of that was about perception - 'weak, wasteful, tax-and-spend Labour' in England and Wales, and 'Red Tories' in Scotland. They couldn't both be right but enough people believed one or the other.

Claudia Chwalisz ‏@ClaudiaChwalisz 44 minutes ago

How did young people vote in 2015? Turnout amongst 18-24yo up from 52 to 58% from 2010. 41% amongst them voted Labour

http://theconversation.com/how-did-youn ... ture-41650

StephenDolan wrote:"Wealth creation" and "Aspiration"

Fuck off. Just. Fuck. Off.

Because nothing symbolises the Labour Party like I want to be loaded, irrespective of the ways and means hey LK? Show me the polling data related to specific Labour manifesto pledges that show this is the way to go. Just one.

Tonibel wrote:

StephenDolan wrote:"Wealth creation" and "Aspiration"

Fuck off. Just. Fuck. Off.

Because nothing symbolises the Labour Party like I want to be loaded, irrespective of the ways and means hey LK? Show me the polling data related to specific Labour manifesto pledges that show this is the way to go. Just one.

We need less aspiration and more hope.

mikems wrote:I think that all this talk from the leadership candidates misses the blooming point by a mile. We will never be able to please the reactionary media, they will never support us, and we shouldn't waste our time trying to placate them and appear reasonable to them.

We need our own media. We used to have it, but it was all allowed to slip out of our hands and into the grasp of Murdoch and other capitalists.

We also need to rebuild the labour movement. Hunty talked about this yesterday, and, while we must accept that some things have gone forever simply because times change, the labour movement should be trying to find new ways of establishing itself at the centre of our communities again.

And we need a strategy, some idea of the sort of society we want to create and some ideas on how we get there. And all of that should come from a renewed labour movement.

Moving a bit to the left or right now will make no long term difference to the movement. Tactics won't win wars. Strategy wins wars and we simply haven't got a worthwhile strategy and have nothing to aim for at the moment.

TechnicalEphemera wrote:

Tonibel wrote:

StephenDolan wrote:"Wealth creation" and "Aspiration"

Fuck off. Just. Fuck. Off.

Because nothing symbolises the Labour Party like I want to be loaded, irrespective of the ways and means hey LK? Show me the polling data related to specific Labour manifesto pledges that show this is the way to go. Just one.

We need less aspiration and more hope.

Liz Kendall can get lost as far as I am concerned. Useless candidate, if I want a Tory I can vote for Cameron.

Liz Kendall: Labour must ditch 'fantasy' that Britain has moved to the left

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... p-election" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Lots of people told me during the election they couldn’t see Ed as Prime Minister. But we didn’t lose because of Ed’s personality. We lost because of our politics," she said.

"We win when we offer hope and opportunity, not merely sympathy and grievance. And we win when we set out a clear direction for our country, not just a collection of causes and criticisms. Winning next time will require real courage – and I don’t just mean courage against predictable bogeymen."

"When it comes to the public services I am firmly on the side of the public. The clue is in the name. Services should revolve around the people who use them - not the other way round – and be fit for the future, not stuck in the past."

"As leader, I’m not going to waste time obsessing about school structures. If a school is providing a great education – whether it’s a local authority, academy or free school – we will back it. Full stop. What’s more, if someone wants to help run their school, they deserve credit not criticism," she said.

"Under my leadership, Labour will no longer stand by while the Prime Minister weakens our country and allows the world to become less secure. That means insisting that the UK maintains our basic NATO commitment to continue spending two percent on defence.

"As leader of the Opposition I will hold David Cameron to account for Britain’s promise to our allies and I’ll oppose him if he breaks it."

"There’s no point in saying you believe in economic credibility, and being careful with taxpayers money, if the public services that money pays for are a reform free zone. On business, I want to change our whole approach, not just set up a new committee."

"When Labour loses we do one of three things. We decide we didn’t win because we weren’t left wing enough – the fantasy.
We decide we can avoid the really tough decisions because they’re just too uncomfortable – the fudge. Or we decide that winning is too important and that we will do whatever it takes – the way forward," she said.

"There is a real and fundamental choice in this leadership contest. We’ve just fought an election on a traditional platform and suffered a terrible defeat. We don’t just need to change a little bit here or there where its easy - and then have a whole sea of no go areas because they’re too difficult, or they’ll upset someone, maybe someone powerful."

Asked if she was the 'Blairite' candidate, Ms Kendall replied that she didn't want to 'go back to the past', but pointed out that Blair had won three elections. "I'm a moderniser who's true to our values," she said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/05 ... 1432218873" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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http://www.lizforleader.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... p-election
which is why I say can these lot please just join the Tories and pull them to the left and leave Labour to people who aren't some kind of Tory.

