Saturday, 13th August - Sunday, 14th August 2016

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 8:01 am

Good morfternoon.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 8:12 am

Morning PF.

Philip Hammond has announced some assurances to continue funding for EU projects, Carwyn Jones says it will only cover about half the regional funds for Wales.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/polit ... g-11743589" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still have to pinch myself to check it is real when reading the words ''Neil Hamilton, Leader of Welsh Ukip''.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 8:34 am

The Mail are reporting that Farage is 'distressed' after one of his close aides has been arrested after an FBI sting.

The aide, who runs Farage's private office and travelled to the US with Farage to meet Trump, has been charged with alleged extortion, fraud and money laundering relating to drug dealing on the Dark Web.

Haven't found a more reliable link, so far it is the Mail & Express reporting it.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 8:36 am

Our Olympic cyclists are just amazing. Well done, all!

Tristram Hunt's CLP has declared for Corbyn, having voted for Cooper last time.
Current status is 85% of CLPs in total have voted, with Corbyn getting 66% of the vote.
That's 304 CLPs which have made nominations; 255 for Corbyn and 45 for Smith.
Last time he had 49% of the votes, so it's looking good for him so far.

The Martin Rowson cartoon is very good today.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 8:53 am

My CLP voted for Corbyn too.

Can't read the attached documents to find out more, from the CLP email I got this morning, as I don't have Office with my new laptop.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 9:01 am

Just checked out Llafur Ceredigion/Ceredigion Labour's Twitter account.

Good to see they have retweeted Paul Flynn's request to ''...halt petty personal attacks on Leader candidates. Labour's credibility ultimately suffers ''

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 9:03 am

ephemerid wrote:Our Olympic cyclists are just amazing. Well done, all!

Tristram Hunt's CLP has declared for Corbyn, having voted for Cooper last time.
Current status is 85% of CLPs in total have voted, with Corbyn getting 66% of the vote.
That's 304 CLPs which have made nominations; 255 for Corbyn and 45 for Smith.
Last time he had 49% of the votes, so it's looking good for him so far.

The Martin Rowson cartoon is very good today.

Has anyone totted up the total number of nomination votes does anyone know ?
Just wondering how they look set against the total number of Labour members eligible to vote ?
Realise the latter is a case of constantly moving goal posts depending on the latest court ruling.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 9:26 am

yahyah wrote:My CLP voted for Corbyn too.

Can't read the attached documents to find out more, from the CLP email I got this morning, as I don't have Office with my new laptop.

I'm assuming you're on a Windows laptop: if you don't mind using Open Source Software, try OpenOffice (http://www.openoffice.org/).

It's imperfect but generally fine for opening simple Office documents, etc.

Edit: also free, obviously, otherwise you may as well pay for Office.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 9:30 am

Thanks Jonny. Looks like rain this afternoon so will try that out.
Am loathe to increase Microsoft's wallet size.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 9:31 am

Yahyah - re your last question: dunno. There's bound to be a big gap, I suspect.

On Philip Hammond's announcement, read the small print.
What is actually going to happen is this - the EU will continue to fund projects is it already committed to for another 2 years; the UK will pay 1 more year of credits to the EU. Presumably this is while divorce proceedings continue and they work out who gets to kep the CDs.

MsChin · Post by **MsChin** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 10:01 am

yahyah wrote:
ephemerid wrote:Our Olympic cyclists are just amazing. Well done, all!

Tristram Hunt's CLP has declared for Corbyn, having voted for Cooper last time.
Current status is 85% of CLPs in total have voted, with Corbyn getting 66% of the vote.
That's 304 CLPs which have made nominations; 255 for Corbyn and 45 for Smith.
Last time he had 49% of the votes, so it's looking good for him so far.

The Martin Rowson cartoon is very good today.
Has anyone totted up the total number of nomination votes does anyone know ?
Just wondering how they look set against the total number of Labour members eligible to vote ?
Realise the latter is a case of constantly moving goal posts depending on the latest court ruling.

