Wednesday 13th July 2016

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:08 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... emy-corbyn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Is Labour going to split? Our writers’ verdict on the party’s future

Found this v interesting. For example:

Aditya Chakrabortty wrote: Here is where I think we are. This week, the headbanger Theresa May made a speech that put her to the left of most of the parliamentary Labour party. George Osborne has just ditched the austerity that the likes of Stephen Kinnock claimed was essential for credibility. The “experts” supposedly running the Labour machine proved so inept that the man they were trying to depose now looks set to win his second thumping mandate.

Ever since the crash, the elites in Britain – whether in politics or business and finance – have held power without commanding the credibility to wield it. In the last month, that has begun to shift. With first the Brexit vote and now the Corbyn showdown, the political establishment are struggling even to hold power.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:10 pm

PS. Excellent joke if I might say so M. Hindle.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:11 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Anybody watching Dave's last ever PMQs, then?

Yes, quite enjoyable so far. Even JC seems to be getting into the spirit.

minch · Post by **minch** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:20 pm

From GL
Corbyn says he has a question from Nina. Can an EU citizen who has lived in the UK for 30 years have their right to stay revoked.

Cameron says there is no chance of that happening to someone in those circumstances. He says this might only happen if Britons in other countries did not have their rights respected

I think Cameron has redefined 'no chance' to mean 'maybe'

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:21 pm

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bollocks to the spirit. Fuck off Dave, you hateful, destructive little prick.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:21 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... emy-corbyn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Is Labour going to split? Our writers’ verdict on the party’s future
Found this v interesting. For example:
Aditya Chakrabortty wrote: Here is where I think we are. This week, the headbanger Theresa May made a speech that put her to the left of most of the parliamentary Labour party. George Osborne has just ditched the austerity that the likes of Stephen Kinnock claimed was essential for credibility. The “experts” supposedly running the Labour machine proved so inept that the man they were trying to depose now looks set to win his second thumping mandate.

Ever since the crash, the elites in Britain – whether in politics or business and finance – have held power without commanding the credibility to wield it. In the last month, that has begun to shift. With first the Brexit vote and now the Corbyn showdown, the political establishment are struggling even to hold power.

I find it very horrifying. Innocent people get whacked during times like this, and with them civilised society goes too. Nothing exciting about it.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:23 pm

HindleA wrote:
gilsey wrote:
HindleA wrote:Did you see extankie's suggestion of friend/foe thing where you can choose which posts you can see
It works.

As a matter of interest how did the two e's appear in the quote at the end of my witty perfectly executed joke which absolutely nobody got,bastards,last warning or it is foemageddon and no mistake.

I did get the joke A, and humbly apologise for the 'correction'.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:25 pm

Ok thanks,not least in indulging in my silliness.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:29 pm

Via Mike Smithson, latest Ipsos Mori, fieldwork 9th to 11th July:

Tory 36% +1
Labour 35% +1
Lib Dem 11% +2
UKIP 8% -2
Green 4% no change

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:30 pm

Not a day goes by I don't miss Ed Miliband's Labour government. Extremes aren't sustainable.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:31 pm

Imagine how Labour could be doing if they weren't fighting amongst themselves and some MPs stopped telling voters the leader is useless.

minch · Post by **minch** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:32 pm

yahyah wrote:Via Mike Smithson, latest Ipsos Mori, fieldwork 9th to 11th July:

Tory 36% +1
Labour 35% +1
Lib Dem 11% +2
UKIP 8% -2
Green 4% no change

I thought that Labour were meant to be miles behind?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:34 pm

citizenJA wrote:Not a day goes by I don't miss Ed Miliband's Labour government. Extremes aren't sustainable.

You gave me a bit of turn when I read that JA.
I thought Ed M's government ?, my memory has gone kaput as I can't remember it.
Felt relieved when I realised what you meant.

Tonibel · Post by **Tonibel** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:35 pm

're shortening odds on Owen Smith, I nearly had a bet on him about six months ago when he was 16/1. Decided not to after remembering my only previous venture into political (or any) betting, on Gillian Shephard (who she?) for next Tory leader.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:36 pm

minch wrote:
yahyah wrote:Via Mike Smithson, latest Ipsos Mori, fieldwork 9th to 11th July:

Tory 36% +1
Labour 35% +1
Lib Dem 11% +2
UKIP 8% -2
Green 4% no change
I thought that Labour were meant to be miles behind?

