Friday 8th April 2016

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 12:31 pm

ChrisCross ‏@ChrisCr711 2h2 hours ago

Serious Fraud Office opens CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION into TATA Steel
500 clients, including BAE & Rolls-Royce effected

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 74076.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 12:35 pm

Blimey, the ToryTrolls are out in force today.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 12:37 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Juliet Samuel ‏@CitySamuel 4m4 minutes ago
Cameron's most dishonest act in all this: not declaring all his assets on MP register. This is what the Icelandic PM resigned over.

Hear, hear!

Good-afternoon, everyone

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 12:40 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Blimey, the ToryTrolls are out in force today.

Take consolation in the fact there's likely only a couple dozen, tops, throughout the country

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 12:42 pm

citizenJA wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Blimey, the ToryTrolls are out in force today.
Take consolation in the fact there's likely only a couple dozen, tops, throughout the country

Indeed. As opposed to over 50,000 Tweets with the #resigncameron hashtag!

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 12:46 pm

3 years ago today was a happy day. If only Cameron could make it a happy day today. Resigning is enough for now!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 12:50 pm

For @PF

Update: Some have argued that MPs are only required to declare holdings above £70,000, but this isn’t the full story.

http://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/04/d ... nd-either/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 12:55 pm

ohsocynical wrote:For @PF

Update: Some have argued that MPs are only required to declare holdings above £70,000, but this isn’t the full story.

http://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/04/d ... nd-either/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thank you. Very interesting. Isn't it funny how things seem to be in the ether? I hadn't seen anything about this angle until it occurred to me to wonder.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 1:05 pm

I'm wondering how far the Conservative "No" camp will be prepared to capitalise on the situation in which David Cameron has placed himself. It must be very tempting (although they would, of course, be putting themselves in the financial dealings firing line - which probably isn't an alluring prospect).

Edited

"b" for "p"

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 1:05 pm

Joel Gulhane - چويل
‏@jgulhane

Dress code for #ResignCameron protest Hawaiin Shirts, tropical colours, sunglasses, and of course Panama hats. If you've got a blow up beachball then bring that along.

Why should Tories get to have all the offshore fun?

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 1:09 pm

Just back from hospital, *tips hat to the Royal Derby team*. Fracture and ankle stable, plaster for five more weeks and can put some weight on it now.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 1:09 pm

Kemal Ahmed (BBC) seems (at least for the time being) to have given up on his "we all do it" line.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 1:16 pm

http://www.rashbre2.blogspot.co.ke/2016 ... s.html?m=1

There are a couple of points that don't stack up with the chorus of secondary politicians defending their leader right now in the saga about who held what.
Firstly, the reported £30,000 holding cashed in? A minimum holding stipulated with the fund is USD100,000. This would imply that the total holding by a single entity would need to be at least USD100,000. Either this condition was waived, or there was a joint holding, which would then be closer to $100,000 - split 2 ways? Could it be that Sam and Dave each cashed in £30k? Not what Dave implied. Someone should really ask...
Then the statements about this being a regular trust mechanism and not one particularly designed to avoid UK tax. That's quietly contradicted in the original prospectus, which made s specific point of saying it is designed to avoid UK taxation.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 1:31 pm

PorFavor wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:For @PF

Update: Some have argued that MPs are only required to declare holdings above £70,000, but this isn’t the full story.

http://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/04/d ... nd-either/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thank you. Very interesting. Isn't it funny how things seem to be in the ether? I hadn't seen anything about this angle until it occurred to me to wonder.

"Requirements for registration
52. Under this category Members must register:

a) Shareholdings or share options which they hold, either by themselves or with or on behalf of their spouse, partner or dependent children.
This includes any shares which are managed by a trust (other than a blind trust[75] or similar delegated management arrangement)
and any holdings in sector-specific vehicles...

[75] For a trust to be regarded as a blind trust the Member must not know details of how their assets are invested or give
trustees instructions about specific investments. They may however give general directions about the nature of investments
when the trust is established, may receive reports on its overall performance and may realise some or all of its assets.
In certain circumstances there may be a requirement to declare a blind trust."

- from, Proposed Revisions to the Guide to the Rules relating to the conduct of Members - Standards and Privileges Committee
Registration of Members' Financial Interests
Requirements of the House

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 10.htm#n75" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... /63610.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(my emphasis)

The ether may contain all kinds of assets
That may not have to be included in the register

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 1:32 pm

http://www.williamhillplc.com/media/new ... re-corbyn/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Taxing Time For Cameron - Now Favourite To Go Before Corbyn

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 1:33 pm

frightful_oik wrote:Just back from hospital, *tips hat to the Royal Derby team*. Fracture and ankle stable, plaster for five more weeks and can put some weight on it now.

