FlyTheNest

SpinningHugo wrote:NHS privatisation

The NHS suffered less than other areas of public spending in the last parliament because of the ringfence. If you were reliant on social care or disability benefits you really suffered. But Labour always focuses on the NHS because unlike say disability benefits, the vast majority of people make use of the NHS. One large area of the NHS that has always been private are GPs. This makes this an 'interesting' development

https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/tec ... atisation/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Having more than once had serious problems getting a GP appointment, and with a job that gives me little flexibility, I may be forced to use this.

I am also pretty sure that GP waiting times had an influence on the Brexit vote. People think they can't see their GPs because of pressure from immigrants.

Free at the point of use is what matters, not privatisation, and that is what is going.

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Almost politics.....

Well done Andy Murray for pointing out to the BBC that he isn't in fact the first person to win two olympic golds for tennis.

Unsurprisingly, both Serena and Venus Williams have achieved this.

StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

The Trots Nazi Stormtroopers Fan Club. Sounds like something from the Grant Shapps random press release generator.

Beckett tied herself in knots earlier I thought. Doesn't want an official split in the party but if Corbyn wins again indicates the best thing to do would be to take the real Labour Party from the fan club.

Those pesky CLPs. They should know their place.

A final thought, if say one of the Union leaders had referred to Labour supporters of Smith as Nazi stormtroopers how much condemnation would there be from the media and the PLP?

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

Dearie me, there's an awful lot of right wing screeching about Smith's comments about the NHS. Two comments:

1. Banging on about "But Labour did it more" are pointless since both are dead set against the "public sector reform"-ers that are closer to the Tories than they think Labour ought to be.

2. Given that they actually want more private provision in the NHS or even its break up surely the default position should be "So what? Bring it on!"

NB showing a graph that ends in 2013/4 is a bit irrelevant given that we're now in 2016...

Edit - typo oops!

ohsocynical wrote:Happy Birthday Kier Hardie. What happened?

Cp4rNJAWgAAvStL.jpg

Jane Aitchison ‏@JaneAitchison 3h3 hours ago

I wonder how many people ever joined Labour to support Margaret Becket?

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Morning All

Apparently, Margaret Beckett is trending

I understand that she said on Today 'We've had examples of people joining because of Jeremy..those arent members of Labour but members of a fan club'

This will be going down great in her own constituency, which nominated, yes, Corbyn

[I don't know how I misspelt nominated in my first effort but it autocorrected to nematode!]

Morning!

Yet from the carbon pollution we’ve already put into the atmosphere, we’re committed to 1.5–3°C warming over the coming decades and centuries, and we continue to pump out over 30 billion tons of carbon dioxide [into the atmosphere] every year.

danesclose wrote:Good afternoon all.
Very sad news about former footballer Dalian Atkinson dying after being tasered by police in Telford today

AnatolyKasparov wrote:

danesclose wrote:Good afternoon all.
Very sad news about former footballer Dalian Atkinson dying after being tasered by police in Telford today

Yes, fairly shocking.

Of course, he was the person of whom Karren Brady once (in)famously asked - "is he related to Ron"?

AnatolyKasparov wrote:

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Morning All

Apparently, Margaret Beckett is trending

I understand that she said on Today 'We've had examples of people joining because of Jeremy..those arent members of Labour but members of a fan club'

This will be going down great in her own constituency, which nominated, yes, Corbyn

[I don't know how I misspelt nominated in my first effort but it autocorrected to nematode!]

Morning!

So nobody joined "because of Blair" during Labour's previous membership surge?

And why is it only people like me on social media who ask questions like this, not our brilliantly objective and insightful BBC journalists??

citizenJA wrote:

AnatolyKasparov wrote:

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Morning All

Apparently, Margaret Beckett is trending

I understand that she said on Today 'We've had examples of people joining because of Jeremy..those arent members of Labour but members of a fan club'

This will be going down great in her own constituency, which nominated, yes, Corbyn

[I don't know how I misspelt nominated in my first effort but it autocorrected to nematode!]

Morning!

So nobody joined "because of Blair" during Labour's previous membership surge?

And why is it only people like me on social media who ask questions like this, not our brilliantly objective and insightful BBC journalists??

Corbyn has taken unprecedented action by not standing down upon receiving a huge lack of confidence motion from his
Parliamentary team. Corbyn declines to listen to his colleagues instead calls out, "I have a mandate from the people!"
declaring a hundred thousand some odd votes from Labour party members, supporters and affiliates legitimises his right to rule.

It's Corbyn having made this here a personality party. His support likened to a 'fan club' is therefore unsurprising.

Effectively administering two-hundred and thirty Members of Parliament forming HM Opposition requires skill and experience and
those led must have confidence in their leader. Corbyn needs more than a better PR team helping him effectively lead Labour MPs
if/when he wins a leadership challenge.

