Saturday, 13th August - Sunday, 14th August 2016

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 9:35 pm

frog222 wrote:
Lost Soul wrote:
citizenJA wrote: Has there been MSM coverage of last night's Stoke Central Labour meeting contradicting Phil BC's interesting account of last night's Stoke Central meeting? I've not seen any. Does Stoke Central want an award for not harassing Labour party members who disagree with each other? It's not for nothing you've gone out of your way to report how 'generally speaking' anyone not supporting Jeremy Corbyn isn't getting heckled, told to go join Tories, booed or otherwise had a rough time for supporting Smith. I left the last Labour meeting I attended in tears.
Ours was last night and apparently voted Corbyn. Our MP is supporting Smith - I'd emailed to thank her for a very long email outlining exactly why she'd made that choice.
I also had an email just before the meeting to ask me to attend ( the implication was that Smith supporters were reluctant attendees )
I didn't go in the end. I really couldn't face it. I've had enough 'strong' language on local social media without risking the face to face kind. The 'online people' were attending and were pushing the event as 'deciding how we're all going to vote'.
It's not. The nomination meetings are not mandatory and really don't tell us anything other than that the people who show up are more likely to be Corbyn supporters.

I'm voting for Smith. The Labour party members I know socially, I'll include relatives in that, are all confirmed Smith voters.

I don't know how this is going to go. My feeling is that Corbyn will win. If he does, my resignation letter will go in. Not because of Corbyn himself but because of my experience of his more vocal supporters. I've been a Labour voter since Thatcher - I've dug into my pocket for each election campaign ( every week for Ed Milliband ) but I think I've reached the end . I'm shocked at how blummen' rude other Labour members have been and I'm tired of it.

I didn't go in the end. I really couldn't face it. I've had enough 'strong' language on local social media without risking the face to face kind.
Sticks and stones breaking no bones are a thought-possibility, dear Lost Soul,

for , words are just ... words

Being myself a formerly six-footer ( now shrunk with age to about 5'9 ! ) but still quite imposing, I'd have no prob meeting a few noisy Trots.

Sociologically and even journalistically speaking, I'd have prefered you to have gone to the meeting, just to really know if your worst fears actually happened !

PS A few idiots being 'blumming rude' does not negate any movement or 'idea shared ' .

We are surrounded by idiots .

They are the electorate FFS !

Some really bad stuff aimed at Corbyn and his supporters too.

MsChin · Post by **MsChin** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 9:51 pm

@ LostSoul

Hang on in there for a while & turn a deaf ear to social media which operates on algorithms, not reality.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 9:55 pm

Labour MPs call on David Miliband to return and topple Jeremy Corbyn as leader
Labour MPs are appealing to David Miliband to return to UK politics in a desperate bid to oust Jeremy Corbyn .
Senior backbenchers want Miliband, who quit politics to run a charity in the US, back here as quickly as possible.
And they say one possible route would be for him to stand in the Batley and Spen seat left empty by the killing of Jo Cox.
No date has been set for a by-election but rumours are growing that the solid Labour seat would be ideal for Miliband.

One backbencher said: “It’s something that is being looked at. This would give David time to get back into the swing of Parliament, build up his profile and then mount a leadership challenge.
“A lot of people think he’d be the perfect solution.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/la ... ar_twitter

Post by **refitman** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 10:00 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Labour MPs call on David Miliband to return and topple Jeremy Corbyn as leader
Labour MPs are appealing to David Miliband to return to UK politics in a desperate bid to oust Jeremy Corbyn .
Senior backbenchers want Miliband, who quit politics to run a charity in the US, back here as quickly as possible.
And they say one possible route would be for him to stand in the Batley and Spen seat left empty by the killing of Jo Cox.
No date has been set for a by-election but rumours are growing that the solid Labour seat would be ideal for Miliband.

One backbencher said: “It’s something that is being looked at. This would give David time to get back into the swing of Parliament, build up his profile and then mount a leadership challenge.
“A lot of people think he’d be the perfect solution.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/la ... ar_twitter

Are they completely fruit loop*? In what world would Captain Banana beat Corbyn?

*see what I did there?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 10:06 pm

refitman wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
Labour MPs call on David Miliband to return and topple Jeremy Corbyn as leader
Labour MPs are appealing to David Miliband to return to UK politics in a desperate bid to oust Jeremy Corbyn .
Senior backbenchers want Miliband, who quit politics to run a charity in the US, back here as quickly as possible.
And they say one possible route would be for him to stand in the Batley and Spen seat left empty by the killing of Jo Cox.
No date has been set for a by-election but rumours are growing that the solid Labour seat would be ideal for Miliband.

