Weekend Edition - Sat.20th.August/Sun.21st.August 2016

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 8:59 am

Morning all.

BBC News website -
47% of all households claiming Housing Benefit are in work; the amount of HB paid to private landlords is £9.3 Billion.
In 2006, £4.6 Billion was spent on HB for private rentals - the figure has more than doubled in ten years.

This comes from a National Housing Federation study; it says that the proportion of HB claimants renting in the private sector has increased by 42% since 2008; and that had all those people been council/social housing tenants, £1,000 per household per year could have been saved - which amounts to an average of £2.2 Billion annually.

According to the ONS, the total spend on all social security payments (excluding tax credits, but including pensions) was £258 Billion.
£27 Billion of that was Housing Benefit; ie. 10% of the total spend. That's 9 times more than was spent on unemployment benefit.

£2.2 Billion a year could be saved if private rents came into line with social rents - that's 12,000 new houses a year.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 9:03 am

How many times does a thread get opened at the same time!

Good morning everyone

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... oject-fear" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This article is what I am concerned about - the threat of Brexit has not been so acutely bad that an actual Brexit can be sold as being the same

The chronic risk is still there but is it enough to turn people against the referendum result?

My assumption is not and the chronic weakening of Britain from this decision will not prevent us leaving or suffering in the medium/long term

'Project Fear' has not only worked against us in the referendum campaign, it is also working against us in the aftermath....thanks Dave and Gideon for that

As with virtually all of the reasons for Brexit, I think it can be laid at the door of the Tories and the decisions made in the campaign.....the people involved though are busy pointing in other directions and it is being swallowed by some people who shoul know better

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 9:53 am

I'm a DWP call handler and have no time to care about your disability claim.

https://www.theguardian.com/public-lead ... nefits-dwp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 10:16 am

Morning, howsilly.

Elliott rightly gives caveats - but I think he under-estimates what the longer-term impact could be. We have no idea what might happen - plus, of course, we as yet have no idea what the actual Brexit plan is, do we?

The 1.4% rise in retail sales in July sits alongside an increase in consumer borrowing of about 6% and a fall in savings of about 8% (ONS). With people on holidays etc. (the figures include motor fuel and holidays) it's not a surprise.
Unemployment always falls a bit in the summer, because students get holiday jobs; the claimant count is never a reliable indicator, especially with the massive increase in sanctions, and seasonal suspensions if claimants take a holiday.

Project Fear was aimed at scaring the bejaysus out of people so that they'd vote the way Cameron required them to - they didn't, and so far the economy has rallied a bit after the initial shocks.
But - we have no inkling of how the rest of the EU are planning to trade with us, how much it will cost in deals and tariffs, or how much we'll pay for the legal advisers and negotiators etc.

I think May and Hammond - with the help of Carney - are basically holding the fort for now; but at some point they will have to get on with it. The whole thing is pretty unpredictable, and since none of these very clever people spotted the crash in 2008, I'm disinclined to believe much of what they say now. The truth is they don't know any more than we do. We are in uncharted territory.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 10:18 am

Good morfternoon.

During all the media palaver about the Olympics, I've been itching to broach this subject. It seemed to have been conveniently forgotten.

Police killings of favela residents continue as Games go on in Rio

85,000-member security force holds poor communities in state of semi-siege not ‘to protect us, but to segregate us’ from Olympic visitors, neighbours say (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... egregation

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 10:32 am

ephemerid wrote:Morning, howsilly.

Elliott rightly gives caveats - but I think he under-estimates what the longer-term impact could be. We have no idea what might happen - plus, of course, we as yet have no idea what the actual Brexit plan is, do we?

The 1.4% rise in retail sales in July sits alongside an increase in consumer borrowing of about 6% and a fall in savings of about 8% (ONS). With people on holidays etc. (the figures include motor fuel and holidays) it's not a surprise.
Unemployment always falls a bit in the summer, because students get holiday jobs; the claimant count is never a reliable indicator, especially with the massive increase in sanctions, and seasonal suspensions if claimants take a holiday.

Project Fear was aimed at scaring the bejaysus out of people so that they'd vote the way Cameron required them to - they didn't, and so far the economy has rallied a bit after the initial shocks.
But - we have no inkling of how the rest of the EU are planning to trade with us, how much it will cost in deals and tariffs, or how much we'll pay for the legal advisers and negotiators etc.

