Tuesday 24th November 2015

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:03 pm

In what way does leaving/threatening to leave an organisation by anybody assist/help to address the situation that you are unhappy with within it .What was the priority behind both joining it and overall and in what manner is that helped/assisted in leaving/threatening to leave.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:06 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:TE is entitled to his opinion but that sort of post just repeats what he has said a thousand times before and made no other point than one we know already.

While I do get that are you saying that if TE can't say anything different, even if that view is one fervently held, then TE shouldn't say anything?

howsillyofme1 wrote:You then chose to pick out Temulkar's post and I was just pointing out that his seemed to have more depth to it, than TE's previously.

I picked out Tem's post because I found it mocking, impolite and disrespectful. Quite where the depth is in ridiculing somebody escapes me.

howsillyofme1 wrote:There are plenty of posters on here who oppose Corbyn - Tubby, Willow, Anatoly to an extent and others but they make points that are provoking and interesting. TE just says Corbyn has to go and that's it - no solution, no answer to the question who could replace him etc.

I think I've already answered this. Say something different or shut up ..... that isn't the forum I joined. Ah well ....

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:09 pm

@TheGrimSqueaker

I just post BS,nobody understands,including myself.A good ploy which I usually get away with.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:11 pm

Sorry, my pic and post of the front bench Tories in the Commons yesterday seems to have created havoc to the page format, and created havoc amongst posters.

Can sympathise with you for resigning Ephie. One has to consider one's own emotional health in all this. I am finding the shenanigans within the party much more damaging to mine than any idiocy uttered by Ken Livingstone.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:13 pm

Who is Shena Niggins?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:15 pm

HindleA wrote:........

My daughter and son had a fight about who got to sit in the front seat of the car on the way home. My son had the better claim through age, but my daughter won through stubborness. My daughter cried all the way home. You see, although she had got what she wanted, she had to share the journey with the loser, who was sitting in the back seat and still felt they had the superior claim. Families, eh?

I'm not sure if this answers your deleted question, but I thought it an apt analogy, which may explain why few in the Labour party are happy at the moment.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:18 pm

If there had been a baggage-free, honest, charismatic, intelligent, moderate (in the real sense of the word - not as the media and Labour right wingers are using the word now) standing in the leadership election I'd have voted for her/him.

We are where we are. This situation hasn't come around by accident.
Why has Labour not been producing strong contenders ?

To give up asking for change, just because the media and the 'moderates' are squealing seems defeatist.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:19 pm

How would leaving the car assist in that situation?

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:20 pm

Leaving the party doesn't help, it is part of the whole sorry state of affairs. I'm not a joined up member because I thought I had joined, there was some recruitment thing a couple of years ago or so, only realised I had not really thought about it when the leadership thing came up, and then I was really not sure, since then I am a lot more sure. Whether or not he will make an electable PM isn't the wuestion now, the question is about having a group of MPs who believe there way is implicitly right to the point of sinking the party.

This is nothing to do with Corbyn, they were doing the same thing to Ed one way or another, contradictting him, undermining him, trying to shape him into their pliant amenable obedient thing. They cannot even try that with Corbyn, but I am so glad he is there, so this tendency outs itself and shows what it is really like. These are the people who foster disunity and wish to hatchet their fellow party members rather than shoe some unity against what is, in every way, the most fascist government we have ever seen. It needs to stop, Corbyn hasn't been hardline at all, he has shown willingness to shift from his personal views to accomodate consensual view. He has also been hit by the same whirlwind as Ed, and has so far weathered it fairly well and is gaining respect. The conversations have changed, and even the media are now publishing things they didn't say before, because they know that they will be read. So we are hearing simething more nuanced.

It may not do in the long term, but in the short term quite a lot has been gained. The public, who did not want a move rightward, they wanted a Labour who would fight their corner, is from where I am standing not as disatisfied as the media tries to make out, and this isn't just corbynistas, I am seeing a wide range of people feeling as though this is becoming an easier politics to engage with, they can now see choices.

