Tuesday 23rd August 2016

[refitman]

Morning all.

[yahyah]

Morning.

Mike Smithson's running a competition to predict the leadership result. Closes at 7pm Wednesday night.

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index. ... mpetition/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SpinningHugo]

Interesting quotes in this one

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/je ... om-8685583" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

When do the motions for conference need to be published?

[letsskiptotheleft]

While Labour is out of power and unelectable this goes on, May in her maiden speech promised one thing, she is doing quite another.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... SApp_Other" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[yahyah]

Just read last night's thread.
Now trying to get rid of a massive Rick Astley earworm.
It was dreadful in the 80s, time hasn't improved it.

[yahyah]

''... increase members' say in the creation of policy. He outlined bold plans to create a members' cabinet to advise MPs and the NEC on policy and political strategy...adding that the Labour conference ''must be sovereign again'' and should sign off general election manifestos.''

http://labourlist.org/2016/08/smith-pro ... ew-labour/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RogerOThornhill]

While Labour is out of power and unelectable this goes on, May in her maiden speech promised one thing, she is doing quite another.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... SApp_Other" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm off out for the day but I was going to post that and had it up on the screen ready.

As for development, our new secretary of state has called it “low priority”. All this is remarkable, as is the fact that Patel has brought along as one of her key aides Robert Oxley, formerly of the TaxPayers’ Alliance. As campaigns director for the pressure group, Oxley spent years vilifying government spending – with a special assault on development. The TPA provided the Mail on Sunday with a good chunk of its knocking copy for its campaign against aid – which made claims so ludicrous that government officials were forced to declare them as “simply incorrect”.

Think he might find govt officials slightly more exacting in the level of evidence required as opposed to the TPA.

[SpinningHugo]

http://labourlist.org/2016/08/smith-pro ... ew-labour/

A depressing set of quotes from Smith.

Look at the USA. Has giving political power to the base ("the members"- I know the GOP and Dems don't have members in the same way) improved politics? Has this change improved the GOP and politics more generally? Has it led to more consensus or more partisanship? Does it lead giving credence to Canary-style conspiracy theories, or not? Does it lead to damage to society as leaders are forced to attack "the system"? Does it improve the civility of discourse? Does it lead to radical new ideas, or the revival of bad but populist ones?

Successful parties are those that give their members little say (cf the Tories).

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0c2fc5b2-6630 ... z4I8WIQUaW" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ah well, I know Smith is trying to win, but even so. It would be nice if someone told the members the truth.

[SpinningHugo]

More on power to the members

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08 ... members-o/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Credible IMO, even if in the Torygraf.

[JonnyT1234]

From the article in New Statesman Hugo linked to last night. He's not even won yet and the right of the party is already stirring the shit against him. Corbyn or Smith, Labour is screwed while these fucking vipers in the nest remain:

In private, Labour MPs are increasingly critical of Owen Smith’s campaign. The former shadow work and pensions secretary, who entered parliament in 2010, was chosen as a “clean skin”, untainted by the Blair years and the Iraq War. But the Welshman, who has worked as a lobbyist for Pfizer, has struggled to reconcile his past positions, such as support for private-sector involvement in the National Health Service, with his left-wing, Corbyn-style policy platform: railway renationalisation, a ban on zero-hour contracts, a full “living wage” and a wealth tax on the top 1 per cent of earners.

“The view was that you needed to do a soft-left candidacy to see if that would work,” a former shadow cabinet minister said. “But Smith’s message appears to be: ‘I’m the same as him but I’m more competent ; I look better in a suit.’ Or it’s a warmed-up Ed Milibandism, which was rejected by the voters.”

[letsskiptotheleft]

To be straight I have no interest in getting people's backs up, with regards to the leadership election.

I find myself veering between anger, sadness, finding it all too incredulous and dark amusement at it all.

Milne brings out all those reactions, he has no place in Labour, he hasn't it's best interests at heart.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SpinningHugo]

To be straight I have no interest in getting people's backs up, with regards to the leadership election.

I find myself veering between anger, sadness, finding it all too incredulous and dark amusement at it all.

Milne brings out all those reactions, he has no place in Labour, he hasn't it's best interests at heart.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That is quite a common thing among the far left. They justify it by saying that the system is so broken that it is ok as a result if they send their own children to private schools (see also Abbott).

I find it repellent.

[yahyah]

I felt like you LetsSkip, a plague on all their houses, but for the sake of my own sanity I'm trying to be positive about at least one of the candidates.

