Friday 19th August 2016

Post by **refitman** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 7:11 am

Morning all.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 7:50 am

From last night:

froggy222 wrote:Morning all.
A frog2 proposition .
That anyone proposing that SpinningHugo should be terminally moderated / ie banned , should themselves be publically denounced .
There are more than a small ha

...? Oh no, Froggy's croaked!

Froggy, are you ok?
(Concerned because you finished mid sen

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 8:32 am

tinybgoat wrote:From last night:
froggy222 wrote:Morning all.
A frog2 proposition .
That anyone proposing that SpinningHugo should be terminally moderated / ie banned , should themselves be publically denounced .
There are more than a small ha
...? Oh no, Froggy's croaked!

Froggy, are you ok?
(Concerned because you finished mid sen

I hope Froggy's OK too - as someone who is less than impressed with SH's behaviour at times, I'd like to know how I should be publically denounced. Tar and feathers? Please don't put me in the stocks!
Note to Froggy - judging by the emails I've had from people (at least one of whom who has left for good) there is more than a little irritation about this. I'll call people out as and when I see fit and will prepare to be denounced.

In other news....

Pauline Cafferkey, a nurse who has risked her life helping people in the Ebola epidemic, and survived both the disease itself and often fatal sequelae of it, faces being struck off the NMC register because she is alleged to have subverted safety procedures.
It is my view, in light of what other nurses/medics have been saying, that it is Public Health England that is responsible for the poor administration of medical checks at airports etc. that has led to this.
PHE did not conduct the checks itself - it asked the staff returning from infected areas to check and record each others' body temperatures; despite being told that Ms.Cafferkey had a temperature above the norm, PHE cleared her to fly on to Glasgow.
Had it not done so, she could have been sent directly to the receiving hospital for further clinical investigations.

Public Health England is the replacement under the Lansley NHS reorganisation for the Health Protection Agency, a body set up in 2003 to provide an integrated service which aimed to protect the public from infectious diseases and environmental hazards.
The HPA coordinated responses to epidemics, provided emergency support to the NHS and other bodies in the event of particularly virulent strains of illness (eg. influenza), and supplied lab services and information from 4 regional centres.
PHE has taken over that role - plus the National Treatment Agency for substance misuse, major incident preparation, health screening for cancer etc., and various other bits and bobs as well as all the public health work previously done by primary care trusts (which were abolished by the H&SC Act).
PHE has been criticised by various professional bodies for sloppy research, information/communication problems, and a failure to adequately address mental health issues across its sphere of influence.
I would not be at all surprised if it turns out that far from Ms.Cafferkey being to blame for the mismanagement of her own symptoms, it was PHE who failed her - and as a result, out the health of others at risk.

Cameron wanted to give her, and her colleagues, a medal for their work. She refused it while this issue was hanging over her.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 8:34 am

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ng-scandal

Grant Shapps received a pay off after standing down as a minister at the height of the Conservative bullying scandal, it emerged on Thursday.
The former Conservative co-chairman was given £8,000 despite accepting responsibility amid claims he had failed to act on allegations of bullying following the death of party activist Elliott Johnson.
Shapps maintained his innocence in the affair but tendered his resignation on the grounds that “responsibility should rest somewhere”.
Generally, a lump sum, equivalent to three months of annual ministerial salary, is payable when a minister ceases to hold office.

I can see why Shapps receiving sum should be contentious, but article doesn't detail whether there is any circumstances / procedure whereby a departing minister doesn't receive a lump sum, it just links to gov. site with proposal to claw back sums if recipient returns to office within a short period.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 8:39 am

The Mirror finds Osborne being trained as the Manchurian Candidate

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 9:12 am

This is for tinyclanger -

There is an exhibition of all things clangerish at the V&A's Museum of Childhood.
You can see bits of it here with other clangery stuff on Twitter - #Clangers

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 9:19 am

Why should Hugo be banned ?

Isn't this supposed to be an open forum ? He's never sworn at anyone.
He is accused of chuntering on about the same stuff, but no more than others do about their own pet topics. Some of his links have been useful to me, and others, in getting to the truth behind some of the 'he said/she said' between the factions.

