Sat 26 & Sun 27 Sept 2015 - Start of Labour Conference

Post by **refitman** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 2:45 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Are there any Spurs supporters on here?

I imagine they're feeling fairly chipper. Think my City supporting neighbour might be a little glum.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 2:59 pm

If anyone wants to keep up with the Twitter Labour hashtag...

https://twitter.com/hashtag/Lab15?src=hash&lang=en-gb

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 3:00 pm

PorFavor wrote:
John McDonnell has 'fallen into Osborne's trap' says Caroline Lucas

Green party leader says shadow chancellor’s decision to back proposed fiscal charter reinforces Tories’ austerity narrative (Guardian)
St Lucas (TM yahyah) wades in. Oh, well. The entente cordiale didn't last long, did it?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... line-lucas

Edited

To remove space

Edited again

Spaced out today, it would seem. The sun's gone to my head.

I see she reckons McDonnell saying investment isn't included is "small print". It's the whole point.

I said before the vote for the Fiscal Charter was right. Had the Labour left bothered to argue for it and call out the rubbish the Greens, SNP and Plaid said about it, we'd have all been better off.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 3:06 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
John McDonnell has 'fallen into Osborne's trap' says Caroline Lucas

Green party leader says shadow chancellor’s decision to back proposed fiscal charter reinforces Tories’ austerity narrative (Guardian)
St Lucas (TM yahyah) wades in. Oh, well. The entente cordiale didn't last long, did it?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... line-lucas

Edited

To remove space

Edited again

Spaced out today, it would seem. The sun's gone to my head.
I see she reckons McDonnell saying investment isn't included is "small print". It's the whole point.

I said before the vote for the Fiscal Charter was right. Had the Labour left bothered to argue for it and call out the rubbish the Greens, SNP and Plaid said about it, we'd have all been better off.

Wait.
What?
'Labour left'
Are you referring to the news website or Labour party 'left'?
Because Labour party 'left' has agreed about the Fiscal Charter.
That's what Lucas is criticising McDonnell for.
She doesn't understand or has decided not to understand, what McDonnell and Labour are agreeing to.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 3:08 pm

MagsNews ‏@MagsNews 6 hrs6 hours ago

Sam Cam 'sent messages to Rebekah through intermediaries in Chipping Norton shop' during phone hacking scandal

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 12062.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 3:08 pm

There were 11 rebels on the fiscal charter vote. People who helped the SNP and all go "Look, there's the principled ones, only 11!"

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 3:13 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:There were 11 rebels on the fiscal charter vote. People who helped the SNP and all go "Look, there's the principled ones, only 11!"

Live and learn

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 3:26 pm

Further to the Addenbrooke's case earlier this week I have found this article from January highlighting one of the major difficulties with Addenbrooke's and no doubt many more trusts, The patients who can’t leave hospital – as no one will make a profit (http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... kers-care-).

If one doubted Tory plans you'd suspect some may be by design as knowing the cause of problems you'd think they would be addressed. Then look at who was appointed Health Secretary and query who are and who is responsible for replacing the experienced trust managers 'forced' to relinquish their posts. 2020 seems a very long way away.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 3:32 pm

citizenJA wrote:... "God, you're a pillock!" can be 'said' with a look.
Or with a condescending lecture from a someone you used to think a friend.

Have you tried patting them on the head if you're already face to face, JA?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 3:33 pm

utopiandreams wrote:
citizenJA wrote:... "God, you're a pillock!" can be 'said' with a look.
Or with a condescending lecture from a someone you used to think a friend.
Have you tried patting them on the head if you're already face to face, JA?

No

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 3:42 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:There were 11 rebels on the fiscal charter vote. People who helped the SNP and all go "Look, there's the principled ones, only 11!"
Live and learn

Sure, but they only had to listen to the debate- eg Andrew Gwynne's speech. Instead of listening only to Osborne, and tweeting for the rest of the debate, as Lucas did.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 3:43 pm

ohsocynical wrote:MagsNews ‏@MagsNews 6 hrs6 hours ago

Sam Cam 'sent messages to Rebekah through intermediaries in Chipping Norton shop' during phone hacking scandal

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 12062.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Sam was probably upset at the renewed attention Dave was giving her, ohso

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 3:44 pm

citizenJA wrote:
utopiandreams wrote:
citizenJA wrote:... "God, you're a pillock!" can be 'said' with a look.
Or with a condescending lecture from a someone you used to think a friend.
Have you tried patting them on the head if you're already face to face, JA?
No

Fair enough, probably safer.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 4:16 pm

Homeless family numbers in B&Bs double in Reading

Number stuck there for more than six weeks soar as well

http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/readin ... e-10132076

And this is in the 'affluent' south east.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 4:25 pm

Karl Turner MP retweeted
The Cult Cat ‏@Elverojaguar 13m

There is such a great Vine attached to this tweet ... but, of course, I don't know how to embed it here. So you'll just have to toddle off to find the original if you're in a cult cat mood. It's fab - promise.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 4:32 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Karl Turner MP retweeted
The Cult Cat ‏@Elverojaguar 13m
There is such a great Vine attached to this tweet ... but, of course, I don't know how to embed it here. So you'll just have to toddle off to find the original if you're in a cult cat mood. It's fab - promise.