Nominations for JC so far are 255, with those for OS at 49. So that's 304 CLPs out of about 650.
There's a Twitter a/c which is collating & mapping results as they come in - @CLPNominations. If you compare their earlier maps with one showing constituencies by political party, most of the early nominations were in Tory areas. Two of the Sheffield constituencies (Brightside & Hillsborough and Heeley) nominated JC last night; SE Sheffield constituency isn't having a nomination meeting cos there's a local by election campaign on and we still have to fend off UKIP round here. There's not much interest in nominating anyone from members.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 10:09 am

: CprC1N9W8AE_Dhz.jpg (20.42 KiB) Viewed 12344 times

Official notes from Ceredigion CLP nomination meeting

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 10:23 am

Nine academics have written to the BBC requesting a meeting about the 'significant groundswell of concerns' over it's coverage of Corbyn.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/j ... 75601bd169" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 10:25 am

MsChin wrote:
Nominations for JC so far are 255, with those for OS at 49. So that's 304 CLPs out of about 650.
There's a Twitter a/c which is collating & mapping results as they come in - @CLPNominations. If you compare their earlier maps with one showing constituencies by political party, most of the early nominations were in Tory areas. Two of the Sheffield constituencies (Brightside & Hillsborough and Heeley) nominated JC last night; SE Sheffield constituency isn't having a nomination meeting cos there's a local by election campaign on and we still have to fend off UKIP round here. There's not much interest in nominating anyone from members.

Morning, Chinny - lovely to see you here!

I'm sure your figures are correct - which begs the question why are some Tweeters saying that more CLPs have nominated than is the case? (BTW - these are mainly pro-Corbyn people)

So we are actually about half way, and we don't know how many more CLPs will actually bother with a nominaton, do we?

The most recent map is interesting - there's a lot of support for Smith in Scotland; it's about 50/50 in London; and there is a lot of support for Corbyn outside the big cities.

Here in Brecon&Radnor, I have no idea what will happen. Our PPC for Labour last time, Matthew Dorrance, supports Smith; but I do know that some of my erstwhile colleagues in the CLP support Corbyn. I've no idea if they are having a nomination meeting, as I'm out of the comms loop now.

I also understand that crowd-funding has raised more than £50K for the 5 people who lost their case yesterday. People are good.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 10:33 am

Polls suggest Iceland's Pirate party may form next government
Most analysts are confident that the radical democrats – in favour of legalising drugs and offering asylum to Edward Snowden – will win 18-20 MPs in October

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... government

MsChin · Post by **MsChin** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 10:43 am

Cheers, ephe.

There's an interesting long piece at (yuck) Conservative Home about New Towns, covering the history & demography which makes them fertile territory for Tories hunting votes. Bracknell is one of those New Towns so of interest to OhSo, I'm sure.

There's another article over there about how brilliant it is that farmers will keep their EU subsidies for a while and how nice it would be if they take the money but don't follow EU rules. Oh and a passing reference to funding for some of those deprived areas for which it is meant.

Not even 11am and I'm cross! I knew there was a reason I don't visit that site often.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 11:04 am

MsChin --- don't get cross, get even !

( It's not good for us either ....)

Off to market for the closing cheap offers xx

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 11:07 am

ephemerid wrote:
I also understand that crowd-funding has raised more than £50K for the 5 people who lost their case yesterday. People are good.

: 14022136_10209310296468469_8084350813289132481_n.jpg (30.02 KiB) Viewed 12280 times

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 11:20 am

JonnyT1234 wrote:
yahyah wrote:My CLP voted for Corbyn too.

Can't read the attached documents to find out more, from the CLP email I got this morning, as I don't have Office with my new laptop.
I'm assuming you're on a Windows laptop: if you don't mind using Open Source Software, try OpenOffice (http://www.openoffice.org/).

It's imperfect but generally fine for opening simple Office documents, etc.

Edit: also free, obviously, otherwise you may as well pay for Office.

Or may possibly be better with LibreOffice,
(it's a 'fork' of OpenOffice, but has more developers, runs better & should be more compatible with Microsoft, though both are still developed & probably will do the job fine.)

https://www.libreoffice.org

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 11:21 am

ephemerid wrote:Tristram Hunt's CLP has declared for Corbyn, having voted for Cooper last time.
Current status is 85% of CLPs in total have voted, with Corbyn getting 66% of the vote.
That's 304 CLPs which have made nominations; 255 for Corbyn and 45 for Smith.
Last time he had 49% of the votes, so it's looking good for him so far.

The Martin Rowson cartoon is very good today.