[JonnyT1234]

I felt like you LetsSkip, a plague on all their houses, but for the sake of my own sanity I'm trying to be positive about at least one of the candidates.

It's impossible to be positive about either of them. It's still the same bunch of poisonous shitheads they'll each be left with when they win, undermining everything they do at every sodding opportunity the media and their vanity presents to them.

[SpinningHugo]

May have seen. Newnight report on lessons of the SDP. Hattersley at 7.25 is interesting

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[citizenJA]

Good-morning, everyone.

[citizenJA]

I felt like you LetsSkip, a plague on all their houses, but for the sake of my own sanity I'm trying to be positive about at least one of the candidates.

It's impossible to be positive about either of them. It's still the same bunch of poisonous shitheads they'll each be left with when they win, undermining everything they do at every sodding opportunity the media and their vanity presents to them.

Yes, that's likely. We'll make do and attempt improvement. I'm in earnest, I hear you. I'm not attempting to stifle your fair rendering of the situation. Feeling positive isn't realistic. We'll just have to get on with it, make the best of not good.

[PorFavor]

Good morfternoon.

David Hoare quits Ofsted after Isle of Wight 'inbreeding' remarks

Head of education watchdog to step down three weeks after describing island as poor ghetto where there has been inbreeding (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... to-remarks

[PorFavor]

Badger cull protesters change tactics in response to expansion

Demonstrators focus on driving up policing costs as anti-bovine TB programme expanded across south-west England (Guardian)

Come on rebeccariots2! We need to hear from you.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... -expansion

[AnatolyKasparov]

To be straight I have no interest in getting people's backs up, with regards to the leadership election.

I find myself veering between anger, sadness, finding it all too incredulous and dark amusement at it all.

Milne brings out all those reactions, he has no place in Labour, he hasn't it's best interests at heart.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Milne is an arsehole, and one of the best things Jez could do if he is re-elected is cut him loose.

But is he, even so, any worse than McTernan or Austin or Blenkinsop??

[AngryAsWell]

The Brexit surrender: Labour waves the white flag

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/08 ... white-flag" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fast coming to the conclusion I have no party to vote for - sigh

[citizenJA]

http://labourlist.org/2016/08/smith-pro ... ew-labour/

A depressing set of quotes from Smith.

Look at the USA. Has giving political power to the base ("the members"- I know the GOP and Dems don't have members in the same way) improved politics? Has this change improved the GOP and politics more generally? Has it led to more consensus or more partisanship? Does it lead giving credence to Canary-style conspiracy theories, or not? Does it lead to damage to society as leaders are forced to attack "the system"? Does it improve the civility of discourse? Does it lead to radical new ideas, or the revival of bad but populist ones?

Successful parties are those that give their members little say (cf the Tories).

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0c2fc5b2-6630 ... z4I8WIQUaW" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ah well, I know Smith is trying to win, but even so. It would be nice if someone told the members the truth.

Tory consolidation of control, particularly following the EU referendum result, was astonishing, I was aghast, stunned. It was successful. Tory government gets something done quicker but regular people aren't represented properly. Current Tory leadership are a cohesive few leading many detrimentally and it's successfully disastrous for people and country.

All the voices enfranchised have a right to be heard - Labour tries to manage this - it's messier, works for many rather than a few. It takes time, cooperative endeavour, greater likelihood of goals stalled. Human beings are first cooperative, however, we're not operating in a system cultivating this, we're struggling in one actively working to undermine community endeavour.

[SpinningHugo]

To be straight I have no interest in getting people's backs up, with regards to the leadership election.

I find myself veering between anger, sadness, finding it all too incredulous and dark amusement at it all.

Milne brings out all those reactions, he has no place in Labour, he hasn't it's best interests at heart.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Milne is an arsehole, and one of the best things Jez could do if he is re-elected is cut him loose.

But is he, even so, any worse than McTernan or Austin or Blenkinsop??

Are any of those such grotesque hypocrites?

None of them are apologists for Putin.

So no, Milne is far, far worse.

[AnatolyKasparov]

The Brexit surrender: Labour waves the white flag

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/08 ... white-flag" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fast coming to the conclusion I have no party to vote for - sigh

A piece big on spin and low on actual concrete evidence.

The bottom line is that, however much liberal journalists with nothing to lose personally fantasise about "the 48%" as a homogenous bloc, a significant number of Labour voters chose Brexit and the party cannot be seen to be going "against the will of the people" either.

