Thursday 11th August 2016

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 6:27 am

Morning.

This is for Ephie

from yesterday's Telegraph.
Not that I'm suggesting you only watch the swimming for the budgie smugglers.

Have just used the settings on the site's friends and foes function, please feel free to add me to the latter.
Life's too short to waste time on useless interactions, and there are lots of lovely peeps here, of all views, to learn from, laugh, and cry with.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 6:32 am

And some [maybe] better news for steel in Wales:
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/b ... m-11732852" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 7:09 am

So, last night, I calculated that it would take me a mere 20,000,000 years to become a Duke of Westminster should I maintain my lifetime's rate of saving so far.

Turns out that it'll take the Duke of Westminster even longer than that to pay as much inheritance tax as will come from my estate once I pop my clogs...

I'm sure this is entirely fair and just and not at all an example of the rich and powerful completely taking the piss out of we plebs.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 7:13 am

PS. If I lower my sights a little, it'll only take me 11,000 years to become a 21st birthday party for a Duke of Westminster. Woohoo!

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 7:39 am

I wonder what the reaction to this shall be, Nuclear espionage charge for China firm with one-third stake in UK's Hinkley Point (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... kley-point).

'And who says it's the taking part that counts? It's the glory and roar of the crowd. Absolutely no-one could touch me in my last swimming race... They'd all left the pool as I floundered and struggled to complete the second length.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 7:41 am

I've got to the point where I cover my ears and go la la la, when anything is reported on Radio 4 about the appalling interest rates.
Back when we had a big mortgage we nearly got bankrupted by high interest rates, now we have savings we're being made to suffer.
Born at the wrong time.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 7:57 am

Yeah, yahyah. I remember my mortgage rate going up to 18%. I don't know what the standard rate was because i was self-employed. I still find it strange though, having to pay more than my staff taking on their mortgages while working for the same company.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 7:58 am

Morning all

The problem at the moment with the Brexit economy impact is that all the Lead measures look awful but it will take time to feed through to 'lag' such as unemployment, inflation etc etc - possibly too late to do anything about the cause. This is one reason I am pessimistic about there being a backtracking from the people who vioted Leave

Many people, with a microeconomic 'household finance' view of the economy probably see a benefit in ultra-low interest rates - especially homeowners and will decide accordingly

I am not at all confident that the most people will be any more aboe to see the coming problems, any more that they were able to see why austerity was such a problem

The understandable rationalisation of national finance by regard to household management is something that will be difficult to counter

Not going to mention specific recent issues on the forum- I do not think it helps going over old ground. All I would add isi that there is more that unites us than divides us. The people on this board are intelligent, thoughtful and interesting, especially when compared to elsewhere. I am trying, myself, not to react and also less provocative than I would naturally want to be over the next few weeks. I think we owe it to our board admins to try to get the board back on track - they perform a sterling job and allow us to have this forum available....we should show some respect to them by taking a breath and rebooting

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 8:00 am

&...on the Duke of Westminster.
Have reached page 97 of 'Sleeping with the Enemy' about Coco Chanel and her pre war and wartime activities and penchant for affairs with right wing anti-semites, homophobes and Nazi spies.

One of her lovers, 'Bendor' Grosvenor, the Duke of Westminster at the time, was pro-German, hated homosexuals and was also a close friend of Winston Churchill. As was Coco Chanel.
Jean Cocteau wrote about Churchill's visits to the Paris Ritz, where Winnie got drunk and cried in Chanel's arms.
Randolph Churchill was also a pal.

The book has several pics of her with Churchill, one with Chanel and Bendor Grosvenor in his company at Eaton Hall.
Another shows her with Churchill & Randolph at a hunt at Eaton Hall.

My point...there is one...is that the book, which uses papers from the state archives of various countries, and counter intelligence reports, says that historians claim that Churchill intervened to stop Chanel being tried for collaborating with the Nazis.

Chanel was a fan of, and friend of a close relative of Pierre Laval, the person who overrode Eichmann's decision not to deport French Jewish children under 16 years old.
He said he had no concern for them, and condemned those poor youngsters to awful experiences and death.

So what was Churchill doing associating with, and if true, protecting such a woman ?
At the rate I'm going it'll take a week or two to get to the evidence in the chapter dealing with that period as I am so tired when reading it in bed.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 8:03 am

utopiandreams wrote:Yeah, yahyah. I remember my mortgage rate going up to 18%. I don't know what the standard rate was because i was self-employed. I still find it strange though, having to pay more than my staff taking on their mortgages while working for the same company.