There is four years to go, we have a leader who has only been in place 3 months and has already had Cameron turning a deeper puce than we have previously seen. Sometimes it takes time and we have that, even though next year is important. We also have tomorrow to come, and that is what we should be preparing for, because I'd like to bet Corbyn is. I also think it is not a coincidence that Ed has emerged right now. So I will probably sort that membership out, I wanted the full one anyway, and can manage it right now.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:20 pm

I would say to TE - Who does he think the right wingers would put forward and support?
The right wingers won't get my vote, not because they're right wing, but because of their behaviour. I don't want spoilt, whinging spiteful people in power. They are forfieting any right to my support and the more they play up, the less support they'll get. They're not only blowing it for the Labour party, they're blowing it for themselves as the amount of support for Corbyn shows.

Stupidity on an enormous scale! Unbelievable,

Post by **refitman** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:23 pm

Luke James @LEJ88

Tory MP Liam Fox just shouted "Communist" at @CarolineLucas because she said Trident was making us less safe, not more safe

How does this not result in some kind of censure?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:24 pm

I repeat what I said the other day - if people find the need to "tune out" of Labour politics at the moment because it is so frustrating, then I totally understand that. But please, don't actually leave - we are going to need all of you to make sure the party takes the right steps post-Corbyn, for one thing.

The strategy of a certain type of Blairite "bitter ender" has always been to make things as bad as possible - to ensure all the new, hope-filled recruits get fed up and depart.

Don't play their game. As already mentioned they are on the wrong side of history long term and, deep down, they know it.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:24 pm

Alan Johnson on the DP. Marvelous.

A unified, broad church, big tent, pulling together, supporting the leadership approach as preached in the past, put into action. Sigh.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:26 pm

Rebecca wrote:
HindleA wrote:Neutral question.How the ##ck does people leaving/threatening to leave the Party-Anybody -until they get what you want,help?What is the priority?
What does this actually mean?'until they get what you want,help'
Don't understand the question.

I think I do - perhaps A will correct me if I am mistaken.

I think he is asking how it helps Labour if people leave. It doesn't, particularly.
If he is asking how it helps if people leave "until they get what they want", that doesn't help Labour either.
But it is not up to me to help Labour - it is up to Labour to help me.
If I pay my dues, do my share of campaigning, and work for the party, I expect (seriously) that party to campaign on my behalf and not waste its' time watching its' MPs fight like ferrets in a sack.

I expect it to get behind the leader its' membership has chosen, and I expect the "moderates" to do what the "lefties" have had to do for nearly 20 years - ie. take it on the chin, get on with the job they're paid for, and OPPOSE.
I do not expect it to sulk in the most public and damaging way possible. I do not expect it to abstain on votes which affect our poorest just so that the ex-heirarchy can jockey for position. I expect it to fight in unity.

If that is too much to ask for - and right now it seems it is - I'd rather leave them to it, hope that some common sense and common ground eventually prevails, and use what energy I have to do the sort of campaigning I did long before I joined Labour.

I do not want to be part of a party that has no problem shafting an ex-leader who came very close to election victory and who is the best PM we haven't had yet and no problem scuppering the chances of a newly elected leader in taking the fight to the Tories.

My resignation will not make a scintilla of difference to the party - but it makes a difference to me.
More than one difference, in fact.
I do not feel that I am duty bound to campaign for a party whose PLP simply does not appear to want to oppose the government; I do not feel that I am letting the side down by being too ill to go knocking on doors in all weathers (then doing it anyway to the detriment of my health); and I get to save £3.88p every month.

I do not necessarily agree with everything Corbyn and McDonnell say. I certainly do not agree with the support the likes of Reeves gave to policies that kill people. And I definitely will never agree with people who are prepared to watch their own party disintegrate rather than temporarily sacrifice their personal ambition for the greater good.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:30 pm

Only speak for myself,not voting for Corbyn as many didn't doesn't make you a Right-winger,whatever that means.You all keep saying oppose the real enemy,all I read is either bemoaning of sides within I belong to none,refuse to be categorised,or leaving/threatening to leave/not support.You are playing the game deliberately set up..and now I am doing it.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:32 pm

Why take it so personally A ?
No one's calling you a right winger.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:34 pm

Thanks for response @Eph,to be clear it wasn't personally addressed.

