Monday 22nd August 2016

Post by **refitman** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 7:10 am

Morning all.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 7:58 am

Fascinating graphs here on the decline of the north

https://jamesjgleeson.wordpress.com/201 ... over-time/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 8:09 am

The key question on the Labour brand

http://www.cityam.com/247905/members-pr ... our-remain" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think the first more likely, but there is probably no realistic alternative to hoping the second is true.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 8:41 am

Many will like this

https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2016/ ... nhs-again/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The key problem is GPs.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 8:53 am

Good-morning, everyone.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 9:22 am

Morning all.

Douglas Carswell MP Verified account
‏@DouglasCarswell

Pundits have not bothered to familiarise themselves w/ details of the Brexit process and plan. Doesn't mean there isn't one

...which drew the inevitable responses.

Not quite sure how he'd know whether there was a plan or not given he's not in government.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 10:12 am

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/ ... nity-leave" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

New mothers are facing increasing discrimination when they take maternity leave including being made redundant and switched to zero-hours contracts.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 10:17 am

Like your new sig willow. Most apt.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 10:28 am

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... g-question" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The government does not know what it wants and is not yet equipped to ask for it. Britain and the EU, it is increasingly clear, are far more intimately enmeshed than the leave camp had claimed. For all the leavers’ assurances, extricating the UK from the bloc, negotiating new relationships with Europe and the rest of the world – and ensuring that Britain’s laws and practices adapt – is a gargantuan undertaking.

Slightly dry article, but a good summation, I thought, of where we're at re Brexit.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 10:46 am

Can we all be nice today, please?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 10:56 am

Willow904 wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... g-question

The government does not know what it wants and is not yet equipped to ask for it. Britain and the EU, it is increasingly clear, are far more intimately enmeshed than the leave camp had claimed. For all the leavers’ assurances, extricating the UK from the bloc, negotiating new relationships with Europe and the rest of the world – and ensuring that Britain’s laws and practices adapt – is a gargantuan undertaking.
Slightly dry article, but a good summation, I thought, of where we're at re Brexit.

From your linked artcle -

Former Ukip leader Nigel Farage has threatened to return to the fray if nothing happens soon and there are many within May’s own party and the broader leave camp who believe all Brexit requires is for Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty to be triggered and a short Act of Parliament to be passed.

Whether you're an "Inner" or an "Outer", the politicians prominent in the leave camp are childishly irresponsible and simplistic.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 10:57 am

frightful_oik wrote:Like your new sig willow. Most apt.

Cheers.

I had to look your poem quote up, as I wasn't familiar with it. The wiki entry was very interesting, especially the reference to Ghandi using it to inspire those involved in the campaign for a free India. Those of us on the left could certainly use a bit of inspiration right now.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 11:03 am

Shelley after Peterloo Willow... Although I expect you know that by now.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 12:25 pm

Human Rights Act will be scrapped in favour of British Bill of Rights, Liz Truss pledges

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08 ... -liz-trus/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Scroll to the poll at the end, depressing how many agree with scrapping Human Rights

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 12:32 pm

It's unbelievably stupid anyway. The Human Rights Act couldn't be more British if it tried: its founding roots are Magna Carta, ffs.

And people are stupid enough that if you just changed the name from Human Rights Act to British Rights Act, without changing a goddamned thing within it, they'd be overjoyed at how that was a brilliant example of 'taking back control'.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 12:42 pm

Ofcom received 17 complaints about Channel 4 opting to use Fatima Manji – who wears a hijab – to present news of July’s mass killings in Nice.

Complaints about Channel 4 News presenter wearing hijab rejected

I hope they're billing the odious oaf MacKenzie for the money that was wasted on this pointless witch hunt. He couldn't even be bothered to submit his own complaint.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 12:44 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Can we all be nice today, please?

I hope you don't mind me excluding MacKenzie from that request. For being nice to or about him would be impossible.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 12:49 pm

However then the 5-minute news item, which aired at 9pm, added: “I mean we are governed by a bunch of bureaucrats that don’t speak English in a funny place called the Hague, which makes no sense at all, and it tells Britain what to do, it takes British money, it doesn’t send much of if it back – it’s a very unfair one-way street when you begin to dig into it and the biggest thing of course is that all of this is all a disguise over the immigration issue.”

Fox News broke broadcasting rules with pro-Brexit views on EU referendum day

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 12:51 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Human Rights Act will be scrapped in favour of British Bill of Rights, Liz Truss pledges

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08 ... -liz-trus/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Scroll to the poll at the end, depressing how many agree with scrapping Human Rights

How many times has that "promise" been recycled now?

There are good reasons why we are no closer to actually achieving it than when Dave first announced it (with much fanfare) several years ago.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 12:54 pm

The Welsh Ukip infighting shows no sign of abating.
Nathan Gill's adherence to Mormonism causing ructions now, with Neil Hamilton looking to benefit.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/polit ... n-11780464" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 1:09 pm

Oh, and that Kezia "Third Place" Dudgale is supporting Smith is *not* news.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 1:13 pm

"History is written by the victors [and they also get to draw the maps]."

Interesting article in the Graun about cartography and its consequences, through the prism of the exclusion of Palestine from Google Maps.

Not on the map: cartographic omission from New England to Palestine

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 1:46 pm

Could plans for directly elected metro mayors be scrapped?

Reports Theresa May wants to scrap directly elected mayors to stop revival in Labour heartlands

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liv ... ar_twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 1:54 pm

Speaking of cartography, something of that nature that should scare the bejesus out of you:

Piecing together the Arctic’s sea ice history back to 1850

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 1:56 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Could plans for directly elected metro mayors be scrapped?