Maybe certain Labour MPs should have tried harder to win people over prior to June 23?

(rather than hoping they could blame a leave vote on Corbyn, and use it as a pretext to force him out)

[SpinningHugo]

The Brexit surrender: Labour waves the white flag

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/08 ... white-flag" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fast coming to the conclusion I have no party to vote for - sigh

A piece big on spin and low on actual concrete evidence.

The bottom line is that, however much liberal journalists with nothing to lose personally fantasise about "the 48%" as a homogenous bloc, a significant number of Labour voters chose Brexit and the party cannot be seen to be going "against the will of the people" either.

Maybe certain Labour MPs should have tried harder to win people over prior to June 23?

(rather than hoping they could blame a leave vote on Corbyn, and use him as a pretext to force him out)

I think that is a ridiculous thing to say.

Which MPs do you think really wanted a Leave vote so as to use it as such a pretext?

Names?

I loathe Corbyn and want him gone, but like Labour MPs, I know that Brexit is far, far more important than that. It is petty by comparison.

[AnatolyKasparov]

And I personally agree with you on that. I remain unconvinced that was true of everybody, though.

[JonnyT1234]

For CJA's benefit:

How a War on Climate Change Could Restore Economic Growth in America - Xconomy

(I've only had a chance to skim read the first part, but thought the title and sentiment very fitting given your post yesterday)

[frightful_oik]

To be straight I have no interest in getting people's backs up, with regards to the leadership election.

I find myself veering between anger, sadness, finding it all too incredulous and dark amusement at it all.

Milne brings out all those reactions, he has no place in Labour, he hasn't it's best interests at heart.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Milne is an arsehole, and one of the best things Jez could do if he is re-elected is cut him loose.

But is he, even so, any worse than McTernan or Austin or Blenkinsop??

Are any of those such grotesque hypocrites?

None of them are apologists for Putin.

So no, Milne is far, far worse.

Erm they pretend they care about the Labour Party but undermine its democratically elected leader at every opportunity. I call that hypocrisy. What do you call it?

[citizenJA]

Badger cull protesters change tactics in response to expansion

Demonstrators focus on driving up policing costs as anti-bovine TB programme expanded across south-west England (Guardian)

Come on rebeccariots2! We need to hear from you.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... -expansion

Hear! Hear!

[SpinningHugo]

Milne is an arsehole, and one of the best things Jez could do if he is re-elected is cut him loose.

But is he, even so, any worse than McTernan or Austin or Blenkinsop??

Are any of those such grotesque hypocrites?

None of them are apologists for Putin.

So no, Milne is far, far worse.

Erm they pretend they care about the Labour Party but undermine its democratically elected leader at every opportunity. I call that hypocrisy. What do you call it?

I'd call it realism.

Try and put yourself in their shoes.

Assume you want Labour to win.

Assume you are completely certain that the longer Corbyn is leader, the further away Labour ever winning becomes.

What do you do?

There is an argument that their tactics are wrong. So, perhaps it would be better to be completely silent and let Corbyn fail without criticism, so that he owns the defeat and the Bennite left would have no excuses.

But, if you actually want to, say, help the disabled on benefits, it is a big ask to require the likes of McTernan to be quiet with just the hope of recovery after the 2020 defeat.

I know you don't share McTernan's assumptions about the prospects for Labour under Corbyn, but if you did I hope you can see he is not a hypocrite. From your perspective he is just misguided.

[frightful_oik]

Are any of those such grotesque hypocrites?

None of them are apologists for Putin.

So no, Milne is far, far worse.

Erm they pretend they care about the Labour Party but undermine its democratically elected leader at every opportunity. I call that hypocrisy. What do you call it?

I'd call it realism.

Try and put yourself in their shoes.

Assume you want Labour to win.

Assume you are completely certain that the longer Corbyn is leader, the further away Labour ever winning becomes.

What do you do?

There is an argument that their tactics are wrong. So, perhaps it would be better to be completely silent and let Corbyn fail without criticism, so that he owns the defeat and the Bennite left would have no excuses.

But, if you actually want to, say, help the disabled on benefits, it is a big ask to require the likes of McTernan to be quiet with just the hope of recovery after the 2020 defeat.

I know you don't share McTernan's assumptions about the prospects for Labour under Corbyn, but if you did I hope you can see he is not a hypocrite. From your perspective he is just misguided.

