Wednesday 22nd June 2016

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 12:26 pm

PorFavor wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Vote Remain tomorrow please

https://spinninghugo.wordpress.com/2016 ... ean-union/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Hello. Long time no see.

Echoed. Nice to be on the same side.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 12:31 pm

danesclose wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:The latest YouGov survey, taken after last night's televised debate, gives remain a one point lead.

Hope it proves to be a bit more conclusive than that, still a remain is a remain however small.

There should also be an understanding that the result is final for at least a generation.

I am to be honest, after the Scottish vote, a dismal GE result and EU vote referendumded out.
The problem is that if the result is narrow (much less than 60:40 IMO) the Leave campaign will be crying foul - as reported here yesterday, already 50% of people intending to vote Leave think that the referendum is rigged against them. Coupled with anything unpopular coming from the EU, and the refrain from Farage et al will be "If the British people had known about this at the time, they would have voted Leave. We need another vote now".

Exactly.

In his arrogance and stupidity, OGRPPFGTCC has failed to placate his backbenchers, failed to placate UKIP, and only won the GE by a whisker ably assisted by spending tons of cash and possibly/allegedly cheating on election spending.

As with IndyRef, he's now in panic mode. He has been telling us all that terrible things will happen if we vote Leave, threatening all manner of woes, and if he truly thinks a Brexit would be so dangerous now it's on the cards, how can anyone trust him again?
And all this because he wanted to look good and please everyone. What a prat he is.

The likes of Farage, Britain First, and the BNP are making capital out of the untimely killing of a young woman serving her community; ambitious ideologues are jockeying for position in the Tory party whatever the vote turns out to be; and whether we stay or leave the EU, a significant proportion of people will not be happy with the result.

It's solstice. Midsummer. Usually I am celebrating and enjoying the height of our beautiful season here in the Wye Valley.
But I'm really depressed by what's gong on. It's chaos, and Cameron is to blame.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 12:32 pm

mbc1955 wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:The latest YouGov survey, taken after last night's televised debate, gives remain a one point lead.

Hope it proves to be a bit more conclusive than that, still a remain is a remain however small.

There should also be an understanding that the result is final for at least a generation.

I am to be honest, after the Scottish vote, a dismal GE result and EU vote referendumded out.
I wish. Given that 27% of the Leave voters are so convinced that the result will be fixed against them by the security services that they are taking pens with them so their vote can't be changed, a Remain result won't be final for five seconds.

With any luck they will all write 'don't try and erase this you MI5, Establishment Elite Cultural Marxist Traitors'' on their ballots and they will be classed as spoilt ballots.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 12:38 pm

: CliOnjsUkAAcS33.jpg (126.84 KiB) Viewed 6772 times

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 12:44 pm

Hello folks,

Firstly a mea culpa. I promised myself I'd never post here. I occasionally drop by and read what you're all saying but I didn't want to bring my ranty, rude self into your haven so have limited myself to BTL at the graun. But that place is so, so toxic now - and my heart's really not in it any more after the assassination of Jo Cox last week - I'm breaking my rule in the vain hope that I may get some sensible answers about Brexit to questions that certainly haven't been answered, and nobody appears to have even bothered asking, which just infuriates me. I see from the past few weeks posts that there are some here that are voting Brexit, so maybe they can help out (however, these questions may be irrelevant to them as they largely centre around immigration rather than 'sovereignty' and I don't know the reasons why you are voting Brexit):

1. If the economy does survive Brexit and does indeed start growing more as Johnson, Gove etc are saying it will, where is the workforce to fill the new jobs that a growing economy creates going to come from? Most of those jobs should be (high) skilled if the economy is successful, not low skilled. So where are all those skilled people going to come from. We're already at 300,000+ new migrants per year to support the economy as it is now. A growing/booming economy means that we'll actually need even more people, particularly if we can employ and miraculously train all 'native' unemployed Brits in the skills needed to achieve full employment.

So who and where will the additional migrants be into the country to fill all those vacancies in a booming economy, if not half from Europe?