I think May and Hammond - with the help of Carney - are basically holding the fort for now; but at some point they will have to get on with it. The whole thing is pretty unpredictable, and since none of these very clever people spotted the crash in 2008, I'm disinclined to believe much of what they say now. The truth is they don't know any more than we do. We are in uncharted territory.

Good morning to you too ephe

I cannot disagree with anything you said

I think I am coming at it more from the side that there is a lot of denial going on, and in those circumstances the lack of realisation of Project Fear has played into the hands of those who said 'it won't be so bad'!

The long term chronic issues will arise but will they arrive quickly enough for those who want to stop Brexit - I sincerely do not believe that to be the case!

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 10:43 am

Deleted.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 10:53 am

TobyLatimer wrote:I'm a DWP call handler and have no time to care about your disability claim.

https://www.theguardian.com/public-lead ... nefits-dwp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks, Toby.

I wonder if the person who wrote the article actually works for DWP or one of the outsourced companies like Serco? As we discussed here the other day, all new claims for PIP are made over the phone and it's Serco that operates the "service". I find it difficult to believe that DWP civil servants would have a time limit on calls, as they and their supervisors know that some cases will be complicated.

I'm not sure I have much sympathy for the person who wrote that article, whoever he/she works for. They took a job knowing that they'd be handling calls from ill people; I appreciate that they are working under difficult conditions re. performance etc. but surely they must have known that they'd be dealing with complicated situations under pressure - it's the nature of the job, however wrong that is.

I've phoned DWP fairly recently about ESA, and where they used to be able to tell you if a payment had been processed or suspended, they don't seem to be able to do that any more. Whenever I've called lately, I'm told I'll get a call back - which rarely happens.

As we found out from the mail handling business a few years ago (when we found out that forms like ESA50s and confidential medical notes were opened and sorted by Royal Mail before they got anywhere near a DWP office) I'm inclined to think that a lot of the phone lines we have to use are not staffed by DWP but by outsourced companies who are always working to targets.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 11:10 am

ephemerid wrote:
TobyLatimer wrote:I'm a DWP call handler and have no time to care about your disability claim.

https://www.theguardian.com/public-lead ... nefits-dwp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks, Toby.

I'm not sure I have much sympathy for the person who wrote that article, whoever he/she works for. They took a job knowing that they'd be handling calls from ill people; I appreciate that they are working under difficult conditions re. performance etc. but surely they must have known that they'd be dealing with complicated situations under pressure - it's the nature of the job, however wrong that is.

I always bear in mind that a lot of people (if they're signing on) don't get much choice over which jobs they take because their benefits will get stopped if a job is offered and not taken. There must be a lot of round pegs who are thus forced into, at best, square holes.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 11:27 am

PorFavor wrote:I always bear in mind that a lot of people (if they're signing on) don't get much choice over which jobs they take because their benefits will get stopped if a job is offered and not taken. There must be a lot of round pegs who are thus forced into, at best, square holes.

Also note that voluntarily leaving a job 'without good reason' means you aren't entitled to JSA. You need to be made redundant. So, once in, there are sometimes no ways out for you unless you have another job to walk straight into.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 11:30 am

Your JSA payments will be stopped for a period if you don’t do something your work coach or the Work Programme asks you to do. This is called being ‘sanctioned’. For example, if you:

don’t accept or keep to your agreement to look for work
don’t go to a Jobcentre Plus office when asked
turn down a job or training course
don’t apply for any jobs you’re told about
don’t take part in any interviews you’re invited to
don’t go to any training booked for you or take part in employment schemes
leave your last job or training without good reason or because of your behaviour

https://www.gov.uk/jobseekers-allowance ... nformation

fedup59 · Post by **fedup59** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 11:30 am

PorFavor wrote:
ephemerid wrote:
TobyLatimer wrote:I'm a DWP call handler and have no time to care about your disability claim.

https://www.theguardian.com/public-lead ... nefits-dwp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks, Toby.

I'm not sure I have much sympathy for the person who wrote that article, whoever he/she works for. They took a job knowing that they'd be handling calls from ill people; I appreciate that they are working under difficult conditions re. performance etc. but surely they must have known that they'd be dealing with complicated situations under pressure - it's the nature of the job, however wrong that is.
I always bear in mind that a lot of people (if they're signing on) don't get much choice over which jobs they take because their benefits will get stopped if a job is offered and not taken. There must be a lot of round pegs who are thus forced into, at best, square holes.