41 Labour party members in the Stoke-on-Trent Central constituency voted for Corbyn last night.
4 Labour party members in the Stoke-on-Trent Central constituency voted for Smith last night.
I didn't participate in the drama and given the numbers above, most aren't either.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 11:21 am

Happy Birthday Fidel !

90 Today. Hope you have a 'Castronomical' day ! You old commie you

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 11:29 am

MsChin wrote:
yahyah wrote:
ephemerid wrote:Our Olympic cyclists are just amazing. Well done, all!

Tristram Hunt's CLP has declared for Corbyn, having voted for Cooper last time.
Current status is 85% of CLPs in total have voted, with Corbyn getting 66% of the vote.
That's 304 CLPs which have made nominations; 255 for Corbyn and 45 for Smith.
Last time he had 49% of the votes, so it's looking good for him so far.

The Martin Rowson cartoon is very good today.
Has anyone totted up the total number of nomination votes does anyone know ?
Just wondering how they look set against the total number of Labour members eligible to vote ?
Realise the latter is a case of constantly moving goal posts depending on the latest court ruling.
Nominations for JC so far are 255, with those for OS at 49. So that's 304 CLPs out of about 650.
There's a Twitter a/c which is collating & mapping results as they come in - @CLPNominations. If you compare their earlier maps with one showing constituencies by political party, most of the early nominations were in Tory areas. Two of the Sheffield constituencies (Brightside & Hillsborough and Heeley) nominated JC last night; SE Sheffield constituency isn't having a nomination meeting cos there's a local by election campaign on and we still have to fend off UKIP round here. There's not much interest in nominating anyone from members.

(my bold)

Correct. Certainly not based on numbers I've seen. How many registered voters are turning out in these CLPs to nominate Corbyn or Smith? How many are on the electoral register? It's possible to be a Labour party member and not be registered to vote in elections. Does everyone understand that?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 11:32 am

Morning all.

Exclusive: new grammar schools plan 'unlikely' to go nationwide

https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/br ... nationwide

Plans being developed by the government to allow the creation of more grammar schools will not amount to a return to a nationwide system of selective education, TES understands.

The proposals are expected to be modest in scale, with a strict focus on providing for “hardworking” middle-income families.

Downing Street has not denied reports that the new prime minister, Theresa May, is planning to overturn the ban on new grammar schools as part of her social mobility agenda.

An announcement is not expected until October at the earliest but details of what is being considered are already leaking out.

A well-placed Whitehall source told TES it is likely that the government will introduce about 20 new grammar schools, targeted in a handful of “typical working-class areas”, such as on the outskirts of Birmingham and other provincial cities.

“It is unlikely they will try and bring in thousands of grammar schools,” the source said. “Instead it will be a handful here and there, in normal working-class areas.”

1. Sponsored by? They have enough trouble trying to get sponsors for academies right now. I imagine they'll try and persuade existing grammars that are now academies to sponsor a new grammar.

2. Need for places? What happens if the people in the local area say "Yes we badly need a new school...but we don't want a grammar?". And what if there is over-capacity on the area already?

3. Unless they try for the "this is an annexe even though the existing school is miles away" it'll need legislation. Not easy since there are Tories that are dead against this.

One of the tweets I saw said that short-term renting to get a place is probably very likely.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 11:36 am

MsChin wrote:There's an interesting long piece at (yuck) Conservative Home about New Towns, covering the history & demography which makes them fertile territory for Tories hunting votes. Bracknell is one of those New Towns so of interest to OhSo, I'm sure.

There's another article over there about how brilliant it is that farmers will keep their EU subsidies for a while and how nice it would be if they take the money but don't follow EU rules. Oh and a passing reference to funding for some of those deprived areas for which it is meant.

Not even 11am and I'm cross! I knew there was a reason I don't visit that site often.

I feel the same.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 11:39 am

Tories do anything they like while Labour jerks off over symbolic acts of whatever failing to arrange a functional opposition shadow cabinet.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 11:41 am

Good-morning, everyone.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 12:00 pm

The blogger Phil BC has an interesting account of last night's Stoke Central meeting.

From that and reports from elsewhere I have seen, it seems that when even Smith supporters are a small minority they are treated respectfully by the dissenting majority. Generally no booing, no heckling, no demands to "go and join the Tories".