Nah, it's hypocrisy. They couldn't give a stuff about the Labour Party; they just want their own way. There's a few more I could add to that list as well. Call Corbyn unelectable when he's lost an election. And imagine how much better he'd have done if this lot would STFU. Or even, (I realise this is progressive radicalism at its worst), do their bloody jobs and fight the friggin' toryshite.

[SpinningHugo]

Nah, it's hypocrisy. They couldn't give a stuff about the Labour Party; they just want their own way. There's a few more I could add to that list as well. Call Corbyn unelectable when he's lost an election. And imagine how much better he'd have done if this lot would STFU. Or even, (I realise this is progressive radicalism at its worst), do their bloody jobs and fight the friggin' toryshite.

Now, you see I am less prepared to think the worst of people than you are. There is a perfectly rational explanation for McTernan's actions without having to resort to claims of bad faith or hypocrisy. People who are wrong (as i think those who support Corbyn are) aren't necessarily knaves. Thy just have a different view from you.

Personally, I doubt someone like McTernan has any impact at all.

Being a siren of the left who then sends their own children to private school (Milne, Abbott).

Not so much.

[tinybgoat]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jer ... 83666.html

Don't know if anyone read/linked to this at the time (by John Rentoul), but it seems to suggest that most Labour voters were already pro eu at the time,
markedly different to Brexit being Corbyns fault.

That assumption by Labour voters that Corbyn supports Britain's membership of the EU is what today's speech is all about. The poll is a vindication of Corbyn's decision to adjust his long-held Euroscepticism.

[citizenJA]

For CJA's benefit:

How a War on Climate Change Could Restore Economic Growth in America - Xconomy

(I've only had a chance to skim read the first part, but thought the title and sentiment very fitting given your post yesterday)

Many thanks - exactly what I meant on yesterday's thread. The quote below doesn't do justice to the detailed article. Just a snapshot.

"A truly global mobilization to defeat climate change wouldn’t wreck our economy or throw coal miners out of work.
Quite the contrary: Gearing up to stop global warming would provide a host of social and economic benefits, just
as World War II did."

- Bill McKibben

If there's resources and money for war, there's enough for the better use of us all.

[JonnyT1234]

If there's resources and money for war, there's enough for the better use of us all.

Instead we'll blow billions on a single weapon that it should be a war crime to even think about using, never mind loudly proclaiming that you'd do it without even thinking about it for one second.

Sigh.

I'm resigned to humanity doing nothing until it's much too late. It already is too late.

[frightful_oik]

Nah, it's hypocrisy. They couldn't give a stuff about the Labour Party; they just want their own way. There's a few more I could add to that list as well. Call Corbyn unelectable when he's lost an election. And imagine how much better he'd have done if this lot would STFU. Or even, (I realise this is progressive radicalism at its worst), do their bloody jobs and fight the friggin' toryshite.

Now, you see I am less prepared to think the worst of people than you are. There is a perfectly rational explanation for McTernan's actions without having to resort to claims of bad faith or hypocrisy. People who are wrong (as i think those who support Corbyn are) aren't necessarily knaves. Thy just have a different view from you.

Personally, I doubt someone like McTernan has any impact at all.

Being a siren of the left who then sends their own children to private school (Milne, Abbott).

Not so much.

I don't defend Milne, Abbott or indeed Corbyn. I am however utterly outraged by the activities of those on the right. They lost the last two elections and call Corbyn unelectable? You have to really bend reality to call that anything less than hypocrisy. You could make a respectable case for calling it something much worse of course.

[SpinningHugo]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jer ... 83666.html

Don't know if anyone read/linked to this at the time (by John Rentoul), but it seems to suggest that most Labour voters were already pro eu at the time,
markedly different to Brexit being Corbyns fault.

That assumption by Labour voters that Corbyn supports Britain's membership of the EU is what today's speech is all about. The poll is a vindication of Corbyn's decision to adjust his long-held Euroscepticism.

Most Tory voters were/are pro-Brexit.

Most Labour voters were/are pro-Remain.

Which is why Cameron was a hostage to Labour: he needed Labour to get out its voters.

now, even if Corbyn had campaigned vigorously (eg with as much vigor as he is now showing campaigning for the leadership) I doubt whether Remain would have won. The gap was too big.

But

1. I don't believe Corbyn really is for Remain. His actions on the morning after the referendum were, for me, sufficient proof (along with his decades of opposition to the EU prior to the leadership campaign of 2015). This was the cause of his inactivity.

2. there were most certainly those close to Corbyn who did their best to undermine the Remain campaign (one person we have already discussed today).

So, his actions made a contribution (even if they were not decisive).