Outstanding!
May your good health and healing continue, my friend.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 1:34 pm

The wiggly tail of Blairmore Holdings.

http://www.rashbre2.blogspot.co.uk/2016 ... s.html?m=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 1:39 pm

The French journalist Geoffrey Bonnefoy has posted more on what the French foreign minister,
Jean-Marc Ayrault, has been saying about David Cameron this morning.

Here’s a rough translation.

Cameron’s implicated in the Panama Papers. Should he resign?

Ayrault: That’s a matter for him.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... c9549f3b75" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Better translation:
"Cameron singled out in the 'Panama Papers' Should he resignation?
Ayrault: It is for him to explain "

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 1:43 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Juliet Samuel ‏@CitySamuel 4m4 minutes ago
Cameron's most dishonest act in all this: not declaring all his assets on MP register. This is what the Icelandic PM resigned over.

Exactly.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 1:48 pm

A slight aside, but about the Blairmore Holdings legal advisors.

http://www.rollonfriday.com/Blogs/ReadB ... fault.aspx

Presumably lawyers at Simmons & Simmons reacted with either disgust, annoyance, apathy, surprise or nihilistic enjoyment, depending on their state of mind and soul, when they saw that their firm had worked with Mossack Fonseca and that the association has been scooped up from the dusty vaults of long-forgotten, archived matters and dumped onto millions of laps around the globe. Simmons, of course, will no doubt have complied with all the proper procedures in the Blairmore case. Unlike Mossack Fonseca, which has got up to all sorts, including recruiting a British pensioner to pretend to be the owner of a fortune in order to hide the identity of the true beneficiary. Nonetheless, it's embarrassing for Simmons (and HFW, also named) to be labelled as a hollowed-out enabler of the amoral rich, rubbing along with a firm which has, amongst other alleged crimes, tarnished a great name for a Star Wars character.

I just noticed,the address for Simmons & Simmons:
"One Ropemaker Street"

Did someone mention lampposts, yesterday?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 1:48 pm

Uk's trade deficit for February bigger than "expected". (BBC)

Who is it who has these "expectations"? They always seem to be doomed to disappointment.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 1:51 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
GMB Politics ‏@GMBPolitics 34m34 minutes ago
Nick Boles struggling a bit in the interview on @BBCBreakfast - drew the short straw this morning, eh?
Trying to make it all about Cameron protecting his deeply loved father ..... pathetic. It's about Cameron not answering questions about his own involvement - until absolutely forced to.

Not answering questions might actually be the undoing of Dodgy Dave. Hope so - that would be some kind of justice.

Sappy 'protect my dad' stuff from Dave - disingenuous caterwauling - the man is more transparent than he knows.

Maeght · Post by **Maeght** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 1:52 pm

Can anybody copy the cartoon in The Independent Voices - the one about Jersey please. Really like it and it is very appropriate . Just can't seem to do it.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 1:52 pm

PorFavor wrote:Uk's trade deficit for February bigger than "expected". (BBC)

Who is it who has these "expectations"? They always seem to be doomed to disappointment.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/eco ... ufacturing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
UK economy is using low interest rates as life support. It can't end well

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 1:52 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Nick Robinson ‏@bbcnickrobinson 5m5 minutes ago
What sticks in mind about PM's interview on tax? Impressions not the detail. Red face, £300k & a very complex explanation

Nick Robinson thumbs down, Dave, 'bye.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 1:57 pm

I'm getting a big delay on comments posted btl on Sparrow's blog today, the mods are struggling to cope, I think. Anyway, I asked Andrew if Cameron needed to declare his investment in the Register of Members interests. He said he thought not, that he thought political scrapbook had got it wrong. His opinion is probably more informed than mine, but it's still just an opinion. On the other hand, Labour are sticking to the 'morally, if not technically, wrong' line which suggests they don't think there's anything substantial they can really nail him on. McDonnell's approach of challenging Cameron to publish his tax returns is a good one as it's odds on he won't and that will re-enforce the sense he has something to hide which he's already created himself with his obfuscation and evasiveness. On balance, however, I suspect we're stuck with him a bit longer ( though probably not a lot longer).