Just mentioning this because you would never guess that from much of the MSM coverage of Labour currently

thatchersorphan · Post by **thatchersorphan** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 12:15 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... d-projects" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Guardian on Hammonds EU funding

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 12:28 pm

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Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 12:29 pm

thatchersorphan wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... d-projects Guardian on Hammonds EU funding

This is a good thing and credit where it's due.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 12:30 pm

Maybe yahyah should have stuck around in her CLP a bit longer to provide a dissenting voice at this week's meeting?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 12:34 pm

We welcome Phillip Hammond’s decision to agree with Labour’s calls for EU structural funds to be protected - John McDonnell

Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell said, responding to Philip Hammond’s guarantee of Government funding for projects backed by the EU:

“ We welcome Phillip Hammond’s decision to agree with Labour’s calls for EU structural funds to be protected post-Brexit. This will help to give some reassurance to communities and businesses right the way across the UK”.

“However, we also want to urgently hear the Chancellor speak up on the importance of keeping Britain’s membership of the European Investment Bank as we have set out in Labour’s five red lines for negotiations.”

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 12:37 pm

The moment a bomb disposal unit detonate mortar shell on a Welsh beach

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... e-11738772

You wouldn't think these WW2 bombs would still be active after all this time.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 12:39 pm

A tasty alternative ?

Or is it a subliminal message telling me he is going to be toast ?

: s-l400.jpg (52.79 KiB) Viewed 12129 times

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 12:42 pm

My word there are some poorly informed people on Twitter!

So they really thought that all the money we send to Brussels would just be a saving, that we gained no financial benefit from the EU at all?

At least Hammond has got this. There is a clear Tory logic to we'll just invest these funds ourselves.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 12:44 pm

And interesting that Hammond has chosen to speak of this investment as a good, something Osborne couldn't / wouldn't do.

Clearly someone has finally realised that the confidence fairy needs attention!

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 12:52 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Maybe yahyah should have stuck around in her CLP a bit longer to provide a dissenting voice at this week's meeting?

So far as I know, yahyah is still a member (just in case you're thinking that she did actually actually resign).

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 12:55 pm

Windsor CLP just nominated Jeremy Corbyn..

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 12:59 pm

Anatoly@

I'm not particularly pro-Smith, particularly after the way the challenge came about.
I certainly did not start out with particularly favourable feelings about him.
A few weeks ago I was still more minded that Corbyn should be given longer to sort his act out.

Just feel someone has to try and present a fair, non sweary or abusive, view of Smith, as Paul Flynn and senior Labour people including Corbyn call for. Anyone who knows him from Welsh politics knows he isn't a Tory, red or any other colour. But, the mob attitude seems to prevail unfortunately.

Not sure what our local branch membership is now, but only about 10% of what it probably is now bothered to vote for nomination. People shouldn't be too certain of Corbyn walking it.
It could be like the Scottish Indy ref, a lot of people who voted Remain kept their views to themselves to avoid getting a pasting.

After actually sending the second letter I had a pang of regret, phoned to see if my last direct debit payment before I cancelled it still meant we'd get ballot papers.

The hard worked young man at Labour talked me round and re-instated the direct debit.
I hope when someone finally got to our letter they didn't do what we asked and deleted our membership !
The young man at Labour was very patient, he said 'ring any time' and if I cancelled the direct debit again in a fit of frustration it could be righted again very quickly. He said lots of people were feeling similar, a lot of fed up Labour people from all parts of the party.

So, hopefully, we'll still have a vote

Will be watching what goes on, and choose accordingly.
Hopefully there will be some semi-reliable polling on how the public view both candidates too.

It may all change by next week of course

Interesting times.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 1:06 pm

PorFavor wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Maybe yahyah should have stuck around in her CLP a bit longer to provide a dissenting voice at this week's meeting?
So far as I know, yahyah is still a member (just in case you're thinking that she did actually actually resign).

See my explanation above, if you can follow it PF.

We never posted the first letter, because of endless bad weather and bullocks in the field stopping a walk to the village post box.

Then, after getting fed up with the silly abuse Smith was getting I asked my husband to reprint the letter and we put on our wellies and walked to the village and posted it, and phoned the bank and deleted the direct debit. Thought if he won the situation of infighting would be just the same. No chance of compromise.
Felt very good at the time but then felt guilty. I helped create the mess, walking away doesn't help.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 1:08 pm

Though it is worth noting that, if anything, CLP nominations *under*stated the scale of JC's win last year. It may be different now but nobody can presume that.