Inconvenient for the coup plotters.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:36 pm

yahyah wrote:Imagine how Labour could be doing if they weren't fighting amongst themselves and some MPs stopped telling voters the leader is useless.

Who's telling who is useless?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:37 pm

The Labour MPs who say Corbyn needs to go, and brief the media against him.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:38 pm

yahyah wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Not a day goes by I don't miss Ed Miliband's Labour government. Extremes aren't sustainable.
You gave me a bit of turn when I read that JA.
I thought Ed M's government ?, my memory has gone kaput as I can't remember it.
Felt relieved when I realised what you meant.

It's probably not useful for me to wish for what didn't happen.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:38 pm

yahyah wrote:Via Mike Smithson, latest Ipsos Mori, fieldwork 9th to 11th July:

Tory 36% +1
Labour 35% +1
Lib Dem 11% +2
UKIP 8% -2
Green 4% no change

A bit different from ICM, then.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:42 pm

yahyah wrote:The Labour MPs who say Corbyn needs to go, and brief the media against him.

Being told needing to go and being called useless aren't the same.
The infighting needs to stop.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:43 pm

PLB:

He gets a round of applause. Tory MPs give him a standing ovation. Opposition MPs are applauding too, but they have not got to their feet (apart from some Lib Dems).

Things remain the same.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:47 pm

Peter Lilley says Cameron has a mastery of the dispatch box that he has not seen anyone else achieve. People know Cameron is driven by a sense of duty, he says.

The Conservative Ken Clarke thanks Cameron for his leadership, but also for the wit and elegance he has brought to PMQs.

JFC/WTF/YMBFKM.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:48 pm

It won't stop JA. It's nothing new, the history of the party is riddled with these dingdongs.

Nothing lasts forever. Maybe it is best to let go.

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:49 pm

NonOxCol wrote:
Peter Lilley says Cameron has a mastery of the dispatch box that he has not seen anyone else achieve. People know Cameron is driven by a sense of duty, he says.

The Conservative Ken Clarke thanks Cameron for his leadership, but also for the wit and elegance he has brought to PMQs.
JFC/WTF/YMBFKM.

minch · Post by **minch** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:52 pm

GetYou wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:
Peter Lilley says Cameron has a mastery of the dispatch box that he has not seen anyone else achieve. People know Cameron is driven by a sense of duty, he says.

The Conservative Ken Clarke thanks Cameron for his leadership, but also for the wit and elegance he has brought to PMQs.
JFC/WTF/YMBFKM.

Not enough sick

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:54 pm

PLB:

Gordon wrote three letters in those final hours – two to heroes that inspired him (Aung San Suu Kyi and Nelson Mandela) and one to David Cameron (accompanied by a bottle of something strong, as I remember).

Clearly not strong enough.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:56 pm

NonOxCol wrote:
Peter Lilley says Cameron has a mastery of the dispatch box that he has not seen anyone else achieve. People know Cameron is driven by a sense of duty, he says.

The Conservative Ken Clarke thanks Cameron for his leadership, but also for the wit and elegance he has brought to PMQs.
JFC/WTF/YMBFKM.

That'll be the wit and elegance like accusing the current Mayor of London of consorting with terrorists?

Or the mastery with which ha managed to avoid answering the damn question much of the time?

And no, I didn't see it - down at the school - far more important.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:59 pm

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:59 pm

NonOxCol wrote:

Bollocks to the spirit. Fuck off Dave, you hateful, destructive little prick.

: david-cameron-hoodie-yob-gun-hand-sign-shooting-culture.jpg (126.9 KiB) Viewed 6529 times

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 12:59 pm

Cameron says he has addressed 5,500 questions. He will leave it up to others to decide how many he has answered.

Now let me think.....

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 1:02 pm

gilsey wrote:
Cameron says he has addressed 5,500 questions. He will leave it up to others to decide how many he has answered.
Now let me think.....