How many individual votes total has Corbyn received from constituency labour parties, please? It sounds a lot more wonderful divvying
up 650 constituency Labour parties from all over the UK between two men, using those numbers and percentages though, right?
Lobby the polling agencies currently polling Labour and Labour's leader in the sh**. Ask them to post the CLP's turnouts instead.

What in the hell does Corbyn think he's doing? How in the world is his game going to help Labour, people or the country?

frightful_oik wrote:

citizenJA wrote:

AnatolyKasparov wrote: So nobody joined "because of Blair" during Labour's previous membership surge?

And why is it only people like me on social media who ask questions like this, not our brilliantly objective and insightful BBC journalists??

Corbyn has taken unprecedented action by not standing down upon receiving a huge lack of confidence motion from his
Parliamentary team. Corbyn declines to listen to his colleagues instead calls out, "I have a mandate from the people!"
declaring a hundred thousand some odd votes from Labour party members, supporters and affiliates legitimises his right to rule.

It's Corbyn having made this here a personality party. His support likened to a 'fan club' is therefore unsurprising.

Effectively administering two-hundred and thirty Members of Parliament forming HM Opposition requires skill and experience and
those led must have confidence in their leader. Corbyn needs more than a better PR team helping him effectively lead Labour MPs
if/when he wins a leadership challenge.

How many individual votes total has Corbyn received from constituency labour parties, please? It sounds a lot more wonderful divvying
up 650 constituency Labour parties from all over the UK between two men, using those numbers and percentages though, right?
Lobby the polling agencies currently polling Labour and Labour's leader in the sh**. Ask them to post the CLP's turnouts instead.

What in the hell does Corbyn think he's doing? How in the world is his game going to help Labour, people or the country?

As I understand it, the members choose the leader and the PLP has no veto cja. JC has the mandate and the PLP should support him. Have I got anything wrong?

frightful_oik wrote:

citizenJA wrote:

AnatolyKasparov wrote: So nobody joined "because of Blair" during Labour's previous membership surge?

And why is it only people like me on social media who ask questions like this, not our brilliantly objective and insightful BBC journalists??

Corbyn has taken unprecedented action by not standing down upon receiving a huge lack of confidence motion from his
Parliamentary team. Corbyn declines to listen to his colleagues instead calls out, "I have a mandate from the people!"
declaring a hundred thousand some odd votes from Labour party members, supporters and affiliates legitimises his right to rule.

It's Corbyn having made this here a personality party. His support likened to a 'fan club' is therefore unsurprising.

Effectively administering two-hundred and thirty Members of Parliament forming HM Opposition requires skill and experience and
those led must have confidence in their leader. Corbyn needs more than a better PR team helping him effectively lead Labour MPs
if/when he wins a leadership challenge.

How many individual votes total has Corbyn received from constituency labour parties, please? It sounds a lot more wonderful divvying
up 650 constituency Labour parties from all over the UK between two men, using those numbers and percentages though, right?
Lobby the polling agencies currently polling Labour and Labour's leader in the sh**. Ask them to post the CLP's turnouts instead.

What in the hell does Corbyn think he's doing? How in the world is his game going to help Labour, people or the country?

As I understand it, the members choose the leader and the PLP has no veto cja. JC has the mandate and the PLP should support him. Have I got anything wrong?

AnatolyKasparov wrote: But whatever the result, people need to accept that things cannot continue as has been the case recently.

SpinningHugo wrote:

AnatolyKasparov wrote: But whatever the result, people need to accept that things cannot continue as has been the case recently.

I think you mean 'should not'.

In fact things will now be considerably worse than in the months after JC's last election. Now all the goodwill in the PLP is gone and it will be open warfare.

"Moderates/Evil Blairites" in marginals will split, unless Smith is sufficiently close to indicate that a challenge next year might succeed.

Everybody rallying round is never going to happen now, so why suggest that it will?

StephenDolan wrote:

SpinningHugo wrote:

AnatolyKasparov wrote: But whatever the result, people need to accept that things cannot continue as has been the case recently.

I think you mean 'should not'.

In fact things will now be considerably worse than in the months after JC's last election. Now all the goodwill in the PLP is gone and it will be open warfare.

"Moderates/Evil Blairites" in marginals will split, unless Smith is sufficiently close to indicate that a challenge next year might succeed.

Everybody rallying round is never going to happen now, so why suggest that it will?

Repeat until he's removed. Sod the membership, they know nothing.

StephenDolan wrote:

SpinningHugo wrote:

AnatolyKasparov wrote: But whatever the result, people need to accept that things cannot continue as has been the case recently.

I think you mean 'should not'.

In fact things will now be considerably worse than in the months after JC's last election. Now all the goodwill in the PLP is gone and it will be open warfare.