One backbencher said: “It’s something that is being looked at. This would give David time to get back into the swing of Parliament, build up his profile and then mount a leadership challenge.
“A lot of people think he’d be the perfect solution.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/la ... ar_twitter
Are they completely fruit loop*? In what world would Captain Banana beat Corbyn?

*see what I did there?

I wonder what Smith thinks of it. ...

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 10:08 pm

More disarray and rows.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 10:10 pm

Telling that quite a few Smith supporters tonight are being scathing about this.

It really does drive home how a section of the PLP are utterly clueless f***wits

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 10:17 pm

David S Briggs ‏@OrkneyBear 33m33 minutes ago
Would he be daft enough to accept this? Can they guarantee a CLP would acquiesce to a political fix like this? Mad.

Steve Topple @MrTopple
The PLP really *don't* get it.
With the CLP noms for Corbyn stacking up, they think a parachute job is a good idea?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 10:22 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Telling that quite a few Smith supporters tonight are being scathing about this.

It really does drive home how a section of the PLP are utterly clueless f***wits

It's a horrible snub. I'm not surprised they're not happy.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 10:23 pm

David Miliband? Mr Cyanide Capsule? Madness. Even I'd vote for Jeremy Corbyn if the choice came down to a contest between the two of them. I'd even get nasty . . .

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 10:30 pm

Liam Fox and Boris Johnson locked in feud over who controls Britain's foreign policy

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08 ... um=twitter

And in the meantime.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 10:47 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Liam Fox and Boris Johnson locked in feud over who controls Britain's foreign policy

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08 ... um=twitter
And in the meantime.

Good to see that they're really knuckling down and getting on with the job in hand and not simply bickering about the size of their role and who does what...

The alleged May response reminds me of Father Ted - "Down with this sort of thing!"

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 10:49 pm

PETER OBORNE: Mandelson, his Chinese chums and some very disturbing questions

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... tions.html

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 11:11 pm

(((Huw))) ‏@ed_son 24m24 minutes ago

Hi @Number10gov. Now you see what can be achieved in sport with adequate funding, I wondered if you might try this approach with education.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 11:15 pm

Slow news day - lets dig up David Miliband...

David Miliband 'to be given top US government job if Hillary Clinton becomes president

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04 ... lary-clin/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 1:05 am

ohsocynical wrote:
Labour MPs call on David Miliband to return and topple Jeremy Corbyn as leader
Labour MPs are appealing to David Miliband to return to UK politics in a desperate bid to oust Jeremy Corbyn .
Senior backbenchers want Miliband, who quit politics to run a charity in the US, back here as quickly as possible.
And they say one possible route would be for him to stand in the Batley and Spen seat left empty by the killing of Jo Cox.
No date has been set for a by-election but rumours are growing that the solid Labour seat would be ideal for Miliband.

One backbencher said: “It’s something that is being looked at. This would give David time to get back into the swing of Parliament, build up his profile and then mount a leadership challenge.
“A lot of people think he’d be the perfect solution.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/la ... ar_twitter

And they're playing the joker!

Edited to add:
It's ironic(Well, I think it might be, but it is 4 a.m.) That Corbyn's supporters get accused of being in a personality cult, while David Miliband gets lauded like Labour's Bonnie Prince Charlie, the once & future King.

extankie · Post by **extankie** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 7:36 am

Wasn`t Milliband (D) implicated in the "rendition" (nice word btw) scandal? I could nor would ever vote for such an excuse for a human being. (Even with thumbscrews attached) Also, the tories would have a field day with it.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 7:54 am

People who know D Miliband's career in UK politics is over include D Miliband.

Only people who want to refight the battles of ten years ago, rather than the much more fraught one of today, would even discuss it.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 7:56 am

Lengthy Corbyn interview

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -education" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What I think of it doesn't need saying.

An unrationed NHS? Interesting "idea".

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 7:59 am

I will say that Corbyn doesn't seem to know how the UK Supreme Court works. You can't appeal to it as a matter of right you need leave. They'll only hear the case if it raises a point of law that needs clarifying.

The freeze date case is one of contract construction. That raises no issue of law.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 8:25 am

Nice piece if fact checking

http://underthreehundred.blogspot.co.uk ... e.html?m=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 8:50 am

PorFavor wrote:David Miliband? Mr Cyanide Capsule? Madness. Even I'd vote for Jeremy Corbyn if the choice came down to a contest between the two of them. I'd even get nasty . . .

genuinely terrified at that thought of how that might manifest

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 8:55 am

ohsocynical wrote:
Liam Fox and Boris Johnson locked in feud over who controls Britain's foreign policy

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08 ... um=twitter
And in the meantime.

Exactly. Once chance for Labour to reveal themselves as adults/safe pair of hands utterly blown.
May now most popular British politician after overtaking Johnson.