You can't embed Vines. Here's the link: " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 4:33 pm

: Straight talking honest politics.jpg (48.38 KiB) Viewed 6707 times

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 41m41 minutes ago
The conference stage. "Straight talking. Honest politics." #lab15

Good messaging. We all know what that means.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 4:34 pm

refitman wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Karl Turner MP retweeted
The Cult Cat ‏@Elverojaguar 13m
There is such a great Vine attached to this tweet ... but, of course, I don't know how to embed it here. So you'll just have to toddle off to find the original if you're in a cult cat mood. It's fab - promise.
You can't embed Vines. Here's the link: " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thank you refit. It's so dramatic it looks like a flamenco movement to me.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 4:41 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Homeless family numbers in B&Bs double in Reading

Number stuck there for more than six weeks soar as well

http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/readin ... e-10132076
And this is in the 'affluent' south east.

Might be worse in the south east, if the driver is the benefit cap. I wonder if Tory voters in Reading, Hastings, Medway etc considered that they might be getting poor families that other places didn't want.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 4:42 pm

James Lyons ‏@STJamesl 11m11 minutes ago
MP: "For years I’ve ignored lunatics outside conference handing out leaflets only to find they are all now inside, working for the leader."

What a nasty attitude that MP has.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 4:51 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
James Lyons ‏@STJamesl 11m11 minutes ago
MP: "For years I’ve ignored lunatics outside conference handing out leaflets only to find they are all now inside, working for the leader."
What a nasty attitude that MP has.

I'll believe it when I hear from the MP's mouth or read it from the MP's 'pen'.
Not before.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 5:23 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
James Lyons ‏@STJamesl 6m6 minutes ago
Sad milestone in Labour history tomorrow. First press v MPs conference football match in living memory not to feature @edballs

Well, at least Labour can still field a side.
Lib Dem MPs couldn't even scrape up two five-a-side teams.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 5:25 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Straight talking honest politics.jpg

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 41m41 minutes ago
The conference stage. "Straight talking. Honest politics." #lab15
Good messaging. We all know what that means.

Yes, smart branding, clear message. The colour is a bit off though, a different shade of red would look better.

On the David Miliband poll I can only assume if you tell somebody that a muppet is in fact a genius they eventually lodge it in their brains. I suspect it is just name recognition not a real choice. The Trident numbers are more interesting, I would have thought the CND lobbyists had more traction on the left than they appear to. Dodgy sample perhaps, the general population numbers are fairly expected.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 5:29 pm

Cllr.Tracy Harvey ‏@tracy_harvey 8 mins8 minutes ago

Our new Leader @JeremyCorbyn4PM speaking at #LabWomen15 - 74,500 of our new members are women

Is it me, or is that quite impressive?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 5:40 pm

Reading's also got Universal Credit this week.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/nati ... nues-today" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or at least the single people in Reading have. Can't see anything sign that it works for complex cases yet.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 5:41 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Kevin Maguire ‏@Kevin_Maguire 10m10 minutes ago
Sunderland win at Man Utd today. It's the hope that hurts
Oh blast. I'd better steer Mr Riots straight to a chair in front of the rugby when he gets in ... he'll be uber grumpy if he finds that out first. (Mind you - I think he's almost gone past the point of being disappointed by them these days.)

As it was, United won without breaking sweat. TOP OF THE LEAGUE!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 5:43 pm

Jane Merrick ‏@janemerrick23 30m30 minutes ago
Jane Merrick retweeted Amber de Botton
Am seriously worried about his allotment...

Amber de BottonVerified account
‏@AmberSkyNews
Corbyn pledges to be in Scotland at least once a month from now on. He's going up straight after conference on Thurs #lab15women

So am I. I hope he's got some good allotment neighbours and pals who will help keep it ticking over.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 5:44 pm

Stephen Bush ‏@stephenkb 27m27 minutes ago
"I realised as soon as I'd been elected that my troubles had only just begun," quips Corbz. #lab15 #labwomen15

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 5:45 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Kevin Maguire ‏@Kevin_Maguire 10m10 minutes ago
Sunderland win at Man Utd today. It's the hope that hurts
Oh blast. I'd better steer Mr Riots straight to a chair in front of the rugby when he gets in ... he'll be uber grumpy if he finds that out first. (Mind you - I think he's almost gone past the point of being disappointed by them these days.)
As it was, United won without breaking sweat. TOP OF THE LEAGUE!