Reports Theresa May wants to scrap directly elected mayors to stop revival in Labour heartlands

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liv ... ar_twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Arf. That would make me laugh.

Burnham selling his soul, for nothing.

The clown prince of politics.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 2:01 pm

John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 10m10 minutes ago
Corbynites attack Dugdale for backing Smith, failing to reflect Scottish Lab members: but 61% (n=80) *wdn't vote* JC https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/c ... embers.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

I'm not very good with poll charts, is JR right that 61% in Scotland would not vote for JC ? or is he mixing it? I can see 60 don't think he is doing well, but how does that translate to 61% would vote against

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/c ... embers.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 2:04 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Could plans for directly elected metro mayors be scrapped?

Reports Theresa May wants to scrap directly elected mayors to stop revival in Labour heartlands

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liv ... ar_twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Arf. That would make me laugh.

Burnham selling his soul, for nothing.

The clown prince of politics.

Well it would be ironic but ....
"The newspaper said that while elections in Liverpool and Manchester are likely to go ahead, Mrs May is expected to let the next phase of devolution proceed without directly elected mayors."
(teach you to read the link! - lol ) (joke alert light flashing on my head)

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 2:10 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 10m10 minutes ago
Corbynites attack Dugdale for backing Smith, failing to reflect Scottish Lab members: but 61% (n=80) *wdn't vote* JC https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/c ... embers.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

I'm not very good with poll charts, is JR right that 61% in Scotland would not vote for JC ? or is he mixing it? I can see 60 don't think he is doing well, but how does that translate to 61% would vote against

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/c ... embers.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

When, if ever, is John Rentoul right about anything?

The sample size is less than 1,300 people with only 80 from Scotland. It's bollocks data in, bollocks data out as per usual.

Edit: plus it's from June.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 2:18 pm

Fwiw, see bottom table on p. 4

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 2:28 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:Fwiw, see bottom table on p. 4

P4? Oops only saw first page

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 2:43 pm

Speaking of John Rentoul - I'm just about to empty the cat litter tray.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 2:43 pm

Good morfternoon.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 4:25 pm

That'll teach me to be sociable. Seems everyone has decamped.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 4:28 pm

PorFavor wrote:That'll teach me to be sociable. Seems everyone has decamped.

Howdy
Just sat back down after hours of elsewhere
My tea is getting cold in the kitchen
hang on...
ten thousand things may occur preventing my sitting down again
it's a life of excitement, yeah

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 4:39 pm

Right.That's me done. I've just voted online (Labour Leadership Election).

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 4:46 pm

Okay, I made it back to the chair

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 4:50 pm

Well done, PorFavor!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 4:51 pm

Democracy in action, tea still hot, no major appliance breakdown, Internet access and flythenest

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 5:09 pm

Well done PF.

When did you get your email/letter ? Haven't had ours.
Don't tell me your name for obvious reasons, but is your surname in the early part of the alphabet ?
Mine is begins with H.

Hope my fit of pique and direct debit cancellation didn't cause me to be thrown off the list.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 5:13 pm

Maybe we should keep a list of things we all do agree on to whip out when people get fractious with each other.

John Rentoul, Dan Hodges, crap British weather, BBC political reporting, Murdoch, Nigel Farage, Neil Hamilton.
Cameron, Clegg, Osborne, remember them? Boris.
There must be more.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 5:17 pm

yahyah wrote:Well done PF.

When did you get your email/letter ? Haven't had ours.
Don't tell me your name for obvious reasons, but is your surname in the early part of the alphabet ?
Mine is begins with H.

Hope my fit of pique and direct debit cancellation didn't cause me to be thrown off the list.

I got mine, my name is in last half of alphabet

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 5:26 pm

Have just been out in the rain to check our postbox at the gate.
Nothing there.
No email either on checking.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 5:32 pm

PorFavor wrote:Right.That's me done. I've just voted online (Labour Leadership Election).

Is there an incentive?
If enough people vote early,
will they stop campaigning?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 5:36 pm

You sound hopeful there tinyb.

The whole process has been far to long, and there's still four flipping weeks until voting ends.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 5:49 pm

yahyah wrote:Have just been out in the rain to check our postbox at the gate.
Nothing there.
No email either on checking.

Mine came by email, no hard copy yet

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 5:52 pm

Right then, better start taking it seriously,
that's one week to decide whether to vote,
one week to narrow it down to a shortlist
a week to make my mind up,
3 days to change my mind,
1 day to change it back again.
1/2 hour to post, then 2 days of guilt ridden remorse.
Or I could make things really exciting & try to vote online, using Windows 10.
(- I suspect Windows 10 might be another unifying topic)

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 6:00 pm

Have just checked and they say the email codes should all have been sent out by the end of Wednesday 24th August.

And look on the bright side tinyb, whatever you decide someone will hate you for it.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 6:03 pm

yahyah wrote:Have just been out in the rain to check our postbox at the gate.
Nothing there.
No email either on checking.

I've got an email, saying I'll be getting an email.
(if that makes sense)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 6:10 pm

Politics, democracy, representation, political parties - it's difficult work - cooperating, negotiating, decision-making, effectively administering policies and consistent communication with all - does anyone know of any largely successful time other than during war and re-building? I'm not advocating war. War focuses' everyone's attention, resources and goals. Setting down fossil fuels and transitioning to sustainable energy production is a good global project. Who's with me?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 22 Aug, 2016 6:12 pm

@yahyah

Hello. No, nothing through the post as yet but my e-mail came earlier this afternoon. My surname begins with an "S". You do realise that now I've told you I'll have to have you de-commissioned in some way or another? State secrets and all that. Though I suppose if we keep it between ourselves it will be ok . . .

Edited to add -

My secret code thingummies came, via e-mail, a couple of weeks ago.