What a country eh.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 8:57 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
Liam Fox and Boris Johnson locked in feud over who controls Britain's foreign policy

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08 ... um=twitter
And in the meantime.

Good to see that they're really knuckling down and getting on with the job in hand and not simply bickering about the size of their role and who does what...

The alleged May response reminds me of Father Ted - "Down with this sort of thing!"

Indeed. None of them come out of this well given actual national priorities.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 9:09 am

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 89396.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
this is quite cheering.

Inside the store [Sainsbury's], kissing couples lined the aisles while others cheered and waved rainbow flags. Some, including a drag-queen towering in leather heels, danced in the shop window.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 9:09 am

There is not nearly enough dancing in supermarket windows to my mind.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 9:21 am

This stuff about certain MPs wanting the return of David Miliband ... sheesh.

I think it's a short hop from the wishful thinking that 'we could have won if we'd had David in charge instead of his brother' to the fervent wish that he would return in the manner of the prince across the water.

David simply had too much baggage. I can just imagine the outrage Nick f*****g Clegg would have regularly worked himself up into, denouncing D Miliband. Didn't the Coalition order some sort of investigation into extraordinary rendition and torture, something they subsequently didn't bother to do anything with? That would have been something they'd have been planning to use as a stick to beat David with if he'd had won the leadership.

David would have been just as monstered as Ed by the Tory media, simply for being Labour leader. He'd have just been monstered for different reasons. And maybe some of the same reasons - eg looking 'weird' (= Jewish) and having a dad who apparently 'hated Britain'.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 9:27 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:David Miliband? Mr Cyanide Capsule? Madness. Even I'd vote for Jeremy Corbyn if the choice came down to a contest between the two of them. I'd even get nasty . . .
genuinely terrified at that thought of how that might manifest

Those commas and apostrophes could wreak havoc.
Can't imagine PF being nasty though, so we'll never know.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 9:29 am

Some ComRes polling, for those interested:

Haven't seen a Westminster voting intention.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 9:36 am

My husband has a mate who is a Labour councillor and an election agent for a Labour MP - he regularly has lunch with some friends who are Labour MPs and Labour peers. It's a real bone of contention that there are certain MPs who 'can't move on' (that's the phrase that was used). Having said that, neither are they Corbyn fans.

They don't doubt he's a good and principled man, but he's got no idea how to be an effective leader - and some of the people around him are poisonous - eg Andrew Fisher, who celebrated when Ed Balls lost his seat to Tory airhead Andrea Jenkyns, and once described a Labour shadow cabinet as a 'shower of shite'.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 9:42 am

The Mirror commissioned the poll, their take on the results:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/po ... ng-8626072" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The general electorate is out of step with Labour voters on preferring Smith/Corbyn.
Or it is the Labour voters who are out of step, depending on your viewpoint

edited to change Labour membership which was wrong, to the correct Labour voters.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 10:05 am

Dan the man Hodges from today's Mail.

OWEN'S A CHAMPION LOSER
Ed Miliband famously had his ‘35 per cent strategy’ – the belief that if he could secure that percentage of the vote in last year’s Election he would become PM. Now, I am told, Owen Smith is pursuing a new version – the ‘40 per cent strategy’.

Although the official line from Smith and other Labour rebels is that he is still pushing hard to defeat Jeremy Corbyn, in reality few people believe that is a realistic possibility.

Instead they have identified a threshold of 40 per cent of the total votes, which they believe is the minimum he must achieve for his challenge to be a ‘success’. The thinking is that this would leave Labour MPs ‘within striking distance’ of Corbyn, paving the way for a fresh leadership challenge some time next year.

It would also make it unlikely that Corbyn and his allies would be able to mobilise sufficient activists to mount a concerted attempt to deselect MPs in revenge for the coup.

This is because while Labour ‘supporters’ may cast a vote for the party leader, only full members get a say in selecting MPs. According to insiders, Len McCluskey’s Unite union is currently setting up affiliated branches in several Constituency Labour Parties with a view to inflicting ‘punishment beatings’ on the rebels.

But unless Corbyn can himself break the 60 per cent barrier, the feeling is they will not have sufficient strength to unseat many sitting MPs.

‘The fact is, Corbyn doesn’t have the numbers to throw out any half-decent constituency MP,’ said one former Shadow Minister. ‘Unite can organise, but then we’ll just get the GMB to counter-organise. And then it’s stalemate.’

So stalemate beckons if Owen Smith’s 40 per cent strategy works. And that’s quite a big ‘if’. Just ask Ed Miliband

.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... nd-up.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 10:08 am

Tories - plummeting in the polls post brexit (26 June) to May as most popular British politician (13 Aug) courtesy of our Labour party. The one that's supposed to work to protect us from the Tories.