Thanks be for that. It's bad enough having a tenterhooks evening with Wales v England ... he'd be entering expletive mania if it was on top of a Man Utd defeat.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 6:09 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Stephen Bush ‏@stephenkb 27m27 minutes ago
"I realised as soon as I'd been elected that my troubles had only just begun," quips Corbz. #lab15 #labwomen15

Ha! That needs a Glen Baxter cartoon to go with it.

Edit
Perhaps that should say "drawing" rather than cartoon?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 6:14 pm

No, I don't know why !

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 6:14 pm

PorFavor wrote:
John McDonnell has 'fallen into Osborne's trap' says Caroline Lucas

Green party leader says shadow chancellor’s decision to back proposed fiscal charter reinforces Tories’ austerity narrative (Guardian)
St Lucas (TM yahyah) wades in. Oh, well. The entente cordiale didn't last long, did it?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... line-lucas

Edited

To remove space

Edited again

Spaced out today, it would seem. The sun's gone to my head.

She's got a bit of a nerve to accuse Labour of falling into Tory traps, whilst merrily peddling Tory propaganda about austerity being the only way to reduce the structural deficit. Has she never heard of tax rises? Or even just using the proceeds of growth to close the gap rather than giving it away in further tax cuts and thus necessitating more austerity as Osborne is planning? She seems more interested in protecting the Green's mantle of being the only genuine anti-austerity party than helping Labour expose Tory lies and spin.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 6:21 pm

@ citizenJA

Have you seen this?

UK tried to block tougher EU car emission tests

Environment department has urged British MEPs to vote against on-road inspections of vehicles in wake of VW emissions scandal (Guardian)

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... ions-tests

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 6:22 pm

yahyah wrote:

No, I don't know why !

"Tomarrow belongs to us"?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 6:25 pm

yahyah wrote:

No, I don't know why !

"At least its not a pig's head, eh?"

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 6:27 pm

Clegg's having a go at Corbyn.
As if his stint in power was so successful. 8 MPs left and he thinks he's qualified to lecture others.

Funniest bit is ''I have seen this frequently in my time in politics: when political parties just talk to themselves they always end up losing.'' Just like all those Lib Dems did.

Clegg sounds so bitter, yesterday's man.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/hay- ... orbyn.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 6:28 pm

Willow904 wrote: She's got a bit of a nerve to accuse Labour of falling into Tory traps, whilst merrily peddling Tory propaganda about austerity being the only way to reduce the structural deficit. Has she never heard of tax rises? Or even just using the proceeds of growth to close the gap rather than giving it away in further tax cuts and thus necessitating more austerity as Osborne is planning? She seems more interested in protecting the Green's mantle of being the only genuine anti-austerity party than helping Labour expose Tory lies and spin.

There is a bit of confusion over what "austerity" means. It means reducing demand in the economy- so tax rises could come under austerity if they reduced demand. Absurdly, the Greens were calling for huge tax rises before the election, which would have effected demand.

Brown got pilloried for "stealth taxes"- some of that was fair, in that small print might show that a high profile announcement wasn't quite what it seemed. But the principle of raising tax income where it isn't easily noticed is a good one if we want to keep demand up.

Apart from his 20% VAT rate, Osborne's tried to do "stealth taxes" too, and demand has just about kept going since 2013.

As you say, Osborne's tax cuts to stimulate demand are a whole other problem. I think it's going to be hard to lower the tax threshold for income tax in the future, for example. At the moment Corbyn's been populist and suggested that the revenue can be raised from people who aren't us. I think that's going to come under pressure.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 6:31 pm

Roger,

Saw your link yesterday. Have passed on the message to Marklu that he's a "troll"!

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 6:34 pm

Re what could have been done about tax rises to reduce the deficit, this comes from 2008.

https://www.conservatives.com/~/media/f ... hx?dl=true

A Fair Fuel Stabiliser: a consultation on the future of fuel taxation

Summary
The old politics of fuel tax has become polarised between those who argue that we should cut the cost of living whatever the cost to the environment, and those who press for escalating tax on fuel whatever the cost to the economy. Instead we will take a new approach that better meets the needs of both the economy and the environment.

We call this the Fair Fuel Stabiliser.

Under a Fair Fuel Stabiliser, when fuel prices go up, fuel duty would fall. And when fuel prices go down, fuel duty would rise.

Fuel duty hasn't moved since March 2011. So what happened to that idea George?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 6:34 pm

I mean, here's a Green tax rise from before, which I agree with, a good "green" tax.

From 2010:

Reintroduce the fuel duty escalator, raising fuel duty by 8% per year. This will raise £2.2bn in 2010 rising to £10bn by 2013. In the longer run we would introduce a system of domestic carbon quotas.