We had an ordinary mortgage and think it reached 15%, certainly 12% at one point, and hovered not much less than 10 or 8 for a while.

I call those years the Tory nightmare.

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 8:10 am

Crest Academy, an E-Act sponsored outfit, ruins kids chances of university by teaching the wrong standard.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... ment-error" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Standards, and all that.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 8:21 am

yahyah - thank you for the cartoon.

Chanel was a strange woman. But she made fabulous clothes.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 8:21 am

Further to my meme of the day... The DoW can lose 99.9% of his alleged wealth and still be a multi-millionaire. Me, I couldn't even afford a few hundred boxes of millionaires.

Someone on the national not-living wage (and let's be very generous by rounding it up to £10/hr) would take nearly 155,000 years to become a Duke of Westminster. And that's assuming they work 16 hours a day for almost every day of that period (also without eating and by being homeless)

"Broken Britain" someone once said. How right he was for all the wrong reasons.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 8:34 am

55DegreesNorth wrote:Crest Academy, an E-Act sponsored outfit, ruins kids chances of university by teaching the wrong standard.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... ment-error" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Standards, and all that.

"I think we've had enough of standards, don't you?"

I'm sure the person responsible will be named and shamed in the press... at about the same time as I become a DoW.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 8:36 am

<coughs> there's some new polling about he who cannot be mentioned.

https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also YouGov give Labour a welcome boost with a Tory lead of only 7 points.
Much better than last week. The change from a 14 point lead is Tories dropping 4 and Labour gaining 3 points.
But polls are not worth getting excited about.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 8:46 am

Pre double post of same information.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 8:50 am

HindleA wrote:...worsening the housing cruises

Just can't ship 'em out fast enough.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 8:51 am

Good morfternoon.

Sorry if we've already had this - I haven't yet checked the post-bed watershed posts.

Right-to-buy reform urged as council leaders fear for social housing

Figures show that replacements for homes sold under the right-to-buy scheme fell by 27% last year, worsening the housing crisis (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... cil-leader

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 8:52 am

@HindleA

Whoops!

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 8:56 am

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... are_btn_tw

Right-to-buy reform urged as council leaders fear for social housing
Figures show that replacements for homes sold under the right-to-buy scheme fell by 27% last year, worsening the housing cruises

Housing cruises, eh? Bloody scroungers. Getting free homes and going on cruises with their flat-screen tellies and smartphones.

It's a good article - and exactly what some of us have been saying for, er, years.....

2 million homes sold since the policy was introduced by Thatcher.
40% of those - 800,000 homes - are BTL properties now, and I would imagine a significant number of people renting them are in receipt of HB/LHA, especially if they are in London.

The new discounts are ridiculous - more than £100,000 in London - and the council can only keep a thrd of th cash raised from an already heavily discounted price. No wonder they can't afford to rebuild.

It's a mess.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 8:56 am

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/c ... ebsite.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

YouGov also asked about what are the most important issues facing the country, which party will deal with them best.

On Brexit:

Q. In hindsight do you think Britain was right or wrong to vote to leave the EU ?
Right to leave 45% (-1) Wrong to leave 44% (+2)

Q. Do you think Britain will be economically better or worse off after we leave the EU, or will it make no difference ?
Better off 26% (-3) Worse off 40% (+2) No difference 20% (-)

Q. Do you think leaving the Eu will have a good or bad influence on British jobs or will it make no difference ?
Good for jobs 23% (-1) Bad for jobs 36% (+1) No difference 26% (-)

Q. Do you think Britain leaving the EU will have a good or bad effect on peoples' pensions or will it make no difference ?
Good for pensions 9% (+1) Bad for pensions 31% (+1) No difference 35% (-1)

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 9:12 am

55DegreesNorth wrote:Crest Academy, an E-Act sponsored outfit, ruins kids chances of university by teaching the wrong standard.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... ment-error" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Standards, and all that.

Inadequate since June 2013 - serious weaknesses at the time and then into special measures in early 2015.

And yet not a sign of them being removed from E Act and given to another sponsor to run. Funny that...