Which is why we are now having a leadership contest, when the rebels would have tactically been better off waiting until next year,

[howsillyofme1]

Good afternoon

Milne is a barrier to harmony and should go after the leadership election if Corbyn goes on to win

How anyone who supports Labour (who says they do) have any truck with that Tory stooge McTernan....the man who criticises the party continually in that socialist bastion, The Daily Telegraph and who has helped to ensure Labour's electoral collapse in Scotland....is beyond me

As to Brexit, why this continual criticism of Labour?

Firstly, I have never blamed anyone in Labour for the Brexit defeat. This was Tory disaster. The referendum was a Tory policy, the terms where developed by the Tories and most of those who voted to Leave, with a party affiliation, were Tory

What annoy me though is that certain MPs, whose own seats voted heavily for Leave, continue to be ready to blame the Labour leadership

If an MPs seat voted Leave then they should be asking themselves why they could not locally persuade people to vote to Remain if they were that committed themselves? Why did the South Wales Valleys vote Leave in such big numbers? Why can Corbyn be blamed but not the local MP?

Surely it would be best to focus on the real culprits......most of them sitting in the Tory Party?

I saw Labour MPs clapping and saying nice things about the PM who engineered all this whilst at the same time blaming the Labour leadership - excuse me if I am very, very angry about that!

The reaction to the aftermath is very hard and I think it is too easy just to expect politicians to oppose the result of the referendum. The reaction now has to reflect the result, as we are in a 'phoney war' situation at the moment

The oppositions have to understand what the Government is planning to do and react to that. Labour politicians aping the LD and saying they are looking to ignore the result would be a mistake in my view

I do not think there is any benefit in Labour taking a lead on this but let the Tories deal with it and then react to that....at the moment Labour has too many people who haven't learnt when to shut up for the benefit of the Party and the country - from all sides

There seems to be a view the Opposition should act as some sort of Government and set out their policy position - with no election likely until 2020 and no clarity of what Brexit means to the people who will decide, then jumping the gun would be a folly

The Labour Party has lost a year of policy development, and their is no need to have set out policies until 2018-2019...Miliband did that

What would help though is Labour MPs stop running to the media every day to make some more outlandish claims and allowing the media to focus on that rather than the disaster that is the Tory Government

Oh, and just to say for those who expect rr2 to come back anytime soon, I just suggest you look at the hostility to anyone who had any sympathy for Brexit during the referendum campaign and even those of us who have suggested we have to deal with the result......

[JonnyT1234]

Of course Hugo. You are 100% right. It's exactly what happened. We're too stoopid to think for ourselves so we are eternally thankful that your massive ego is here to set us all straight. Again. Because we've not had you patronise us with this same tedious argument multiple times already.

It was all Jeremy Corbyn's fault. How could we have possibly forgotten.

[tinybgoat]

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/ar ... 7wrHzNw29Q

Some of us might not much care who is leader of the ailing Labour Party, and don’t support either the incumbent Jeremy Corbyn or his challenger Owen Smith. But maybe we should be more concerned about the way the Labour leadership contest is being used to help depoliticise UK political life.

Interesting article, not sure it helps much though.

[JonnyT1234]

Another for CJA. Very contentious area of study, which is more 'common sense' at present than theoretical certainty, but related to the theme where we can have both... War and climate disaster. Woot.

Climate-related disasters raise conflict risk, study says

Source research article in PNAS.

[howsillyofme1]

As to the 'electability' question - we have FPTP to thank for making Labour since 2001 look better than it was doing....Blair was not quite the transformative leader that his supporters pretend

The number of votes cast shows that actually the winners have been the disenfranchised, and the other parties

What do we do to get people get back voting for Labour - I suggest we need a radical reappraisal with regard to how the world of 2016 is not the one of 1996 - the conservatives in the Labour Party do not want to see that..........the radicals only have Corbyn, a rather poor option, but until someone more credible is around then he is what we have to go with

I do not see Smith as a radical, and that is why I will not vote for him. If he wins though, I will support him in implementing the radical policy framework he has campaigned on.....and face down the conservatives int he party.

http://www.may2015.com/featured/a-histo ... 12-graphs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AnatolyKasparov]

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/ar ... 7wrHzNw29Q

Some of us might not much care who is leader of the ailing Labour Party, and don’t support either the incumbent Jeremy Corbyn or his challenger Owen Smith. But maybe we should be more concerned about the way the Labour leadership contest is being used to help depoliticise UK political life.