2. How does or can 1. tally with the desired-by-many-Brexiters reduction in migration? I can't seem to square the circle I'm seeing in this argument, so help me out.

3. How is a points-based immigration system going to work?
- we have a few million EU nationals already working within our borders so it can't just begin without having first processed them all (and who will do that, and how much will it cost)? N.B. Has anyone wanting this ever visited Croydon and experienced what it's like to get an e.g. residency permit? That is already struggling at the seams, a few million extra people within a shortish time frame will crash the whole system...
- who will be determining what skills are required and what checks and balances - even if these are possible - will be in place to ensure that those doing it aren't picking skills in a racist/islamophobic/anti-something-or-other manner?
- How will the demands of big, multi-nationals who already bribe our politicians to get what they want not dominate such a scheme? How will that dominance remotely stem the flow of 'low-skilled' workers into the country if they are all demanding that it happens 'because they need it'?
- how are nationals from countries that simply don't have the infrastructure in place to educate and train their residents in the needed skills ever going to compete with the first world nations that do? Isn't this points based system just going to be a means of excluding black and brown people from the underdeveloped nations of the Asian, Indian and African (sub-)continents in favour of the metaphorical blue-eyed, blonde-haired Yanks and Aussies?
- how much does our border force need to grow to control and police such a system and how much more is that going to cost per annum?

4. Why has not one single person in the media asked any of this of the Leave campaign? This information is critical to the debate. And not one of these questions has been asked. Why not?

There's a tonne more I'd like answered but that'll do now.

PS. Some responses I do not care to hear: how we already do this for non-EU nationals (we don't; that's achieved at the point of entry, not post-entry into the country - millions of EU nationals are already here and we can't introduce a points based system until every single one them has been processed first), how it is racist towards non-EU nationals already (yes, it is, but that's because it's pandering to the same subset of [edited to add the next critical word] xenophobic people who now want Brexit, not despite them - if you want a non-racist system for non-EU nationals then remove the hurdles that decades of racism has put in their way instead of foisting them on everyone else too).

Thanks in advance for your patience if you made it this far.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 12:46 pm

Welcome Jonny, the more the merrier. Ruder the better is fine by me.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 12:51 pm

yahyah wrote:Morning.

Did anyone watch the BBC debate last night ?
It seemed like X Factor meets politics. Lots of roaring from the crowd, seemed very US style unfortunately.

Didn't watch much as a result of the presentation style. But Sadiq, Frances were very good.
As was Ruth Davidson. A real hard hitter, what a shame she's a Tory.

Bozo, well he was his usual self. The audience seemed very partial to, and cheered loudly for, a charlatan with a daft hairdo waffling about 'Project Fear'.

If I'm not around much in the next few days it won't be because I've taken umbrage at anyone, but am in the prodrome stage of a basilar migraine attack. I'm upping the prophylaxis medication, am hoping to abort the worst of it but may not be able to.
It's the stress of the referendum I'm sure, as I haven't had a bad attack recently since on some new blood pressure medication.
On the positive side, the strange visual effects are like an acid trip if you can relax and go with them.
Trippin' man ...

Hope you soon feel well yahyah

[youtube]yb_R9ihJ-n4[/youtube]

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 1:00 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:Welcome Jonny, the more the merrier. Ruder the better is fine by me.

Thanks Toby.

Forgot to say in my post that the John Barnes article today is quite possibly the only decent thing I've read that's been published in the Guardian during this whole referendum.

I also forgot to say that, having dressed themselves in Farage's clothes, Gove and Johnson can rot in hell with their, "it wasn't me, guv, that poster.... didn't like it, you know... Did we mention the Turks?" weasel words. I hope to Christ those utter swine lose not only their jobs but any future public platform after Friday.

Which leads me onto my final question for Brexiters?