Morning all

I also think that this kind of work is basically enforced collusion for some. I find that scariest of all because it undermines our ability to relate as human beings and potentially puts a person's survival needs (e.g. to feed their children) up against their natural empathy in a soul destroying manner.

I don't think an occasional public service voice of experience in the guardIan is any way enough though. Where are the media stories based on investigating the whole rotten system from corporate profit, though government abrogation of responsibility to dehumanising practice and personal tragedies that real journalism should be writing about?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 11:32 am

Good-morning, everyone.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 11:34 am

"Real journalism" barely exists anymore.

Most hacks now divide their time between uncritically parroting press releases (from government/think tanks/corporations) and indulging in incestuous trivial gossip.

The final demise of the dead tree press really can't come soon enough.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 11:36 am

JonnyT1234 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:I always bear in mind that a lot of people (if they're signing on) don't get much choice over which jobs they take because their benefits will get stopped if a job is offered and not taken. There must be a lot of round pegs who are thus forced into, at best, square holes.
Also note that voluntarily leaving a job 'without good reason' means you aren't entitled to JSA. You need to be made redundant. So, once in, there are sometimes no ways out for you unless you have another job to walk straight into.

Scary as hell
Think about it - how does someone prove some of those valid, 'good reasons' for leaving jobs?

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 11:38 am

Worth saying also that, should the author of that article be dismissed because he went off-script, he would also no longer be eligible for JSA.

Enforced collusion? You bet it is.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 11:40 am

A good reason would be e.g. moving city or beyond a certain distance from your place of work, through (GP signed) ill health - though I bet this is significantly more difficult to get recognised these days, etc.

Just leaving because it was not what you thought it would be or it started to go against your ethics... No chance.

Edit: putting back an accidental deletion.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 11:41 am

Has the final total of eligible "affiliated" voters for Labour's leadership contest been announced yet?

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 11:47 am

Final comment on the topic: of course, if they are outsourced and working for G4S or Serco then they won't have any Union representation either (iirc).

Welcome to New Labour Britain. Welcome to Tory Britain.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 11:49 am

JonnyT1234 wrote:A good reason would be e.g. moving city or beyond a certain distance from your place of work, through (GP signed) ill health - though I bet this is significantly more difficult to get recognised these days, etc.

Just leaving because it was not what you thought it would be or it started to go against your ethics... No chance.

Edit: putting back an accidental deletion.

Exactly what I mean - for example, an abusive boss cornering an employee alone and no CTV or other witness - any number of like incidents - there's no proof.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 11:50 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Has the final total of eligible "affiliated" voters for Labour's leadership contest been announced yet?

I haven't seen anything yet.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 11:51 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Most hacks now divide their time between uncritically parroting press releases (from government/think tanks/corporations) and indulging in incestuous trivial gossip.

Or making stuff up and then coming to the rescue a day later with "after we revealed x we saved it!"

Like that absurd story about the GB Olympics parade.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 12:04 pm

It's the:
Paper: Politician X does Y
Politician X: No I didn't
Paper: Politician X denies doing Y after Paper exposes him/her
cycle of news creation.

The type of news I despise in spades.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 12:21 pm

I probably meant "square" pegs in "round" holes. No matter - thanks for all your responses!

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 12:22 pm

: ScreenShot01545.jpg (72.75 KiB) Viewed 15026 times

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/201 ... -forecast/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 12:29 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Most hacks now divide their time between uncritically parroting press releases (from government/think tanks/corporations) and indulging in incestuous trivial gossip.

Or making stuff up and then coming to the rescue a day later with "after we revealed x we saved it!"

Like that absurd story about the GB Olympics parade.

I swear a lot of them just trawl Twitter.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 12:33 pm

The Government launched this scheme declaredly to help people save the large exchange deposit required to buy a home.
"But what unsuspecting first-time buyers are now horrified to discover is that under the scheme rules they cannot use the bonus as part of this deposit."

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/co ... uy-scandal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 1:17 pm

Janet Edwards ‏@Janiete 57m57 minutes ago

Great first victory for @andyburnhammp - Manchester to host main Olympics homecoming celebration. Well done Andy.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 1:27 pm

I am watching Olympic canoeing.