Even odder was that they lost 10 schools in 2014...but obviously not those.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 9:16 am

yahyah wrote:&...on the Duke of Westminster.
Have reached page 97 of 'Sleeping with the Enemy' about Coco Chanel and her pre war and wartime activities and penchant for affairs with right wing anti-semites, homophobes and Nazi spies.

One of her lovers, 'Bendor' Grosvenor, the Duke of Westminster at the time, was pro-German, hated homosexuals and was also a close friend of Winston Churchill. As was Coco Chanel.
Jean Cocteau wrote about Churchill's visits to the Paris Ritz, where Winnie got drunk and cried in Chanel's arms.
Randolph Churchill was also a pal.

The book has several pics of her with Churchill, one with Chanel and Bendor Grosvenor in his company at Eaton Hall.
Another shows her with Churchill & Randolph at a hunt at Eaton Hall.

My point...there is one...is that the book, which uses papers from the state archives of various countries, and counter intelligence reports, says that historians claim that Churchill intervened to stop Chanel being tried for collaborating with the Nazis.

Chanel was a fan of, and friend of a close relative of Pierre Laval, the person who overrode Eichmann's decision not to deport French Jewish children under 16 years old.
He said he had no concern for them, and condemned those poor youngsters to awful experiences and death.

So what was Churchill doing associating with, and if true, protecting such a woman ?
At the rate I'm going it'll take a week or two to get to the evidence in the chapter dealing with that period as I am so tired when reading it in bed.

Well it says on wikipedia:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coco_Chanel

The extent of Churchill's intervention for Chanel after the war became a subject of gossip and speculation. Some historians claimed that people worried that....

But suspect that might spoil your enjoyment of the book.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 9:19 am

oh no....need to hide

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... er-holiday" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 9:28 am

You rotter tinyb. I'd never have guessed the ending

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 9:35 am

yahyah wrote:https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/c ... ebsite.pdf

YouGov also asked about what are the most important issues facing the country, which party will deal with them best.

On Brexit:

Q. In hindsight do you think Britain was right or wrong to vote to leave the EU ?
Right to leave 45% (-1) Wrong to leave 44% (+2)

Q. Do you think Britain will be economically better or worse off after we leave the EU, or will it make no difference ?
Better off 26% (-3) Worse off 40% (+2) No difference 20% (-)

Q. Do you think leaving the Eu will have a good or bad influence on British jobs or will it make no difference ?
Good for jobs 23% (-1) Bad for jobs 36% (+1) No difference 26% (-)

Q. Do you think Britain leaving the EU will have a good or bad effect on peoples' pensions or will it make no difference ?
Good for pensions 9% (+1) Bad for pensions 31% (+1) No difference 35% (-1)

So the marginally slim majority agree that leaving is bad for the economy, bad for jobs, bad for pensions but still the best thing to do - beyond farce !

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 9:47 am

Good morning all,
Apologies for mentioning The Topic Which Must Not Be Named, but I don't believe that there was much mention of the GMB coming out in favour of Owen Smith.
I've been away for a couple of weeks, so further apologies if this has already been posted (and even further apologies for the quality of the reproduction, my scanner is knackered so I had to take a photo).
It's from the latest Private Eye, and seems to imply that the GMB vote 60-40 in favour of Smith over Corbyn may not be all it seems:

: GMB2.gif (64.68 KiB) Viewed 17121 times

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 9:51 am

pk1 wrote:
yahyah wrote:https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/c ... ebsite.pdf

YouGov also asked about what are the most important issues facing the country, which party will deal with them best.

On Brexit:

Q. In hindsight do you think Britain was right or wrong to vote to leave the EU ?
Right to leave 45% (-1) Wrong to leave 44% (+2)

Q. Do you think Britain will be economically better or worse off after we leave the EU, or will it make no difference ?
Better off 26% (-3) Worse off 40% (+2) No difference 20% (-)

Q. Do you think leaving the Eu will have a good or bad influence on British jobs or will it make no difference ?
Good for jobs 23% (-1) Bad for jobs 36% (+1) No difference 26% (-)

Q. Do you think Britain leaving the EU will have a good or bad effect on peoples' pensions or will it make no difference ?
Good for pensions 9% (+1) Bad for pensions 31% (+1) No difference 35% (-1)
So the marginally slim majority agree that leaving is bad for the economy, bad for jobs, bad for pensions but still the best thing to do - beyond farce !