"Moderates/Evil Blairites" in marginals will split, unless Smith is sufficiently close to indicate that a challenge next year might succeed.

Everybody rallying round is never going to happen now, so why suggest that it will?

Repeat until he's removed. Sod the membership, they know nothing.

citizenJA wrote:I like to hike and walk well enough but there's no Olympic category for that.
I'm not one to watch or read about sport anyway.
May I get anyone a beverage?

SpinningHugo wrote:

StephenDolan wrote:

SpinningHugo wrote: I think you mean 'should not'.

In fact things will now be considerably worse than in the months after JC's last election. Now all the goodwill in the PLP is gone and it will be open warfare.

"Moderates/Evil Blairites" in marginals will split, unless Smith is sufficiently close to indicate that a challenge next year might succeed.

Everybody rallying round is never going to happen now, so why suggest that it will?

Repeat until he's removed. Sod the membership, they know nothing.

Well, I of course agree with Ed Miliband and not the majority of members, but my claim was about what *will* happen, not what *ought* to happen (which are quite different things).

danesclose wrote:

StephenDolan wrote:

SpinningHugo wrote: I think you mean 'should not'.

In fact things will now be considerably worse than in the months after JC's last election. Now all the goodwill in the PLP is gone and it will be open warfare.

"Moderates/Evil Blairites" in marginals will split, unless Smith is sufficiently close to indicate that a challenge next year might succeed.

Everybody rallying round is never going to happen now, so why suggest that it will?

Repeat until he's removed. Sod the membership, they know nothing.

Then come the next election they'll be expecting the same membership, whom they hold in complete contempt, to spend money many can ill afford, and time getting them re-elected.

Edited to add: To paraphrase Jim Royle "Democrats? My arse"

AnatolyKasparov wrote:The PLP needs to come more into line with the unions and membership, it really is as simple as that.

AnatolyKasparov wrote: I happen to think this can be achieved without many deselections, but that option should remain open (anybody who seriously denies this is saying that once elected as a Labour MP you have the right to do whatever you like without let or hindrance forever - do *you* believe this absurdity, SH?)

Sports Direct Workers To Get Back Pay For Minimum Wage Violations
Owner Mike Ashley could be fined up to £2 million for breaking the law on top of the £1 million Sports Direct will hand over to warehouse staff who earned less than minimum wage for years.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/simonneville/s ... .qmKQEJWEq

SpinningHugo wrote:

AnatolyKasparov wrote:The PLP needs to come more into line with the unions and membership, it really is as simple as that.

If that is a claim about what ought to happen, fair enough. It won't as long as JC is leader. The idea that there will be *more* unity than in the months after the last victory is wholly implausible.

AnatolyKasparov wrote: I happen to think this can be achieved without many deselections, but that option should remain open (anybody who seriously denies this is saying that once elected as a Labour MP you have the right to do whatever you like without let or hindrance forever - do *you* believe this absurdity, SH?)

Fair enough, but if you are one of those who will be deselected and/or lose your seat, why not split? What have you got to lose?

citizenJA wrote:

AnatolyKasparov wrote:

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Morning All

Apparently, Margaret Beckett is trending

I understand that she said on Today 'We've had examples of people joining because of Jeremy..those arent members of Labour but members of a fan club'

This will be going down great in her own constituency, which nominated, yes, Corbyn

[I don't know how I misspelt nominated in my first effort but it autocorrected to nematode!]

Morning!

So nobody joined "because of Blair" during Labour's previous membership surge?

And why is it only people like me on social media who ask questions like this, not our brilliantly objective and insightful BBC journalists??

Corbyn has taken unprecedented action by not standing down upon receiving a huge lack of confidence motion from his
Parliamentary team. Corbyn declines to listen to his colleagues instead calls out, "I have a mandate from the people!"
declaring a hundred thousand some odd votes from Labour party members, supporters and affiliates legitimises his right to rule.

It's Corbyn having made this here a personality party. His support likened to a 'fan club' is therefore unsurprising.

Effectively administering two-hundred and thirty Members of Parliament forming HM Opposition requires skill and experience and
those led must have confidence in their leader. Corbyn needs more than a better PR team helping him effectively lead Labour MPs
if/when he wins a leadership challenge.

How many individual votes total has Corbyn received from constituency labour parties, please? It sounds a lot more wonderful divvying
up 650 constituency Labour parties from all over the UK between two men, using those numbers and percentages though, right?
Lobby the polling agencies currently polling Labour and Labour's leader in the sh**. Ask them to post the CLP's turnouts instead.

What in the hell does Corbyn think he's doing? How in the world is his game going to help Labour, people or the country?

JonnyT1234 wrote:It's all Jeremy Corbyn's fault(TM).