(my bold)
nothing more than a sophist
he has the gall to be proud of it

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 1:02 pm

PMQ's - Cameron holds up photo of him with Larry the cat to quash rumour they never got on. 'Sadly can't take him with me'

: CnPg_PtWYAA_Wn8.jpg (103.8 KiB) Viewed 6519 times

: Blofeld-375127.jpg (66.49 KiB) Viewed 6519 times

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 1:10 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:PMQ's - Cameron holds up photo of him with Larry the cat to quash rumour they never got on. 'Sadly can't take him with me'

CnPg_PtWYAA_Wn8.jpg
Blofeld-375127.jpg

Oh god, please tell me there is a shark infested pool that May's pushing the button for right. this. moment... If she can time it right and get Blair at the same instant, I'll never shrug my shoulders with indifference at her shoes ever again.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 1:12 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:PLB:

He gets a round of applause. Tory MPs give him a standing ovation. Opposition MPs are applauding too, but they have not got to their feet (apart from some Lib Dems).
Things remain the same.

"Some" LibDems?? There's only eight of them to start with

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 1:13 pm

yahyah wrote:
minch wrote:
yahyah wrote:Via Mike Smithson, latest Ipsos Mori, fieldwork 9th to 11th July:

Tory 36% +1
Labour 35% +1
Lib Dem 11% +2
UKIP 8% -2
Green 4% no change
I thought that Labour were meant to be miles behind?
Inconvenient for the coup plotters.

Inconclusive. That was the weekend it became definite that Angela Eagle was going to launch a leadership challenge. Hard to know what voters were responding to, Corbyn or the prospect of Corbyn being replaced. Could easily be either, plus the usual 2 points either way for margin of error. And, of course, Leadsom didn't step down until Monday and no one expected it, so we haven't had a response to May, yet. I suspect she might get a big bounce.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 1:16 pm

Btw, wtf is this 25 quid 2 day registered supporters thing all about? Last year they left signing up to vote way, way too late. They should have cut it off once nominations started. This time it should have been the day Angela Eagle challenged. It seems so obvious to me.

thatchersorphan · Post by **thatchersorphan** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 1:20 pm

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... ar_twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Owen Smith in 2006

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 1:21 pm

yahyah wrote:It won't stop JA. It's nothing new, the history of the party is riddled with these dingdongs.

Nothing lasts forever. Maybe it is best to let go.

No, its definitely not - the worst was averted yesterday. McTernan's hysterical rant after the decision to allow Corbyn to stand only confirmed that.

Whatever the result of this election now, afterwards the expanded membership need to start making their presence felt.

A few well targeted deselections "pour encourager les autres" might be in order.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 1:23 pm

He was fuschia once, but my betting is that the pig made its appearance mid way through...

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 1:26 pm

Willow904 wrote:Btw, wtf is this 25 quid 2 day registered supporters thing all about? Last year they left signing up to vote way, way too late. They should have cut it off once nominations started. This time it should have been the day Angela Eagle challenged. It seems so obvious to me.

It's called rigging the voting.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 1:28 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
yahyah wrote:It won't stop JA. It's nothing new, the history of the party is riddled with these dingdongs.

Nothing lasts forever. Maybe it is best to let go.
No, its definitely not - the worst was averted yesterday. McTernan's hysterical rant after the decision to allow Corbyn to stand only confirmed that.

Whatever the result of this election now, afterwards the expanded membership need to start making their presence felt.

A few well targeted deselections "pour encourager les autres" might be in order.

I think you could be right about the deselections, even though under normal circumstances it seems a bit OTT.

I gather from Eoin C that of the CLPs (between 90 to 100 of them, I think) which have had a vote of confidence, 83% have come back with a vote of full confidence in Corbyn's leadership.

So if there are deselections, there may be more than just a few. I'm not convinced that would be OK, actually.

Also, Anatoly - do you know if it's true that Labour HQ have banned CLPs from having meetings, and if so, why?

thatchersorphan · Post by **thatchersorphan** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 1:30 pm

Éoin ‏@LabourEoin 56m56 minutes ago
Holy Fuck. Labour HQ has just banned *all* Local Labour Constituency Groups from meeting.

Just starting looking into this, so far I've found

Gorton Labour party suspended and police called in http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... g-11603957" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 1:31 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:PMQ's - Cameron holds up photo of him with Larry the cat to quash rumour they never got on. 'Sadly can't take him with me'

The attachment CnPg_PtWYAA_Wn8.jpg is no longer available
The attachment Blofeld-375127.jpg is no longer available

Can't think who he reminds me of the most:

: evil.jpg (61.52 KiB) Viewed 6418 times

or

: 2016-07-13_132909.jpg (62.21 KiB) Viewed 6418 times

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 1:31 pm

Yes, they have - a totally silly decision that I can see being widely ignored.