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 1:58 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I believe Cameron will go, and soon.

He's surely no longer the leader that polls ahead of his party and he's unfit to lead the Remain cause. Assuming that the "establishment" doesn't want Brexit, they need to get shot of Dave quick. Quite who could step into the role isn't clear to me.

One thing that amuses me is that should Dave resign now, Boris is in trouble. There's no way a Brexit campaigner could become PM.
I don't think he'll go until he absolutely has to. He's shameless. That seems to be one of his main characteristics and it seems to be a necessary feature for a Tory PM and / or minister. And, as you rightly say, they've not really got anyone looking credible as a successor. I'm sure there are plenty of them who think they are just whizz bang perfect for the job though. Loads of them who think they'd 'be good at it'.
Don't underestimate the Tories' capacity to remove him if he's a liability RR2

Well we'll see....

The leader can no longer stand upright in any way, legitimacy fails, the floor gives way from under the feet and it's over

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 1:59 pm

citizenJA wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Nick Robinson ‏@bbcnickrobinson 5m5 minutes ago
What sticks in mind about PM's interview on tax? Impressions not the detail. Red face, £300k & a very complex explanation
Nick Robinson thumbs down, Dave, 'bye.

No doubt the BBC Politburo (supreme leader - James Harding Esq) will be along to correct this shameful episode of deviationism before too long

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 2:02 pm

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/04/08/ca ... r-corbyns/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cameron's ratings now lower than Corbyn's

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 2:02 pm

Ok. I'm struggling to keep up now. It seems Labour does think Cameron may have broken some rules after all, or at least are pushing for independent confirmation he hasn't:

The Labour MP John Mann is asking the parliamentary commissioner for standards to investigate allegations that David Cameron broke the MPs’ code of conduct by not declaring the profit he made from the sale of his investment in his late father’s offshore fund, the Daily Mirror reports.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 2:03 pm

Maeght wrote:Can anybody copy the cartoon in The Independent Voices - the one about Jersey please. Really like it and it is very appropriate . Just can't seem to do it.

Just so's you don't feel ignored -

No, sorry - I'm not equal to the task. But somebody who is will probably be along in due course.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 2:08 pm

Neil and Christine Hamilton Are Staging A Political Comeback

http://www.buzzfeed.com/emilyashton/ret ... .gj3MkjqvR

Sorry but I couldn't read it all...

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 2:09 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Maeght wrote:Can anybody copy the cartoon in The Independent Voices - the one about Jersey please. Really like it and it is very appropriate . Just can't seem to do it.

Just so's you don't feel ignored -

No, sorry - I'm not equal to the task. But somebody who is will probably be along in due course.

Sorry I can't either. I still can't download files or photos. I haven't found a fix yet.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 2:13 pm

https://www.rt.com/uk/338923-samantha-c ... l-advisor/

Facing calls to resign, the prime minister isn’t the only Cameron under scrutiny. It has emerged that his wife Samantha Cameron’s ‘special adviser’ Rosie Lyburn is paid £53,000 a year from the austerity-hit public purse for ‘fashion tips.’

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 2:15 pm

Willow904 wrote:Ok. I'm struggling to keep up now. It seems Labour does think Cameron may have broken some rules after all, or at least are pushing for independent confirmation he hasn't:

The Labour MP John Mann is asking the parliamentary commissioner for standards to investigate allegations that David Cameron broke the MPs’ code of conduct by not declaring the profit he made from the sale of his investment in his late father’s offshore fund, the Daily Mirror reports.

"Any relevant financial interest or material benefit which does not clearly fall into one of the other categories,
including any shareholding which falls below the relevant threshold, or any other financial asset, including
an asset held in trust, if the Member nevertheless considers that it meets the test of relevance; in other
words, that it might reasonably be thought by others to influence his or her actions or words as a
Member..."

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 10.htm#n77" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(my emphasis)

Cameron admitted keeping information out of the register
the MPs' Code relies upon honourable, straightforward disclosure
Cameron has placed himself outside by his omissions

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 2:18 pm

tinybgoat wrote:https://www.rt.com/uk/338923-samantha-c ... l-advisor/

Facing calls to resign, the prime minister isn’t the only Cameron under scrutiny. It has emerged that his wife Samantha Cameron’s ‘special adviser’ Rosie Lyburn is paid £53,000 a year from the austerity-hit public purse for ‘fashion tips.’