He's accused of having an agenda, but again, don't a lot of posters here ?
Maybe one of his agendas is not wanting another Tory government and a belief in his views of how to bring that about.

I agree with Froggy222 if we but knew what they were going to finish their post with

The outrage/anger seems to be directed at those who don't follow a certain line.

There are also messages and upset from people who feel they are demeaned for daring to think Corbyn isn't a good leader. Many do not come here now, or are worried about posting.
But because they are quieter, or don't like being told they are wrong for their opinions/Blairite/whatever, they stay silent.

I've seen it from both sides since being a turncoat, making the decision after assessing what's been going on, and the denial from the Corbyn camp that there aren't any problems apart from the behaviour of the PLP.

Just use the blocking posts system the site has.
I'm using it and it makes life much more pleasant. Life's too short to deal with angry folk.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 9:24 am

Blimey, that Osborne thing is down right weird.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 9:25 am

Ephie - not stocks. or tarring and feathering, how about being made to eat chocolate cake ?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 9:36 am

yahyah wrote:Ephie - not stocks. or tarring and feathering, how about being made to eat chocolate cake ?

Matilda style? Could be fun!

Morning all.

That Jack Dromey clip doing the rounds is hilarious. Not sure I subscribe to the Janus labelling, but the timing is exquisite

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 10:33 am

yahyah wrote:Ephie - not stocks. or tarring and feathering, how about being made to eat chocolate cake ?

I like cake. Far too much.

Re, your other post - I have never ever said that I want anyone banned from here, although I am glad that the likes of Rustihappochick aren't around any more.
What I object to, and will call it as I see it any time whoever does it, is deliberate provocation/hijacking of threads/flaming etc. which annoys me and others.

If you have cake, gimme some.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 10:34 am

yahyah wrote:Blimey, that Osborne thing is down right weird.

Correction, yahyah - that thing Osborne is downright weird.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 10:59 am

http://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/pi ... ain-twice/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PIP computer system crashes again… twice

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 11:01 am

For a man who has a reputation of missing targets, I wouldn't like to be the vicinity of Gideon while he is shooting his machine gun

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 11:02 am

http://visual.ons.gov.uk/five-facts-about-housing/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Five facts about… housing

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 11:18 am

HindleA wrote:http://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/pi ... ain-twice/

PIP computer system crashes again… twice

From that report : "The Camlite software designed to deal specifically with PIP claims was “appallingly bad”.

With a name like that I'm not surprised. Was it designed by the back bencher, the member for Witney ?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 11:18 am

Warning effigy of a naked Trump

http://gothamist.com/2016/08/18/naked_d ... hp#photo-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NYC Parks stands firmly against any unpermitted erection in city parks, no matter how small.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 11:28 am

http://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/dr ... he-scheme/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Drop in Access to Work numbers shows DWP ‘is strangling the scheme’

Plus it was the supposed alternative for those having their PIP Mobility removed/reduced to maintain/attain employment.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 11:29 am

Who, exactly, has been calling for SH to be banned? Just asking........

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 11:30 am

More on Pauline Cafferkey....

She is charged with having "allowed an incorrect temperature to be recorded" and that she"intended to conceal from Public Health England that you had a temperature higher than 38deg.C". She is also alleged to have not told PHE staff that she had taken Paracetamol; the drug is widely used to reduce mild fevers, so the inference is that she used it for that reason in an attempt to disguise a higher-than-normal temperature.

The volunteers who returned to the UK from Ebola-stricken areas had to complete a questionnaire and have their temperatures recorded by PHE staff. Despite knowing that a large contingent of people would be returning to the UK, PHE did not supply enough staff to screen all of them.
PHE apparently asked the returning volunteers to screen each other - Cafferky was found to have a raised temperature and had it re-taken 6 times before she was allowed to board a flight to Glasgow.
Paracetamol can reduce fever, but not to a large extent. Recent studies, including one last year in New Zealand, show that its' effects are minimal. It is not likely that someone with a developing hamorrhagic fever would be able to reduce their temperature from "above 38deg.C" to normal after a standard dose of Paracetamol; so even if she took it, it would not have made an appreciable difference. Evidently, whoever decided that she could travel dd so on the basis that (after 6 recordings) that she was safe to do so.