Maeght · Post by **Maeght** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:39 pm

Dan Hodges in the Telegraph.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... -cult.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Really nasty. Every possible insult regurgitated.

I am stunned by such bitterness.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:40 pm

I never took it personally.I don't know if I am writing in Greek,today or something.I am saying many party members,like myself do not conveniently fall into created categories for our opponents benefit,and all I read is internal squabbling as intended.I am a ####ing member of the Labour party-that is it.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:43 pm

Ephie, we have come to different conclusions for such similar reasons! I have to respect yours, and am pretty sure you will respect mine. Isn't that what this place is about? I will dispute on occasion a person's ideas, but hope always not to be personal with it, even if I do feel impatient.

The biggest question for me is the same thing that concerns others, how to oppose what we are now faced with. I take hope from some of the votes in the Lords, and the people of principle who have stood up for things that really concern me.

This is truly about what so many felt for so long, that the Labour party had left them. These spoilt tendencies are exactly that. So the real question really ought to be about them.

Someone here said recently that Labour can't always simply respond to the Tory agenda, it needs to be different.

I dunno, be identifiable in what it does, be strong for it's own supporters. There are plenty out there, wanting the party they once belonged to.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:43 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:There are plenty of posters on here who oppose Corbyn - Tubby, Willow, Anatoly to an extent and others but they make points that are provoking and interesting. TE just says Corbyn has to go and that's it - no solution, no answer to the question who could replace him etc.
I think I've already answered this. Say something different or shut up ..... that isn't the forum I joined. Ah well ....
With respect, I think that's a slight misrepresentation. I have no objection to someone saying the same thing more than once - such is the nature of the forum that it can be necessary to repeat oneself to get the point across as posts can be lost in the midst of an ongoing discussion, or pop up at a time when not many people are about. The point of the place though, surely, is discussion. Repeating assertions that Corbyn is useless and a disaster many times without much variation is all very well but it's wearing and demoralising. If it was framed in a way that promoted discussion, rather than just lobbing an assertion from an entrenched position, it might get us somewhere. I want to engage with posts. Communication is not one-sided - nobody is saying shut up, but the discussion has to be able to move on. Pointing out why an action is painful or counter-productive is not shutting down the debate.

It's also daft less than three months after his election, and after months of certain Labour MPs and bods like Clarke, Mandelson, etc queuing up to tell the public how useless he is.

Give him a bloody chance. Give him support and help - even if only because we are only about six months away from important elections.

It matters a lot to us in Wales that we do not lose control of the Assembly in May.
The feeling that a poisonous minority may actually welcome electoral disaster, indeed be aiding it, just to get their way or to be proven right....that is horrible.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:45 pm

A. I call them right wingers because I don't like the term Blairite. Neither really describes just what their position is with the Party. I don't think they know. They remind me of spoiled children going head to head with a parent or teacher only in this case it's the electorate.
And of course we all know the cure for that. A spell on the naughty step until they learn control

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:46 pm

HindleA wrote:Thanks for response @Eph,to be clear it wasn't personally addressed.

I understand, that, A.

I'm not having a pop at anyone here - my ire is reserved for those sitting in the Mother of Parliaments who are choosing to put their own ambitions ahead of what is good for our country right now.

For me, this is not about right, left, or moderate - it's about the greater good. We are losing all the things that made this country civilised.
I could weep. And the people who can - and should - be doing something about it are failing us all.

Enough, already.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:48 pm

yahyah wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote: I think I've already answered this. Say something different or shut up ..... that isn't the forum I joined. Ah well ....
With respect, I think that's a slight misrepresentation. I have no objection to someone saying the same thing more than once - such is the nature of the forum that it can be necessary to repeat oneself to get the point across as posts can be lost in the midst of an ongoing discussion, or pop up at a time when not many people are about. The point of the place though, surely, is discussion. Repeating assertions that Corbyn is useless and a disaster many times without much variation is all very well but it's wearing and demoralising. If it was framed in a way that promoted discussion, rather than just lobbing an assertion from an entrenched position, it might get us somewhere. I want to engage with posts. Communication is not one-sided - nobody is saying shut up, but the discussion has to be able to move on. Pointing out why an action is painful or counter-productive is not shutting down the debate.
It's also daft less than three months after his election, and after months of certain Labour MPs and bods like Clarke, Mandelson, etc queuing up to tell the public how useless he is.