Lyburn ought to be tried for crimes against fashion - her style looks a fright

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 2:19 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Maeght wrote:Can anybody copy the cartoon in The Independent Voices - the one about Jersey please. Really like it and it is very appropriate . Just can't seem to do it.
Just so's you don't feel ignored -

No, sorry - I'm not equal to the task. But somebody who is will probably be along in due course.
Sorry I can't either. I still can't download files or photos. I haven't found a fix yet.

Where's the link to the image, please?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 2:21 pm

tinybgoat wrote:https://www.rt.com/uk/338923-samantha-c ... l-advisor/

Facing calls to resign, the prime minister isn’t the only Cameron under scrutiny. It has emerged that his wife Samantha Cameron’s ‘special adviser’ Rosie Lyburn is paid £53,000 a year from the austerity-hit public purse for ‘fashion tips.’

I think we also pay for their personal hairdressers...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 2:22 pm

HindleA wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Uk's trade deficit for February bigger than "expected". (BBC)

Who is it who has these "expectations"? They always seem to be doomed to disappointment.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/eco ... ufacturing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
UK economy is using low interest rates as life support. It can't end well

Correct - things aren't going well on all fronts - it's perfect storm weather and we've the wrong pilot

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 2:25 pm

All the defences\explanations put forward (drip by drip) may well be sufficient for a private individual. But David Cameron is (unbelievable, I know) the Prime Minister. It's not good enough and he must be aware of that.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 2:36 pm

Should David Cameron resign? Difficult one, given the timing. But I'll say this - if he does resign, he might find that it's something that he's "good at". He could give it a shot, at least . . .

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 2:38 pm

OMG! I just popped over to the Mirror to check out the John Mann story and they're not holding back! Cameron may well hang on but he really is damaged goods now. The clock is most definitely ticking...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/da ... be-7715449" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

David Cameron faces sleaze probe over offshore trust scandal

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 2:41 pm

Can someone please tell Ken Livingstone to shut up?(Politics Live, Guardian)

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 2:41 pm

PorFavor wrote:Should David Cameron resign? Difficult one, given the timing. But I'll say this - if he does resign, he might find that it's something that he's "good at". He could give it a shot, at least . . .

Kicking and screaming, that's the way DC will go, kicking and screaming.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 2:47 pm

PorFavor wrote:All the defences\explanations put forward (drip by drip) may well be sufficient for a private individual. But David Cameron is (unbelievable, I know) the Prime Minister. It's not good enough and he must be aware of that.

If, God forbid you could read his mind, all you'd find is a very angry person hating the lower classes even more for daring to question he and his family.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 2:51 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Willow904 wrote:Ok. I'm struggling to keep up now. It seems Labour does think Cameron may have broken some rules after all, or at least are pushing for independent confirmation he hasn't:

The Labour MP John Mann is asking the parliamentary commissioner for standards to investigate allegations that David Cameron broke the MPs’ code of conduct by not declaring the profit he made from the sale of his investment in his late father’s offshore fund, the Daily Mirror reports.
I doubt Mann's view is the Party line - IIRC he has a history of being a bit freelance doesn't he?

I know he's a serial resignation demander.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 2:55 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Willow904 wrote:Ok. I'm struggling to keep up now. It seems Labour does think Cameron may have broken some rules after all, or at least are pushing for independent confirmation he hasn't:

The Labour MP John Mann is asking the parliamentary commissioner for standards to investigate allegations that David Cameron broke the MPs’ code of conduct by not declaring the profit he made from the sale of his investment in his late father’s offshore fund, the Daily Mirror reports.
I doubt Mann's view is the Party line - IIRC he has a history of being a bit freelance doesn't he?

Good point. I also think Mann's request for an investigation being rejected, as it probably will, might help Cameron anyway as at the moment it's him and his Tory colleagues saying he's done nothing wrong. An "independent" person agreeing is just what he needs.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 3:10 pm

Anyway - where's the sex?

(Although I suppose we should be thankful for small mercies.)

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 3:18 pm

Afternoon. Sex ? What have I missed ?

It was great to see the press front pages in the papershop this morning.
Massed bad headlines for Cameron.

& phew, relief...my GP is ''delighted'' at my progress, seems satisfied now that I don't need a neurological opinion as the drug regime is cutting down the attacks and frequency of the attacks.
Don't have to go back for a month, which is good.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 3:22 pm

YouGov poll

Cameron, on his family's tax affairs has :
been open & honest 18%
not been open & honest 56%