According to other volunteers, PHE was not sufficiently prepared for the screening of these people, nor did it follow the correct procedures. As a result, Cafferkey was allowed to travel - but now she faces a hearing at the NMC, and could be struck off, because someone reported her as not complying with procedures when it seems to me that she did, and it was PHE which didn't and agreed to allow her to travel.

Why is this important - especially here in the Daily Politics? I think that this is yet another example of the inefficiency of NHS England and yet another example of why the Lansley "reforms" were so wrong. Obviously, we can't know whether the HPA and local trusts would have done a better job in safeguarding public health on this particular occasion - but judging by what other volunteers in the (large) contingent of people involved have said, PHE fell well short of what we have a right to expect.

NHS England has missed - the 4-hour treatment target in A&E for several months; the discharge targets for over a year, with 5,000 people in acute beds because they cannot get care at home; the 62-day treatment for cancer target missed, across England, for more than a year.
This business with Ms.Cafferkey is symptomatic of so much of the NHS changes since 2010 - under-resourcing, under-staffing, inability to respond to circumstances, and an attitude of scapegoating. If Ms.Cafferkey cheated on her screening, it should have been picked up - and if she didn't, she has been treated shamefully.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 11:32 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Who, exactly, has been calling for SH to be banned? Just asking........

Someone who has left. I know this because he emailed me off piste. And no, I won't say who it is.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 11:38 am

http://www.lgo.org.uk/information-centr ... estigation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Haringey family re-housed thanks to Ombudsman investigation

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 11:39 am

ephemerid wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Who, exactly, has been calling for SH to be banned? Just asking........
Someone who has left. I know this because he emailed me off piste. And no, I won't say who it is.

No need for banning, just ignore them when they are being particularly trollish (and they aren't all the time, tbf)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 11:43 am

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1491700 ... funding-to" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Labour Press
Government needs to stop the cut in funding to supported housing providers, including homeless shelters - Debbie Abrahams

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 11:46 am

http://data.parliament.uk/writteneviden ... 28528.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Written evidence by JRF to homelessness inquiry

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 11:49 am

ephemerid wrote:
yahyah wrote:Ephie - not stocks. or tarring and feathering, how about being made to eat chocolate cake ?
I like cake. Far too much.

Re, your other post - I have never ever said that I want anyone banned from here, although I am glad that the likes of Rustihappochick aren't around any more.
What I object to, and will call it as I see it any time whoever does it, is deliberate provocation/hijacking of threads/flaming etc. which annoys me and others.

If you have cake, gimme some.

I didn't mean you had Ephie, but others have vociferously argued that Hugo shouldn't be here.
My reference was to Froggy's post.

Have some bara brith, fat free so it shouldn't inflame your gall bladder.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 11:52 am

Good morfternoon.

Received through the post today my first direct mailing from the Jeremy Corbyn campaign.

This extract fron the section entitled "Peace and Justice at the Heart of Foreign Policy" interested me -

"Honour our international treaty obligations on nuclear disarmament". I'm behind that aim but would it not be better if it said "Honour all our international treaty obligations - including those on nuclear disarmament" (or list any treaty obligations that are deemed not acceptable)?

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 11:52 am

HindleA wrote:http://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/pi ... ain-twice/

PIP computer system crashes again… twice

Thanks, A.

It's all pretty shocking. What really bothers me is the fact that the helpline is run by Serco - all new PIP claims are dealt with by Serco.

Back in 2012, Serco was in deep trouble in Cornwall. They ran the out-of-hours helpline and GP cover - they lied about meeting their targets, falsified records, kept patients waiting in telephone queues of 90 calls then lied about that too, took the on-call doctors off home visits to run clinics and helplines because they didn't have enough staff.....it was chaos.
The CQC inspected the service, found it wanting, and was appalled that nobody appeared to be monitoring Serco's performance. As with this PIP fiasco, it was a whistleblower working for Serco who raised the alarm - Serco's response was to audit all its staff's emails to see who had done the naughty deed. Bastards.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 11:55 am

yahyah wrote:
ephemerid wrote:
yahyah wrote:Ephie - not stocks. or tarring and feathering, how about being made to eat chocolate cake ?
I like cake. Far too much.