5. If the immigration thing isn't based on racism, why is there any need to mention Turks when talking about the number of immigrants. If it weren't racist, there'd only be the need to say how many people you're worried about coming, not where they are from. So why keep on banging on about Turks. Or Romanians before them. Or Poles before them. You never hear anyone on the Leave side say, "I don't want those hundreds of thousands of French/German/Dutch/etc folk here" do you?

edit: typo

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 1:00 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote: 4. Why has not one single person in the media asked any of this of the Leave campaign? This information is critical to the debate. And not one of these questions has been asked. Why not?

That's what we'd all like to know.

Our media has sunk very low.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 1:03 pm

Thanks Toby. The higher dose of meds seems to be keeping it at bay.

We've got that band in our sixties collection, I love that stuff, and the garage sound of that time.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 1:03 pm

@Jonny

Although we like to think we're not an echo chamber, the EUref has made us into one, on this subject at least.

The Eurosceptics among us have withdrawn from the fray, hopefully to make a welcome return later.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 1:06 pm

@yahyah, I had the 'Nuggets' compilation back in my vinyl loving days, full of that 60's garage sound stuff.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 1:08 pm

Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, is speaking in London.

He says that he thinks Ukip and its supporters have changed politics, not just in a way that will be reflected in the result tomorrow, but in a way that will affect the country more permanently.

That's what I'm afraid of.
Have I mentioned how much I hate Farage?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 1:09 pm

@JonnyT1234

Hello, there.

Fashionably late . . .

(I should let you know - I don't do emoticons but I hope you'll get used to me)

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 1:10 pm

I am puzzled as to why RR felt she couldn't argue her husband's position. Or hers as she seemed to be undecided, pondering not voting, and like most of us fed up with Cameron getting us in this whole shebang.

But it must be nerve racking being almost in bed with the far right on wanting a Brexit vote, can imagine it would give one a few dark nights of the soul, or not want to feel one has to justify it.

There are people from the left, right and centre on both sides.
But, and am happy for someone to prove me wrong, the extremist far right don't seem split, they are supporting Brexit are't they ?

Am expecting a link posted for BNP for the EU now !

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 1:13 pm

gilsey wrote:
Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, is speaking in London.

He says that he thinks Ukip and its supporters have changed politics, not just in a way that will be reflected in the result tomorrow, but in a way that will affect the country more permanently.
That's what I'm afraid of.
Have I mentioned how much I hate Farage?

Go on Gilsey, fill your boots.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 1:13 pm

gilsey wrote:@Jonny

Although we like to think we're not an echo chamber, the EUref has made us into one, on this subject at least.

The Eurosceptics among us have withdrawn from the fray, hopefully to make a welcome return later.

Well that's a shame, I thought I'd seen rebeccariots recently.

Fwiw, I did try to get Sparrow to ask some of this a week or so ago but, though he replied to my post, he never did. And the prospect of getting any rational response to them BTL at the graun is somewhere between Gove and Farage saying something truthful. Just never going to happen.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 1:17 pm

yahyah wrote: Am expecting a link posted for BNP for the EU now !

Nah, the days when the likes of Oswald Mosley waxed lyrical about the "European project" are long gone.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 1:22 pm

Marina Hyde
✔
@MarinaHyde

"We'll act as the canary in the mineshaft" says Farage of Ukip post-Brexit, still failing to get what this metaphor means for the canary
11:32 AM - 22 Jun 2016

264 264 Retweets
204 (Politics Live, Guardian)

Indeed. Nevertheless, I hope his take on the expression proves right in Ukip's case.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 1:30 pm

George Eaton - "For future Conservative leadership candidates, the hint of a second referendum will be irresistible" http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk ... n-question" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 1:34 pm

@JonnyT1234

Welcome to ftn. I ended up here when the cybernats took over btl at the G in the run up to the Scottish referendum and somehow got hooked, though I still comment at the G. Intriguingly the current crop of Brexiters bear a remarkable resemblance in the style of their comments to cybernats. There's an anti-establishment type, I think, who has no interest in debate.