Give him a bloody chance. Give him support and help - even if only because we are only about six months away from important elections.

It matters a lot to us in Wales that we do not lose control of the Assembly in May.
The feeling that a poisonous minority may actually welcome electoral disaster, indeed be aiding it, just to get their way or to be proven right....that is horrible.

I'm also appalled that they might try to sabotage Sadiq Khan's chances of being Mayor of London. A good politician who might well have made a good candidate as leader of the party, he must be sickened by the shenanigans.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:52 pm

I'm sorry, I wish I'd never posted the blooming post, it has caused so much ill feeling.

My flipping point was that it is the Tories that the PLP's attention and fight should be aimed at.

Surely we can all agree on that ? If we can't, then there is a problem.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:55 pm

Thanks for making me laugh Rob.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 1:57 pm

ephemerid wrote:
HindleA wrote:Thanks for response @Eph,to be clear it wasn't personally addressed.

I understand, that, A.

I'm not having a pop at anyone here - my ire is reserved for those sitting in the Mother of Parliaments who are choosing to put their own ambitions ahead of what is good for our country right now.

For me, this is not about right, left, or moderate - it's about the greater good. We are losing all the things that made this country civilised.
I could weep. And the people who can - and should - be doing something about it are failing us all.

Enough, already.

Agree. People are dying. If they are too selfish to confront the Tories whilst being paid with our hard earned taxes, then they deserve nowt from me.
I shan't resign unless they force a leadership election but if that happens you won't see me for dust...

Corbyn is non-confrontational which is to the rebels advantage, and yet I feel it will be one of his biggest strengths if he's given half a chance. The way he tames Cameron and noisy back benchers at PMQs should be proof of that...

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 2:02 pm

FWIW,I pay my membership annually by cheque,I have still got six months left,can you get a refund on the time left?

Not to be taken seriously(maybe)

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 2:03 pm

& the pic I posted was part of this Indie article:

Jeremy Corbyn scolds Tory MPs for 'laughing at food poverty'
Labour leader said inequality, climate change, food and water security should be part of the national security review, as well as the more conventional defence measures
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 45691.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 2:08 pm

Hat for sale. Hardly used.

: $_1.JPG (8.07 KiB) Viewed 5680 times

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 2:08 pm

Only kidding

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 2:09 pm

To put it simply, we are paying them to protect our interests.

If they worked for a private company and acted like it, they'd be sacked. They know we can't do that and are taking advantage

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 2:09 pm

''Carney: No plans to abolish cash''

? What the heck ?

I think this world is moving too fast, and in the wrong direction, for me.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 2:11 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:Hat for sale. Hardly used.

$_1.JPG

Don't give up on him yet Toby.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 2:16 pm

People like Hodges only get away with it because of the squabbling.

And Cameron can only jeer the way he does and invite his cronies to when he thinks he can hold Labour or its representatives up to ridicule.

Still it sounds a lot more desperate these days, they can't kid themselves they are untouchable, they are getting close to the point where they are not carrying their own party. They can't ride a Syrian wave for long either, it is too complex a matter.

They have become very extreme, and when people start feeling it, hopefully not by losing people dear to them for any of the dire reasons we now face, then things will change. People are tiring of the nastiness too, and not wanting to get sucked into it.

As for Hodges, what does he eat, to give him such bile?

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 2:16 pm

yahyah wrote:
TobyLatimer wrote:Hat for sale. Hardly used.

$_1.JPG

Don't give up on him yet Toby.

No chance yahyah, I knew what it said on the tin, which is the reason I voted for him, he & we deserve better from the PLP.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 2:19 pm

We're disgusted at how people can still vote Tory when they are doing such damage.

I'm wondering if we're any different if we carry on supporting the party despite what the rebels are doing to it.

Genuine question. How do we support and yet show our displeasure?