Re, your other post - I have never ever said that I want anyone banned from here, although I am glad that the likes of Rustihappochick aren't around any more.
What I object to, and will call it as I see it any time whoever does it, is deliberate provocation/hijacking of threads/flaming etc. which annoys me and others.

If you have cake, gimme some.

I didn't mean you had Ephie, but others have vociferously argued that Hugo shouldn't be here.
My reference was to Froggy's post.

Have some bara brith, fat free so it shouldn't inflame your gall bladder.

I luuurrrvvve bara brith.

Especially with lots of salty Welsh butter......which I can't have.....

Diolch. I'll dig in right now.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 12:43 pm

Good-morning, everyone.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 12:45 pm

Parliament's standards watchdog has begun an inquiry into pro-gambling Tory MPs.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mp-s- ... -ds7tfgqwn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can only read the gist of it with the paywall.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 12:49 pm

'Two Jobs' Nathan Gill, Welsh Ukip leader, is under police investigation for alleged abuse of EU expenses by using them for political campaigning.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/polit ... l-11769988" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 12:54 pm

Just in time for baked goods JA.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 1:00 pm

Anyone who thinks things have got nasty on FTN...nothing compared to the young Kippers.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/u ... _hp_ref=uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 1:14 pm

UK PUBLIC BORROWING FALLS
Breaking: Britain ran a surplus of £1bn in July, thanks to a pick-up in corporation tax receipts.
PwC: No sign of Brexit downturn yet....
PwC chief economist John Hawksworth has cast his expert eye over Britain’s public finances, and concluded that they’re not too shabby.
Government: UK ready for Brexit turbulence
The Chief Secretary to the Treasury, David Gauke, says today’s public finances show Britain is in good shape to handle the aftermath of the EU referendum vote.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/li ... iness-live" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wow! Phew, that's a relief! Tory government really do have it going on.
Everything is just fine. Just fine. Right?
Look! The Donald says he's sorry...

“Sometimes in the heat of debate and speaking on a multitude of issues, you don’t choose the right words or you say the wrong thing,”
he told a rally in North Carolina on Thursday night. “I have done that. And, believe it or not, I regret it. I do regret it. Particularly
where it may have caused personal pain.”

Donald Trump
18 August 2016

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ying-sorry" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

everyone just believe and no one gets hurt

http://www.definition-of.com/being+played

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 1:16 pm

yahyah wrote:Just in time for baked goods JA.

hallelujah

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 1:39 pm

yahyah wrote:Why should Hugo be banned ?

Why bother is a more pertinent question. Given his form at the graun he'd just be back as Trotsky's Crusty Toenail or something within a few hours anyway.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 1:41 pm

Anecdotal and just a snap-shot, but:

I've spoken to quite a few people, young and older, re the Labour Party leadership contest. Whilst none of them are wildly enthused by Owen Smith they're all wildly unenthusiastic about Jeremy Corbyn (some have always felt that way). But no-one I know who was previously enthused by Jeremy Corbyn (and who also voted for him as leader) wishes him to continue in the job.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 1:45 pm

PorFavor wrote:Anecdotal and just a snap-shot, but:

I've spoken to quite a few people, young and older, re the Labour Party leadership contest. Whilst none of them are wildly enthused by Owen Smith they're all wildly unenthusiastic about Jeremy Corbyn (some have always felt that way). But no-one I know who was previously enthused by Jeremy Corbyn (and who also voted for him as leader) wishes him to continue in the job.

I'm now wildly unenthusiastic about Labour, full stop. Doesn't matter who is leading them. Sincerely doubt that I am alone in that.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 1:46 pm

Oh - and it's really pissing it down here. Strong winds coming tomorrow, supposedly.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 1:51 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:
yahyah wrote:Why should Hugo be banned ?
Why bother is a more pertinent question. Given his form at the graun he'd just be back as Trotsky's Crusty Toenail or something within a few hours anyway.