Liz Kendall's Labour leadership website name hijacked by troll
Contender learns harsh lesson in web campaigning as near-identical domain name links to frontrunner Andy Burnham’s page and Rick Astley video

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... d-by-troll" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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http://www.lizforleader.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 wrote:People I knew who were aspirational were the wives of "self made men" who put on posh accents and moved to cheshire. I thought of it as Annie Walter Syndrome.

And now for a lie down in a darkened room.

ephemerid wrote:I have just read an interesting post on the Polly Toynbee thread - from someone called Simon Thorpe who has a fascinating CIF profile.

He says that in the UK there are £2 Quadrillion's-worth of financial transactions.
This is a figure that's too big for me to understand....

Mr.Thorpe reckons that the total tax revenue is £513.6 Billion.
But a Financial Transaction Tax could do this -
Set at 0.016% it could eliminate public sector debt in 5 years;
Set at 0.025% it could cover the cost of all government expenditure;
Set at 0.04% it could pay an unconditional basic income of £1,000 a month to every man, woman and child in the UK.

I have no idea if his calculations are correct - but judging by his posting history and profile, I'm inclined to think he is.

letsskiptotheleft wrote:I write that not as one with far left views, I am more pragmatic than that, I grew in a solidly working class home, mother a housewife, father a miner, I didn't have the luxury of education after I left school, worked in a factory where every year we had good paid holidays, a guaranteed 3% pay rise and reasonable conditions. People like me weren't and aren't interested in wealth creation, I could clean cars on the side of the road, fair play to those who do and some knob would class it as wealth creation, some of the slimiest toads in the country are deemed as creaters of wealth, all bollocks of course, and as soon as someone going for the leadership talks about people I once was, happy with a reasonable wage, paid my bills and a bit to spend and save the better, cut out this wealth creation and aspiration bollocks.

letsskiptotheleft wrote:If Liz Kendall wants my vote she's going the wrong way about it. I have no aspiration and I do not generate wealth, I work, most days bloody hard. I also work in the public sector these days, much maligned of course and I notice the creeping in of "the UK is a 7 day a week economy" so no doubt the remuneration people like me get for working weekends and unsocial hours will be more in the spotlight. I doubt Kendall on present form will be too bothered to stand up and be counted there, more interested in aspiration, whatever the fuck that means and wealth creating.

I write that not as one with far left views, I am more pragmatic than that, I grew in a solidly working class home, mother a housewife, father a miner, I didn't have the luxury of education after I left school, worked in a factory where every year we had good paid holidays, a guaranteed 3% pay rise and reasonable conditions. People like me weren't and aren't interested in wealth creation, I could clean cars on the side of the road, fair play to those who do and some knob would class it as wealth creation, some of the slimiest toads in the country are deemed as creaters of wealth, all bollocks of course, and as soon as someone going for the leadership talks about people I once was, happy with a reasonable wage, paid my bills and a bit to spend and save the better, cut out this wealth creation and aspiration bollocks.

university of the big W wrote:The character of Annie has been noted as "snobbish"[1] and "snooty"[2] due to her condescending attitude and delusions of grandeur.[3] Despite this, Annie proved to be one of the show's most popular characters and Speed received more fan mail than any other cast member at the time. For her service, Speed was later declared a "national treasure" by the media and received an MBE in 1977

letsskiptotheleft wrote:If Liz Kendall wants my vote she's going the wrong way about it. I have no aspiration and I do not generate wealth, I work, most days bloody hard. I also work in the public sector these days, much maligned of course and I notice the creeping in of "the UK is a 7 day a week economy" so no doubt the remuneration people like me get for working weekends and unsocial hours will be more in the spotlight. I doubt Kendall on present form will be too bothered to stand up and be counted there, more interested in aspiration, whatever the fuck that means and wealth creating.

I write that not as one with far left views, I am more pragmatic than that, I grew in a solidly working class home, mother a housewife, father a miner, I didn't have the luxury of education after I left school, worked in a factory where every year we had good paid holidays, a guaranteed 3% pay rise and reasonable conditions. People like me weren't and aren't interested in wealth creation, I could clean cars on the side of the road, fair play to those who do and some knob would class it as wealth creation, some of the slimiest toads in the country are deemed as creaters of wealth, all bollocks of course, and as soon as someone going for the leadership talks about people I once was, happy with a reasonable wage, paid my bills and a bit to spend and save the better, cut out this wealth creation and aspiration bollocks.

What should, could and will Cameron get from his EU renegotiation?
http://www.capx.co/what-should-could-an ... gotiation/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

letsskiptotheleft wrote:Ohso and JA, ta very much, getting a tad frustrated with the language leadership contenders are using, no doubt the "aspiration" critique is aimed at the south east, well guess what, there are those living there who want the same as others in other parts of the country, a reasonable wage, chance of a house and a bit left over.