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 2:22 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote: Corbyn isn't electable and he has made no attempts to be so. It is this latter point (stupidity like the CND gig, hopelessness on security) and a lack of interest in compromise (how many times is he going to humiliate Maria Eagle for example) that pretty much show he is doomed. He didn't have to behave like this, it could have worked, but as others pointed out before he was elected he doesn't know how to lead.
I would take issue with at least some of this. He has moved a lot further on a lot of things than many people thought. His shadow government contained people from all across the party. He has made compromises that some thought he never would like wearing a red poppy and swearing an oath to the queen. He has taken a less active role in CND. He seems not to be pushing some of the policies in his leadership campaign.

TechnicalEphemera wrote:The leader needs to be centre left, a serious politician with charisma, some sort of ability to judge the public mood. They also need to be acceptable to 85% of the parliamentary party.
The problem with 'centre left' is that all the current left-right labels are arbitrary and at the whim of the media and its corporate backers. The public is to the left on some issues (far more than the political class) and the right on others. There is no reason why a democratic socialist could or should not be PM. If the centre can move to the right, it can also move to the left. And there's a problem with the parliamentary party that is so out of step with the membership. Normally I would agree that the leader should have the broad support of the PLP, but the PLP should represent the membership and when they don't, what's the point of the party? The LibDems let their PLP drift way to the right of the membership, and they ended up losing most of their members, then most of their activists, then most of their seats. I'm not sure any Labour leader for the last decade has been much of a judge of the public mood, and Cameron certainly isn't - it just happens that he's not given the level of scrutiny that would make it a problem for him.

TechnicalEphemera wrote:I don't care who, anything is better than this, but I would rule out a Blairite. At the point the PLP has a candidate that meets general approval they can dump Corbyn.
Not under the rules, they can't. As we saw (nearly constantly) under Brown, attempts at coups when there is no mechanism to stage one are counter productive, as they invariably weaken the party without really affecting the leader's position. This was why nobody attempted any sort of outright challenge on Miliband, they just tried to wear away at him. That didn't work either.

I'm not sure that 'anyone is better than this' anyway. Any of the others would be getting the same level of attack from the right wing press because it's the right wing press. They just might not be getting the same sniping from within the party (although personally I think Burnham probably would).

Personally I think the PLP should be wary of undermining Corbyn because they might not like the alternative; I stand by the comments I made some months back, the person Corbyn should be most wary of is his own deputy who will not hesitate for one second to bring JC down if he thinks it is to his own advantage.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 2:24 pm

Jeremy Corbyn has some strong points. His societal (shorthand) views are a case in point and I don't think he should back down on them. Keep going on, and act like water on a stone. It's worthwhile and will, I believe, yield fruit. Other ideas of his, whilst worthy, are things that the electorate (even the Labour electorate) are just not ready for. They're water on a boulder stuff and, in the short- and mid-term, only act as a distraction.That's where he needs to be pragmatic. My worry is - he won't\can't do that.

It's hard to be totally anti-Corbyn because I recognise that the same "antis" within the Labour Party and within the media are the same as those who did for Ed Miliband. And I won't accept a "moderate" (rather than a moderate!) because they are simply a destructive and anti-social grouping looking out for their own advancement and future business prospects.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 2:25 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
The leader needs to be centre left, a serious politician with charisma, some sort of ability to judge the public mood. They also need to be acceptable to 85% of the parliamentary party.

Charisma? CHARISMA? Cameron has charisma. You can stuff that where the sun don't shine.

I and many, many people like me want a decent, clever - as in knows what he's on about, honest, straightforward politician.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 2:26 pm

I was quite taken back by this pic of a little statuette featuring Dave that was printed at the top of Sparrow's blog the other day.

: 4928.jpg (58.36 KiB) Viewed 5619 times

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul to waste

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 2:33 pm

I'm fairly sure I have mentioned this before, but if Burnham, Cooper or even the slim chance that Leicester Liz had somehow miraculously won in September - I would have no doubt have been miffed but I'm certain that I wouldn't be wanting to get rid of any of them so soon after being elected.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 2:35 pm

yahyah wrote:& the pic I posted was part of this Indie article:

Jeremy Corbyn scolds Tory MPs for 'laughing at food poverty'
Labour leader said inequality, climate change, food and water security should be part of the national security review, as well as the more conventional defence measures
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 45691.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Shocking that they could do that when food banks are having expand and hospitals are seeing so much more malnutrition. We are such a dependent nation with regard to food, but what do they understand?