Those men have AWESOME shoulders.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 1:37 pm

Stephen Collins' latest cartoon nails it again. Lampooning both Brexiteer Gove and the BBC/Newsnight in one.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 1:45 pm

ephemerid wrote:I am watching Olympic canoeing.

Those men have AWESOME shoulders.

Stop dribbling !!!!

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 1:51 pm

ephemerid wrote:I am watching Olympic canoeing.

Those men have AWESOME shoulders.

Tut tut, isn't that "objectifying"?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 3:37 pm

R.I.P Brian Rix

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37142153" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 4:16 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:"Real journalism" barely exists anymore.

Most hacks now divide their time between uncritically parroting press releases (from government/think tanks/corporations) and indulging in incestuous trivial gossip.

The final demise of the dead tree press really can't come soon enough.

What will be used to line cat litter trays ?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 4:23 pm

I don't know how to link a Gif directly - but this is one cat who sees Trump for what he is

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **refitman** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 5:03 pm

yahyah wrote:I don't know how to link a Gif directly - but this is one cat who sees Trump for what he is

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I was going to point you to the "How to..." guide, but had a look myself, first. God knows how you link to that. I'm not sure it's actually a gif, probably a webm file (like the Graun now use for 'Gifs that Keep on Giving'). I can't even find a link to the original image/file/whatever.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 5:08 pm

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 5:10 pm

Graphics interchange format PF. A bitmap image format if that helps

Post by **refitman** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 5:19 pm

yahyah wrote:Graphics interchange format PF. A bitmap image format if that helps

[youtube]IRsPheErBj8[/youtube]
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **refitman** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 5:20 pm

PorFavor wrote:Gif?

Just don't ask how it's pronounced. That's a whole other can of worms.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 5:20 pm

Blame Wikipedia !

I don't actually know what it means.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 5:24 pm

refitman wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Gif?
Just don't ask how it's pronounced. That's a whole other can of worms.

Ha! So I found out when I just looked it up on Wikipedia. It must be called Cif by now, surely?

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 5:44 pm

OVER A 100 TORY MPS STILL WANT TO STOP BRITAIN LEAVING THE EU, SAYS KEN CLARKE IN NEW BOOK
https://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/08/ ... -new-book/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There's nothing to the article but I liked this btl, apart from the SNP bit. My bold.

MPs – the SNP as a block excepted – do indeed look totally gutless. What the crisis has revealed is that despite years of pontificating on being representatives not delegates, they have actually nothing to say on real-world issues. Most are there as a lucrative career in which the ‘game’ of politics is about their personal progress up power’s greasy pole; they have no skills, no insight and no political nous when it comes to the real world’s major challenges. They have been revealed for all to see as empty husks. Faced by a potentially insoluble ‘political’ situation – understood, as they do these matters, purely in terms of electoral survival and career advancement – they are mute and their leaders are either blame-shifting, vide May’s Cabinet appointments of Davis, Johnson and Fox, or deranged supporters of extreme right-wing slogans, same name checks again. I should imagine that Clarke, from an earlier and slightly less venal era, is heaving with disgust. Certainly we are.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 5:55 pm

: CqUTmTwWAAEACFf.jpg (39.55 KiB) Viewed 14710 times

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 7:03 pm

‘Bomber’ Benn challenged over continuing Syrian cataclysm

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/08/2 ... cataclysm/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 7:09 pm

The Best Olympic Commentary Ever

http://www.altdriver.com/lmao/the-best- ... tary-ever/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 7:17 pm

yahyah wrote:I don't know how to link a Gif directly - but this is one cat who sees Trump for what he is

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This ?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 7:24 pm

tinybgoat wrote:
yahyah wrote:I don't know how to link a Gif directly - but this is one cat who sees Trump for what he is

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This ?

I'll ask you because you're here (I think) -

Why do people have such enormous televisions?

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 7:33 pm

PorFavor wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:
yahyah wrote:I don't know how to link a Gif directly - but this is one cat who sees Trump for what he is

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This ?

I'll ask you because you're here (I think) -

Why do people have such enormous televisions?

Can't afford a big car?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 20 Aug, 2016 9:17 pm

CNN Breaking NewsVerified account
‏@cnnbrk

Older brother of Syrian boy in iconic image dies of injuries from airstrike on family home. http://cnn.it/2bbXMsT" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;