Interesting article, not sure it helps much though.

Well, it repeats the highly debatable "Corbyn wants Article 50 invoked immediately" stuff - but it is better than a lot of Spiked output. Not that that is saying much

[JonnyT1234]

One final comment from me on the Hugo derailment de jour:

It wasn't Corbyn.
It wasn't Milne.
It wasn't Stephen Kinnock.
It wasn't Angela Eagle.
It wasn't Owen Smith.
It wasn't even Peter Bloody Mandelson or Alan Invisible Johnson

It was David Cameron. It was George Osborne. It was Boris Johnson. It was Michael Gove. It was Theresa May. They're the ones who cost us our membership of the EU in the referendum. It was their ineptitude, their duplicity, their silence that blew it. It was fuck all to do with Labour.

[howsillyofme1]

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/ar ... 7wrHzNw29Q

Some of us might not much care who is leader of the ailing Labour Party, and don’t support either the incumbent Jeremy Corbyn or his challenger Owen Smith. But maybe we should be more concerned about the way the Labour leadership contest is being used to help depoliticise UK political life.

Interesting article, not sure it helps much though.

Well, it repeats the highly debatable "Corbyn wants Article 50 invoked immediately" stuff - but it is better than a lot of Spiked output. Not that that is saying much

That A50 debate is a bit of a red herring and has been blown out of proportion

The person who initially say A50 should be invoked immediately was our dear, unlamented last PM so it can only be expected for the Leader of the Opposition to ask the PM to keep to his word.

The man, of course, was a coward (the first of many) and resigned so he did not have to do that

I think that resignation caught Corbyn on the hop (perhaps he still had a belief that our ex-PM was a man of his word) and so it became a focal point for the rebels in Labour - my assumption is they were always looking for an excuse so it didn't really matter what he said he was going to be jumped on and nothing I have seen has changed my mind on that

I have also laid out many times on here my opinion why the invocation of A50 should happen sooner rather than later......you can disagree with me on that

[JonnyT1234]

The last of the hot air from me for now...

The weird things farmers are doing to save the environment from flatulent cows

Worth a look just for the backpack-wielding cow photos:

In Argentina, some farmers are strapping backpacks onto cows, using the outerwear as a holding receptacle for the gas. According to the nation’s ministry of agribusiness, the backpacks are able to capture some of the nearly 300 liters of methane each cow emits per day, enough to produce the energy (Spanish) needed to run a refrigerator for a day.

[yahyah]

The last of the hot air from me for now...

The weird things farmers are doing to save the environment from flatulent cows

Worth a look just for the backpack-wielding cow photos:

In Argentina, some farmers are strapping backpacks onto cows, using the outerwear as a holding receptacle for the gas. According to the nation’s ministry of agribusiness, the backpacks are able to capture some of the nearly 300 liters of methane each cow emits per day, enough to produce the energy (Spanish) needed to run a refrigerator for a day.

We accidentally came across about thirty cattle of both sexes on our walk this morning.
They were hidden by a steep hill in the field.
When they all start moving quickly towards you, staring, and their nostrils flare, the last thing you worry about is how much they fart.

[yahyah]

and I'm not sure you'd get Welsh cows to wear pink.

[citizenJA]

Another for CJA. Very contentious area of study, which is more 'common sense' at present than theoretical certainty, but related to the theme where we can have both... War and climate disaster. Woot.

Climate-related disasters raise conflict risk, study says

Source research article in PNAS.

Yes, these articles highlight the shadow side of the light side I'd prefer.
The light is less violent, more cooperative and more fun for everyone.
The shadow is a violent, dystopia nightmare, making for some good and all horrific novels and films.

[SpinningHugo]

1. There was no way Article 50 was going to be invoked straightaway if you had any grasp at all of the issue. Blog plug (sorry) but I explained that here

https://spinninghugo.wordpress.com/2016 ... e-invoked/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2. "I think that resignation caught Corbyn on the hop"

It was obvious to all that if Cameron lost he'd have to resign. Electoral tactics before the referendum required him to lie about that. He didn't want to turn it into a referendum on him.

3. That there are other people to blame for a disaster doesn't mean that Corbyn shares no blame. That it would have happened anyway doesn't mean Corbyn has no responsibility (think of voting, does an individual Tory voter have no responsibility for this government?)

4. On BBC Radio 4 and on Sky News on the morning of 24 June Corbyn called for Article 50 to be invoked immediately. He has since withdrawn that call. This is simply a statement of fact.