I am truly glad that all these things are being raised, because looking at the whole fracking license thing, if this lot did their worst I can't imagine what our water supplies would look like, and thats without all the reduction in all sorts of protections and regulation that has been there for good reasons.

I've seen climate change firsthand, and recently, and heard how monsoons have not materialised. I've no doubt it exists, though what is causing it is arguable, as are any measures against it. Preparation though is a neccessity, as engagement with the rest of the world on a better basis than the old ones, where the west dictates the terms regardless of the rest. Which is where inequality becomes a global issue.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 2:42 pm

ohsocynical wrote:We're disgusted at how people can still vote Tory when they are doing such damage.

I'm wondering if we're any different if we carry on supporting the party despite what the rebels are doing to it.

Genuine question. How do we support and yet show our displeasure?

Write to them personally, and politely, and ask them to desist from damaging the party and its potential to halt this destructive Tory regime?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 3:01 pm

You can tell Putin has been mentioned on the sparrow blog, BTL is freakin nuts.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 3:18 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:TE is entitled to his opinion but that sort of post just repeats what he has said a thousand times before and made no other point than one we know already.
While I do get that are you saying that if TE can't say anything different, even if that view is one fervently held, then TE shouldn't say anything?

howsillyofme1 wrote:You then chose to pick out Temulkar's post and I was just pointing out that his seemed to have more depth to it, than TE's previously.
I picked out Tem's post because I found it mocking, impolite and disrespectful. Quite where the depth is in ridiculing somebody escapes me.
howsillyofme1 wrote:There are plenty of posters on here who oppose Corbyn - Tubby, Willow, Anatoly to an extent and others but they make points that are provoking and interesting. TE just says Corbyn has to go and that's it - no solution, no answer to the question who could replace him etc.
I think I've already answered this. Say something different or shut up ..... that isn't the forum I joined. Ah well ....

Who said everyone has to have the same view - I never have? It is just I am a little bored of reading the same thing but if that is what he wants to write then fine - I pointed out that others make a better contruibution to the argument that he is trying to make

I found your response to Temulkar's disproportionate and you also seem to have failed to play by your own rules that you have set out

I find your response above a bit odd to be honest and am not sure what to make of it

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 3:25 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ction-aide" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Conservatives under scrutiny over election aide Mark Clarke
Party facing questions over its investigation of former aide at centre of allegations of attempted blackmail, bullying and sexual harassment

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 3:29 pm

HindleA wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ction-aide

Conservatives under scrutiny over election aide Mark Clarke
Party facing questions over its investigation of former aide at centre of allegations of attempted blackmail, bullying and sexual harassment

Noone known by the public tralala move along, nothing to see.

Has any number ten spokesperson been asked to comment on this yet?

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 3:57 pm

I have some sympathy with those who are leery of Left Unity, mainly because my experience of people who joined them is that they haven't done much but moan - and they really do, on everything - uc and I believe they are shrinking atm, they could have offered to join labour in the spring, and helped get them in. Ken Laoch would have been good to have then, tbh he should have known better. On the whole, while it is ugly and worrying to watch, and gives the media more fuel it is better to fight from the inside.

I said sympathy, not agreement.....

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 24 Nov, 2015 4:26 pm

So here we are, hours after Turkey shoots down a Russian plane (and no, I have no idea who is "right" if this could ever be any shade of right), and OGRPPFGTCC has nothing to say, while Philip "Mr.Burns" Hammond has little to say other than what great allies the Turks are whilst sparing a few moments to give Dennis Skinner a ticking-off.

It seems to me that Hammond is just there to cover for Fat Dave while he tries to work out what he thinks his friend Barack will think - and for now, all those charming Wahhabist-supporting places like Turkey, Saudi, and Qatar are still are still our best pals until the US tells NATO what it is supposed to do next....

WW3 - coming to your TV screens sooner than you think......