I read it as they feel it'll be good or no difference, remainers feel it'll be bad or no difference.

Foolishly allowing myself to be wound up by the selective look, Labour are sexist because of the men lines being pushed by the usual suspects.

Logic seems to be

Eagle convinced not to stand by the PLP votes. Smith not standing aside for Eagle. Fine. He's the stronger candidate.

Berger on the list but losing. Bad. Shows Labour should have all female candidates.

Morning all btw.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 10:04 am

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... -june-2016" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Latest delayed transfer of care figures

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 10:06 am

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... -year-olds" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Open consultation
Early years funding: changes to funding for 3- and 4-year-olds

https://consult.education.gov.uk/early- ... ding/eynff" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 10:09 am

pk1 wrote:
yahyah wrote:https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/c ... ebsite.pdf

YouGov also asked about what are the most important issues facing the country, which party will deal with them best.

On Brexit:

Q. In hindsight do you think Britain was right or wrong to vote to leave the EU ?
Right to leave 45% (-1) Wrong to leave 44% (+2)

Q. Do you think Britain will be economically better or worse off after we leave the EU, or will it make no difference ?
Better off 26% (-3) Worse off 40% (+2) No difference 20% (-)

Q. Do you think leaving the Eu will have a good or bad influence on British jobs or will it make no difference ?
Good for jobs 23% (-1) Bad for jobs 36% (+1) No difference 26% (-)

Q. Do you think Britain leaving the EU will have a good or bad effect on peoples' pensions or will it make no difference ?
Good for pensions 9% (+1) Bad for pensions 31% (+1) No difference 35% (-1)
So the marginally slim majority agree that leaving is bad for the economy, bad for jobs, bad for pensions but still the best thing to do - beyond farce !

My personal take on it in pessimistic moments is that leavers were miserable so they voted to make the rest of us miserable as well. So if we're all miserable, job done.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 10:11 am

http://npi.org.uk/publications/income-a ... d-poverty/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Disability and Poverty

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 10:19 am

Yikes !

@MSmithsonPB
LAB down to 26% with TNS - most accurate #EURef pollster
CON 39%, LAB 26%, UKIP 11%, LIB DEM 10%, GRN 7%,

@MSmithsonPB
A new poll by TNS BMRB shows that 44% of people think Theresa May is a better leader for Britain than Corbyn (16%).

@MSmithsonPB
TNS poll finds 45% of those who voted for LAB at GE2015 say Corbyn is performing badly in his role as party leader.

@MSmithsonPB
TNS poll: Support for Theresa May is strongest with 55+ women. 68% say she makes the best leader for Britain with only saying 9% Corbyn

Sorry, no link as yet but 26% is the lowest I've seen in any poll thus far

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 10:27 am

pk1 wrote:Yikes !

@MSmithsonPB
LAB down to 26% with TNS - most accurate #EURef pollster
CON 39%, LAB 26%, UKIP 11%, LIB DEM 10%, GRN 7%,

@MSmithsonPB
A new poll by TNS BMRB shows that 44% of people think Theresa May is a better leader for Britain than Corbyn (16%).

@MSmithsonPB
TNS poll finds 45% of those who voted for LAB at GE2015 say Corbyn is performing badly in his role as party leader.

@MSmithsonPB
TNS poll: Support for Theresa May is strongest with 55+ women. 68% say she makes the best leader for Britain with only saying 9% Corbyn
Sorry, no link as yet but 26% is the lowest I've seen in any poll thus far

How does that sit with yahyah's earlier post? (I can't get yahyah's link to work)?

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 10:40 am

StephenDolan wrote:... Labour are sexist because of the men lines being pushed by the usual suspects.

There seems to have been a lot of talk of sexism lately and indeed putting women into uncompromising positions and uninvited touching is thoroughly reprehensible, indeed I have myself challenged blokes that have done so. Nevertheless I sometimes wonder whether complaints go a little too far. Have they ever been or seen a bloke enter a largely female workplace, especially if they be young? They are far more vociferous and gropy than the average male.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 10:42 am

Link here if anybody wants to watch today's Court of Appeal hearing:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-p ... s-36302144" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 10:49 am

Maybe I should buy a boat with my pension. Just as well it weren't a company one else I'd have paid for somebody else's.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 10:57 am

Immeasurable damage has already been done, but despite the backlash I'd still like our government to finally admit that Brexit really is not deliverable.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 11:08 am

HindleA wrote:https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... -june-2016

Latest delayed transfer of care figures

My wife spent four months in hospital after her brain haemorrhage, A, the last one because she couldn't be discharged back home and there being no alternative. She still needed full time nursing but there was no more they could do for her clinically. I did find a half decent place, which fell through only leaving us one other option. I appreciate that home is not an option in most bed-blocking cases but in hers I still maintain that it would have been better. Besides that was all she wanted and kept blaming me for not allowing it... and then there was the small matter of cost.