As to your questions, you make some good points. If you disregard the very high possibility a Tory Brexit government under Johnson and Gove would seek a Norway type arrangement, with membership of the single market and the continued free movement of people, and consider how the controlled migration option may look, I suspect Japan may provide some clues. Another advanced economy, island nation, Japan has a growing elderly population and a low immigration culture. They have been experiencing persistent weak/zero growth for some years now. Standard of living has held up well overall but there are noticeable disparities, with the poorest doing least well as always. So, Tory politicians aside, although no Nirvana, Brexit needn't be a catastrophe in the long run, or at least not particularly worse than they are now. Unfortunately, however, there appears to be no opportunity to put Tory politicians aside in the near future and in the short term economic uncertainties are best avoided, always impacting more heavily on the least well off, as they do.

At the end of the day we face the same issues of a growing elderly population and shrinking manufacturing base whether we are "in" or "out". This is an issue many other advanced economies face and none have yet really solved. Which is why the EU referendum is such a waste of time and really quite toxic as its getting in the way of tackling far more fundamental problems.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 1:57 pm

Anyway, I tried to post a picture this morning on my tablet, but it was too big, so I switched on the desk top pc where I could edit it, only for our computer to go absolutely bonkers. This was about 9.30am. In between having lunch etc, I've been fiddling with the damn thing pretty much all day. "Drive errors", Norton 360 gone awol - all sorts, basically.

I'm now 360ed up again and just about working so, fwiw, here it is:

: Warsaw.jpg (68.57 KiB) Viewed 6570 times

I just thought it was really rather cool. How can anyone not like the Polish?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 1:58 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:Hello folks,

Firstly a mea culpa. I promised myself I'd never post here. I occasionally drop by and read what you're all saying but I didn't want to bring my ranty, rude self into your haven so have limited myself to BTL at the graun. But that place is so, so toxic now - and my heart's really not in it any more after the assassination of Jo Cox last week - I'm breaking my rule in the vain hope that I may get some sensible answers about Brexit to questions that certainly haven't been answered, and nobody appears to have even bothered asking, which just infuriates me. I see from the past few weeks posts that there are some here that are voting Brexit, so maybe they can help out (however, these questions may be irrelevant to them as they largely centre around immigration rather than 'sovereignty' and I don't know the reasons why you are voting Brexit):

1. If the economy does survive Brexit and does indeed start growing more as Johnson, Gove etc are saying it will, where is the workforce to fill the new jobs that a growing economy creates going to come from? Most of those jobs should be (high) skilled if the economy is successful, not low skilled. So where are all those skilled people going to come from. We're already at 300,000+ new migrants per year to support the economy as it is now. A growing/booming economy means that we'll actually need even more people, particularly if we can employ and miraculously train all 'native' unemployed Brits in the skills needed to achieve full employment.

So who and where will the additional migrants be into the country to fill all those vacancies in a booming economy, if not half from Europe?

2. How does or can 1. tally with the desired-by-many-Brexiters reduction in migration? I can't seem to square the circle I'm seeing in this argument, so help me out.

3. How is a points-based immigration system going to work?
- we have a few million EU nationals already working within our borders so it can't just begin without having first processed them all (and who will do that, and how much will it cost)? N.B. Has anyone wanting this ever visited Croydon and experienced what it's like to get an e.g. residency permit? That is already struggling at the seams, a few million extra people within a shortish time frame will crash the whole system...
- who will be determining what skills are required and what checks and balances - even if these are possible - will be in place to ensure that those doing it aren't picking skills in a racist/islamophobic/anti-something-or-other manner?
- How will the demands of big, multi-nationals who already bribe our politicians to get what they want not dominate such a scheme? How will that dominance remotely stem the flow of 'low-skilled' workers into the country if they are all demanding that it happens 'because they need it'?
- how are nationals from countries that simply don't have the infrastructure in place to educate and train their residents in the needed skills ever going to compete with the first world nations that do? Isn't this points based system just going to be a means of excluding black and brown people from the underdeveloped nations of the Asian, Indian and African (sub-)continents in favour of the metaphorical blue-eyed, blonde-haired Yanks and Aussies?
- how much does our border force need to grow to control and police such a system and how much more is that going to cost per annum?