How £10bn in new taxes won't effect demand, I don't know. There's surely going to be car journeys that were made before that won't be made afterwards.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 6:37 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Re what could have been done about tax rises to reduce the deficit, this comes from 2008.

https://www.conservatives.com/~/media/f ... hx?dl=true

A Fair Fuel Stabiliser: a consultation on the future of fuel taxation

Summary
The old politics of fuel tax has become polarised between those who argue that we should cut the cost of living whatever the cost to the environment, and those who press for escalating tax on fuel whatever the cost to the economy. Instead we will take a new approach that better meets the needs of both the economy and the environment.

We call this the Fair Fuel Stabiliser.

Under a Fair Fuel Stabiliser, when fuel prices go up, fuel duty would fall. And when fuel prices go down, fuel duty would rise.
Fuel duty hasn't moved since March 2011. So what happened to that idea George?

They realise that fuel tax, in particular the escalator, helped do for Major in the 90s. It's all about politics with this lot.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 6:47 pm

There's a Head of Humanities at Michaela?

Is that a real job, or a title to make him to more work?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 6:50 pm

Sticking fuel duty up when the oil price goes down would also raise the amount of VAT received as well since that's levied on the whole price including duty.

Difficult to see how Osborne can defend the charge of wanting a smaller state when there are opportunities like this going begging, and changing inheritance tax so that he receives less money.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 6:50 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Re what could have been done about tax rises to reduce the deficit, this comes from 2008.

https://www.conservatives.com/~/media/f ... hx?dl=true

A Fair Fuel Stabiliser: a consultation on the future of fuel taxation

Summary
The old politics of fuel tax has become polarised between those who argue that we should cut the cost of living whatever the cost to the environment, and those who press for escalating tax on fuel whatever the cost to the economy. Instead we will take a new approach that better meets the needs of both the economy and the environment.

We call this the Fair Fuel Stabiliser.

Under a Fair Fuel Stabiliser, when fuel prices go up, fuel duty would fall. And when fuel prices go down, fuel duty would rise.
Fuel duty hasn't moved since March 2011. So what happened to that idea George?

Also, I think, they realized that the petrol companies would just put up the price they charged if the government would knock off fuel duty...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 6:52 pm

MichaelWhite ‏@MichaelWhite 6m6 minutes ago
Most memorable Ukip conf image ? Kipper Man driving disability scooter fast through crowd with one hand, nursing foaming pint with the other

And no outrage that he was able to do this - I hope.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 6:54 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:There's a Head of Humanities at Michaela?

Is that a real job, or a title to make him to more work?

the one who's just penned the "Why I'm a Conservative"?

Save on having individual heads of history, geography & RE I guess.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 6:54 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Sticking fuel duty up when the oil price goes down would also raise the amount of VAT received as well since that's levied on the whole price including duty.

Difficult to see how Osborne can defend the charge of wanting a smaller state when there are opportunities like this going begging, and changing inheritance tax so that he receives less money.

Also the increase in the personal income tax threshold.

Cf, from the 2010 debates, David Cameron.

I would love to take everyone out of their first £10,000 of income tax, Nick. It's a beautiful idea, it's a lovely idea - we cannot afford it.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 6:57 pm

yahyah wrote:Clegg's having a go at Corbyn.
As if his stint in power was so successful. 8 MPs left and he thinks he's qualified to lecture others.

Funniest bit is ''I have seen this frequently in my time in politics: when political parties just talk to themselves they always end up losing.'' Just like all those Lib Dems did.

Clegg sounds so bitter, yesterday's man.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/hay- ... orbyn.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well I hope he isn't such a hypocrite as to have a go at Corbyn about not having appointed a woman into one of the so called top jobs. That would be outrageous from the man who was constantly being criticised by those within his own party for the lack of Lib Dem women in cabinet or official roles.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 6:58 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:There's a Head of Humanities at Michaela?

Is that a real job, or a title to make him to more work?
the one who's just penned the "Why I'm a Conservative"?

Save on having individual heads of history, geography & RE I guess.

Yeah, that one.

Ah, I was thinking they had those too. Doesn't look like they have.

As with WLFS, the senior staff look very young. I know they've got tons of support from heavyweight governors, but might still be a problem.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 26 Sep, 2015 7:05 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:There's a Head of Humanities at Michaela?

Is that a real job, or a title to make him to more work?
the one who's just penned the "Why I'm a Conservative"?

Save on having individual heads of history, geography & RE I guess.
Yeah, that one.

Ah, I was thinking they had those too. Doesn't look like they have.

As with WLFS, the senior staff look very young. I know they've got tons of support from heavyweight governors, but might still be a problem.

He'll probably end up at a thinktank in a year or so doing 'research'.