LegalBeagle? Judge Dreadful? CircumbendibusAeternum?

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 1:52 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:... just ignore them when they are being particularly trollish (and they aren't all the time, tbf)

Devil's advocate: while it's easy enough to control your own posting, you have no say in how other people react. So, while you may be able to ignore the annoying prodding for a time, others' thresholds can be much lower.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 2:01 pm

PorFavor wrote:Anecdotal and just a snap-shot, but:

I've spoken to quite a few people, young and older, re the Labour Party leadership contest. Whilst none of them are wildly enthused by Owen Smith they're all wildly unenthusiastic about Jeremy Corbyn (some have always felt that way). But no-one I know who was previously enthused by Jeremy Corbyn (and who also voted for him as leader) wishes him to continue in the job.

Interesting.....

Our lovely PPC at the GE, Matthew Dorrance, is supporting Smith. Who, to his credit, came to Brecon&Radnor to campaign for Matthew - a seat that he was very unlikely to win.

I don't know about the main B&R CLP, but I do know that the Hay group is keen on Corbyn. There were 10 of us altogether when I was involved last year - but there are more than 20 now. Doesn't sound much, but for such a small place it's not bad going.

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 2:02 pm

HindleA wrote:http://www.lgo.org.uk/information-centr ... estigation

Haringey family re-housed thanks to Ombudsman investigation

I have lost some faith in the LGO.

In response to LGO enquiries, the council said the average time to be rehoused for people in the top two priority bands was more than seven years. The LGO believes this information to be misleading and wrong – the average wait time in the council’s area for a two bedroom property for people in the top priority banding was 15 months.

Both of these figures are correct, they are measuring different things.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 2:33 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:... just ignore them when they are being particularly trollish (and they aren't all the time, tbf)
Devil's advocate: while it's easy enough to control your own posting, you have no say in how other ,people react. So, while you may be able to ignore the annoying prodding for a time, others' thresholds can be much lower.

Spinning Hugo,
Devil's advocate.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 3:22 pm

PorFavor wrote:Anecdotal and just a snap-shot, but:

I've spoken to quite a few people, young and older, re the Labour Party leadership contest. Whilst none of them are wildly enthused by Owen Smith they're all wildly unenthusiastic about Jeremy Corbyn (some have always felt that way). But no-one I know who was previously enthused by Jeremy Corbyn (and who also voted for him as leader) wishes him to continue in the job.

I'm not particularly enthusiastic about Corbyn or Owen, but appreciate their policies, even if there's little difference between them.
My main complaint with Labour leadership is that there's a perceived lack of talent available.
Everyone seems to be looking for a perfect candidate, while all possibilities get variously written off as too right, too left, too Jewish, not Jewish enough, too closely related to Ed balls etc.
I'd have been reasonably happy with most of the candidates last time round , in as far as they should all have theoretically been capable of leading (some of them even Labour:)).
Now not convinced anyone appealing to general membership will then have plp support do the Job successfully, and haven't seen anything from Smith or Corbyn, suggesting they acknowledge this as a problem or have a solution

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 3:45 pm

Syria air strikes: Mhairi Black vows 'never to forget the noise of MPs cheering bombs'

The 21-year-old SNP MP said it was a 'very dark night in Parliament' as MPs overwhelmingly backed David Cameron's plans to bomb Isis in Syria
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... urn false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 3:53 pm

Mr Hilary Benn should be SO proud... Here is some of the 'Handiwork' that he endorsed with his..'Tory Pleasing' speech about bombing,.. Remember the CHEERS???,... Remember the APPLAUSE???,..

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 4:47 pm

Labour Party members were kicked out for 'bullying' Simon Danczuk - now they want their case reopened after he was arrested in Spain

The 'Rochdale Seven' were disciplined over 'nonsense' claims that the MP had hit his then girlfriend

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... ar_twitter

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 19 Aug, 2016 4:51 pm

Gerri ‏@Archangelolill 9m9 minutes ago

If little Aleppo boy grows up & becomes 'terrorist' we'll not care what he endured as child. We've forgotten already