4. Why has not one single person in the media asked any of this of the Leave campaign? This information is critical to the debate. And not one of these questions has been asked. Why not?

There's a tonne more I'd like answered but that'll do now.

PS. Some responses I do not care to hear: how we already do this for non-EU nationals (we don't; that's achieved at the point of entry, not post-entry into the country - millions of EU nationals are already here and we can't introduce a points based system until every single one them has been processed first), how it is racist towards non-EU nationals already (yes, it is, but that's because it's pandering to the same subset of [edited to add the next critical word] xenophobic people who now want Brexit, not despite them - if you want a non-racist system for non-EU nationals then remove the hurdles that decades of racism has put in their way instead of foisting them on everyone else too).

Thanks in advance for your patience if you made it this far.

Join the club. I don't understand what they're going to do either. There's not a one size fits all fix.

Boris seems to be fixated with his Aussie immigration plan, which, by all the reports I've read isn't that satisfactory. And I believe - but don't quote me - tends to work against coloured people.

It would help if those who are voting Leave because of immigration told us exactly what group of people they were against settling here, but they won't, because they'd be showing their true prejudices.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 2:12 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:Welcome Jonny, the more the merrier. Ruder the better is fine by me.

Hear! Hear!

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 2:14 pm

@Willow904

You're right about the "toxic". It's all so unnecessary, isn't it? And as I said (yesterday?), I fear there will be fallout, socially, regardless of the result - although a "Remain" result will probably trigger a worse situation in that regard. And I think that that was the hope\intention on the part of some on the "Out" side all along. I don't think David Cameron had a thought for what he might unleash living in his privileged and entitled bubble and he's stupid not to have done so. He must think that the British people are an ungrateful lot.

Edited to add -

Or at least the trouble which I fear will be more immediate and obvious if there is a "Remain" vote. A minority (but a sizeable minority) won't take things lying down. In the event of an "Out" vote, the trouble will probably, in the main, take a more insidious form.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 2:14 pm

Without an exit poll I'm wondering what is going to be covered by the BBC once the polling stations close?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 2:15 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:
TobyLatimer wrote:Welcome Jonny, the more the merrier. Ruder the better is fine by me.
Thanks Toby.

Forgot to say in my post that the John Barnes article today is quite possibly the only decent thing I've read that's been published in the Guardian during this whole referendum.

I also forgot to say that, having dressed themselves in Farage's clothes, Gove and Johnson can rot in hell with their, "it wasn't me, guv, that poster.... didn't like it, you know... Did we mention the Turks?" weasel words. I hope to Christ those utter swine lose not only their jobs but any future public platform after Friday.

Which leads me onto my final question for Brexiters?

5. If the immigration thing isn't based on racism, why is there any need to mention Turks when talking about the number of immigrants. If it weren't racist, there'd only be the need to say how many people you're worried about coming, not where they are from. So why keep on banging on about Turks. Or Romanians before them. Or Poles before them. You never hear anyone on the Leave side say, "I don't want those hundreds of thousands of French/German/Dutch/etc folk here" do you?

edit: typo

What nationalities were in Farage's disgusting poster? That wasn't an accident.
I truly believe it's based on racism and religion and that's why we're not getting any answers. It's because they daren't express what they really believe, so how the hell can they tell us what they plan/would like to do?

[White] Eastern Europeans slips off the tongues far more easily doesn't it?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 2:18 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Without an exit poll I'm wondering what is going to be covered by the BBC once the polling stations close?

I knew that potter's wheel thing would come into its own again eventually.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 2:19 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Without an exit poll I'm wondering what is going to be covered by the BBC once the polling stations close?

Endless talk and speculation.

Maybe we could do a winners/losers in terms of who's come out of this well or otherwise on Friday.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 2:21 pm

As with the Scottish referendum there is going to be a final poll released by YouGov on Thursday night after voting ends.