Well done chaps and chappesses.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 10:21 am

nickyinnorfolk wrote:My husband has a mate who is a Labour councillor and an election agent for a Labour MP - he regularly has lunch with some friends who are Labour MPs and Labour peers. It's a real bone of contention that there are certain MPs who 'can't move on' (that's the phrase that was used). Having said that, neither are they Corbyn fans.

They don't doubt he's a good and principled man, but he's got no idea how to be an effective leader - and some of the people around him are poisonous - eg Andrew Fisher, who celebrated when Ed Balls lost his seat to Tory airhead Andrea Jenkyns, and once described a Labour shadow cabinet as a 'shower of shite'.

I agree about Fisher. And, of course, Milne.

Though perhaps we can hope for some personnel changes if JC is indeed re-elected.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 10:40 am

Top quality journalism from the Heil on Sunday: apart from Andy Burnham, which politicians most resemble Thunderbirds characters?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... litcs.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Javid certainly is a dead ringer for the evil Hood.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 10:49 am

To start my day off.

https://www.facebook.com/rejuvenateyour ... =2&theater

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 10:50 am

Brexit 'delay' could leave UK in EU until late 2019
https://www.politicshome.com/news/europ ... -late-2019" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But City insiders in close contact with government figures have told The Sunday Times the new ministries for Brexit and International Trade may not be ready in time......

“Ministers are now thinking the trigger could be delayed to autumn 2017,” a source who has apparently had discussions with two senior ministers told the paper.

“They don’t have the infrastructure for the people they need to hire.

“They say they don’t even know the right questions to ask when they finally begin bargaining with Europe.”

Our competent government.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 10:57 am

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ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 10:58 am

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AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 11:05 am

Yes, during the South Shields byelection which followed DM's move to the US people moving into the seat to assist Labour's campaign found to their horror that there was virtually no usable canvassing data at all - the previous MP just hadn't bothered doing it, after all "his seat was safe anyway"

The local party was generally in a state of decrepitude, it has been revitalised under his successor.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 11:08 am

yahyah wrote:

Gosh, that House of Lords question is extraordinarily loaded in such a way that it all but guarantees a 'yes' in favour of keeping it. You can respond yes to both questions and be 100% right. Yes, it does perform a valuable check on the HoC. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be replaced (not abolished!) with something that's actually democratic and representative.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 11:17 am

I'm posting here. It's inflamatory but needs airing I think. However, if Refitman or PfY want to remove it, or put it onto the Corbyn thread I will understand.

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Post by **refitman** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 11:21 am

ohsocynical wrote:I'm posting here. It's inflamatory but needs airing I think. However, if Refitman or PfY want to remove it, or put it onto the Corbyn thread I will understand.

Cpzj4NPWIAAeUoU.jpg

But rich, writing something like that for the Mail.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 11:38 am

refitman wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:I'm posting here. It's inflamatory but needs airing I think. However, if Refitman or PfY want to remove it, or put it onto the Corbyn thread I will understand.

Cpzj4NPWIAAeUoU.jpg
But rich, writing something like that for the Mail.

And for their section called Right Minds.

Seriously, does he really not realise what that makes him look like?

And "Nazi stormtroopers"?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 11:42 am

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 11:46 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:
refitman wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:I'm posting here. It's inflamatory but needs airing I think. However, if Refitman or PfY want to remove it, or put it onto the Corbyn thread I will understand.

Cpzj4NPWIAAeUoU.jpg
But rich, writing something like that for the Mail.
And for their section called Right Minds.

Seriously, does he really not realise what that makes him look like?

And "Nazi stormtroopers"?

I am fast falling out of love with the Labour Party.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 11:49 am

Wondering where I can obtain a geriatric storm troopers outfit.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 11:53 am

ohsocynical wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:
refitman wrote: But rich, writing something like that for the Mail.
And for their section called Right Minds.

Seriously, does he really not realise what that makes him look like?

And "Nazi stormtroopers"?

I am fast falling out of love with the Labour Party.

He's the one who brought that frivolous and vexatious legal action against Corbyn being on the leadership ballot. He lost, and is losing more generally.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 11:53 am

Oh dear...

Justine Greening linked to 63 schools closed by Uganda government

http://schoolsweek.co.uk/justine-greeni ... overnment/

A firm running “low cost” private schools in Africa, financially backed by an investment scheme launched by Justine Greening while she was international development secretary, will close all its schools in Uganda for failing to meet basic education standards.

The Ugandan government announced on Friday that the 63 schools run by the for-profit commercial private school chain Bridge International Academies (BIA) will be shut for failing to meet basic guidelines, including over hygiene and sanitation.

The announcement is embarrassing for new education secretary Greening, who was in charge of the Department for International Development (DfID) when the £75 million impact fund was set up and sanctioned the investment in BIA.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 14 Aug, 2016 11:55 am

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