Edit: removed 'other' before 'alternative'

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 11:08 am

utopiandreams wrote:Immeasurable damage has already been done, but despite the backlash I'd still like our government to finally admit that Brexit really is not deliverable.

Brexit means Brexit.

We just need to find out what

Teresa May means by 'Brexit and what the EU mean by A50.

All the talk of negotiations and pre A50 talks, what is allowed formally, informally, unofficially. Hints of spy novels.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 11:13 am

pk1 wrote:Link here if anybody wants to watch today's Court of Appeal hearing:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-p ... s-36302144" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm watching it - but I'm very distracted by the wig slippage\itchy head problem.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 11:17 am

utopiandreams wrote:Immeasurable damage has already been done, but despite the backlash I'd still like our government to finally admit that Brexit really is not deliverable.

Cameron has got off far too lightly for his unconscionable dereliction of responsibility. It was his choice to offer the extremely challenging and complex option of leaving the EU in the way you might offer someone the choice between a Snickers and a Mars Bar. Bad enough he offered the choice at all, but the least he could have done was give the media and public a few years to discuss it, as with the Scottish Indy ref. Not to mention draw up credible plans for how the UK could look outside the EU, as the SNP were expected to do re Scotland. Did any politician actually query the short time scale when the legislation to hold the referendum went through parliament?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 11:19 am

PorFavor wrote:
How does that sit with yahyah's earlier post? (I can't get yahyah's link to work)?

That they were the "most accurate" for the referendum doesn't mean much tbh. Referendums and GEs are different things.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 11:20 am

PorFavor wrote:
pk1 wrote:Link here if anybody wants to watch today's Court of Appeal hearing:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-p ... s-36302144" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm watching it - but I'm very distracted by the wig slippage\itchy head problem.

Me too. I'm also wondering if this judge always interrupts the barrister every few sentences or whether he's showboating on account of this being the first CoA broadcasting. Most irritating !

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 11:23 am

@StephenDolan

I humbly suggest you check your spelling of Theresa, Steve. I believe Teresa is somebody else entirely. Learned it from cif. Honest.

Lost Soul · Post by **Lost Soul** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 11:24 am

danesclose wrote:Good morning all,
Apologies for mentioning The Topic Which Must Not Be Named, but I don't believe that there was much mention of the GMB coming out in favour of Owen Smith.
I've been away for a couple of weeks, so further apologies if this has already been posted (and even further apologies for the quality of the reproduction, my scanner is knackered so I had to take a photo).
It's from the latest Private Eye, and seems to imply that the GMB vote 60-40 in favour of Smith over Corbyn may not be all it seems:

GMB2.gif

Well- haven't followed it up and really don't know much more than this but :

Eleanor Garnier ‏@BBCEleanorG 5m5 minutes ago
*** BREAKING *** GMB Union backs Owen Smith for Labour leader 60% voted for Smith, 40% voted for Corbyn and 43,419 voted

43,419 voted - implies that the result wasn't steered in the way the Private Eye article suggests.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 11:27 am

However much I decry Fat Dave and the Tories for the referendum, Willow, I still hold the PLP partly responsible for how it was conducted having voted with the government after the GE.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 11:28 am

Well, that was a turnout of about 7% overall - not massively impressive tbh

(also claims that many if not all Scottish GMB members missed getting a vote, not sure if that is true but just putting it out there)

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 11:31 am

I thought I'd read 18% somewhere, Anatoly, but may be speaking of something else. I didn't really pay it any attention and may even be thinking of another union should there be one backing Smith.

Lost Soul · Post by **Lost Soul** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 11:32 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Well, that was a turnout of about 7% overall - not massively impressive tbh

(also claims that many if not all Scottish GMB members missed getting a vote, not sure if that is true but just putting it out there)

ah...