(as then, not "officially" an exit poll - but everybody will refer to it as one)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 2:21 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:@yahyah, I had the 'Nuggets' compilation back in my vinyl loving days, full of that 60's garage sound stuff.

I just listened to it twice. It was great.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 2:26 pm

Another wealthy Tory, a member of the Establishment Elite, who has a holiday home abroad has come out for ~~Remain~~ oops...sorry....Brexit.

How can that be, all those hundreds of posters on Cif telling us that it is Remain is supported and funded by wealthy, elite folk who have homes abroad.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 2:27 pm

A “FED UP” MAN HAS TAKEN OUT A FULL PAGE AD IN THE METRO TO MAKE A POINT ABOUT THE EU REFERENDUM

http://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/06/a ... eferendum/

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 2:27 pm

@porfavor. [youtube]jUzGF401vLc[/youtube]

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 2:28 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Without an exit poll I'm wondering what is going to be covered by the BBC once the polling stations close?

Will Dimbelby be waffling on ?

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 2:30 pm

Spookily, that Nuggets compilation had tracks by The Remains, and The Leaves ...

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 2:30 pm

yahyah wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Without an exit poll I'm wondering what is going to be covered by the BBC once the polling stations close?
Will Dimbelby be waffling on ?

Is Francis a Catholic?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 2:32 pm

yahyah wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Without an exit poll I'm wondering what is going to be covered by the BBC once the polling stations close?
Will Dimbelby be waffling on ?

Need you ask?

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 2:34 pm

[youtube]I8bG6o0VKDc[/youtube]

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 2:36 pm

[youtube]wF_OO3cPIuk[/youtube]

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 2:38 pm

Well, YouGov have just polled me about it. They will have the responses from the 'I've already voted by post' and the voting choices to go by.

Presume it will be released tonight ? Not sure they should be allowed to release polls on voting day.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 2:41 pm

yahyah wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Without an exit poll I'm wondering what is going to be covered by the BBC once the polling stations close?
Will Dimbelby be waffling on ?

I have to be out fairly early Friday morning, so shan't be staying up. And truthfully I'm glad of the excuse.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 2:44 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:Spookily, that Nuggets compilation had tracks by The Remains, and The Leaves ...

Baby Please Don't Go ?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 2:48 pm

The wealthy Tory coming out for Brexit is Lord Ashcroft - forget to mention that.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 2:51 pm

The Jo Cox fund has reached £1,287,738.

Incredible.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 2:52 pm

Thought he had been pro-Brexit for ages?

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 2:54 pm

yahyah wrote:
TobyLatimer wrote:Spookily, that Nuggets compilation had tracks by The Remains, and The Leaves ...

Baby Please Don't Go ?

That was on there too, by The Amboy Dukes - Ted Nugent's old band.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 2:54 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:
yahyah wrote:
TobyLatimer wrote:Spookily, that Nuggets compilation had tracks by The Remains, and The Leaves ...

Baby Please Don't Go ?
That was on there too, by The Amboy Dukes - Ted Nugent's old band.

[youtube]WgbCtSaIrk0[/youtube]

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 2:54 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Thought he had been pro-Brexit for ages?

It was on an email from his website that I received. I'd signed up before one of the elections.
I presumed from the phrasing he was presenting it as news.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 22 Jun, 2016 3:02 pm

gilsey wrote:@Jonny

Although we like to think we're not an echo chamber, the EUref has made us into one, on this subject at least.

The Eurosceptics among us have withdrawn from the fray, hopefully to make a welcome return later.

Yes, it's a bit sad but it's their own choice. I don't think anyone here has been shouting anyone down about their opinions.

It's nowhere near as bad as some on Twitter who have their own little echo chamber despite what they might think and at least here we're not limited to 140 characters and can explore issues in far more detail.

I like to think we've been critical of both sides behaviour - especially on Cameron and his absurd migration target which has come up many times before.