Apparently there is another NEC meeting next week (the regular one) so its not impossible some of this stuff could be changed.

thatchersorphan · Post by **thatchersorphan** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 1:32 pm

Sky News Newsdesk Verified account
‏@SkyNewsBreak Sky Sources: #Labour's ruling NEC has suspended all meetings of local Constituency Labour Parties for the duration of the leadership contest

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 1:47 pm

Thanks, AK and TO.

I don't know how the party heirarchy can ban individual CLPs from having meetings.

When we were campaigning here for the GE, the main Brecon&Radnor CLP had meetings all the time; but usually it's every month or so I think.
Our little local branch for Hay and Talgarth (there were 5 of us!) had one every 3 months.

If there's something big going on (and another leadership contest within a year is pretty big) I would have thought CLPs would want to meet more often. If a bunch of people want to get together, they will - ban or no ban.

This is getting sillier by the day.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 1:49 pm

thatchersorphan wrote:Sky News Newsdesk Verified account
‏@SkyNewsBreak Sky Sources: #Labour's ruling NEC has suspended all meetings of local Constituency Labour Parties for the duration of the leadership contest

Labour has suspended all local party meetings until the high-stakes leadership contest has been completed to curb the levels of abuse faced by MPs, the Huffington Post UK can reveal.

The leadership contest timetable was confirmed at last night’s NEC meeting, and saw September 21 as the day nominated for the end of the election.

A special paper on the leadership contest, passed to HuffPost UK, said the move to suspend local party meetings was to prevent further intimidation and violence of MPs and members.

“All normal party meetings at CLPs [Constituency Labour Parties] and branch level shall be suspended until the completion of the leadership election,” it ruled.

Only meetings for supporting leadership nominations, campaign planning meetings for by-elections or elected mayors, plus others agreed by the general secretary, will be allowed.

It comes after complaints of abuse received by MPs over their stance on Corbyn. Yesterday, Eagle’s constituency office was bricked.

The Labour leader himself also revealed he had received a tirade of death threats.

Despite Corbyn himself repeatedly calling for a “kinder, gentler politics”, his shadow chancellor John McDonnell said at a rally that Labour MPs had been “plotting and conniving” against their leader.

“The only good thing about it was, as plotters, they were fucking useless,” he added.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/l ... 78d6e76d80" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 1:58 pm

The pearl clutching in some quarters because McDonnell used a naughty word is even more risible than usual.

(and does it come from some of the same people who cheered on Jess Phillips when she told Diane Abbott to "f*** off"? Yes, yes it does)

Besides, on this J McD is absolutely correct isn't he

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 2:04 pm

ephemerid wrote:Thanks, AK and TO.

I don't know how the party heirarchy can ban individual CLPs from having meetings.

When we were campaigning here for the GE, the main Brecon&Radnor CLP had meetings all the time; but usually it's every month or so I think.
Our little local branch for Hay and Talgarth (there were 5 of us!) had one every 3 months.

If there's something big going on (and another leadership contest within a year is pretty big) I would have thought CLPs would want to meet more often. If a bunch of people want to get together, they will - ban or no ban.

This is getting sillier by the day.

A Labour MP is dead. Death threats, vandalism and raucous soundings off instead of respectful communication between Labour party members likely form the basis of the ruling. Friends can't get at Tory government who've put the hurt on Stoke for six years so in their despair they turn on those they can get their hands on. Happens all over the world, all the time, under the similar circumstances. It's sickening to be called an 'enemy', a 'traitor'. Don't fall too much in love with your opinions. You'll get something or other wrong and there's a friendship gone. Suspicions based upon harmless misunderstandings, something heard wrong lead to angry words and worse.

Police have been called in by the Manchester Gorton Labour party amid fears for the safety of members - following claims of bullying, intimidation and voting impropriety.
MP Sir Gerald Kaufman’s riven constituency party has now been suspended by party headquarters after reports of abusive behaviour by local members.
According to a letter from Labour head office, the CLP is now in discussions with Greater Manchester Police after members raised concerns over their safety.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... g-11603957" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 13 Jul, 2016 2:07 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:The pearl clutching in some quarters because McDonnell used a naughty word is even more risible than usual.

(and does it come from some of the same people who cheered on Jess Phillips when she told Diane Abbott to "f*** off"? Yes, yes it does)

Besides, on this J McD is absolutely correct isn't he

It's not a wise choice of words at this time.