Now that the details of the selectorate have finally been decided, a poll or two would certainly be interesting.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 1:08 pm

yahyah wrote:Anatoly@

I'm not particularly pro-Smith, particularly after the way the challenge came about.
I certainly did not start out with particularly favourable feelings about him.
A few weeks ago I was still more minded that Corbyn should be given longer to sort his act out.

Just feel someone has to try and present a fair, non sweary or abusive, view of Smith, as Paul Flynn and senior Labour people including Corbyn call for. Anyone who knows him from Welsh politics knows he isn't a Tory, red or any other colour. But, the mob attitude seems to prevail unfortunately.

Not sure what our local branch membership is now, but only about 10% of what it probably is now bothered to vote for nomination. People shouldn't be too certain of Corbyn walking it.
It could be like the Scottish Indy ref, a lot of people who voted Remain kept their views to themselves to avoid getting a pasting.

After actually sending the second letter I had a pang of regret, phoned to see if my last direct debit payment before I cancelled it still meant we'd get ballot papers.

The hard worked young man at Labour talked me round and re-instated the direct debit.
I hope when someone finally got to our letter they didn't do what we asked and deleted our membership !
The young man at Labour was very patient, he said 'ring any time' and if I cancelled the direct debit again in a fit of frustration it could be righted again very quickly. He said lots of people were feeling similar, a lot of fed up Labour people from all parts of the party.

So, hopefully, we'll still have a vote
Will be watching what goes on, and choose accordingly.
Hopefully there will be some semi-reliable polling on how the public view both candidates too.

It may all change by next week of course Interesting times.

LOL you may need your whole own separate court process to see whether you can vote yahyah

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 1:11 pm

If you need a good legal brief setting out your case yahyah , I will check my diary to see if I can squeeze you in.

I'll have my people talk to your people.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 1:15 pm

Hey, I hadn't thought of that Paul

Let's just say I am often undecided.

As Bertrand Russell said:
''I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong''
and
''In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and again to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted''

But what would he know ? He was just an expert in philosophy.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 1:16 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:If you need a good legal brief setting out your case yahyah , I will check my diary to see if I can squeeze you in.

I'll have my people talk to your people.

Will you take payment in homemade cakes Toby ?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 1:20 pm

Really, my word. Looking at Twitter, the Hammond announcement is starting to play really badly for him.

I guess this is the consequence of years of no magic money tree and the rest.

MsChin · Post by **MsChin** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 1:20 pm

citizenJA wrote:
MsChin wrote:
yahyah wrote: Has anyone totted up the total number of nomination votes does anyone know ?
Just wondering how they look set against the total number of Labour members eligible to vote ?
Realise the latter is a case of constantly moving goal posts depending on the latest court ruling.
Nominations for JC so far are 255, with those for OS at 49. So that's 304 CLPs out of about 650.
There's a Twitter a/c which is collating & mapping results as they come in - @CLPNominations. If you compare their earlier maps with one showing constituencies by political party, most of the early nominations were in Tory areas. Two of the Sheffield constituencies (Brightside & Hillsborough and Heeley) nominated JC last night; SE Sheffield constituency isn't having a nomination meeting cos there's a local by election campaign on and we still have to fend off UKIP round here. There's not much interest in nominating anyone from members.
(my bold)

Correct. Certainly not based on numbers I've seen. How many registered voters are turning out in these CLPs to nominate Corbyn or Smith? How many are on the electoral register? It's possible to be a Labour party member and not be registered to vote in elections. Does everyone understand that?

I think the average level of voters is 70, which is quite small for a CLP but numbers vary hugely from place to place. I was surprised that the total votes number in Bolsover were just over 40 (although less than a handful of those were for Smith IIRC) as I think there's more Labour councillors than that! I'm keeping an eye out for the local ones just out of interest.

Also, for Derbyshire dwellers, I see on Twitter that Corbyn is coming to the park in Matlock on the 16th.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 1:22 pm

What actually is the function of the nominations at this stage of the procedure ?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 1:28 pm

This is the post before the post before.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 13 Aug, 2016 1:28 pm

It's time to turn over